Are we too hard on Guns?

[Jw224]

It depends on what you're talking about. If you're talking about the Stephen and Izzy situation then I'd say yes. It would be nice but I doubt it's really gonna happen and what we have now is great still. Then again if you're talking about Axl specifically, then I'd say no. They're all giving great performances up there and Axl is the one phoning it in most. He needs to get a grip and start learning how to sing his songs in a way that are proper for his current voice, not just  try to do vocals he clearly can't do anymore. It's a detriment to the whole performance when the lead singer is terrible. 

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I don't think anyone here wants to be negative about the band, but for whatever reason they are.

And let's be honest about the fact that it's fair to be critical. People can say ''be happy with what you got'' and ''I got more than what I expected from them'' as much as they want in this thread, but the truth is that it's not easy being a GnR fan. They aren't exactly the freaking Foo Fighters, or any other band that is drama free and that releases new music consistently and often communicates with their fanbase. And that's ok, that's their right, but then it's not abnormal for fans to express their disappointment on a forum like this. I'd agree with the thread topic if this was Bon Jovi or some band like that, but GnR has enough flaws for us to bitch about. And not everyone is the ''glass is half full'' type of person.

[Estranged Reality]

8 hours ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

No.

No one can ever be too hard on Axl Rose.

He has single-handedly ruined the GNR legacy, now he has to live with the consequences.

How has he ruined the GN'R legacy?

All the people who complained during the Chinese Democracy era (or lack thereof at times...) wanted him to get back together with Slash, and that has happened. They're touring, they're putting on well-reviewed and well-attended shows. I get that die-hard fans want an album, or more variety in the set lists; but for the casual fan that the reunion tour is targeted toward, they're pretty much delivering exactly what anyone would want, and I think it's overall been handled quite well. I definitely sympathize at times with the idea of changing up the songs more and all that, but again, that's coming more from the perspective of a die-hard fan following all the shows and watching performances on YT, and the average person going to see them isn't going to care about that; they just want to hear SCOM, PC, WTTJ, etc. 

[Nostalgia^]

10 minutes ago, EvanG said:

And let's be honest about the fact that it's fair to be critical. People can say ''be happy with what you got'' and ''I got more than what I expected from them'' as much as they want in this thread, but the truth is that it's not easy being a GnR fan. They aren't exactly the freaking Foo Fighters, or any other band that is drama free and that releases new music consistently and often communicates with their fanbase. And that's ok, that's their right, but then it's not abnormal for fans to express their disappointment on a forum like this. I'd agree with the thread topic if this was Bon Jovi or some band like that, but GnR has enough flaws for us to bitch about. And not everyone is the ''glass is half full'' type of person.

I more or less do agree with this. Everyone has their right to be critical, yes. However I'm still of the opinion that many fans have totally unrealistic demands towards the band....Such as Axl sounding like it was 1988, or the band playing with the original lineup from one day to the other...

Edited July 22, 2017 by Nostalgia^

[Gordon Comstock]

7 minutes ago, Nostalgia^ said:

However I'm still of the opinion that many fans have totally unrealistic demands towards the band....Such as Axl sounding like it was 1988

 

Literally nobody here thinks Axl should sound like he did in the 80's. His vocals are mostly compared to how he sounded last year, or within the last decade at most. What are you talking about? 

[cineater]

I'm in the market for a new GNR board.  You know the one where the party is.  Where the band is just the house band, nobody bitching, nobody sucking up.  Know where that one is?  I'd say PM me but there's a lot of folks looking for it.

[passenger57]

It's a tribute to the strength of the band that they can still sell out stadiums based on songs created over 30 years ago. And it's pretty much a miracle to see Slash and Axl again.

But no one can blame us GnR fans for being frustrated for 20 years of feuds and lack of new original material.

We have to be the most patient fans ever! At this point, I've given up on hearing anything new. If it hasn't come out by now it probably won't

[Nostalgia^]

14 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Literally nobody here thinks Axl should sound like he did in the 80's. His vocals are mostly compared to how he sounded last year, or within the last decade at most. What are you talking about? 

I guess what I meant with the " Axl in the 80s" comment is that many seems to expect that Axl is perfect vocal wise...and that when he has issues or trouble during certain songs..people will come down on him really hard.....usually disregarding that he did awesome the rest of the show.  One misstep becomes the focus of attention way too often/fast here...when it comes to Axl...that's my experience browsing the forums at least. He can do awesome 2½ hours...but by god...people will mention his weak chorus in that song, his bad scream in that song...and his weak delivery in those lines of that one song.....

Edited July 22, 2017 by Nostalgia^

[alfierose]

1 minute ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Literally nobody here thinks Axl should sound like he did in the 80's. His vocals are mostly compared to how he sounded last year, or within the last decade at most. What are you talking about? 

And with AC/DC, a benchmark all of his own doing 

 

2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I don't really understand this point...why do we care what casuals think again?

I don't think ER is saying that we should care but from the band's POV the casuals are who makes up the largest part of the shows not the few 1000 who regularly frequent forums and watch tons of periscopes. They have clearly made some efforts to cater to this base with a revamped Nightrain/presales and exclusive merch and it was nice that more hardcore fans got into the Apollo than was initially expected but realistically they are not going to base setlists on forum complaints. These types of things I imagine are determined by what works for Axl them as a band and what sells the most tickets.

[Padme]

3 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I don't really understand this point...why do we care what casuals think again?

I think it depends on the definition of casual. I mean you are a die hard fan. You go to the show with your girlfriend who just goes there because it is a Saturday night go out with her boyfriend. Then there are other casuals who like the hits and want to see Slash on stage with Axl. Those casuals I'm afraid are the majority attending the show. I don't think those casual would care about Better, Sorry or Blackhole Sun. The question is to what extend they would care about Locomotive or Perfect Crime. What I think is that Patience and Don't Cry, both big hits must have a priority over CD songs or some irrelevant cover.

[marlingrl03]

20 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I don't really understand this point...why do we care what casuals think again?

P.S. I was so nice and levelheaded on the previous page and you fuckers gave me no 'Likes' for it! I'll see you all in hell!

I'm out of likes...I really got to become a club member! So here is a virtual "like" for you goat till I stop procrastinating and become one! 

[estranged_85]

I said this before but it's a difference between of being critical/having an opinion and being mean.

 

 

[Nostalgia^]

15 minutes ago, Padme said:

I think it depends on the definition of casual. I mean you are a die hard fan. You go to the show with your girlfriend who just goes there because it is a Saturday night go out with her boyfriend. Then there are other casuals who like the hits and want to see Slash on stage with Axl. Those casuals I'm afraid are the majority attending the show. I don't think those casual would care about Better, Sorry or Blackhole Sun. The question is to what extend they would care about Locomotive or Perfect Crime. What I think is that Patience and Don't Cry, both big hits must have a priority over CD songs or some irrelevant cover.

Make no mistake....the casuals are the ones making the NITL tour doable...not the hardcore fans

The total number of people signed up to this forum would....only just....be able to fill up a stadium....and Guns fills up these stadiums every other day....for two years straight or so...

Edited July 22, 2017 by Nostalgia^

[alfierose]

30 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

P.S. I was so nice and levelheaded on the previous page and you fuckers gave me no 'Likes' for it! I'll see you all in hell!

Have a retro like. 

[Padme]

2 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Have a retro like. 

I just gave him a like on your behave 

[janrichmond]

I love this forum because you CAN be negative if you want, i'm generally easy going in my life so i don't get all arsey if someone has a differing opinion than mine. 

If we all absolutely loved every little thing the band does the posts in here would get fucking boring really quick.

Having checked out other forums before i joined this one I find it hard to believe anyone finds us more negative than the other [unfiltered] forums

 

@Oldest Goat i 'liked' your levelheaded post on the previous page

 

[TeeJay410]

Looking at the treatment of this sirius show, I'm inclined to say folks are way too hard on them. Of course there are legitimate criticisms of Axl, Slash, aspects of performances, but they get ratcheted to a level where it is hard to tell if people even like the band. And that isn't a complaint about fan purity, but a complaint about egregious negativity.

[gnfnrs1972]

Anyone who sings like Mickey Mouse....or like an old lady voice .... deserves criticism every day. When you butcher your top hits with Mickey for 20 years what do you expect? There is no reason to use that voice ever. It sounds nothing like Axl on an album! If it hurts you or you cant hit the high notes sing in your lower tone voice. Now for my compliment. Best studio recorded band ever. Oh and showing up on time has helped tremendously. These shows would have tanked if they would have been 2 hours late every night. Professionalism goes a long way.

[ericy210]

Constructive criticism is usually healthy.

But it's unproductive and damaging when it becomes super-repetitive mud-slinging in every thread.  It drags the whole forum down.

those who have issues with GNR won't suddenly be convinced to be a super fan .  The superfans won't be convinced they suck.

people who buy tickets and go to the shows seem to love it.  They're the top selling tour thus far in 2017.

a very small vocal minority of message board activists won't change anything.  The only thing they affect are cluttering up the board.

if there was an interesting piece of critical analysis, such as in a particular football play, that could spark interesting conversation.

but repeated comments about Mickey voice, frank, not being as good as Axl/DC are just tired and unnecessary.  It's essentially trolling.

i just don't see this level of juvenile bitching on other music message boards.

We are better than that. Enjoy this ride, which most of us had hoped for.

[Its Tino]

In short form, yes. 

I'm just happy this is happening. I won't criticize the lineup, setlist or lack of new material. Maybe I did at first. Life is too short to complain online IMO. Hey if it helps you sleep a night! I'll just quietly skip past your post. 

If you could get a message back to yourself 10-20 years ago and offer a semi-reunion tour with just Slash, Duff and Axl, but you don't get new material and the same set list for 2 years, would you say no?

[Nostalgia^]

Star Man is totally right Enjoy it while it lasts.....or don't and be miserable I guess

Edited July 22, 2017 by Nostalgia^

[Gordon Comstock]

50 minutes ago, Nostalgia^ said:

I guess what I meant with the " Axl in the 80s" comment is that many seems to expect that Axl is perfect vocal wise...and that when he has issues or trouble during certain songs..people will come down on him really hard.....usually disregarding that he did awesome the rest of the show.  One misstep becomes the focus of attention way too often/fast here...when it comes to Axl...that's my experience browsing the forums at least. He can do awesome 2½ hours...but by god...people will mention his weak chorus in that song, his bad scream in that song...and his weak delivery in those lines of that one song.....

 

Was he perfect on the NA '16 tour? No. He still sounded weak on the songs we expect him to - YCBM, PC, etc., but the difference the rest of the time was night and day. Even if he didn't sound like he did in AC/DC there was still some grit, some venom in his voice, and where before there were only a handful of songs where he didn't sound so good, now there's only a handful of songs where he does sound good. For example, Coma is my favourite song ever, by any band, and the current live performances of it are unlistenable.

[Padme]

5 minutes ago, ericy210 said:

Constructive criticism is usually healthy.

But it's unproductive and damaging when it becomes super-repetitive mud-slinging in every thread.  It drags the whole forum down.

those who have issues with GNR won't suddenly be convinced to be a super fan .  The superfans won't be convinced they suck.

people who buy tickets and go to the shows seem to love it.  They're the top selling tour thus far in 2017.

a very small vocal minority of message board activists won't change anything.  The only thing they affect are cluttering up the board.

if there was an interesting piece of critical analysis, such as in a particular football play, that could spark interesting conversation.

but repeated comments about Mickey voice, frank, not being as good as Axl/DC are just tired and unnecessary.  It's essentially trolling.

i just don't see this level of juvenile bitching on other music message boards.

We are better than that. Enjoy this ride, which most of us had hoped for.

But GN'R is not a normal band. Here it is hard find 100% people happy about everything. Because 1) there is no CD II for those who want that  2) there is no AFD5 for those who want that  3) there is no 2001 line up for those who want it

So at the end of the day you got a big amount of people who are complaning about different things. Only those who just care about Axl and Slash and the neverending tour are the ones who are not complaning. They have all they want.

[Nostalgia^]

17 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

now there's only a handful of songs where he does sound good.

I guess I just don't agree with this overall. I saw them live a few months ago and I just re-listened to the Apollo show....and IMO there's only a few songs where he doesn't sound good. The rest he was pretty good to great!

Now Frank on drums...that's a different story...but that's mostly because he doesn't play the fills like Matt or Adler used too....so it seems unoriginal....but is that bad or good? I don't know. His Estranged playing is way off....More than you would say a vocal was off....

Edited July 22, 2017 by Nostalgia^

[Lio]

11 minutes ago, TeeJay410 said:

Looking at the treatment of this sirius show, I'm inclined to say folks are way too hard on them. Of course there are legitimate criticisms of Axl, Slash, aspects of performances, but they get ratcheted to a level where it is hard to tell if people even like the band. And that isn't a complaint about fan purity, but a complaint about egregious negativity.

What annoys me, is that people who are actually there at the shows, are ignored if they say Axl sounded great and Slash played like a beast. You will still have people writing how Axl doesn't run, how Axl is phoning it in, how Slash looks bored. That's just untrue. Anyone who's been to a show, can vouch for that. It's okay if you don't like his voice or Slash improvising or Frank's drumming, but don't make up stuff.

I've literally seen threads with many positive reviews from posters who were there, and then for someone to come in the thread and say: Lol, same setlist, Axl sounds like a dying cat and looks like a grandma. And then people reacting to that by: Yes, it's a disaster, he's obviously not trying. It's like it's a parallel universe. People leave the shows all excited, coming back for more. Reviews are mostly positive, as far as I know. The worst things you read about GNR are on here, and 99% of the time by people who weren't even at the show they're bashing, not by the people attending.

Again, it's okay to wish things were different, but I don't think it's okay to be downright mean and super negative when that's really not fair. The Sirius thing is a good example. A free show, a free soundboard recording, lots of fans got in, every review I've read of posters that were there, were over the moon to have been there and enjoyed it immensely, getting a full setlist in a small venue, some calling it the best show ever they've been to. Still, the overall vibe in the thread is negative, by people who weren't there and didn't get what they feel they deserved. That's just crazy imo.