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Chinese Democracy and DRM.


Birdie

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Okay, surely all of you are music fans and recently a lot of record companies and such are coming under fire for trying all sorts of absurd methods to stop piracy of their products. Rootkits, making the CD almost impossible to play on the PC itself and having to install software in order to play it on a PC and still not have the means to rip the CD to a computer. Personally I find it a pointless cause to stop people from having the rights to play and rip their purchased CD to a computer.

So, here's what I ask. When Chinese Democracy is released, (I see it as When and not If) what are the chances of it being filled with DRM software and such? With an album with so much work behind it over so many years and with so much money, how far do you think GNR Management would go to stop it being ripped from a CD, from being played on a computer and ultimately put onto the net? (No, I am not in favour of it being put onto the net AT ALL, I am just not keen on DRM stuff.)

If it does happen, do you think it will affect you? Will you be angry and will it put you off buying it? Personally I would be damned angry because I spend a lot of my time at my PC and therefore would enjoy being able to listen to and rip it to my PC.

EDIT: I have looked for a topic of this nature in this forum, if I have missed one elsewhere then please feel free to lock this.

Edited by Birdie
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Okay, surely all of you are music fans and recently a lot of record companies and such are coming under fire for trying all sorts of absurd methods to stop piracy of their products. Rootkits, making the CD almost impossible to play on the PC itself and having to install software in order to play it on a PC and still not have the means to rip the CD to a computer. Personally I find it a pointless cause to stop people from having the rights to play and rip their purchased CD to a computer.

So, here's what I ask. When Chinese Democracy is released, (I see it as When and not If) what are the chances of it being filled with DRM software and such? With an album with so much work behind it over so many years and with so much money, how far do you think GNR Management would go to stop it being ripped from a CD, from being played on a computer and ultimately put onto the net? (No, I am not in favour of it being put onto the net AT ALL, I am just not keen on DRM stuff.)

If it does happen, do you think it will affect you? Will you be angry and will it put you off buying it? Personally I would be damned angry because I spend a lot of my time at my PC and therefore would enjoy being able to listen to and rip it to my PC.

EDIT: I have looked for a topic of this nature in this forum, if I have missed one elsewhere then please feel free to lock this.

Good thought. I hate it when they do this to CD's. I pay money for it, then I pop it in my computer and I have to download their software to play it or it doesn't work at all etc...REALLY pisses me off. If I want to get the CD for free I wouldn't be buying the disk in the first place so this kind of security is really not targeting the problem and only angers the customer. I'll buy CD when it comes out but if it has this type of software on it I'll quickly warn others to obtain different copies of it so they don't have to deal with the headache.

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Okay, surely all of you are music fans and recently a lot of record companies and such are coming under fire for trying all sorts of absurd methods to stop piracy of their products. Rootkits, making the CD almost impossible to play on the PC itself and having to install software in order to play it on a PC and still not have the means to rip the CD to a computer. Personally I find it a pointless cause to stop people from having the rights to play and rip their purchased CD to a computer.

So, here's what I ask. When Chinese Democracy is released, (I see it as When and not If) what are the chances of it being filled with DRM software and such? With an album with so much work behind it over so many years and with so much money, how far do you think GNR Management would go to stop it being ripped from a CD, from being played on a computer and ultimately put onto the net? (No, I am not in favour of it being put onto the net AT ALL, I am just not keen on DRM stuff.)

If it does happen, do you think it will affect you? Will you be angry and will it put you off buying it? Personally I would be damned angry because I spend a lot of my time at my PC and therefore would enjoy being able to listen to and rip it to my PC.

EDIT: I have looked for a topic of this nature in this forum, if I have missed one elsewhere then please feel free to lock this.

Im sure the will make provisions for such problems but with the best will in the world you cannot make it impossible to crack no matter how much you try - starforce has been considered the best way to protect games yet i have friends who cracked it with ease.For every new way they think of to prevent it there are hundreds of people breaking cracks and making money.

More often than not the people who created such security's were also the ones who supplied the cracks or had a hand in other peopke getting them ;)

GnR are no different from other bands who will lose money to the net but they are also like other bands who have been kept alive and profited by the net so for me its swings and ladders < deliberate mistake ;)

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They have all the right to do anything to protect their investment. Everything else, is philosophy. This is business. You can't complain about companies trying to protect from pirating. The cd you buy only intitles you to hear music off that cd. Do not make this into a moral dilema. It is business plain and simple. I don't blame them???

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It's pointless really, it'd get ripped by somebody who knows their stuff anyway no matter what they did.

As far as causing inconvenience goes... meh, what does it metter? If you bought the CD and can't rip it then download it off Bitorrent... you've bought it anyway so you're not doing anything wrong, morally at least. Even if you don't wanna do that you could buy it again on iTunes etc... most people will be buying multiple copies on the forums anyway so you could buy one downloaded and one physical copy if you liked.

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Good topic.

I think this thing will have security up the yin yang. Axl is a paranoid sort as it is and after all this wait, both he and the company will want to try and maximize profits best they can.

That said, there is no beating the hackers. These tunes will wind up on LimeWire sooner than later.

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Good topic.

I think this thing will have security up the yin yang. Axl is a paranoid sort as it is and after all this wait, both he and the company will want to try and maximize profits best they can.

That said, there is no beating the hackers. These tunes will wind up on LimeWire sooner than later.

for every new protection system brought out 2 more hackers try to break it

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I was pissed when I bought 'Contraband' because I could not put the songs on my iPod. The protection on that is insane.

So I just downloaded them from LimeWire. The band already got my money once. I am not paying for the CD and then paying again for iTunes.

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They have all the right to do anything to protect their investment. Everything else, is philosophy. This is business. You can't complain about companies trying to protect from pirating. The cd you buy only intitles you to hear music off that cd. Do not make this into a moral dilema. It is business plain and simple. I don't blame them???

Whatever, anyone that wants to hack that shit can, this is not protecting anything it's just a pain in the ass for the people that do pay for the CD and want to pop it into their computer to play. You're right, the CD I buy only entitles me to hear the music off that cd and if I put it in the computer and can't hear that CD then I'll be pissed off and quickly fix the problem and offer clean copies to friends that I would not want to have to pay for some shite like that.

If you put a disk in your computer that you have paid for it should play without downloading cookies or other software to your computer. I never gave anyone permission to put their shit on my machine but now I can't play the CD I paid for unless I allow it? Fuck that. This stuff only pisses people off and protects nothing.

Take me for instance, I'll pay for CD and happily listen to it. If it's full of some spyware, encryption, blow-it-out-your-ass type of thing, I'll crack it. :anger:

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Guest JohnUlmer

Anything can be cracked.

Most of it's really easy. You can bypass the VR/Contraband protection by disabling autorun or holding down the shift key during startup.

Whether or not CD has security is the least of my worries. :)

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I was pissed when I bought 'Contraband' because I could not put the songs on my iPod. The protection on that is insane.

So I just downloaded them from LimeWire. The band already got my money once. I am not paying for the CD and then paying again for iTunes.

Really? I just disabled the copy protection codec when I bought the cd

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They have all the right to do anything to protect their investment. Everything else, is philosophy. This is business. You can't complain about companies trying to protect from pirating. The cd you buy only intitles you to hear music off that cd. Do not make this into a moral dilema. It is business plain and simple. I don't blame them???

You *can* and *should* complain. Companies aren't trying to protect themselves from piracy. Real pirates laugh at the shoddy DRM music companies use. And you are factually incorrect when you claim "The cd you buy only intitles you to hear music off that cd." - WRONG. Copyright law in most nations under Fair Use or similar headings allows you to copy works for personal use. When you buy a CD full of songs you are legally entitled to copy those songs, for example, to a tape to play in your car.

The record industry has chosen to ignore the law because it's big, rich, and powerful enough to do so. It bought legislation (DMCA, NET Act) that sends people to jail for breaking DRM, and then it fills CDs with DRM schemes akin to viruses in order to force consumers into buying multiple copies of the same music.

This and the lawsuits will float the RIAA's failing business model for a few more years, which is all they really want to do - buy time so they can gauge you more.

It's not business, it's borderline illegal, which is why they're facing a RICO suit, being investiaged by at least one attorney general, and have settled multiple lawsuits out of court to avoid embarassment.

P.S. - whoever mentioned StarForce is this thread - that protection scheme was coded by former crackers, many of whom would be facing jail sentences if they were ever found. It's the biggest joke in the gaming world, the gaming industry hired a bunch of hackers/crackers to protect their product - and StarForce, as noted by PC Gamer and a lot of other industry magazines and websites, can do serious damage to your PC. Think twice before ever buying a game with it. It functions at the driver level and is nearly impossible to get rid of without formatting.

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They have all the right to do anything to protect their investment. Everything else, is philosophy. This is business. You can't complain about companies trying to protect from pirating. The cd you buy only intitles you to hear music off that cd. Do not make this into a moral dilema. It is business plain and simple. I don't blame them???

You *can* and *should* complain. Companies aren't trying to protect themselves from piracy. Real pirates laugh at the shoddy DRM music companies use. And you are factually incorrect when you claim "The cd you buy only intitles you to hear music off that cd." - WRONG. Copyright law in most nations under Fair Use or similar headings allows you to copy works for personal use. When you buy a CD full of songs you are legally entitled to copy those songs, for example, to a tape to play in your car.

The record industry has chosen to ignore the law because it's big, rich, and powerful enough to do so. It bought legislation (DMCA, NET Act) that sends people to jail for breaking DRM, and then it fills CDs with DRM schemes akin to viruses in order to force consumers into buying multiple copies of the same music.

This and the lawsuits will float the RIAA's failing business model for a few more years, which is all they really want to do - buy time so they can gauge you more.

It's not business, it's borderline illegal, which is why they're facing a RICO suit, being investiaged by at least one attorney general, and have settled multiple lawsuits out of court to avoid embarassment.

P.S. - whoever mentioned StarForce is this thread - that protection scheme was coded by former crackers, many of whom would be facing jail sentences if they were ever found. It's the biggest joke in the gaming world, the gaming industry hired a bunch of hackers/crackers to protect their product - and StarForce, as noted by PC Gamer and a lot of other industry magazines and websites, can do serious damage to your PC. Think twice before ever buying a game with it. It functions at the driver level and is nearly impossible to get rid of without formatting.

You are correct in fact. You obviously know much more about this than I do, or care to know. And I am not on the side of record companies. But do think they have the right to protect their interests. I can copy or burn anything I want. And I do so at my descretion anyway. I will take precautions to make sure I can always counter anything they come up with. I personally do not like "burned" cd's. And I am not happy with listening to MP3's. I always buy the disc if I like the music. I see nothing wrong with people copying for themselves. I wish I could comment further on your message, but I just don't have the facts on this one.

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To their credit, they did include protected WMA on the Contraband CD. So they did not make it impossible to get it on your PC.

And the CD ripped directly onto a friend's PC using iTunes and ripped directly onto my Mac using iTunes. So even though the CD explicitly said that was locked with DRM, it was a total non-issue.

So far I've never even had to TRY to work around any DRM.

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Sony recalled and pulled all DRM cd's from the shelves. If you still have a DRM cd return it to them!

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/

Anyhoo, yeh velvet revolver was easily stopped and also they also gave you a yes/no dialogue to install or not. You could rip and place on your ipod songs off contraband i thought thats what was so good with the copy protection on that.

Also p2p is only killing the music industry in the US, cd sales in the UK have increased (faster than the populous) since the introduction of file sharing.

Edited by life_247
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Sony recalled and pulled all DRM cd's from the shelves.

Maybe so, but there are still record companies out there putting software other than rootkits onto their CD's to protect them, and I bet Sony still has some sort of protection on their CD's albeit probably not as drastic as the rootkit. I remember my Franz Ferdinand CD was unable to play on my PC, let alone being able to rip it. If Chinese Democracy has anything such as that I won't be pleased. I am by no means a pirate, I have no intention of sharing Chinese Democracy on the internet but buying a CD should allow me to play it on a device as well as save it to the device. I believe that counts as fair use and if that isn't fair use then someone correct me, but I still believe otherwise.

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