TWAT and IRS new leaks discussion

[J-Studham]

ahahahemmm whats going on, anyone mind pm'n me some files mp3yousendit*cough* ?*cough*allofem?*cough* wtf is going on? seems like I missed alot

[KBear]

The last solo in this version of I.R.S. actually sounds like Bucket's solo (in terms of it's melodic progression). It's just that whoever is playing it (Finck I presume) just can't play it as well as Bucket did. Well, I guess this is the solo as Finck wrote it, and then Bucket came on board and took it to the next level. Either that or the Bucket version was the first one, and this latest leak is Finck trying to play it (kinda sounds like him trying to play November Rain ). Anyways, probably the first scenario.

IMO, take the Bucket solo and insert it into this just leaked version and it's much better than what we had before, which overall sounded just a little too perfect IMO.

[supersillyspacemonkey]

for the most part i like this I.R.S a lot better.

the guitars are much clearer and sound much nicer, except when it comes time for the solo and its just balderdash.

i wish they had bucket in that cause the solo in the first I.R.S is awesome but everything else in this version is awesome but the solo.

[J-Studham]

kinda seems like these ones are focusing more on voice than instrument,

I have to say, I dont think Axl could have ever done these new songs back in the 80's it just sounds so different from then, like the voice doesnt seem to fit his body back then I know that sounded fucked but haha some of you will get what I mean, it would just sound different, or wouldnt be there, that is why these songs are for today and not the past

[Nightcrawler]

Let me ask what is probably a stupid question. How do people know with such certainty that these versions are from 1999? I don't doubt that they are, but is there any kind of evidence for this?

ever hear oh my god?

[KBear]

Let me ask what is probably a stupid question. How do people know with such certainty that these versions are from 1999? I don't doubt that they are, but is there any kind of evidence for this?

ever hear oh my god?

These sound nothing like OMG.

Anyways I was looking for proof, if it existed. Not assumptions.

Edited May 27, 2006 by KBear

[Nightcrawler]

Let me ask what is probably a stupid question. How do people know with such certainty that these versions are from 1999? I don't doubt that they are, but is there any kind of evidence for this?

ever hear oh my god?

These sound nothing like OMG.

Anyways I was looking for proof, if it existed. Not assumptions.

Josh Freeze. how long has he been gone?

[T Patten]

There was new leaks?, i haven't been on here much lately, could someone pm me with an update

[supersillyspacemonkey]

this is now what leads me to believe that both versions of each song we have are very badly done demos.

the solos in the first leaked ones really kicked ass and so did axl voice and whatnot.

but there are things in these ones that you can not hear in the other leaked versions, like in twat there is the orchestra or whatever the hell that is and in IRS theres the second guitar riff going along with it.

this kind of stuff we have in the just leaked versions really couldnt have been deleted because they just complete the songs.

i dont know why the second riff in the old irs isnt there, maybe one of them just wasnt there to record i dont know or it was just for practice.

anyway basically if you mix the good qualities of these 2 versions of the leaks you should basically get whats gonna be on CD, which is pretty damn good.

but this is just what im thinking.

[KBear]

Let me ask what is probably a stupid question. How do people know with such certainty that these versions are from 1999? I don't doubt that they are, but is there any kind of evidence for this?

ever hear oh my god?

These sound nothing like OMG.

Anyways I was looking for proof, if it existed. Not assumptions.

Josh Freeze. how long has he been gone?

Well, that's more like it. But I'll have to take your word for it that it's Freese. I wouldn't know. I do know that the drums here don't sound like Brain's work, so that's probably a pretty good indication that it's Josh.

I just didn't like people proclaiming that it's definitely from 1999, without explaining why they reached that conclusion. Make sense?

[Nightcrawler]

Let me ask what is probably a stupid question. How do people know with such certainty that these versions are from 1999? I don't doubt that they are, but is there any kind of evidence for this?

ever hear oh my god?

These sound nothing like OMG.

Anyways I was looking for proof, if it existed. Not assumptions.

Josh Freeze. how long has he been gone?

Well, that's more like it. But I'll have to take your word for it that it's Freese. I wouldn't know. I do know that the drums here don't sound like Brain's work, so that's probably a pretty good indication that it's Josh.

I just didn't like people proclaiming that it's definitely from 1999, without explaining why they reached that conclusion. Make sense?

Yeah, I was just giving you why i thought they were old, to me they sound closer in style of playing to oh my god, the band not axl. The drumming was the biggest thing, felt like freeze to me like oh my god did. Also more NIN style guitars and robin then the first leaks . Rollinsgtone heard demos in 1999 and said it was zep PG era meets NIN, these fit that bill more than the other leaks did.

Also, I'm familiar with Brain and his style and I'd bet that wasn't brain.

[gunsguy]

maybe merck could be contacted again, and since they are played live now we can share them here??? I mean whats the point if everyone just pms everyone, we all get them anyway

gunsguy

[IndiannaRose]

It's interesting to see how these songs have evolved over time. I personally prefer the more recent I.R.S. to this one because to me Buckethead's solo, the faster tempo, & those first powerful intro chords add an assasinating vibe to the song. Although, for some odd reason, I prefer the production on this 'raw' demo.

This version of T.W.A.T. seems to have clearer vocals than the last. I didn't like how Axl's voice got smuthered in the last leak. Overall though, I prefer the leak we already have to this one. Buckethead's solos again just add another dimension to the track. The live version of this song is still my favorite though. The new, haunting intro that they added to the track just escalated it to an unpresedented level. This new leak seems to be more personal though. I can hear Axl's emotions through his words with a much broader net of understanding.

Chinese Democracy will be an interesting album. It's an enigma of an entity. These tracks, even at their angriest (Better), can show beauty in the most fortune way.

Crazy.

[Nightcrawler]

It's interesting to see how these songs have evolved over time. I personally prefer the more recent I.R.S. to this one because to me Buckethead's solo, the faster tempo, & those first powerful intro chords add an assasinating vibe to the song. Although, for some odd reason, I prefer the production on this 'raw' demo.

This version of T.W.A.T. seems to have clearer vocals than the last. I didn't like how Axl's voice got smuthered in the last leak. Overall though, I prefer the leak we already have to this one. Buckethead's solos again just add another dimension to the track. The live version of this song is still my favorite though. The new, haunting intro that they added to the track just escalated it to an unpresedented level. This new leak seems to be more personal though. I can hear Axl's emotions through his words with a much broader net of understanding.

Chinese Democracy will be an interesting album. It's an enigma of an entity. These tracks, even at their angriest (Better), can show beauty in the most fortune way.

Crazy.

I think the band post 1999/2000 sound alot better, even if Axl did get smothered in those demos, he probably won't be smothered in the final mix. Musically it's night and day in my opinion even without Buckets add ons, robin and richard sound like better musicans now. Hell, the album takes are probably even more evolved.

[IndiannaRose]

It's interesting to see how these songs have evolved over time. I personally prefer the more recent I.R.S. to this one because to me Buckethead's solo, the faster tempo, & those first powerful intro chords add an assasinating vibe to the song. Although, for some odd reason, I prefer the production on this 'raw' demo.

This version of T.W.A.T. seems to have clearer vocals than the last. I didn't like how Axl's voice got smuthered in the last leak. Overall though, I prefer the leak we already have to this one. Buckethead's solos again just add another dimension to the track. The live version of this song is still my favorite though. The new, haunting intro that they added to the track just escalated it to an unpresedented level. This new leak seems to be more personal though. I can hear Axl's emotions through his words with a much broader net of understanding.

Chinese Democracy will be an interesting album. It's an enigma of an entity. These tracks, even at their angriest (Better), can show beauty in the most fortune way.

Crazy.

I think the band post 1999/2000 sound alot better, even if Axl did get smothered in those demos, he probably won't be smothered in the final mix. Musically it's night and day in my opinion even without Buckets add ons, robin and richard sound like better musicans now. Hell, the album takes are probably even more evolved.

I totally agree with you on that. As of late, the band sounds much tighter as a cohesive effort. Like you said, they sound like better musicians. In simpler words, this band has become superior to what it was in the past (1999-2000).

[izzybrownstone]

The first solo that they do live in IRS at the Hammerstein shows is the last solo in this version of the demo. So Robins solo at the end of IRS was replaced with Buckets shredding solo and they then put the old solo (Robins) as the first solo in the live version. Got it?

[Nightcrawler]

It's interesting to see how these songs have evolved over time. I personally prefer the more recent I.R.S. to this one because to me Buckethead's solo, the faster tempo, & those first powerful intro chords add an assasinating vibe to the song. Although, for some odd reason, I prefer the production on this 'raw' demo.

This version of T.W.A.T. seems to have clearer vocals than the last. I didn't like how Axl's voice got smuthered in the last leak. Overall though, I prefer the leak we already have to this one. Buckethead's solos again just add another dimension to the track. The live version of this song is still my favorite though. The new, haunting intro that they added to the track just escalated it to an unpresedented level. This new leak seems to be more personal though. I can hear Axl's emotions through his words with a much broader net of understanding.

Chinese Democracy will be an interesting album. It's an enigma of an entity. These tracks, even at their angriest (Better), can show beauty in the most fortune way.

Crazy.

I think the band post 1999/2000 sound alot better, even if Axl did get smothered in those demos, he probably won't be smothered in the final mix. Musically it's night and day in my opinion even without Buckets add ons, robin and richard sound like better musicans now. Hell, the album takes are probably even more evolved.

I totally agree with you on that. As of late, the band sounds much tighter as a cohesive effort. Like you said, they sound like better musicians. In simpler words, this band has become superior to what it was in the past (1999-2000).

yeah, it makes me think that for some bands, refining songs over time works well. Axl really let them evolve and it shows. It really allowed Robin to grow as a player beyond the industrial style. I also think Tommy and brain play off eachother better than josh and tommy did.

I think your right, this album, will be intresting.

Edited May 27, 2006 by Nightcrawler

[KBear]

Let me ask what is probably a stupid question. How do people know with such certainty that these versions are from 1999? I don't doubt that they are, but is there any kind of evidence for this?

ever hear oh my god?

These sound nothing like OMG.

Anyways I was looking for proof, if it existed. Not assumptions.

Josh Freeze. how long has he been gone?

Well, that's more like it. But I'll have to take your word for it that it's Freese. I wouldn't know. I do know that the drums here don't sound like Brain's work, so that's probably a pretty good indication that it's Josh.

I just didn't like people proclaiming that it's definitely from 1999, without explaining why they reached that conclusion. Make sense?

Yeah, I was just giving you why i thought they were old, to me they sound closer in style of playing to oh my god, the band not axl. The drumming was the biggest thing, felt like freeze to me like oh my god did. Also more NIN style guitars and robin then the first leaks . Rollinsgtone heard demos in 1999 and said it was zep PG era meets NIN, these fit that bill more than the other leaks did.

Also, I'm familiar with Brain and his style and I'd bet that wasn't brain.

Agreed. I've listened to OMG several times but it's just not something I enjoyed. So I really haven't listened to it closely at all. Way to industrial/computerized sound for my liking. It was better live. I'd actually like to have the song on one of the albums assuming they tone down the industrial sound which really just dominates the track.

I would agree that these latest leaks are maybe more industrial than what we've had, but it's hardly by much at all. These are still very rock oriented; any other type of sound is secondary.

I agree with SSSM that some of the details in these leaks complete the song and must remain. Stuff like the guitars under the chorus in IRS really sound great. Why would they be removed? I suppose they'd be much harder to hear in the other version with the loud distorted guitars that play under the chorus, so that's maybe why they are not there. And, in the demos we had before, how can you remove those BH solos? They are amazing and the songs lose so much without them there. I'm quite confident that they will be in the final mix though. That's why Thal joined.

The bottom line I think is that the final track of each song will likely take bits and pieces from several different demos.

Edited May 27, 2006 by KBear

[Nightcrawler]

Let me ask what is probably a stupid question. How do people know with such certainty that these versions are from 1999? I don't doubt that they are, but is there any kind of evidence for this?

ever hear oh my god?

These sound nothing like OMG.

Anyways I was looking for proof, if it existed. Not assumptions.

Josh Freeze. how long has he been gone?

Well, that's more like it. But I'll have to take your word for it that it's Freese. I wouldn't know. I do know that the drums here don't sound like Brain's work, so that's probably a pretty good indication that it's Josh.

I just didn't like people proclaiming that it's definitely from 1999, without explaining why they reached that conclusion. Make sense?

Yeah, I was just giving you why i thought they were old, to me they sound closer in style of playing to oh my god, the band not axl. The drumming was the biggest thing, felt like freeze to me like oh my god did. Also more NIN style guitars and robin then the first leaks . Rollinsgtone heard demos in 1999 and said it was zep PG era meets NIN, these fit that bill more than the other leaks did.

Also, I'm familiar with Brain and his style and I'd bet that wasn't brain.

Agreed. I've listened to OMG several times but it's just not something I enjoyed. So I really haven't listened to it closely at all. Way to industrial/computerized sound for my liking. It was better live. I'd actually like to have the song on one of the albums assuming they tone down the industrial sound which really just dominates the track.

I would agree that these latest leaks are maybe more industrial than what we've had, but it's hardly by much at all. These are still very rock oriented; any other type of sound is secondary.

I agree with SSSM that some of the details in these leaks complete the song and must remain. Stuff like the guitars under the chorus in IRS really sound great. Why would they be removed? I suppose they'd be much harder to hear in the other version with the loud distorted guitars that play under the chorus, so that's maybe why they are not there. And, in the demos we had before, how can you remove those BH solos? They are amazing and the songs lose so much without them there. I'm quite confident that they will be in the final mix though. That's why Thal joined.

The bottom line I think is that the final track of each song will likely take bits and pieces from several different demos.

Speaking about the music only and not the vocals:

Like you said, not completely industrial but Zeppelin/NIN without the big booming sound. They had the roughness of Physical graphitti [like custard pie for instance] I thought but the rough edge of NIN physical or happiness in slavery type songs. [nnot direct comparisons]

I got a very zep phyiscal graphitti vibe from them, although the band couldn't quite pull it off [but who can]

I also hope that buckets contributions stay, even if Ron reworks them or re-recorded them over the past year. The third guitar adds alot to the sound.

it's seems they used the first batch as guide tracks and refined and altered them to thier liking.

[KBear]

It's interesting to see how these songs have evolved over time. I personally prefer the more recent I.R.S. to this one because to me Buckethead's solo, the faster tempo, & those first powerful intro chords add an assasinating vibe to the song. Although, for some odd reason, I prefer the production on this 'raw' demo.

This version of T.W.A.T. seems to have clearer vocals than the last. I didn't like how Axl's voice got smuthered in the last leak. Overall though, I prefer the leak we already have to this one. Buckethead's solos again just add another dimension to the track. The live version of this song is still my favorite though. The new, haunting intro that they added to the track just escalated it to an unpresedented level. This new leak seems to be more personal though. I can hear Axl's emotions through his words with a much broader net of understanding.

Chinese Democracy will be an interesting album. It's an enigma of an entity. These tracks, even at their angriest (Better), can show beauty in the most fortune way.

Crazy.

I think the band post 1999/2000 sound alot better, even if Axl did get smothered in those demos, he probably won't be smothered in the final mix. Musically it's night and day in my opinion even without Buckets add ons, robin and richard sound like better musicans now. Hell, the album takes are probably even more evolved.

I totally agree with you on that. As of late, the band sounds much tighter as a cohesive effort. Like you said, they sound like better musicians. In simpler words, this band has become superior to what it was in the past (1999-2000).

Well, that's certainly evident in the live performances, but I'm not sure what we can conclude from these demos. First of all, these are demos so the goal is to try different things and not necessarily put together a finished product. I think the later version of I.R.S., I don't see why the 1999 band couldn't have done that. I'm no musician, but it doesn't sound like a complicated song to play, and other posters here have said the same. Axl wanted to release the album back in 2000 but Geffen turned him down (or so the story goes). If this is at all true, then Axl must have liked what that band was doing.

We are sort of comparing apples to oranges anyways, as the two bands are very different. It's not just Bucket that got added on, Fortus wasn't around in 1999. It's Paul Huge in these recordings. Freese on drums rather than Brain. Pittman I am unsure of, he joined right around this time if I'm not mistaken (March of 2000 I believe). It's more apples to apples to compare the 2002 band to the current one, as every member is the same save for BH.

[Whee1010]

Oh woe is me, I have this new leak of TWAT but I have never heard the previous leak so I can't compare them *sniffle* Only by the power of a generous soul and PM technology will my sorrow be assuaged.

On a different note, CITR...never got that either *sniffle*

[Roses eats Lions]

god damn, I´m telling it, these new leaks are better versions of TWAT and IRS then the first leaks...the ending on IRS is much better on this one, real cool, and with some more emotions...TWAT is also cleaner and better...

[Guest roses_are_red]

someone should PM me the TWAT instru please

[rubys_corner]

Don't PM me the new versions!

[Dani69]

PM it to me anyway. I want to build my own opinion.