How do you feel about the Del James press release?

[Elnombre]

Del is probably laughing it up. This is the most attention the fucker's had in 15 years.

[Carne_asaDA]

Del is probably laughing it up. This is the most attention the fucker's had in 15 years.

Indeed, after all, he's a failed author.

[KBear]

Let's try this again...

First, he was talking about the whiners at bb's. You fuckers are doing the same thing that the media does... mis-quoting Del's words.

Here's what they taught you that math in school for...

The highest read thread here is 12,000 people. No more than 500 of them could be in Baltimore, MD.

If 400 of them go to a show with 13,000 people in the audience, that's only 3 percent of the crowd coming from this bb.

Also, he was talking about the WHINERS at these bb's. Which is, let's say, are actually 40 of the 400 people who go to the Baltimore show. That's 3-tenths of one percent.

So I'll say it FOR him, the whiners can go fuck themselves because if the Baltimore show lacks these 40 whiners, no one cares... and everybody else had a good time.

So the most important fans are casual fans who at this point probably don't really care all that much about GN'R anymore? The hardcore fans mean nothing. This is offensive on many levels.

We'll cater to the casaul fan who desires the old hits, despite the fact that Axl is on the verge of launching an album that may define his career. There was a time when Chinese Democracy was supposed to be momentus. The way the band is playing their cards now it hardly seems significant; this to me is baffling. Why do a new album tour when you have nothing to support it? Is that not a valid question? Or is it valid only if it's asked by a casaul fan?

From the outside we are surely missing a lot of information, but it doesn't look to me like this ship has any real direction. It has been that way for many years now. They play the MTV VMAs back in 2002 and despite Axl's hit and miss singing the excitement is off the charts, but there is no album in sight. When there is an album in sight Axl does an introduction for a pretty lame band. Whoop dee doo. They got it backwards. You sing on the VMA's when you've got an album coming out, not four years before.

Guns has been on tour now for a fairly long stretch; when they do finally announce their return to the world it will lose some of it's impact because guess what - the press that is getting out there is that the band is playing and that it's a nostalgia act. You see it right there in the Jacksonville review. The focus shouldn't be on AFD, it should be on Chi Dem. They are undermining the new album IMO by playing for six months primarily old stuff and not even talking about the new album. The band is in the process of being pigeonholed and they are doing it to themselves.

Anyways, I get your main point. Economically speaking, casual fans make up more of the ticket sales and album sales than hardcore fans make up. Fine. Of course you'll cater to them, it's Business 101. Doesn't mean you bash your hardcore fans. Alienating them is unnecessary. It would have been a lot more constructive to explain why the setlist has been so constant and focused on AFD, and to give us a hint at when new songs would appear.

But I think you're wrong about them not giving a shit about the whiners (at least after the outcry on this board and on others). Del's letter was taken down - so apparently they had second thoughts about pissing off the Internet whiners, maybe realizing that there was nothing to be gained from doing that.

Oh yeah, I'd be remiss if I forgot to mention the following line almost made me bust a gut laughing.

Del can do a super-triple-summersault and disappear into his own sphincter for all I care.

Edited November 2, 2006 by KBear

[wasted]

I have no idea why GNR hate the forums. Maybe we are the new Media that was attacked in Get in the Ring??????????????

"Into the blue again after the moneys gone"

These are fans opinions not some massive company attacking GNR...

[madison]

I didn't vote in this poll - but I would like to add a few comments.

First, I've always admired Del. I think he's a great writer (judging from his rock columns in the past and his "Language of Fear" book), and normally really enjoy reading his work. *I think he forgot to use spell checker in this particular column, but that's beside the point.*

While I agree with the general spirit of the article, I disagree with some of the points he made.

First, I found it rather lame that he would defend GNR being constantly late by claiming that "This is supposed to be an all night party. When the f*ck did rock n' roll -- and the last time I checked rock music was supposed to be a non-conformist, rebellious, art form -- get a Flavor Flav-sized time clock wrapped around its neck like a hangman's noose? Rebellion and punctuality do not go hand in hand and for those of you too young to remember, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin rarely went on before midnight in their hey day.... ".... Well, the Stones don't show up hours late today, Del. They respect their aging fans, who they recognize have jobs to do in order to pay the rent. And sorry to point out the obvious Del - but GNR are NOT rebel rocker kids still in their heyday. They don't have an album on top of the billboard charts -- they're a band of grown men trying to make a comeback. And I just don't think it's smart for the band to disrespect the diehard fans who have struck with them all these years by showing up late at virtually every single show.

While it doesn't bother me personally - I know it's very difficult for fans who have jobs, wives and children at home that they have to think about when taking time off work to see a GNR show. I think the band needs to be more respectful and cognizant of this. This isn't a tough concept to grasp.

Second, Del says "a rock band has to do certain things in order to be prepared to hit the stage." Yes, this is a true. And it's up to the band members to get to the venue early enough in order to prepare themselves. And if that means coming home from a party at 3am instead of 5am in order for them to get to the venue earlier, then so be it. This is their responsbility - and one that should be taken seriously.

I think it's time you and your pals plugged into the real world - and discovered the way real people work and live their lives - rather than living in a sheltered, fan-paid, fantasy party subsidized by the fans. Just my 2 cents. Sorry to be harsh - but I find it really arrogant and disrespectful for you to rip into diehard fans - most of whom have been going to the shows and have been coming to this forum to support the band for years! I suggest you get a reality check before reaming the fans again.

[EccoTides]

So the most important fans are casual fans who at this point probably don't really care all that much about GN'R anymore? The hardcore fans mean nothing. This is offensive on many levels.

We'll cater to the casaul fan who desires the old hits, despite the fact that Axl is on the verge of launching an album that may define his career. There was a time when Chinese Democracy was supposed to be momentus. The way the band is playing their cards now it hardly seems significant; this to me is baffling. Why do a new album tour when you have nothing to support it? Is that not a valid question? Or is it valid only if it's asked by a casaul fan?

From the outside we are surely missing a lot of information, but it doesn't look to me like this ship has any real direction. It has been that way for many years now. They play the MTV VMAs back in 2002 and despite Axl's hit and miss singing the excitement is off the charts, but there is no album in sight. When there is an album in sight Axl does an introduction for a pretty lame band. Whoop dee doo. They got it backwards. You sing on the VMA's when you've got an album coming out, not four years before.

Guns has been on tour now for a fairly long stretch; when they do finally announce their return to the world it will lose some of it's impact because guess what - the press that is getting out there is that the band is playing and that it's a nostalgia act. You see it right there in the Jacksonville review. The focus shouldn't be on AFD, it should be on Chi Dem. They are undermining the new album IMO by playing for six months primarily old stuff and not even talking about the new album. The band is in the process of being pigeonholed and they are doing it to themselves.

Anyways, I get your main point. Economically speaking, casual fans make up more of the ticket sales and album sales than hardcore fans make up. Fine. Of course you'll cater to them, it's Business 101. Doesn't mean you bash your hardcore fans. Alienating them is unnecessary. It would have been a lot more constructive to explain why the setlist has been so constant and focused on AFD, and to give us a hint at when new songs would appear.

But I think you're wrong about them not giving a shit about the whiners (at least after the outcry on this board and on others). Del's letter was taken down - so apparently they had second thoughts about pissing off the Internet whiners, maybe realizing that there was nothing to be gained from doing that.

Excellent post - Exactly how I feel about this situation.

[wasted]

People still want to go to the shows and thats why they can do this. It's an ego trip for sure.

To me Axl and the GNR camp in general get more arrogant as their star rises.

It happened back in the day too. As the tour progresses Axl gets more and more demanding and more and more pissed off.

Whether it's the drugs and the parties but very soon they living for the parties and the high life and that is in turn why the set list remains UNchanged.

It's just another crowd, another show, another all night party.

[KBear]

First, I found it rather lame that he would defend GNR being constantly late by claiming that "This is supposed to be an all night party. When the f*ck did rock n' roll -- and the last time I checked rock music was supposed to be a non-conformist, rebellious, art form -- get a Flavor Flav-sized time clock wrapped around its neck like a hangman's noose? Rebellion and punctuality do not go hand in hand and for those of you too young to remember, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin rarely went on before midnight in their hey day.... ".... Well, the Stones don't show up hours late today, Del. They respect their aging fans, who they recognize have jobs to do in order to pay the rent. And sorry to point out the obvious Del - but GNR are NOT rebel rocker kids still in their heyday. They don't have an album on top of the billboard charts -- they're a band of grown men trying to make a comeback. And I just don't think it's smart for the band to disrespect the diehard fans who have struck with them all these years by showing up late at virtually every single show.

One thing I just realized was Del's claim that this is supposed to be an all-night party. That's funny. What show did Guns play for 10 hours straight? Man, I would love to get a copy of that. The only shows I've seen are like 2 hours long. I feel cheated.

Or does he mean the party is waiting for hours for the band to arrive? Yeah, it's always fun paying for the right to sit/stand in a cramped stadium for hours on end.

In truth the waiting doesn't bother me much, but the claim of a concert being an all-night party is pretty silly.

[Elnombre]

First, I found it rather lame that he would defend GNR being constantly late by claiming that "This is supposed to be an all night party. When the f*ck did rock n' roll -- and the last time I checked rock music was supposed to be a non-conformist, rebellious, art form -- get a Flavor Flav-sized time clock wrapped around its neck like a hangman's noose? Rebellion and punctuality do not go hand in hand and for those of you too young to remember, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin rarely went on before midnight in their hey day.... ".... Well, the Stones don't show up hours late today, Del. They respect their aging fans, who they recognize have jobs to do in order to pay the rent. And sorry to point out the obvious Del - but GNR are NOT rebel rocker kids still in their heyday. They don't have an album on top of the billboard charts -- they're a band of grown men trying to make a comeback. And I just don't think it's smart for the band to disrespect the diehard fans who have struck with them all these years by showing up late at virtually every single show.

One thing I just realized was Del's claim that this is supposed to be an all-night party. That's funny. What show did Guns play for 10 hours straight? Man, I would love to get a copy of that. The only shows I've seen are like 2 hours long. I feel cheated.

Or does he mean the party is waiting for hours for the band to arrive? Yeah, it's always fun paying for the right to sit/stand in a cramped stadium for hours on end.

In truth the waiting doesn't bother me much, but the claim of a concert being an all-night party is pretty silly.

It's an all night party for him because he's backstage being paid to drink and hang out, while not actually having a purpose for being there.

[wasted]

It's all about them. It's there all night party. The fans are just there to stump the cash up to glimpse at these guys from hundred metres. It's after they come off stage the real party starts. For everyone else its back to bed and up at 5am to haul through 6 lanes of traffic.

[Mr Estranged]

Let's try this again...

First, he was talking about the whiners at bb's. You fuckers are doing the same thing that the media does... mis-quoting Del's words.

Here's what they taught you that math in school for...

The highest read thread here is 12,000 people. No more than 500 of them could be in Baltimore, MD.

If 400 of them go to a show with 13,000 people in the audience, that's only 3 percent of the crowd coming from this bb.

Also, he was talking about the WHINERS at these bb's. Which is, let's say, are actually 40 of the 400 people who go to the Baltimore show. That's 3-tenths of one percent.

So I'll say it FOR him, the whiners can go fuck themselves because if the Baltimore show lacks these 40 whiners, no one cares... and everybody else had a good time.

So the most important fans are casual fans who at this point probably don't really care all that much about GN'R anymore? The hardcore fans mean nothing. This is offensive on many levels.

We'll cater to the casaul fan who desires the old hits, despite the fact that Axl is on the verge of launching an album that may define his career. There was a time when Chinese Democracy was supposed to be momentus. The way the band is playing their cards now it hardly seems significant; this to me is baffling. Why do a new album tour when you have nothing to support it? Is that not a valid question? Or is it valid only if it's asked by a casaul fan?

From the outside we are surely missing a lot of information, but it doesn't look to me like this ship has any real direction. It has been that way for many years now. They play the MTV VMAs back in 2002 and despite Axl's hit and miss singing the excitement is off the charts, but there is no album in sight. When there is an album in sight Axl does an introduction for a pretty lame band. Whoop dee doo. They got it backwards. You sing on the VMA's when you've got an album coming out, not four years before.

Guns has been on tour now for a fairly long stretch; when they do finally announce their return to the world it will lose some of it's impact because guess what - the press that is getting out there is that the band is playing and that it's a nostalgia act. You see it right there in the Jacksonville review. The focus shouldn't be on AFD, it should be on Chi Dem. They are undermining the new album IMO by playing for six months primarily old stuff and not even talking about the new album. The band is in the process of being pigeonholed and they are doing it to themselves.

Anyways, I get your main point. Economically speaking, casual fans make up more of the ticket sales and album sales than hardcore fans make up. Fine. Of course you'll cater to them, it's Business 101. Doesn't mean you bash your hardcore fans. Alienating them is unnecessary. It would have been a lot more constructive to explain why the setlist has been so constant and focused on AFD, and to give us a hint at when new songs would appear.

But I think you're wrong about them not giving a shit about the whiners (at least after the outcry on this board and on others). Del's letter was taken down - so apparently they had second thoughts about pissing off the Internet whiners, maybe realizing that there was nothing to be gained from doing that.

Oh yeah, I'd be remiss if I forgot to mention the following line almost made me bust a gut laughing.

Del can do a super-triple-summersault and disappear into his own sphincter for all I care.

as always a brillant post, k bear

[blackvelvet]

I didn't vote in this poll - but I would like to add a few comments.

First, I've always admired Del. I think he's a great writer (judging from his rock columns in the past and his "Language of Fear" book), and normally really enjoy reading his work. *I think he forgot to use spell checker in this particular column, but that's beside the point.*

While I agree with the general spirit of the article, I disagree with some of the points he made.

First, I found it rather lame that he would defend GNR being constantly late by claiming that "This is supposed to be an all night party. When the f*ck did rock n' roll -- and the last time I checked rock music was supposed to be a non-conformist, rebellious, art form -- get a Flavor Flav-sized time clock wrapped around its neck like a hangman's noose? Rebellion and punctuality do not go hand in hand and for those of you too young to remember, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin rarely went on before midnight in their hey day.... ".... Well, the Stones don't show up hours late today, Del. They respect their aging fans, who they recognize have jobs to do in order to pay the rent. And sorry to point out the obvious Del - but GNR are NOT rebel rocker kids still in their heyday. They don't have an album on top of the billboard charts -- they're a band of grown men trying to make a comeback. And I just don't think it's smart for the band to disrespect the diehard fans who have struck with them all these years by showing up late at virtually every single show.

While it doesn't bother me personally - I know it's very difficult for fans who have jobs, wives and children at home that they have to think about when taking time off work to see a GNR show. I think the band needs to be more respectful and cognizant of this. This isn't a tough concept to grasp.

Second, Del says "a rock band has to do certain things in order to be prepared to hit the stage." Yes, this is a true. And it's up to the band members to get to the venue early enough in order to prepare themselves. And if that means coming home from a party at 3am instead of 5am in order for them to get to the venue earlier, then so be it. This is their responsbility - and one that should be taken seriously.

I think it's time you and your pals plugged into the real world - and discovered the way real people work and live their lives - rather than living in a sheltered, fan-paid, fantasy party subsidized by the fans. Just my 2 cents. Sorry to be harsh - but I find it really arrogant and disrespectful for you to rip into diehard fans - most of whom have been going to the shows and have been coming to this forum to support the band for years! I suggest you get a reality check before reaming the fans again.

Hey Madison tell me - youve seen NIN live right? Did they ever come on late? Because its funny - I think this whole lateness thing is all Axl and not the other band members. He did with the old band and now this one. But its funny how his friend is saying its everyone in the band who contributes to taking to the stage late.

[sweetness]

It didnt offend me, I just thought it was pretty dumb

[wasted]

Same difference. It was very dumb. It's on their internet site and he's saying fuck you internet users get a life. It's hilarious.

[sweetness]

Same difference. It was very dumb. It's on their internet site and he's saying fuck you internet users get a life. It's hilarious.

The whole situation with Guns N' Roses right now is a fucking mess, I dont think the manageing team or whatever the fuck you call them know what their doing. You dont post shit like that on the bands official site.

They think the fans dont know shit, maybe instead of bitching about them, they can listen to them.

[discoduckglue]

Whilst many of the fan boys an overly negative whingers are cringeingly embarrassing ( especially the fanboys)

It has become more and more obvious that this band isnt about moving on and views the fans as a payday, nothing more.

Back in 91 when Vince Neil said he was going to belt Axl because he was sick of seeing this little prima donna treating his fans like shit I didnt quite get it. I do now however, and I personally wish someone had of just staood up to the little prick years ago.

As for Del James and Axl's other hangers on.....well, Axl obviously isnt a man that is big enough to have friends with independant thoughts. Even back in the illussion period Id read articles written by this arse licker and they were so ridiculously gushing about how wonderful Axl is it was sickening.

At least we know why Axl loves Bas so much....yeh another brown noser.

GNR stopped being about grittiness and real life years ago.

Hey Del, go wake up at 5:40 and travel to work via traffic jams, and spend 8 hrs on a production line you chump.......you do that after waiting for that arsehole to come on stage, you do that for 1 week, then call me a whinger you pathetic name dropper.

Did you hear that??

[wasted]

Are the other forums taking it in the ass. I bet HTGTH is loving it up the corn shooter?

[angel of music]

Del James seems to live in the past.. he says it's not rock n' roll to complain about the shows starting late.. well most fans now are grown up, have lifes and kids, didn't he think of that?

I mean, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin in their heyday??? hello, that was zillions of years ago! what a fuckin' lame example

times have changed!!! people have a right to complain

I know I'd definitely choose to stay at the concert and say fuck you to all the other things next day if it was me, but you can't expect everyone to agree with that, and it's not less rock n' roll just because you have a family and can't afford to miss work to see GN'R..

I mean, WTF IS ROCK N' ROLL anyway??? they keep using this lame excuse to justify their poor arguments.. but it's flawed, who says what's rock n' roll and what's not? I could say lots of Axl's antics are not rock n' roll these days for that matter

I personally didn't take offense, cuz you can't really take offense in such a close minded article like this, it just shows how one sided his version of things is, he is missing the whole picture here if he really thinks the REAL fans are those who are at the concerts.. just because they don't whine like people online.. well they don't whine because they don't give a shit about the band.. ever thought of that?

[Guest Edward Rose]

Maybe those people (Duff, Slash, etc.) aren't in the band for a reason. Del even TRIED to explain to you that those guys were never in it for the long haul. I happen to know for a FACT that Ron and Frank ARE in it for the long haul and are devoted to Gn'R fans, and Axl rewarded them with album tracks... which is how I was able to guess it would happen.

This project is big... --- I should stop talking now because it'll just give the fuckers here a reason to start calling me crazy... not that they don't already HAVE a few good reasons

Edited November 2, 2006 by Edward Rose

[shootingstar]

I just don't like the "my way or stay home" attitude Axl has. It's no big deal to me if he wants to go on late, just make sure everyone knows. Not everyone checks the board and knows the full Axl Rose going on late history. Also, if you want a bigger turn out ( which I would), maybe not go on so late during weeknights if everyone is informed.

I mean, this could happen. Axl goes on late everynight. People don't go to the late shows because they have stuff to do the next morning (like work). Turnout sucks, Axl gets his feelings hurt and the plug is pulled. Who's fault is that? Yeah, it's Axl's fault.

Also, the whole "it's rock and roll" thing and then talking about yoga and chiropractors is silly. You can't get your chiropractic adjustment during the day? You can't start your yoga at 6 or 7, but it has to be at 9 or 10?

Axl would be scrubbing toilets if not for the fans, even those who whine on the board (myself included), who have all the records (several copies in many cases), shirts, posters, buying concert tickets. So it's not all that ridiculous for the fans to want to be treated nicely.

People talk on here from time to time about Axl not owing anything to the fans. Well, the fans don't owe anything to Axl. So maybe he should behave with some common courtesy like the rest of all the bands in the world do. The fans run the show, not the performer. If you can't handle that, you are in the wrong business.

Like I said in another post.. I´ve seen both Maiden and stones. Both were as late, or even more late then Guns. Go to their fanboards and see if you can find 8x20 pages topics about an hour late attendence.. I don´t think so... It´s VERY common that rockbands go at stage an hour late or more.

So, you have job next day?? I travelled with train 14 hours to see maiden. No sleep at all. Then a hit the arena a few hours later when the train stopped. Saw the one hour late concert, went out got drunk, put my ass on the train and went home.. When I finally arrived I went straight to work with the same clothes I had at the concert.. And u whining about an hour less sleep because of Axl!!!?

[Chris 55]

At least we know why Axl loves Bas so much....yeh another brown noser.

Yeah that was REAL OBVIOUS during the Eddie Trunk video. He bashes The Offspring to get on Axl's good side and then brags that he has the "It's So Easy" video which he thinks no one has but in reality, it's VERY easy to find on youtube.

[shootingstar]

edward rose -- > wow, you are really trying hard to make a point, eh?

PS del's a douche bag (it's like the word was made for him) for saying something like that about message boards.

His point is that del pointed out 3-tenths of one percent on the messagebord users. Not ALL the users. We are talking about a a small, small part of an minority. But u just can´t admit it to yourself because that would give u less substance to whine about it, which seems VERY importand to you. Still don´t get it? U don´t want to or Edwards theory about that 12 year old shit is correct. And u call people like us Axl ass kissers? Guess what? I kiss anybodys ass as long as it logical.. In this case it is. It just happened to be Axl´s.

EDIT* It may be the coincidence that´s abut Axl´s ass. I mean, tis is a GNR message board. It could have been ANYBODY.. Bill Clinton, Barbara Streisand especally in the GUNS N ROSES- DISCUSSION AND NEWS SECTION.

Edited November 2, 2006 by shootingstar

[Kesseli]

you people are so naive.

[aussie_axl]

I was offended by what he wrote and have been in tears all morning. How dare he write what he wrote?!? Axl owes me a new album and I want it now! NOW NOW NOW! Woops, I just crapped my diaper!

HA thats rich coming from you, you don't wanna admit it but your a fucking hipacrite, you bitch with the best big fella. like you didn't get your back up lol, you got no right to take the high ground, hey rocket i just call bullshit when theres bullshit.

and yeah i think del did piss me off abit, but i think i misunderstood what he said, so looking back on it, i'm cool with what he said.