So What Happened?

[Old School]

You guys do realize you dont have the slightest fucking idea what you are talking about right? I mean really this is all speculation based on nothing. Just thought I would remind you guys of that.

Is your solution we just shut our mouths and not debate and speculate? Is this not a forum? Is it not true that we have nothing to do BUT try and speculate and make some sense of the situation given how there is absolutely no communication with the fans and we've been seemingly told in very vague ways that the album would be released this year and here it is December with no hint that the release is imminent? The negativity, the endless guessing and speculation and all these things that piss you off to no end, Gunzen, is brought on by and is the result of Axl. Everytime I see you get pissed off at people about this it only shows me that in reality your just pissed off at Axl as well in an indirect way.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Old School

[uzeurilluzion]

You guys do realize you dont have the slightest fucking idea what you are talking about right? I mean really this is all speculation based on nothing. Just thought I would remind you guys of that.

Is your solution we just shut our mouths and not debate and speculate? Is this not a forum? Is it not true that we have nothing to do BUT try and speculate and make some sense of the situation given how there is absolutely no communication with the fans and we've been seemingly told in very vague ways that the album would be released this year and here it is December with no hint that the release is imminent? The negativity, the endless guessing and speculation and all these things that piss you off to no end, Gunzen, is brought on by and is the result of Axl. Everytime I see you get pissed off at people about this it only shows me that in reality your just pissed off at Axl as well in an indirect way.

Agreed, no need to diss this thread......this is actually the best one I've seen in months............Oh wait the Madison vs Cherrybomb was a good read too lol.......but thats beside the point, this is a very good thread and to me is the epidemy of what a forum should be like.

[tainted_conscience]

i think that the best is yet to come, release date wise.

i wouldnt be surprised if CD is in stores tomorrow if i were to walk into the local sam goody

[shootingstar]

Nuff said: Leaks promote tour> Tour promotes CD> CD release!

If this were the case any normal human being would say AT EVERY SHOW "hey, this is from the upcoming album" or "thanks for coming, look for our new album soon".

he is saying nothing. that makes NO sense if he's promoting the album with the tour.

Yeah, thats correct. I agree. But things maby changed after the tour was booked. I only speculated that this was the primary reason. Think of it, and I know u do But things were changed, appearently it has. We have a tour and release statements etc. and then it all turn dead and silent, Why?

And Kaneda, I don´t think u have understand this discussion at all. No one try to find excuses for Axl. We try to find an proper explenation. We all know that it´s 90% Axls fault that it has taken this long, but he made it clear that this would take time. This discussion isn´t about why it have tooked him 1X years to make this album, we discuss what happening now. The current situation.

Edited December 7, 2006 by shootingstar

[wasted]

Very inneresting post. I can see how Universal would want to promote this album soundly. And there could even be some friction between Axl and these guys, like there might even be some big swinging dick over that that hates Axl enough to decide no now you wait. This is the sort of shit that sells music magazines though. However frustrating it is. I think the Big Meh reaction is the one he fears most after all this time. Slash and the boys revel in their mediocrity to some extent but Axl really hasn't had an album truly flop. I don't think it will. Even he sticks in the vein of leaks and does a few 20 minute epics and some S&M My World type of things. Just hit AFD and UYI marks and add some Better and ridiculous stuff and it's a triple album it will sell. Let's hope Apocaplypse Now not Heaven's Gate.

[pepsicoca]

Slash and the boys revel in their mediocrity to some extent but Axl really hasn't had an album truly flop.

Get your head out of Axl's ass. The worst GNR songs have been written by Axl : "My World", "Silkworms" or "Oh my god". These songs were not even mediocre, they were terrible.

[wasted]

er I was just saying that Slash and others are more down to earth about the recording. They don't think there is such thing as perfect and are pretty happy to just do rock n roll it doesnt have to be the most staggering new invention or sell a ton of copies. Izzy just does his stuff in two weeks and in general it has failed commercially. Thing is you did remember those songs but I can't say I remember all of 117 Degrees but I enjoyed it. I stand by what I said Slash and other members don't mind that much about the studio recordings. They have a method and don't over do it.

[ssiscool]

Slash and the boys revel in their mediocrity to some extent but Axl really hasn't had an album truly flop.

Get your head out of Axl's ass. The worst GNR songs have been written by Axl : "My World", "Silkworms" or "Oh my god". These songs were not even mediocre, they were terrible.

silkworms wasnt written by Axl. i do belive it was Dizzy. (not 100% certain)

[Spoon87]

So, ah, any news about CD today?

.

.

.

No?

[Lukinx]

So, ah, any news about CD today?

Well, I know this guy who knows this guy who knows this guy who has a girlfriend who is the sister of the cousin of a guy married to the mother of this big shot at HMV and he told her that he has got "Chinese Democracy" coming in on December 14th to be sold on December 19th! :xmasschef2:

(j o k i n g )

Edited December 7, 2006 by Lukinx

[ChineseDemocracy]

Everyone knows nothing really ever goes as planned in the world of GnR...But that being said, it is clear that SOMETHING was planned for 2006...(and this is all on the assumption that nothing is happening this year) First, Merck makes the public statement regarding the number of Tuesday thing-not something that someone in the PR biz would say unless there was something there to back it up...Next, we have the Harley Ad....Clearly, there was a business agreement in place between Guns and Harley Davidson to use GnR music, including Better, in HD ad campaigns....As we have seen, Better WAS AT ONE TIME in an HD ad...Which means GnR had to grant permission...which is something they NEVER would have done unless they were planning to use Better as the first single...There is simply no other reason to use a Guns n Roses track only die-hards know in a national ad campaign unless it was to be used in promotion of a new single/album...If the only purpose of the ad was to sell Motorcycles, then it actually makes MORE sense to use Paradise City or Jungle or one of the *signature* Guns tracks...Not one to which very few people actually know the words...

So, considering all that, what the fuck happened? Lets put the screwing over the die-hards aside for a sec cause, lets be honest, they dont give a fuck about the so-called "die hards." This is first and foremost a business: we dont represent the demographic they are "gunning" for...We are all gonna buy CD if/when it comes out...We'll buy over-priced tickets to shows, etc...No-what Guns need/want is the record buying public who DONT know about the new songs, cant name everyone in the new lineup, etc...And they need a business plan to accomplish that....And it seems like, to some degree or another, that kind of plan was starting to come together....

But now, we have silence...Ads pulled/postponed...Radio DJ rumors dead...no new updates from the GnR camp...A pulled Del James article...Houston: we have a problem.

My question is: WHATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM? And honestly, at this point, how could it not be easily fixed?

I think its not as simple as 'Axl is holding the album' or 'Universal wont release the album' I think there is obviously something in between, maybe with distribution, or promotion or whatever the case. I dont think its quite a legal problem, more than it is just a lack of one party pulling their weight, have it be Axl/Universal/someone else.

I think Universal does have the album, and I do think Axl is done. Now I think its all about money and the third parties getting their shit together.

[Let And Let Live]

And to think we were so close in 2002

Regarding the work in progress (CD) Axl commented as follows;

“I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again. There are a lot of new songs that were just done in the last year that we feel that ‘okay, well that bumps a lot of stuff off the previous list but it's time to stop that now and wrap up the baby. It feels right, the timing, and a lot of things. We’ve sorted it down to what songs are on the record. What the sequence of the songs is. The album cover art is ready"

but then he did also say this...

"If you're waiting...don't. Live your life. That's your responsibility not mine. If it were not to happen you won't have missed a thing. If in fact it does you might get something that works for you, in the end you could win on this either way. But if you're really into waiting try holding your breath for Jesus cause I hear the payoff may be that much greater".

so he were are some 4+ years on and still we still aint got a clue as to what the latest developments are..

so what happened? - well i know what didn't happen....

Edited December 7, 2006 by Let And Let Live

[GabrielsChains]

I think its not as simple as 'Axl is holding the album' or 'Universal wont release the album' I think there is obviously something in between, maybe with distribution, or promotion or whatever the case. I dont think its quite a legal problem, more than it is just a lack of one party pulling their weight, have it be Axl/Universal/someone else.

I think Universal does have the album, and I do think Axl is done. Now I think its all about money and the third parties getting their shit together.

In all fairness, the media has been floating "what the hell, Axl?" stories for months now, and the band is in the midst of a tour. If the album had been done and delivered, somebody would have said something; these things aren't as lock-lipped and air-tight as we'd all like to believe.

The only time things CAN be this under the radar, is when they are still under Axl's control -- as in, Before He's Turned In The Record.

Universal/Geffen/Interscope/whomever would be simply losing money by not allowing Axl to release the record. If they can release GH1 (and prepping GH2 and a DVD), there are clearly not legal issues pertaining to the old band's catalog, and Axl has legal rights for the band's name. The only logical conclusion is that the holdup is, as has been the case for the last 10 years, W. Axl Rose.

In all honesty, it really does make the most sense that there is no record and has been no record all along; that it's all been a cash grab tour. I don't know why this is so shocking to everyone; clearly this is EXACTLY what he did in 2002 -- there was no record ready to go then; why is everybody convinced this time is any different?

Don't get me wrong; I saw them at Hammerstein and they were FANTASTIC -- but if there was a record, we'd know about it, and would be hearing updates about it. Harley Davidson agreeing to piggyback a new GNR song as part of their licensing agreement for "Paradise City" doesn't prove anything beyond Axl and co. were the ones behind the leaks earlier this year. Which, in turns, suports the theory that they were just tryin to build hype for a cash grab tour.

I hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't think I'm going to be.

[AxlCorp]

GnR came back from a Euro tour and booked some U.S. tours wanting to take advantage of the positive press. GnR probably thought they could finish up the album in between...and even cancelled some dates to give themselves more time on finishing things up. During that week, something happened.

a - they realized they needed alot more work before the release (Axl's perfectionism taking the best of him)

b - universal began to flex their muscles and threatened GnR not to release it until next year.

From what we've heard lately, what is more probable? To me, I have to think that it's Universal. If it was something else, we would know already that it wasn't coming out. The only reason that we haven't heard anything from anyone is that each party is waiting for the other party to say something that might deflect blame. For example, Axl comes out and says, I'm not ready, that gives way to Universal not looking bad. Universal coming out and saying - we pressured GnR, makes Axl look good. No one wants to instigate a full out war ....yet

[vicious]

obviously they lied to us again. can we stop having all these threads and just wait like we always did? you're ruining this section

[AxlCorp]

obviously they lied to us again. can we stop having all these threads and just wait like we always did? you're ruining this section

huh? all you want is silence?

[Sweetest_Child]

Ok

ive never said much about my personal life but i will spew a few things out, i work for a radio station in hamilton, Ont (canada) its not a rock station but our sister station is, we have connections to universal records and we get updates on releases, whats going ons etc... , there has been NOTHING said about CD ever in these, so... and all the new releases come out in this or any info about releases etc. NOW... i think axl is pissing them off (intentionally or unintentially i dont know) and just release it, and universal wont let a 13 million dollar album do that, with out some huge promotion backing it up. Hence why it may of already started to happen with record stores hearing things, websites getting updates that it was coming out, with a non promoted sent album to them to just sell, it happens all the time with small artists. Universal found out and put a stop to the album just coming out, they want something out of their investment and said your not releasing a album without promoting it, hence why we are at a possible standstill. I also have lots of friends at record stores, managers etc.. nothing has been slated for a release at all people i know, with shipping taking its time, i belive there is NO time left to do this even if it was a straight released album, no promo. Shipping it out to all locations by the 19th or 26th is just too close. Plus someone from somehwhere would have heard something, about either pressing, p.o.p instore promo (if there is any), shippers, no matter how hush it would have been, someone would have said something with some sort of proof. I dont think it is axl this time, i think this is universal wanting something out of their investment, and something with no promo at all might not sell as much as it would with a full promo campaign.

I give a 80% chance the album will not be out this year, as promised.

[droezle]

Nuff said: Leaks promote tour> Tour promotes CD> CD release!

I have my doubts about your oppinion. I think personal that this tour is meanted to pay some mony back to Universal. They (Universal) supported Axl for many years with some hard cash to record the album. First the tour to pay some mony back and after that (hopefully) the album. I realy hope that this don't end in a legal battle between Axl and Universal.

[Sweetest_Child]

im so fixstated on the intention to release an album with out any promotion

[AxlCorp]

Ok

ive never said much about my personal life but i will spew a few things out, i work for a radio station in hamilton, Ont (canada) its not a rock station but our sister station is, we have connections to universal records and we get updates on releases, whats going ons etc... , there has been NOTHING said about CD ever in these, so... and all the new releases come out in this or any info about releases etc. NOW... i think axl is pissing them off (intentionally or unintentially i dont know) and just release it, and universal wont let a 13 million dollar album do that, with out some huge promotion backing it up. Hence why it may of already started to happen with record stores hearing things, websites getting updates that it was coming out, with a non promoted sent album to them to just sell, it happens all the time with small artists. Universal found out and put a stop to the album just coming out, they want something out of their investment and said your not releasing a album without promoting it, hence why we are at a possible standstill. I also have lots of friends at record stores, managers etc.. nothing has been slated for a release at all people i know, with shipping taking its time, i belive there is NO time left to do this even if it was a straight released album, no promo. Shipping it out to all locations by the 19th or 26th is just too close. Plus someone from somehwhere would have heard something, about either pressing, p.o.p instore promo (if there is any), shippers, no matter how hush it would have been, someone would have said something with some sort of proof. I dont think it is axl this time, i think this is universal wanting something out of their investment, and something with no promo at all might not sell as much as it would with a full promo campaign.

I give a 80% chance the album will not be out this year, as promised.

Hey, I lived in Hamilton. This is another nail in the coffin. I believe that the most probable situation is the one you describe above.

[pickles!!]

Nuff said: Leaks promote tour> Tour promotes CD> CD release!

I have my doubts about your oppinion. I think personal that this tour is meanted to pay some mony back to Universal. They (Universal) supported Axl for many years with some hard cash to record the album. First the tour to pay some mony back and after that (hopefully) the album. I realy hope that this don't end in a legal battle between Axl and Universal.

Doubt it very much. Im sure Axl could just write them a check if he wanted to. You guys are putting way to much blame on Universal, not enuff on the person who has all the answers W. Axl Rose. It'll come out on his terms, or it never will, it's that simple.

[wasted]

again I still don't know what this promotion people speak of. Like what? This is going to sell with or without promotion. In the long term as well.

[droezle]

Nuff said: Leaks promote tour> Tour promotes CD> CD release!

I have my doubts about your oppinion. I think personal that this tour is meanted to pay some mony back to Universal. They (Universal) supported Axl for many years with some hard cash to record the album. First the tour to pay some mony back and after that (hopefully) the album. I realy hope that this don't end in a legal battle between Axl and Universal.

Doubt it very much. Im sure Axl could just write them a check if he wanted to. You guys are putting way to much blame on Universal, not enuff on the person who has all the answers W. Axl Rose. It'll come out on his terms, or it never will, it's that simple.

Do you realy think that Axl can write a 15 million$ check?? I don't think so. The pay back has to come from somewhere and i guess that this tour is 1 of the first possible solutions to do that. Sure,Universal isn't the only 1 to blame for but as long we don't have an statement by the band we only can guess and debate what the possible delay for the album is.

[wasted]

It sort of goes back to what Axl said in Illusion era, everything they do like videos and shows comes out of the bands end. It's sort of a debt they owe until they pay it off. So the album has to make money and if it doesn't Axl could lose a lot of money. So he waits some more, cos it's getting close to the last chance. shows seem like a much less risky way to make some money.

[Sjakalen]

After the sucsessful European tour things has gione bad for GNR in the states. Half emty arenas, not much publicity in media, the publicity they got has been bad overall. And iof course Chinese Democracy look like it not will come out this year either....

Axl had promised it, and he has been saying that couple of times. My opinion on Axl has change the last months. Hes a clown!