Help me on Two Robin Finck and GnR issues

[Guest Apollo]

A certain favorite poster friend of mine will think I'm picking on her . . . but I'm truly not. She just coincidently voiced an opinion on both of these issues.

SO, let me know what you think and where you fall on these two issues.

I've posted topics on both of these things and gotten complete OPPOSITE responses from people, which very much amused me. So where do you fall?

1. Some people say that Finck and the rest of the band has shown loyalty by sticking with Axl for so long, without an album coming out. BUT, some people are criticizing them for doing the same thing - saying a true artist would have left by now, a true artist wouldn't wait around. So which is it???? Do we reward Finck for his loyality??? Or is it a bad thing that he's been loyal and willing to stick with Axl?

2. One person said that while the new songs and Finck maybe pleasing to old GNR fans, THAT wasn't good enough. They had to be pleasing and acceptable to the entire rock music audience and not just die-hard GnR fans. THEN in another post, somebody said that all thats important is producing music FOR GnR fans, and that it should make no difference what the REST of the rock world thought!

BASICALLY what this means is that NO MATTER WHAT AXL and ROBIN and the new band does ---- a portion of people on here are going to rip them apart. I guess it's sort of funny, in a sad way.

My views?

I think Robin and the rest of the band should be congratulated and respected for their loyality to Axl.

I think that the band should produce songs that are based for long-time GnR fans, but also have an appeal to the wider rock audience.

I also think the people that constantly rip Axl and Robin and the new band apart, but defend themselves by also saying how they are big Axl fans . . . . are just jealous and despondant at the fact that they know that when Chinese Democracy is released, it's gonna BLOW AWAY anything Velvet Revolver has put out, or will put out.

Slash is awesome. But without Axl, he's just a great guitar player in a decent band.

Axl is awesome. But without Slash, he's still the singer in what will probably be the most important rock album of 2007.

Slash is Scottie Pippen to Axl's Michael Jordan.

[da_pope]

GN'R Paycheck > Paycheck for playing occasional club shows with bands no ones ever heard of.

Thats why they stick around.

[Guest Apollo]

GN'R Paycheck > Paycheck for playing occasional club shows with bands no ones ever heard of.

Thats why they stick around.

Look, we all understand that your in love with Slash and dislike anything associated with the new GnR. That's fine. Feel free to live in the past.

I realize that most of your comments are meant to amuse us or to be humorous. But sometimes they get a little ridiculous.

"Club shows with bands no ones ever heard of" . . . . .

Hhhhm, current band members have played in:

Primus

Nine Inch Nails

The Replacements

Psychadelic Furs

Tool

And ya, DIZZY even appeared on It's Five O'Clock Somewhere by Slash's Snakepit!!!!

So sir, I wouldn't brag that those are bands that YOU HAVE never heard of. Because if you haven't, you just lost any music credibility that you may have had on the forum!!!

[da_pope]

Look, we all understand that your in love with Slash and dislike anything associated with the new GnR. That's fine. Feel free to live in the past.

I realize that most of your comments are meant to amuse us or to be humorous. But sometimes they get a little ridiculous.

"Club shows with bands no ones ever heard of" . . . . .

Hhhhm, current band members have played in:

Primus

Nine Inch Nails

The Replacements

Psychadelic Furs

Tool

And ya, DIZZY even appeared on It's Five O'Clock Somewhere by Slash's Snakepit!!!!

So sir, I wouldn't brag that those are bands that YOU HAVE never heard of. Because if you haven't, you just lost any music credibility that you may have had on the forum!!!

LOL Tool?

You count Pittman as a member of Tool?

Also Robin didn't write anything for NIN so that doesn't really count.

So you take out those two bands and the rest are yes, playing clubs and are low-mid acts at festivals.

[Patience 4 Axl]

1. Some people say that Finck and the rest of the band has shown loyalty by sticking with Axl for so long, without an album coming out. BUT, some people are criticizing them for doing the same thing - saying a true artist would have left by now, a true artist wouldn't wait around. So which is it???? Do we reward Finck for his loyality??? Or is it a bad thing that he's been loyal and willing to stick with Axl?

Did Robin stick with Axl by choice, or by default?

Dizzy at least kept himself busy with HnB, Tommy put out a solo album and toured, Fortus was busy making a baby and Brain ran a drum clinic and made an appearance on The Apprentice. Even Axl did Grand Theft Auto. Where was Robin? Sitting at home being loyal? Or maybe, just maybe, there are no other opportunities available to him. You think they're banging on his door asking him to perform Jimi Hendrix classics, lend his talent on a movie soundtrack or collaborate on other artists projects? Isn't that what musicians do...make music? Robin did nothing for 4 years and you equate that to being loyal? Does that mean Tommy, Dizzy aren't loyal? None of these side projects were even a blip on the radar screen. None of them come close to performing under the GnR name in front of 20,000 people at MSG. They can only do that with Axl. If you want to consider that loyalty, then so be it. It sounds more like reality to me.

[bax]

GN'R Paycheck > Paycheck for playing occasional club shows with bands no ones ever heard of.

Thats why they stick around.

Bingo

[moreblack]

Always finding new ways to have a dig at the former members eh?

well, you keep at it... But those guys did something without Axl OR the GNR name. And they're still out there entertaining the masses and rocking their asses off.

These new guys you love so much? mark my words, they will be nothing without Axl or the GNR name.

Edited December 28, 2006 by moreblack

[Dead Flower]

I also think the people that constantly rip Axl and Robin and the new band apart, but defend themselves by also saying how they are big Axl fans . . . . are just jealous and despondant at the fact that they know that when Chinese Democracy is released, it's gonna BLOW AWAY anything Velvet Revolver has put out, or will put out.

Slash is awesome. But without Axl, he's just a great guitar player in a decent band.

Axl is awesome. But without Slash, he's still the singer in what will probably be the most important rock album of 2007.

Slash is Scottie Pippen to Axl's Michael Jordan.

Jesus. Who are you trying to convince?

[moreblack]

We get it, Axl is God, he doesn't need anybody, he never has, he never will, none of the other guys ever did anything in GNR, it was all Axl, and they never will amount to shit outside GNR, Axl is up there with the Beatles and Elvis as the greatest ever, and GNR is the greatest band the world will ever see.

Yeah, ok...

[Guest Apollo]

Sigh. Just once it would be nice to get comments without having people's bias clouding their statements.

No MoreBlack. Axl isn't God. Everything he does isn't perfect. He's a flawed man, nobody ever said he wasn't. He apparently used to smack around his girlfriends. Rumor has it that he made one GF shit in a cat box. He's apparently very hard to work with.

Most people generally consider that GnR (whichever version it was - different drummers, different guitar players) had the potential to be one of the 4-5 best hard rock bands of ALL time. The one constant being Axl-Slash-Duff-and hopefully Izzy.

WHAT I'm saying, and it's just my opinion. Is that RIGHT NOW - Axl and Co. have the potential to be a WAY bigger band than Velvet Revolver does, and it's not even close. So moreblack . . . what do you say sir? Chinese Democracy or Liberated? Which album - without having heard either one - do YOU think has the potential to be the most important ROCK album of 2007?????

Pat-4-Axl . . . . wow. Pretty judgemental of you girl!!!! I'm not sure I would make the statements about other people's lives and careers you are . . . without actually personally knowing them.

Maybe you are correct. Maybe you have inside information the rest of us don't have!

Robin did nothing? Really, you know that? You talked to him? Maybe he's spent the last four years dedicating his life to the songs that the new GnR has put together? Maybe he's spent 10 hours a day, for the last four years, PRACTICING and improving his craft? Maybe he's been writing songs, lyrics, licks. Maybe Axl gave him the "rumored" 80-90 songs and said "Here you go. Partial parts to 85 songs - what can you come up with?"

And how do YOU know that he isn't being offered soundtracks and to work with other artists?? Just because Slash will play at a Taco Bell opening, doesn't mean that all other guitarists do the same thing. Maybe Robin has turned down offers, so he can devote 100% of his energy to Axl?

Course - Robin isn't your beloved Slash - so obviously he must just be sitting around jerking off to internet porn and playing Xbox360.

Course . . . . I could be wrong. Maybe YOU are friends with the members of both bands and know what goes on in their spare time.

Dapope. You miss the point, per usual. But whatever - that's your deal. Rip apart anything associated to Axl.

Bottom line - Fortus, Finck, Stintson, Brain and Bumble are ALL well respected musicians in the rock world. Like it or not - they are. And if you think that they wouldn't have successful careers without Axl . . . your just being ridiculous - per usual.

Moreblack at leasts makes valid points, even though we disagree on a lot of things. Pope, your posts are just ludicrious. Clearly you just make posts to try and piss off Axl fans. And M-black ---- think about this sir. Your sarcastic post about me thinking Axl is the Beattles and Elvis all wrapped in one . . . . Pope is MORE like that than I am for the other side! But because you agree with him - it doesn't bother you.

[madison]

Did Robin stick with Axl by choice, or by default?...

By choice. B)

Trent wanted him to come back to NIN, but Robin turned him down. That's why Trent was a bit bitter in his comments toward Robin.

[aussie_axl]

and a good choice it was, NIN is the wrost thing since police academy 7

[Christopher]

? Or maybe, just maybe, there are no other opportunities available to him. You think they're banging on his door asking him to perform Jimi Hendrix classics, lend his talent on a movie soundtrack or collaborate on other artists projects? Isn't that what musicians do...make music?

Didn't he and Bucket play on Ghosts of Mars soundtrack - Love seige?

Edit:

Ghosts of Mars IMDB

Yup, they're on the list.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Christopher

[War Of The Roses]

new gnr have better chemistry

and axl doesnt hang around with finck & co outside because he hates the spotlight,

he trys to avoid all the press,

GNR DO spend alot of time together like in recording schedules which are to take place in 2 weeks

[Chris Axl]

Look, we all understand that your in love with Slash and dislike anything associated with the new GnR. That's fine. Feel free to live in the past.

I realize that most of your comments are meant to amuse us or to be humorous. But sometimes they get a little ridiculous.

"Club shows with bands no ones ever heard of" . . . . .

Hhhhm, current band members have played in:

Primus

Nine Inch Nails

The Replacements

Psychadelic Furs

Tool

And ya, DIZZY even appeared on It's Five O'Clock Somewhere by Slash's Snakepit!!!!

So sir, I wouldn't brag that those are bands that YOU HAVE never heard of. Because if you haven't, you just lost any music credibility that you may have had on the forum!!!

Also Robin didn't write anything for NIN so that doesn't really count.

So you take out those two bands and the rest are yes, playing clubs and are low-mid acts at festivals.

I hope you know how stupid you just sounded.

DiD Gilby record anything with GN'R? no....would you call him a member of GN'R? yes.

enough said

[shootingstar]

Robin did nothing for 4 years and you equate that to being loyal?.

He maby worked on CD? Maby while Axl made that Grand Theft Auto thing he made the song BETTER?

None of them come close to performing under the GnR name in front of 20,000 people at MSG. They can only do that with Axl.

Correct. But they can also make an impact with CD so they next time can play in front of 40k thanks to them.

[artfromtex]

1. everybody loves money. so you can't discount the "sticking around for a paycheck" notion. but, i think these guys know that they are working with someone very special in Axl. that has to be exciting. i'm sure they get frustrated like we all do. hell, i bet Axl gets frustrated.

2. obviously everyone loves the old band. you wouldn't be here in the first place if it wasn't for them. also, i'm in the camp that would rather see the band i grew up with rather than Axl and his hired guns. but, this is the reality that i, as a fan, am left with. pissing and moaning about the old band won't change anything. these new guys do their job really well. i can't wait for CD to come out so that these guys have something to hang their hat on.

[Longpig]

to get back to the original question and to avoid all pointless arguing about new/old GnR....

1.) I think it shows loyalty, but he's obviously heard, written, played, recorded all the songs GnR have been working on and if they're as good as they're supposed to be, being loyal might not be that hard. We'll see with the new album!

2.) I hope that GnR are not writing "for" anybody. I hope they are trying to make the best songs they can. Writing should be from the heart/soul etc... not "I wonder what people who like AFD would like...." It's not about that. As soon as it is you fall on your arse.

LP

[shootingstar]

Always finding new ways to have a dig at the former members eh?

well, you keep at it... But those guys did something without Axl OR the GNR name. And they're still out there entertaining the masses and rocking their asses off.

These new guys you love so much? mark my words, they will be nothing without Axl or the GNR name.

I agree that they can´t be as great as they can with the GnR name. But it has nothing to do with how good or talented they are. It´s because of how the music scene is today.

Did you know that the music industry(rec companys) only make money on like 10% of signed artists?

What keep the industry alive is in general the big and established names like ABBA, Michael Jackson, Elvis, Queen, Rolling Stones, Beatles and yes, Guns n Roses.

Today music is not in general as much hard currency as it used to be. It has lost it´s hype. Now music is everywhere, on the net, commercials, radio etc.

For two decades ago people had to struggle a little to find great music they´d like which problably made them valued music more. Now the main stream tell us what to like. Television and music industry have created a program called IDOL. Now it is the artists that need to struggle and compete in public to reach the audience, not he opposite. People have stopped searching for great albums in record stores because radio plays those 15 songs that they/we are supposed to like.

THAT´S the MAJOR reason why they wouldn´t be anything without Axl or the GnR name.

Edited December 28, 2006 by shootingstar

[War Of The Roses]

Always finding new ways to have a dig at the former members eh?

well, you keep at it... But those guys did something without Axl OR the GNR name. And they're still out there entertaining the masses and rocking their asses off.

These new guys you love so much? mark my words, they will be nothing without Axl or the GNR name.

I agree that they can´t be as great as they can with the GnR name. But it has nothing to do with how good or talented they are. It´s because of how the music scene is today.

Did you know that the music industry(rec companys) only make money on like 10% of signed artists?

What keep the industry alive is in general the big and established names like ABBA, Michael Jackson, Elvis, Queen, Rolling Stones, Beatles and yes, Guns n Roses.

Today music is not in general as much hard currency as it used to be. It has lost it´s hype. Now music is everywhere, on the net, commercials, radio etc.

For two decades ago people had to struggle a little to find great music they´d like which problably made them valued music more. Now the main stream tell us what to like. Television and music industry have created a program called IDOL. Now it is the artists that need to struggle and compete in public to reach the audience, not he opposite. People have stopped searching for great albums in record stores because radio plays those 15 songs that they/we are supposed to like.

THAT´S the MAJOR reason why they wouldn´t be anything without Axl or the GnR name.

excellent post, couldnt have been put better,

man i wish i was born in the 60s, live through led zeppelin, ramones, the who, the beatles, original guns, queen

[moreblack]

half of those bands weren't even around in the 60s Snatcher dude.

And shootingstar, I get what you're saying. The industry as a whole is a much different beast than it used to be even 10 years ago. It's not royalties where artists make their most money anymore. It's tickets and merchandise sales, touring and appearance fees...

But regardless of all that, I think their contributions to the new material are so anonymous that they wouldn't stand out enough for people to really get absorbed by anyone but Axl in this new band. That's ANOTHER MAJOR reason they wouldn't be anything without the GNR name.

[Axingn'r]

And shootingstar, I get what you're saying. The industry as a whole is a much different beast than it used to be even 10 years ago. It's not royalties where artists make their most money anymore. It's tickets and merchandise sales, touring and appearance fees...

Correct. That's why bands as Pixies are touring again. David Lovering said on a documentary that he lived on the two checks he received on yearly basis back in the '90s (although the band didn't exist anymore) but with the Internet, it has become impossible for many musicians to live on royalties. When Joey Santiago called him to ask if he wanted to do a reunion tour, he jumped for joy....

Edited December 28, 2006 by Axingn'r

[moreblack]

And shootingstar, I get what you're saying. The industry as a whole is a much different beast than it used to be even 10 years ago. It's not royalties where artists make their most money anymore. It's tickets and merchandise sales, touring and appearance fees...

Correct. That's why bands as Pixies are touring again. David Lovering said on a documentary that he lived on the two checks he received on yearly basis back in the '90s (although the band didn't exist anymore) but with the Internet, it has become impossible for many musicians to live on royalties. When Joey Santiago called him to ask if he wanted to do a reunion tour, he jumped for joy....

it kinda helps if you like to play to people as well.

[War Of The Roses]

And shootingstar, I get what you're saying. The industry as a whole is a much different beast than it used to be even 10 years ago. It's not royalties where artists make their most money anymore. It's tickets and merchandise sales, touring and appearance fees...

Correct. That's why bands as Pixies are touring again. David Lovering said on a documentary that he lived on the two checks he received on yearly basis back in the '90s (although the band didn't exist anymore) but with the Internet, it has become impossible for many musicians to live on royalties. When Joey Santiago called him to ask if he wanted to do a reunion tour, he jumped for joy....

it kinda helps if you like to play to people as well.

moreblack, ive just seen the discussion & news section and all the latest posts are covered by you, your on fire :xmasssanta: rock1

[moreblack]

And shootingstar, I get what you're saying. The industry as a whole is a much different beast than it used to be even 10 years ago. It's not royalties where artists make their most money anymore. It's tickets and merchandise sales, touring and appearance fees...

Correct. That's why bands as Pixies are touring again. David Lovering said on a documentary that he lived on the two checks he received on yearly basis back in the '90s (although the band didn't exist anymore) but with the Internet, it has become impossible for many musicians to live on royalties. When Joey Santiago called him to ask if he wanted to do a reunion tour, he jumped for joy....

it kinda helps if you like to play to people as well.

moreblack, ive just seen the discussion & news section and all the latest posts are covered by you, your on fire :xmasssanta: rock1

So that's what that burning sensation was... :xmassrudolph: