Lumikki

9 hours ago, stella said:

I think it means that *Izzy* sold girls...which really is sleazy and horrible, but would sadly have made sense because he would have already been involved with some rather criminal elements with his heroin sales. We know that Axl and Duff at least both had straight jobs. Duff in particular seemed proud of working as a cook, and Axl was at Tower long enough and was responsible enough to be made a manager. In IIRC Slash's book, he also mentions that he and Axl (and I think Duff) were film extras; they'd screw around all day and then show up at the end to get their checks, and since it was all huge crowd scenes nobody noticed.

Izzy's the only one in the band who hasn't been linked to a legal job.

There are a couple of interviews that are pretty intriguing that I have never found anywhere online. I wish they would turn up. There's one from a magazine with Beth Nussbaum as the editor/interviewer where they were totally awful, even more than this - they were talking about Steven having crabs in his cast for his broken arm, and all this other stuff. And Metal Edge did a pretty in-depth thing with them where they even got Duff talking about books.

 

I had never thought about it like that, but it really is interesting that we know about all of them having acceptable, legal jobs back then (I'll take your word for it in Steven's case), except for Izzy, yeah

14 hours ago, Frey said:

Speaking of articles... Came across this recently. @Tori72 It's the original interview where Izzy said the "selling women" thing.

 

What did you do for money before Geffen kindly forwarded you an advance?

"G-I-R-L-S," Steven laughs.

Izzy: "Sold drugs, sold girls, sold, uh.. we just got it. We managed. In the beginning we'd throw parties and ransack the girl's purse while one of the guys was with her."

Slash: "Not being sexist or anything, but it's fucking amazing how much abuse girls will take."

"Slash!" Izzy winces.

"He does it purposely," says Axl with more than a hint of weariness. He attempts to clear the air with a change of subject. [...]

 

Slash Can't decide who's worse here, Izzy or Slash. But it's funny that Izzy reacts scandalized at Slash's comment after what he himself just said

(And Axl being the sane one who's weary of their shit doesn't make a whole lot of a sense either lol...)

 

Slash wins the award for worst asshole in this one, for the additional homophobic comment earlier on in the interview

That, combined with the abuse comment is enough to put him in the lead...

14 hours ago, Frey said:

 

 

Okay...

I realize Axl is supposed to look tough and cool here, but to me he just looks like such a tiny little peanut there

Like a little boy sitting on his father's motorbike or something

@Tori72 Don't feel bad, not worth it. Izzy and Axl have done some seriously fucked up, horrible shit in their lives, and Slash and Steven have been involved in or are guilty of some pretty awful things as well. The only one who gets a pass as a decent human being is Duff (as far as we know).

On ‎03‎.‎05‎.‎2017 at 0:46 AM, killuridols said:

Because I wanna read all my German admired people in their original language. Translations from German are not as accurate as they could be since there are words that are so hard to explain in other languages. I understand some and I have studied the meaning of some concepts, but that's all I can do.

Reading Kafka and other people would be a dream I wouldn't achieve as a beginner anyway!

You can always ask me or any of the other German speakers here if you have a question about anything   Or Andy

On ‎01‎.‎05‎.‎2017 at 6:57 PM, MillionsOfSpiders said:

 

@Lumikki I wondered why I couldn't find a mygnr version of the interview, if newgnr had it you could be sure mygnr would too due to the amount of people who posted on both boards.. and the rivalry between them  

I wonder who it was that demanded the pictures be removed, TB? I don't think it was Axl himself because they say 'someone posing as Rose' so that makes me think it was TB trying to make sure he doesn't see it or people straight out dismiss what she says. I did think a lot about posting it partly because of the pregnancy part, maybe he doesn't know about it still because he's been "blocked" from seeing it. And I know that sounds ridiculous but then I think about other things TB have "shielded" him from and I wonder. 

I have no idea about the pictures. I actually don't remember any pictures being posted with that article back then. So maybe they got taken down really quickly.

And well, TB block him from a lot of things, so I guess it's possible he hasn't seen it, yeah. Had forgotten about that for a moment there.

4 hours ago, Frey said:

14 hours ago, Blackstar said:

16 hours ago, RONIN said:

When did this meeting take place?

 

When I met him, that was before Portrait came out, it was before I was fined? I think. It was when I did the Gave Up video with Trent. Quite honestly -- and I’m not insinuating anything -- but at the time I was a little uncomfortable. He didn’t really know me, and he’s like, “Hey I will fly you out to LA. You can play guitar in my video and you can stay with me.” I said I don’t play guitar, that’s ok man don’t worry about it. I felt like I could have woken up with a sore anus, but I didn’t, the jury’s out on that one.. I am not suggesting anything. At the time I was a little intimidated, but then when I got there I realized I’m a good 4ft taller than him, so it was fine.

What? I can't stop laughing If there is any truth to what Manson implied here, the only thing I can say is that Axl had a very bad taste (in contrast to his taste on women)

------

On a serious note, Marilyn Manson calling anyone else pretentious is the pot calling the kettle black.

I just said the same thing in an earlier post, but I'll say it again: Marilyn Manson is such a tool.

Like @Blackstar says, if Axl is indeed bi/gay like MM is implying here, than I sure hope he would have better taste than to go after that ugly moron.

I'm not exactly an expert on what dudes who are into other dudes are into, but there's got to be better guys out there than MM. Have some self respect, Axl!

 

Pfffff.... Marilyn Manson can only dream of Axl being into him like that.

That is such a pathetic (and rather homophobic) attempt at trying to make himself look cool by Marilyn Manson

(And I agree: Aim higher, Axl! Tons of better guys out there than this guy )

@MillionsOfSpiders That is a blast from the past I remember when that interview with Julianna Sedbrook first appeared on the internet. I had completely forgotten about it, but as soon as I read her name my brain went "We had some really romantic days, Axl washed me with a wash cloth, then he locked himself up in a bathroom, and I ended up pregnant but lost the baby because I was partying too much." Apparently that part left a lasting impression on me back then

We had a thread about it here on mygnr. So it's totally fine to discuss this imo, as it has already been discussed extensively in the past. Some people were worried then that learning about the miscarried baby (another miscarried baby) might hurt Axl. I figure if Axl does indeed read this forum, he probably learned about this when the interview originally appeared and it's too late now anyway.

That thread seems to be one of those threads that are gone and lost forever now though, sadly. At least I can't find it anymore. Iirc, Julianna herself signed up here and commented on the article too. And I also vaguely remember some sort of Facebook drama involving Julianna and Adriana that may or may not have been related to his article.

I should check if I saved any of this stuff back then.

(As for who Julianna was or about her making this up... To me, she seems like she was simply one of these girls who were "around" the band back then and engaged in sexual relationships with them at various points in time. Similar to Pam Manning, Adriana, Barbie and so on. I'd say she is as credible (or not) as any of them. I also vaguely remember Steven talking about Julianna and the friend named Lisa that she mentions in that interview, saying basically the same stuff she says here about how they used to live together.)

21 hours ago, Frey said:

Sorry, I didn't see that first part of your post earlier, it really must have gotten eaten.

But yeah. @Lumikki and Sinead O' Connor will be here with the soup and blankets in a minute probably. I'm sure you can join their club lol.

And well, Erin did say once that she felt sorry for him and wanted to "make it all better". Perfect set-up for a pretty co-dependent relationship there too- one person who's very emotionally needy and another one who's a care-taker. Iirc, Erin also mentioned having already been her ill mother's caretaker as a child or something, so she probably fell right back into that pattern again with Axl.

Not sure about what you mean by "we know he will do that or something else again" though. If you're referring to domestic violence, I wouldn't be so sure. As far as we know, he hasn't done anything like that in decades now.

Not gonna lie, reading these bits like "I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone" and also the bit about him "trying hard" is kind of heart-breaking to me. Because I do believe he was trying very hard to deal with whatever he was struggling with and the way he tries to find answers in whatever book he was reading is so bittersweet.

I can just picture Axl in a hotel room in rainy Hamburg, studying his book in search of answers and trying to be quiet so as not to wake Izzy...

And that other quote  -"Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life."- dysfunctional relationship indeed. But also sad because Axl being so amazed and appreciative about Erin holding him probably implies he didn't get held a whole lot in his life

As for Erin, I feel for her so much. Some of the stuff she has said, like the quote above about her wanting to make it all better for Axl, or how she's a care taker and just wanted a normal life with a station wagon and bunch of children, etc... Well, I'm kinda similar in that regard, with the same life goals and instincts*, so part of me can identify with that a whole lot and blargh... I'm honest enough with myself to admit that I might have ended up in similar ways to her, if I had been in her position and just as young and naive.

*I'm a "natural-born care taker" too, or so my aunt, who makes her living being a Yoda (TM), once told me She took a look at my aura and my spiritual energy and then another quick look a the palms of my hands and bam! She knew all about me, despite the fact hat she hadn't seen me since I was 7 (so for more than 15 years by then). Gotta love Yoda types

20 hours ago, killuridols said:

I want to read it to understand more things about Axl. I couldn't care less about the book or the story, lol.

Hah, so I'm not the only one who does shit like this. Not just about Axl, but sometimes I read books just to figure out what it was about that book that spoke to another person or why it touched them. Or to imagine how another person felt reading a particular book. I remember when I read Slash's book for the first time, I couldn't help but think about how Axl felt reading various parts of the book.

20 hours ago, killuridols said:

Duff is adorable!!!!!   

 

That is such a sweet video

On 30.4.2017 at 3:16 PM, Frey said:

I think he probably did share a room with Izzy there, yeah.

Before they got super famous and when they first started touring, they probably had to share rooms.

Reminds me of these pics of Slash and Steven in bed, where Slash appears passed out and Steven is all over Slash. I guess they were sharing a room when these pictures were taken as well.

 

Room sharing politics must have been fun back then:

 

Izzy: "Why do I always have to share with Axl?"

Steven: "Because I'm too scared to share a room with him and you're the only one we're sure he won't kill."

...

Steven: "What? Why can't I share with Slash anymore?"

Duff: "Because I'm sharing with Slash from now on. Go ask Del to share with you or whoever."

Steven:

...

Obscene noises: *coming from Slash and Axl's room*

Izzy, Duff & Steven (exhausted and sleep-deprived): "Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to let Slash and Axl share rooms?! The noises! We'll never be able to un-hear this "

...

Room sharing politics in this band are interesting to me as well

I want to know more about this

Omg, I'm so sad I missed out on the Kelly Family disucssion   @Andy14 tagged me, but I somehow didn't see it until she told me.

They were the first band I fell in love with, back when I was in elementary school lol. I was also terribly in love with the youngest boy in the Kelly Family when I was like 7.

Which is why I probably watched this video a million times, so this is my contribution for day 13:

All that beautiful, long blond hair... I was convinced I was going to marry the little guy when I grew up lol.

I also blame the Kelly Family for me having a thing for guys with long hair now as an adult.   The Kelly Family is therefore also responsible for me becoming a Guns N Roses fan in a way

Also, day 14:

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

GN'R Official Facebook account posted this today:

A month left!

Who's going from here??

I know @Andy14, @Lumikki, @MillionsOfSpiders, @dgnr, @money honey, @giuls will.........

What about @Carlycosmos?? I havent heard from her in ages!!

Only a month?

Don't remind me

15 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

I go to Munich 

Me too! Munich and Vienna will be my shows this year

8 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

Yiss Yiss. Axl for sure can't wait to see me in Prague and then in Vienna with @Lumikki. I bet he's counting down the days

Of course.   I mean, why wouldn't he be looking forward to seeing some of his most obnoxious hardcore fans?

28 minutes ago, Frey said:

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

How did people react about those confessions? What people?? Media, the fans??

I dont remember anything, really... Maybe I was too little to understand certain things or did not have access to the American media, so I'm not sure what reactions he refers to. All I know is what he said in that rant, that his own family had not reacted well to what he said, which is kind of "understandable", because those things are awful to be aired in national media just like that. I don't know...

He was also complaining about other people (like neighbors and more distant relatives I guess) talking badly about him in that rant- "Look what he's done to his mother, she can't even go out of the house now!"

Other musicians, who are/were aware of the stuff he said in those interviews have also used it against him, like Gene Simmons or Kurt Cobain.

But I was mostly referring to what he said in 2012:

Psychological issues: "I worked out a lot of them. It was strange to get successful and lose almost your entire family. Then you end up with daytime TV talk shows. All of a sudden, things considered horrific when I was growing up were so what? You were abused? Who cares? There should be more of a public acknowledgement of reality. When I talked to Rolling Stone about it, I thought people would take a harder look at my stepdad. Instead, they came down harder on me. That's still confusing to me. But surviving at any level is good. I'm a lot better than a lot of people predicted. They were rooting for the opposite. There were things on the Internet about how I'd be found dead. I had a very dark attitude."

 

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

About his biological father and stepfather:

 

"With the help of regression therapy I uncovered that my real dad, not my stepdad, sexually abused me. The most powerful anger was this two-year-old child's anger because it was hurt. Nothing could really scare me, because I'd already seen hell. I'd been killed at two and lived through it, and I was miserable because I'd lived through it. I was miserable for 28 years. My stepdad came into my life when I was three or four, and I didn't even know my real father existed until I was 17. I was separated from myself at an early age, and my stepfather made sure I never put myself back together, with his confusing mixed messages of love and brutality. He'd love me one minute, then beat me the next. I've had to learn how to shed both of these men's personalities. I'll take two steps forward, then one step back, but I'm into it."

This is from the "I, Axl" interview for Rip Magazine, November 1992 > http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=12

It's crazy but those two paragraphs about his parents answer a lot of the speculations we usually dwell about in our discussions:

- He is aware his mother was too insecure to leave the abusive stepfather.
- He puts it out clear the stepfather did not sexually abuse him (Zutaut's story enters the doubious zone again)
- He confirms the stepfather entered his life when he was 3 or 4 years old, which is the math we did the other day.

Also, the comment about the stepdad sending confusing messages of love and brutality to him. "He'd love me one minute, then beat me the next". Awfully coincidental with the way he treated both Erin and Stephanie.

 

We knew that Axl has said his stepfather did not sexually abuse him (at least I knew he had said that and I had the impression everyone else discussing this was aware as well).

I mean that's why we were debating this in the first place- because what Zutaut says is in direct opposition to what Axl has said. Iirc we even speculated why Axl might have lied about this, or at least made it seem like it only happened to his sister, if we assume that what Zutaut says is true.

I had forgotten about him saying that his mother stayed with his stepfather out of insecurity though. That answers some questions, yeah.

He appears very conflicted about his mother in that interview. There's still some love and that old feeling of wanting to help and protect her he describes, but also a lot of bitterness and him  just letting go of everything and leaving it (and her) behind.

 

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

What I always found confusing with Axl and his 80ies and 90ies interview is, that he sounds so reflective, so understanding and rational about what's going on with him. He does understand some things about the connection of emotional life, experiences and how it can affect you in the present. But he seems not to being able to put that learning into a more understanding, more loving (towards girl-friends), more considered behaviour. It is as if his rational mind is not connected to his behaviour at all.

I don't think it's that confusing. Knowing and being aware of something theoretically doesn't necessarily translate into making the appropriate choices in real life.

It's like these people who swear to themselves they'd never be like their parents, but then they actually have children and fall back into the behavioral patterns of their own parents and slap their kid or scream at it sometimes.

Unfortunately, people tend to revert to the behavioral patterns that are ingrained into them when in situations of high stress or pressure. If those behavioral patterns are ones of violence and aggression, as learned since early childhood, then It takes a lot of work to overcome shit like this, but I have to hand it to Axl on this one, he's one of the few people I can think of who seems to have significantly improved and really turned things around in this regard.

(Interestingly enough, I also remember both Axl himself and Gina Siler talking about how it's not really a rational thing when Axl gets angry, but more like a switch getting flipped and all reason flying out of the window. To me this explains why Axl appears like a very likable, charming fellow when in a good mood, but how he could be utterly terrifying to be around for people like Erin or Gina, when he was upset or mad about something. Instead of reacting like the average person when in some kind of emotional turmoil (i.e. upset or angry, yeah, but not violent or scary), he probably reacted like his step father would.)

I agree with most of this.

Another person who used Axl's openness about his childhood against him was Irving Azoff during the lawsuits, in a similar manner as Kurt Cobain.

7 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

The lady in the story was a Cherokee, maybe he recognised her from a past life? 

Well duh Why didn't I realize that? We're talking about Axl, so this is obviously the most logical explanation for this story

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

Why do we assume that "little Cherokee bride" (I don't even know what this means) is an 'old lady'? 

I don't know. IMO, I feel the story is a little bullshitting. First of all, because the source is already unclear. There are parts missing. And second, because that's not the attitude of a typical Axl, even if he was depressed, it looks like he was not so depressed that he bothered taking his ass to a show or whatever.... He always looks miserable and unhappy in all pics, anyway... Aren't we always complaining about his ass face in pics with fans or pics in general? Even the ones taken in 2016-2017? 

Im having a hard time picturing Axl being "grabbed by the arm" by a random woman (especially when he was surrounded by the entourage) and having this woman saying something so offensive to Axl like "who do you think it is responsible for your success? It is your fans!". I say it is "offensive" to him because when he visited this forum in 2008 and someone here told him a similar statement about owing shit to the fans he replied "I don't work for you. Just cuz you think so it doesn't make it true" and also "your misguided sense of entitlement doesn't dictate my actions". Which leads me to believe he doesn't think he owes anything to fans just because fans demand it and I highly doubt he would respond to such petition with a "yes, ma'am" 

This is all I could find about it. Seems vacation.

http://www.dialaflight.com/magazine/2010/03/maldives_mar10.aspx

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

Why do we assume that "little Cherokee bride" (I don't even know what this means) is an 'old lady'?

We don't. I said "elderly ladies or 'mom types'" in my original post. And the lady in this story (if true) was clearly some kind of mama bear type, who got on Axl's ass for ignoring her daughter.

I remember reading a couple of stories similar to this over the years and Axl has always submitted or been polite to the elderly ladies and moms, even if they weren't very friendly to him (like this woman or the Lafayette ice cone lady).

Even Mr. Tender himself (China Exchange Guy) told a story about having Axl sit next to his old mother because he thought it would be funny to see Axl deal with an old Chinese lady or something But to his disappointment, Axl was unfailingly polite and very kind to China Exchange Guy's mom And let's not forget Beta. Axl does what Beta tells him to do as well. Most of the time lol.

Maldives: Thanks. Seems vacation, yeah, especially if there's hardly anything to be found about it. Glad to see him doing stuff like that.

17 minutes ago, Frey said:

Yes, it sounds like a plausible story to me as well.

It reminds me of those creepy videos that appeared a couple of years ago in which these girls/women ordered him around and told him to do this or that. He appeared completely resigned and dead inside as well in these videos. Those weren't exactly mom types or elderly ladies, but still.

Also just reminded me of that incident with the St. Louis Biker who caused so much trouble during the show and made Axl lose his shit. I remember reading that the guy asked Axl for an autograph in the court room after he sued him. Axl must have thought the guy was completely insane, but biker guy insisted and Axl gave in and gave him his autograph iirc. Which I always found strange, because I'm a much more laid back and easy-going guy than Axl, but if it had been me in Axl's shoes, there's no way in hell I'd have given the guy what he wanted after he antagonized me for an entire show and then dragged me to court. And then had the nerve to demand an autograph.

Oh yeah, these vids creeped me out too. Guess it's a similar situation to what I was picturing, yeah.

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

Awesome Lumikki! Yes, that's definitely from the mistery years. We have to make a post with a timeline of all these pics then have @Frey indexing it.

One question... Who is telling that story? What guitar show?

They also mention the "entourage". Would be so cool to know who were part of the "mistery years" entourage since this has seem to change throughout the decades.

Lol, I'm not sure about the Axl obeying old ladies. Sounds like an exaggeration from who is telling the story. Or Axl was so appalled by that time he would act like a soft kitty?? Sounds very strange to me...

Yeah, timeline picture post would be a good idea.

The story was posted together with the picture of Axl with the girl on Tumblr. I assume whoever originally posted that picture described it like that. Going by the story itself, it sounds like it is the father of the daughter ("Heather") telling the story: Heather wanted a picture and Axl ignored her (or didn't notice her, to be fair). Heather's mother (the "little Cherokee bride") got pissy at Axl for ignoring her daughter, grabbed him and told him to get his ass over here and take a picture with her daughter.

No idea what kind of guitar show it was.

As for his entourage, by that time it would likely have consisted of Beta, Dougie, Craig Duwalt also might still have been around (I don't remember anymore when he left the picture), maybe Vanessa already, maybe one (or both) of his siblings, maybe some old friends from Lafayette...

About the story itself...

It's possible the guy who is telling the story is exaggerating, but I could easily see it being true. Axl looks miserable and unhappy in both of the pictures from that day, and we know he was very depressed and in a bad place mentally in general during that time. I could see him being so numb and resigned to everything that he just did whatever these people wanted so they'd leave him alone.

5 hours ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Axl minding his elders (especially women) is one of those things that is drilled into the minds of us Midwestern kids at an early age. I grew up in a small Illinois town in an era where the whole neighborhood was able to discipline each other's children, and maybe (not saying it's fact) Axl had the same kind of experience.  So the submitting to motherly types is probably (again not stating this as fact) second nature to him.

There's a funny story (I think it's even indexed already) about a little old lady from Lafayette who already knew Axl as kid telling him to "get back into the other line now, Bill!" or something when he was already a big ass rock star and thought he could use that to his adavantage. He obeyed

His grandma also mentioned that she liked having Axl live with her and that he helped her around the house. So there were at least two ladies in Lafayette he treated respectfully and didn't dare to mess with

1 hour ago, Tainted1 said:

I think it's bit of an exaggeration...didn't have an incident with shash's grandmother  (making her sleep on the sofa or something? How are you going to allow someone disrespect your grandmother like idk...) And slash trying to get him to apologize and he jumped out of a moving car? And locking his grandmother in the closet when he had a girl come over, something to that fact? I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I've read about these two before, I'm from the Midwest as well so I don't think that really has anything to do with it. It's about the individual, and maybe the older lady caught Axl off guard, etc? 

I've never ever heard a story about Axl locking his grandmother into a closet and I've heard a lot of stories labout Axl lol.

The thing with Slash's grandmother is true. But he didn't make her sleep on the sofa, Axl fell asleep on Slash's grandma's sofa and when she woke him up (because she wanted to sit down on the sofa to watch TV) he told her to fuck off or something. Later, Slash tried to gently tell Axl that he had to apologize to his grandma if he wanted to keep living with them, and Axl reacted very strangely to that if Slash is to be believed.

So strangely in fact, that I think Axl wasn't really in a stable or normal frame of mind during the time this stuff happened. I've talked about this incident before to @Blackstar and we have very similar thoughts on it. I wouldn't necessarily take it as indicative of anything therefore.

--------

And a slightly related question about this picture I just saw as well.

This is Axl on the Maldives apparently. Was there ever any GNR or business- related reason for him to be on the Maldives that I forgot about?

Or did he actually go on holiday there? I'm asking because we hear surprsingly rarely about Axl travelling or going on a holiday somewhere.

Throughout the last decades the only thing I can think of is him travelling around China and him apparently visiting the Easter Islands in the 90s.

I also figure he might have been in Brazil a couple of times with the Lebeises.

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

And there is more information...

  Reveal hidden contents

This is the stepfather (from the year he graduated and married Axl's mother)

 

@Blackstar you're the greatest Thank you

It's so interesting and strange (in a good way) to finally be able to picture the faces of these people Axl (and we) have talked about so much.

Also just for the record, I think that dude looks like a young version of tooth paste smile/polo shirt guy from the blurry family pictures.

So I'm leaning a little more now towards that guy being his stepfather too.

Guy in @Otas video:    Hmm... Like @Blackstar said, I can see the similarity, but where the hell did that picture even come from? I've been following this band on the internet since I was a kid basically and I've never seen this picture before. Never seen anyone claim that was his step father either.

1 hour ago, Frey said:

On 17.4.2017 at 8:01 PM, killuridols said:

On 17.4.2017 at 7:21 PM, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I saw in an old thread on here when I was doing some digging that Amy once listed Beta as her mom on Facebook. Weird.

What??
Really??... now that's fucked up to the bone. What the hell, man....

Yes, I vaguely remember reading/seeing this as well.

Though I guess it's not really surprising, seeing as Amy referred to the the Lebeises as her "adopted family" only a couple of months ago.

 

On 17.4.2017 at 7:21 PM, MillionsOfSpiders said:

 I wonder if Axl and Amy had different dads to third one then maybe they got it a lot worse.

Yeah, the thought has crossed my mind before as well.

But then again, what Stuart wrote about their grandma makes it sound as if things weren't going too well for him either.

Still, I guess it's possible their old man was especially hard on the sinful bastard children

 

On 17.4.2017 at 7:55 PM, stella said:

From the childhood photos, Amy seems to stand about a head shorter than Axl, and Stuart seems to be much shorter than both of them. Adjusting for the fact that Axl seems to have been a pretty small kid, I'd guess that he and his sister were maybe about three years apart. Which would make a lot of sense, from the standpoint of them both having the same parents.

On 17.4.2017 at 8:01 PM, killuridols said:

Ohhh... now this makes more sense. I thought the gap was of 2 years but if it's almost 4, then there's plenty of space to have Amy born in the middle of that. She could be daughter of Mr. Rose or of someone else.

What.a.mess.nonetheless

 

I had some down time at work and did some... "research" on this earlier (that's what it's called, right? )

  Reveal hidden contents

Depending on the source, Amy either graduated high school in 1982 or 1983. Assuming she graduated at 18, that means she would have been born in 1964 or 1965. So that means Axl's mom either had a child with Stephen Bailey out of wedlock (and wouldn't that have been extremely sinful in that guy's eyes?), or she had a second child with William Rose Sr. or there was another guy we don't know about in between.

Apart from that...Neither Amy or Stu have kids (unless they completely hide them and never even mention them on their social media), but both of them appear to have lots of animals and Amy's also very involved in animal issues and volunteers at animal shelters. Basically, Amy and Stuart seem to be all about their furry four-legged family members and animals in general. Just like Axl, now that I think about it.

They also share Axl's liberal/leftist political leanings and his love for food lol. Amy went to nursing school and still works as a nurse (or some other healthcare related job) I think. Stuart apparently likes to cook and bake and he seems to be a funny guy. His sense of humor is similar to Axl's as well lol.

Honestly, they both seem like kind-hearted, intelligent and reasonably normal and down-to-earth people to me.
I apologize for any hillbilly remarks I may have made earlier 

 

 

On 17.4.2017 at 6:35 PM, killuridols said:

We haven't seen Stuart in pictures with Axl since the 90's either (or at least I haven't), that and other information I have, makes me believe that guy is gone off the picture too.

Nah, I think things are fine between them. Amy and Stu talk to each other/comment on each other's posts a lot on FB and they apparently hung out in person not too long ago as well. Amy also mentioned being very thankful for her two brothers last Thanksgiving. And Axl mentioned talking to Amy as well at some point last year. So at least Amy gets along very well with both of her brothers. Can't speak for Axl and Stu, but based on the above, things probably aren't too terrible between these two either.

 

Also @Blackstar - Remember when you posted that story some guy told about little Axl being afraid of losing his step father's wrench because his step father 'would kill him'? And I think that story about kid Izzy getting defensive over his mom and the one about Axl having a bottle of liquid Lithium but refusing to take it were also by the same guy.

I remember you wondering if the guy was for real or if he was just making this up. Well I guess these stories are confirmed to be true now, because the guy who told them talks to Amy and Stu (and other Lafayette people) all the time on Facebook.

I just had a look and it seems Amy has deleted all the more controversial posts on her page. The one where she got upset about Erin selling Axl's belongings, the one where she was really upset about her satanic step (?) father... Gone. I figured she'd probably deleted these, but had never actually checked.

The Thanksgiving one for the record, since it was mentioned:

25 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It's still extremely weird that whenever Axl gets pictured out and about he is never ever with his brother or sister. Lots of Beta and Fernando and hangers on like Andrei etc but none of his siblings 

I think that's odd for saying how long he's been famous and how much he's toured over the last couple of decades.

I think that's mostly due the fact that Axl's siblings have actual jobs though and can't afford to be around Axl 24/7. Unlike some people...

And he does get pictured with his siblings sometimes:

Not with Axl technically, but with Baz, so Axl probably wasn't far away

There are also some older pictures, but these are the most recent ones I think.

This one is supposedly Amy with Axl as well, but people tend to argue over that one lol. But either way, it's pretty cute, despite Axl having that strange early 2000s appearance.

On 17.4.2017 at 2:33 PM, Frey said:

On 15.4.2017 at 9:07 PM, killuridols said:

omg     

I just spilled my glass of poison from reading that! 

P.S. Axl looks 4 months pregnant under that towel 

I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to start off another Slaxl Lovechild discussion

On 17.4.2017 at 3:17 PM, Frey said:

On 17.4.2017 at 2:55 PM, killuridols said:

Maybe it's possible a guy gets pregnant if he joins an orgy with ugly people 

Possibly.  

But like you said, he already looks like 4 months pregnant there, so the orgy wasn't to blame. Most likely Slash's fault again after all.

So I guess this one was taken approximately 2.5 years after the pregnancy pic then?

(Sorry, but I came across this (new to me) pic on Instagram today and it reminded me of those Slaxl lovechild comments )

On 4.4.2017 at 11:19 PM, BorderlineCrazy said:

Mike Monroe in Finland is awesome. I'm happy for @Lumikki and everyone else going to that show! 

I don't forget the stupid comment his guitarist Rich Jones made about Axl when the reunion was about to be announced, though. 

Hah, I wish. I'm going to the shows in Munich and Vienna, so I'll get The Kills and Wolfmother or something according this thread. Meh.

Duff in short shorts

(Not bad at all, actually.)

9 minutes ago, stella said:

That looks to me like a hotel room. Two beds, the nightstand in the middle, the bathroom which appears to have marble walls and that stack of clean fluffy hotel towels - they could have been roommates on tour or something. That doesn't mean they were both, um, hanging out with the same girl at the same time, though. In college, when you share a room there are always agreements to kick someone out if the other roommate has a guest...

But Slash and Axl frequently hung out with Adriana at the same time (if Adriana is to be believed), and since these are Adriana's pics, it's quite likely this was one of these occasions too

17 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Oh my....I always thought there was more to those menage et trois stories Slash told.

Well wonder no more. As I said above, Adriana already confirmed that in an interview. According to her, Axl liked to drag Slash into bed with them. It was "just one of these naughty things they did".

55 minutes ago, killuridols said:

baaahahahahaa

Awesome! I think you found the answer to all of our questions. Yeah, thats definitely same place in both pics and Axl's wearing that light bracelet.

What a horrible outfit, though....... the boots ..... geeez, he looks unf***able in both pics, hahaha.... sorry

Clearly Slash disagrees with you

13 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I bet the  Slaxl pic is from when they were going to record Rocket Queen and Slash says in his book he and Axl were sharing a  hotel room for a few days and Axl had Adrianna Smith there with him and Slash didn't want to hear them fucking, so he went out. 

 

Yeah, looks like he really went out of his way to avoid all of that 

Oh good point, I had forgotten about that! But yeah, seems likely.

And yeah, Slash was out alright, but not out of the room

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Thank you for the transcript! I needed this as well 

You're welcome. I had that quote in my file of random Axl quotes, but forgot to add the source lol.

35 minutes ago, stella said:

I agree, and I am glad that @Frey shared the links to the old posts so we could catch up. IMHO there's no reason to disbelieve him.

Yeah, as someone said in the old thread, Tom Zutaut doesn't really come across like a malicious guy who'd make something like that up for some nefarious reason. I do think Zutaut himself probably believes what he was saying.

42 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

Cool, I had not seen some of those pics @Lumikki thank you for posting.

But are people thinking the guy with the beard sitting on the floor with the huge-ass grin is Axl's stepfather? I'd have to say No Way on that one. I'd say that guy is in his late 30's and looks WAY more jocular than what has been described about him. I just don't see someone who smacks his kids across the face for looking at a woman on the tv would be so smiley in front of a camera  I'd be more inclined to think it's the guy in the top left hand corner sitting beside Axl in the first pic. I don't know who that is either, but maybe someone else does.

Where was it determined that his stepfather was only 14 yrs older than him? Can that be right? (paging indexer @Frey )

You're welcome too lol.

Yeah I've seen people claim that as well. As far as I know there's no proof of that, but unlike most stuff that is claimed to be Axl's this or Axl's that, it's at least possible in this case. And I can see why people would think that, considering all the other family members in the pictures.

But yeah, polo shirt guy does seem like a pretty friendly and jocular looking guy, doesn't he? So I see what you're saying, but on the other hand it's hard to judge from a bunch of blurry pictures and impressions like that can be deceptive. And he was a preacher with his own little church, so he should be somewhat charismatic at least.

And yes, the 14 years older thing is right. I don't know if that part of the thread has been indexed yet, but I remember the discussion where that was determined very well (it was determined through data from genealogical sites and gravestone data...). It basically went like this: Axl's mom had Axl when she was 16 (his biological father was 20 at the time). Four years later, Axl's mom married Axl's step father, who was 18 at the time (and his mom was 20). So that makes Axl's step father 14 years older than Axl. I don't remember his exact age anymore, but we also had the actual birth date of the guy if that is not accurate enough for you He should be around 68 0r 69 now and is still very much alive.

And if we assume these pictures were taken in 1989, then Axl's step father would have been 41 or 42 at the time (depending on when exactly the pictures were taken), which isn't too far off from your late 30s impression.

@MillionsOfSpiders thanks for saving me the time

I knew exactly what quote @Frey and @killuridols were arguing about and I even had it ready in text form ("As a kid I was like, always obnoxious to get attention. But I was very shy and introverted; people didn't see that side necessarily, but that was there and it's still there."), but I couldn't remember the original source of the quote for the life of me.

20 hours ago, Frey said:

On 23.3.2017 at 10:48 PM, stella said:

Yes - and to add to what @Blackstar said, from what Axl mentioned in that big Rolling Stone interview, he found out about his sister's abuse in 1990 or so, and it's pretty reasonable to think it may have contributed to the break. In the RS interview he mentions something about how it's important that his stepfather isn't around him or his sister anymore because he's dangerous.

You weren't here for that, but towards the end of the old thread we had some pretty heavy discussion about the stuff Tom Zutaut said in the BBC documentary (about Axl's stepfather sexually abusing Axl too), and some people came down on the side of believing that Zutaut was telling the truth. So assuming that what Zutaut said is indeed true, I can totally see why he'd say his stepfather is dangerous (if I remember correctly Axl actually called his step father "the most dangerous man I've ever met") and why he would do everything to keep him away from his sister and himself.

Here's some links to the discussion from the thread index (links to individual posts because the discussion is spread out over many pages) because I just indexed that part of the thread.

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Tom Zutauts claims in the BBC documentary  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21

 

Thanks for the links, I meant to catch up on this discussion but never got around to it. I guess now that we're on page 70 of the new thread, I'll finally read the end of the old thread

13 hours ago, killuridols said:

The one that was recently posted here, looks like Christmas time at Axl's home and everybody wearing shoes and putting their feet in the sofa , I have no idea where it originally comes from.... I've never seen it posted by neither of them, however, it is out in the open now.... And it's an old picture because he's wearing those loose jeans and the horrible mustache, so probably from 2012 or 2013... There's obviously someone in his inner circle that once in a while leaks a picture but how do we know this is with the consent of Axl or not?

I remember when that picture appeared on the internet for the first time, which was a couple of years ago. There was a thread about it on here and I think Fernando might have been the source of that pic, but can't say for certain anymore. Anyway, I lost track of that picture after that and now it reappeared again on Tumblr.

15 hours ago, dgnr said:

Great job, but the name is wrong, she isn't only @Lumikki, she is Princess Lumikki 

Stop making me blush

And omg, your avatar is terrifying, wth

On 25.3.2017 at 4:52 PM, BorderlineCrazy said:

I've never had the chance to meet him or see him live so far but I have his album Sensory Overdrive signed by him and the band at least  Really hope I'll get to see him, he's amazing and his latest album is the shit!! 

Also hope we'll see him joining GNR at some show to sing a song with them like back in the day, he and Slash seem to be pretty close friends 

I haven't listened to it, but good to know.

And yeah, it would be really cool if he joined them for one of the shows in Europe

6 hours ago, Frey said:

No, I don't think so. He was aware of and talking about his messed up childhood long before he did any regression therapy, so he consciously remembered at least all the physical abuse and the crazy shit his step father did and I really doubt he was making it all up. Also, I think it's significant that Axl's siblings have never disagreed with anything he claimed and stuck with Axl throughout their entire lives. They're both just as estranged from their biological family as he is and the few times they (or rather Amy, because the other one has never really talked in public) have commented on anything, it supported the things Axl has said.

And yeah, putting hierarchies on suffering is kind of pointless, but I know that my instinctual reaction to people harming children is by far the strongest and I know many other people feel the same. There's a reason why child abusers are treated as the lowest of the low in prison, even by other inmates.

As far as Axl's step father making any attempts to change or repent- the way I see it, he could leave his children the fuck alone at least, after all these years. That's the bare minimum he could do and it requires literally zero effort. But apparently he's not even capable of that, so I see no indication of the guy becoming a better person if he still manages to upset his children to this day. I don't know what he did, but Amy sounded seriously pissed off and upset when she called him a satanic piece of shit or something, so it probably was something bad.

And apart from all that, I agree with the point @Rocketqueen76 made: I'd rather not doubt people who claim to be survivors of various kinds of abuse too much, even if it turns out later I was wrong for believing them. Having been wrong doesn't hurt and affect me, but me doubting and questioning someone who was abused does hurt and affect that person.

 

Whether Axl's step father sexually abused Axl or not, the man is a disgusting human being either way. He was still sexually abusing at least one other child in his care (unless someone's going to argue that Amy also only remembered that stuff with the "help" of regression therapy, but that's never the impression I got) and treated all of his children like crap in general.

And yeah, that the guy is apparently still messing with his children to some extent is   I can't really blame Amy for also clinging to the Lebeises and calling them her ersatz family if that is the kind of thing she still has to deal with.

7 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

I wish someone would show GNR that fucking monstrosity of a movie poster @Lumikki made where Axl is pregnant lmfao

Okay, that was random (I was wondering why the hell someone tagged me in the social media thread when I haven't posted in this mess of a thread in ages lol)

Day 13 - 70s song. Always loved this one:

Day 12 - Pre-teen years... the good old times when HIM had their breakthrough success in Europe and caused minor scandals because many parents didn't approve of the skinny, androgynous looking goth guy singing about suicide and "glorifying death".

Needless to say I was very much into it lol

I also was very much into this throughout my pre-teen and early teen years:

On 23.3.2017 at 7:14 PM, Andy14 said:

Sorry to interrupt your conversation, just ignore me . But I have something for @Lumikki

I only hope you are going to take your membership card to the shows  @killuridols, @Frey, @MillionsOfSpiders

Ahahaha thank you, @Andy14

Why am I the "Protector of the The Ass" though? I get where the first title comes from, but this one   

I don't remember ever making any effort to protect The Ass from anything

On 18.3.2017 at 9:31 AM, stella said:

I think this is a really great discussion to get back to...

And I think this pretty much nails it. There's a ton of internalized misogyny, sexism and homophobia in Western society. Axl doesn't fit into the neat box that people want him to be in, and he doesn't have all of the stereotypical "macho male" characteristics that other men/society tend to respect and expect, and he gets slammed for it. In some of the interviews he did in the 90s he mentioned struggling with his perceptions of what a man should be, based on his background/upbringing and stereotypes, too.

Plus, unfortunately emotional/mental health struggles don't seem to be very well respected or treated with a lot of compassion - when someone comes forward, especially if they're male, they're often told to 'man up' or 'stop whining.' It would be considered tacky and mean to laugh at someone who has cancer or a broken leg, but the same people have no issue poking at someone who shows emotional vulnerability or any sort of emotional or mental disorder (with the possible exception of substance abuse, but that is everywhere). Axl has been very open about the emotional trauma he's had, and has had visible anger issues, so again, he gets slammed.

True. I always liked that he was aware of his struggles and problems at least, and very honest and open about them too.

Your second paragraph is probably the main reason why Axl doesn't talk anymore these days. I remember Axl saying in a 2012 (!) interview that he doesn't understand why he got so much flak for the things he said in past interviews (instead of his step father for example). If he's still upset about that, than all the negative reactions he received must have struck deeply and made him shut up once and for all. Which saddens me immensly because I would love to hear him talk about his views on certain subjects these days and about what's going on in his life and mind.

On 18.3.2017 at 1:14 AM, BorderlineCrazy said:

Worst thing is that piece of shit of a "singer" kept driving completely drunk for decades. He doesn't give a shit about anything or anyone.

Too bad Hanoi didn't get the recognition they deserved. I love Michael and it makes me happy how much respect and love he gets from his peers 

I love him too. I ran into him once at the railway station and he was just so incredibly sweet and kind to me and my friend. Really, he is by far one of the nicest celebrities I've ever met

I could post an entire play list of songs that make me sad, but since this happened to come up earlier today while I was listening to music and since it's also one of my favorite Hanoi Rocks songs, I'm gonna go with this:

Can't believe this one hasn't been posted yet (since it's about Steven Adler iirc and by Axl's old buddy Baz- double GNR connection bonus )