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      No More Links to Unofficial or Unlicensed Content :(   11/25/2019

      Hi, Due to numerous DMCA complaints directed towards the hosting provider of this forum, we are no longer allowing any links whatsoever to content this is shared, posted, or distributed by unlicensed or unofficial sources.   It's a sad day and we hate that it comes to this, but thanks to the sad and pathetic efforts of some even sadder and more pathetic individuals, the ability of this forum to remain online requires us to remove any links to content that is produced, shared, or distributed by individuals or sources that do not have a license or authority to post said material.   Discussion, concerns, and questions of this matter can be done so here: We apologize that it has come to this but it's the world we now live in unfortunately.   Thanks for your understanding and cooperation of this matter going forward. Downzy


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About downzy

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  1. US Politics/Elections Thread

    Clinton lost because most people thought Clinton was going to win and didn't want to bother standing in line to vote for a candidate they didn't love. That's why Clinton lost. First, you didn't say that: "Under Obama and Bush the US has been involved in 2 wars that should never have been fought in the first." Second, the Iraq War (or the presence of the massive military build-up installed by his predecessor) ended within his first administration. And how has Trump helped these areas? Are manufacturing jobs roaring back? Sure, unemployment has dropped in many of these states (which was the dominant trend long before Trump won), but how many of those jobs are comparable to the ones lost? Hint: not many. (this criticism also applies to Obama as well - most jobs lost during the financial crisis were not replaced with similar paying jobs but lower paying, with fewer or no benefits and less job security). Then they're fucking dumb. The President isn't solely responsible for the economy, but also foreign diplomacy, the largest and most potent military on the planet, and administering and executing the federal bureaucracy that so many Americans depend on to get by. That's akin to saying, "I don't like how shitty airline travel has gotten over the last thirty years, so I want a bartender with zero flight experience to fly the plane." And you wonder why I have zero sympathies who can't see past their own nose when it comes to this kind of stuff. Again, a lot of nonsense. America didn't start a major war or invasion during Obama's two terms; millions of Americans received access to health insurance that had long been denied them, federal employees saw overtime pay for the first time, two of three of America's largest car manufacturers were saved thanks to the auto-bail outs (saving millions of direct or indirect jobs), wall street and the banks were regulated to help prevent similar financial crises Americans and the rest of the world saw in 2008 and 2009. I could go on. To say there was no change is nonsense. Did the country suddenly become a land of honey and rainbows? Of course not. But to suggest that there wasn't any change is to ignore what actually happened during Obama's two terms in office. Never mind the drastic turn around in the economy, particularly in Obama's second term (despite constant obstruciton by Republicans on federal taxation and spending). Who are these people and are they toddlers? Because you're essentially describing the mindset of a toddler (I have a two year old and thank god we don't run our home according to her warped sense of reality). Again, if Pelosi was the kind of person who was going to be pushed towards impeachment it would have happened a long time ago. You're reaching here and either ignorant of who Pelosi is or in denial of how serious Trump's actions are to the national security of the country along with the dangers of a run away executive who can do whatever he wants. If most people have tuned out and don't care then they don't get to complain when everything goes to shit and the next President who's not an idiot is able to do in America what Erdoğan did in Turkey or Putin did in Russia with respect to democratic norms and traditions.
  2. US Politics/Elections Thread

    That's not showing you what you think it's showing you. Trump flipping counties isn't indicative of voters switching from Democrat to Republican. It just means that the people who did voted in the 2016 election for that county voted for Trump over Clinton in a county that previously went to Obama in 2012. It doesn't measure who actually voted and whether they previously voted for Obama and were now voting for Trump. Take Wayne County in Michigan. In 2012 a total of roughly 815,000 people voted. In 2016, the total of voters for the county was around 775,000. That's a difference of 40,000 votes in a district that overwhelmingly votes for the Democrat nominee. Trump won Michigan by 13,000 votes. Had the 40k voters not stayed home, Clinton would have won Michigan. Again, the link you've provided doesn't illustrate flipped voters, it indicates flipped counties. Counties can flip either because voters chose to go with the candidate from a different party or they can flip because voters decide to stay home and not vote. That's what happened in many swing-states: Democratic and independent voters who lean democratic stayed home. While true that Trump was able to convert 9 percent of former Obama voters, it's also true that Clinton was able to convert 5 percent of Romney voters: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/04/us/obama-trump-swing-voters.html The problem for Trump only gets worse as you look at younger voters.
  3. US Politics/Elections Thread

    I thought so too, but it's not. It's actually the second headline of the news story. The first banner listed Biden, Sanders and Warren: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/12/11/poll-texas-california-magic-wall-king-ip-sot-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/
  4. US Politics/Elections Thread

    Have proof of that. Because from my reading it was in the 5 to 9 percent. Not insignificant, but not what I would call "many." Which is why many may have voted for him, but why stick with him? His trade wars haven't (and won't) bring back manufacturing jobs while hurting many farmers and rural communities. He's done nothing on healthcare other than to weaken Obamacare, making the system even worse. Yearly deficits have ballooned to rival the deficits America faced in the first couple of years of the Obama administration. What happened to fiscal responsibility? The Tea Party? Guess the problem wasn't the spending by the Obamacare after all. Second, when is making decisions out of anger and spite ever a good idea or leads to positive outcomes? I get being angry, but it's wholly incomprehensible to give a guy like Donald Trump, a con artist if there ever was one, the keys to the nuclear codes. You and others don't like Clinton. But at least she's an adult not perpetuating lie after lie while relying on the worst instincts to stay afloat. Donald Trump is the epitome of everything that is wrong about America; everything that the rest of the world hates and derides about America; and America embraced its worst in 2016. Sorry, but I have no sympathies or no respect for a country that would turn to a man who launched his political career on a racist lie about a sitting President. Again, incorrect. Obama removed America from Iraq and never voted for either war. And don't forget, Trump was for both wars (as were most Americans) when they were first launched. So please save me the revisionist bullshit. You've got to be kidding me. So they were done with the lies and they voted in a man who lies with every second sentence he utters? Come on. If that's all that matters to Americans, then they are done as a nation. It means the values and principles no longer matter so long as meat is cheap and they have a pay cheque that just covers expenses. It's not a country that's long for this world if the norms and traditions that both parties had adhered to and respected until Trump came along are done. Might as well turn to an autocratic despot at this point if the constitution no longer means anything. Again, utter rubbish. She's doing what she's obligated to do as is noted in the Constitution. Congress is meant to check the Executive branch and vice versa. Failure to uphold her responsibility is a failure to the duty she swore when she became a sitting representative. If the Democrats were hell-bent on impeaching Trump they would have done it a long time ago. You honestly think it's wise for them go down this path right before the primary season starts? If you truly understood what Trump did and why it's so serious, you'd understand why Democrats had no choice. Which is why I'm not a fan or either, but for different reasons. Trump because he represents the worst of America and isn't qualified to run a coffee shop, let alone the White House. Sanders because he peddles fantasies that will never become law. The system was not designed for revolution or vast and dramatic changes. Anyone who studied the founding fathers and their reservations of monarchy rule knows why the devised a system that is suppose to be slow and cumbersome. Sanders promotes policies that will never be accepted or passed overnight. America has almost always been a nation of incrementalism because it's all the system will allow. Yes, it's not limited to America. But America certainly shines bright in the dumbest political outcomes category (Britain a close second). There are system and international challenges to global events, particularly in trade and growing inequality. What people like Trump, Johnson, Le Pen, Bolsonaro and other populists peddle are easy solutions to complex problems. Blame immigrants and elites for your problems. Get rid of both and life will be great again. The truth is globalization isn't going anywhere. Some countries like South Korea, China, Germany, Norway, Sweden and to a certain extent Canada realize the way forward is through hard work and investing in your citizens while also accepting the best and brightest to study and work in your countries. It's not building walls, blaming immigrants, and blowing smoke up voters asses that most right-wing populists have done to gain political power.
  5. US Politics/Elections Thread

    That and the headline doesn’t match the results. It says Biden and Warren lead, but it should say Biden and Sanders.
  6. US Politics/Elections Thread

    @Gibsonfender2323 Before we get into it, this is why your country is tearing itself apart. There's no respect or concern for the truth anymore. All that matters is that your own side prevails over the other side. And make no mistake, America will stop being a democracy if this continues. Like Russia and Turkey, the absence of truth leads to democracy's exit. People like yourself and those defending Trump on this matter are conditioning things for the worse. Yes, a partisan impeachment is a terrible thing for the country. Even worse than that is impeachable offences that go unanswered, leaving the executive branch to run roughshod over the Constitution by trampling over the norms and traditions that have kept America on track. It's not laws or the presence of a justice system that allows a democracy to exist but the norms and traditions. Trump and his supporters are willingly or unwillingly destroying the social glue that has held the country together. It amazes me that there enough suckers in America to allow this to happen but then again I was dumbfounded that there were enough soft and amoral people in America to vote someone like Trump into office in 2016. But in the end, I suspect many of Trump's supporters don't really give a flying fuck about democracy. So long as their team wins, regardless of how or the ethics of it all, everything is fine. That's a recipe for the end of democracy. Because if you allow for a sitting President to give license to foreign governments to investigate a private American citizen for his or her own political gain, then all bets are off. It means there's nothing a President can't do that would warrant impeachment. You should be concerned as a libertarian about giving the President the authority to underwrite investigation by foreign governments for their own personal benefits. Today it's the President's chief political rival, tomorrow it could be an investigation by Russia to investigate those who speak ill of a sitting American president. It's astonishing how people aren't putting two and two together and how precarious this situation is. And all for a guy who doesn't give a flying fuck about you or the people who votes and supports him. It's as transparent as glass. As for your the points you raised in your post... Except Trump really had no interest in whether corruption was actually occurring. Sonderland made this clear in his testimony when he said that Trump only wanted the announcement of an investigation. He really didn't care if one actually took place. And why is he asking about Biden now, a year and a half out from the election in which every poll at the time showing Biden with large leads over Trump? Come on man, don't be daft. You can't be that dumb. As for the whole Paul Manafort - Ukraine involvement in the 2016 elections, that's a whole bunch of nonsense. Trump could have called the Senators who sat on the Senate Intelligence committee who looked into the matter and didn't find anything to substantiate claims that the Ukraine involved itself in the 2016 election. The U.S. intelligence community is united in saying that Ukraine wasn't involved. Manafort pled guilty to his crimes. If Ukraine were setting this whole thing up, why would Trump's former campaign chairman plead guilty to something he was set up on. Presidents don't call up foreign leaders and ask for investigations into anyone. They just don't. There's a procedure by which the Attorney General, who is suppose to act independently from the personal interests of the President, initiates investigations through the DOJ. Also, how did Obama benefit personally from having Paul Manafort investigated. You're assuming here that Obama himself directed federal agencies to investigate Manfort. That's not what happened. Generally the President has far bigger issues to concern himself with. Manafort was investigated as a result of intercepted Russian communications as well as financial transactions. This investigation started long before Manafort had anything to do with Trump and his Presidential campaign. Unless you're asserting that Obama knew, somehow, that Manafort was going to somehow be involved with a possible Trump presidential campaign way back in 2014. Governments work all the time with other governments on joint investigations. Again, that's not what Trump was doing here. Again, he didn't really give a shit about the Ukraine or what Biden was doing. As Sonderland testified, all Trump wanted was the announcement of an investigation. That's it. Nope. Not what he said. He said the quid pro quo involved giving a White House meeting to the Ukrainian President. He later said there was no quid pro quo about the money. He actually had to come back and amend his testimony because everyone else who testified on the matter countered Sonderland's previous testimony. There was no back and forth in Sonderland's public testimony. He was quite clear that there was a quid pro quo on the matter of the meeting but to his recollection it did not involve the financial and military aid to Ukraine. Yes we do. It's why he ran his efforts to root up dirt on Biden through Giuliani and not through the official diplomatic channels. There was no reason to have the Ukrainians investigate the Bidens when he could have asked his own justice department to do so. Moreover, it really doesn't matter what the intent was. You can't have a sitting President ask another foreign leader to investigate a former Vice President and likely political rival in your re-election campaign. You can't allow that to happen for the reasons I explained above. This shouldn't be rocket science to anyone. As for the whistleblower, how is he or she is irrelevant at this point. Everything in their report to the Inspector General was corroborated and validated by everyone else who testified. It was corroborated by the transcript itself. It's like asking who pulled the fire alarm. If everyone can see there's a fire, what does it matter who pulled the alarm?
  7. US Politics/Elections Thread

    That's still besides the point and not relevant. The firing of Shokin was the stated policy of the U.S. State Department, the Obama White house, and had bi-partisan support. Those are facts. You also fail to ignore the timeline laid out in the article I posted. I don't understand why it's so difficult for you to acknowledge the reality of the situation. I get you like Trump and want to believe what you want, but why ignore what's painfully obvious to anyone who cares about what actually happened?
  8. US Politics/Elections Thread

    Except he's full of shit. He let the investigation lapse for over a year and did nothing when asked by foreign investigators to look into Burisma. He's simply trying to rewrite history and get his old job back. There's nothing that corroborates his account nor do they line up with the timeline of events: https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html
  9. US Politics/Elections Thread

    https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html @Gibsonfender2323
  10. US Politics/Elections Thread

    Show me one credible report that shows former Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Hunter Biden. Again, please stop making shit up. Someone normal people wouldn't want to be compared to.
  11. US Politics/Elections Thread

    "The responses on Twitter included one from historian and author Kevin M Kruse, who noted: "You've made Trump a supervillain and depicted him in the scene where his plan to kill everyone in the universe falls apart due to his arrogance and incompetence.""
  12. Roxette Singer dead at 61

    The lead singer, Alan Frew.
  13. US Politics/Elections Thread

    Biden's position on the Ukrainian prosecutor was the same as stated U.S. policy supported by Obama, the U.S. State Department, many members of the House and Senate (including Republican Senators who wrote letters in support of firing the Ukrainian prosecutor for not doing enough about corruption), and many European allies. But yeah, Biden simply wanted to do it to protect his son for some reason.... Ugh.....
  14. US Politics/Elections Thread

    I would generally agree so long as the politician genuinely has an issue or grievance with existing policy and seeks to better not only the fortunes of his or her representatives but also his or her own chances. I don't truly believe Trump really cares about whether the new trade deal actually fixes some of the imbalances of the old trade deal. He only cares about the marketing of it all and how it helps his own chances in the next election. In fairness to Trump, it will likely win him Wisconsin, a state with a large dairy industry who has long sought for greater access to the Canadian dairy market. The USMCA doesn't change the fundamental dynamics of free trade in the U.S. It still allows for the movement of goods (and some services) across borders that doesn't address the complaints Trump originally had about NAFTA.
  15. US Politics/Elections Thread

    Except he did it not because he understood trade dynamics or the risks and perils of opening up a trade deal, but for political vanity. And you want to give him credit for that? It's only a minor victory because the changes are minor and really don't change the overall dynamics of the original NAFTA agreement. Yes, he Mr. Magoo'd his way through this. Democrats on the left have long wanted to retool NAFTA. But there was real political and economic peril with doing so. They weren't about to take on those risks prior for the sake of political or personal vanity.