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Rovim

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Posts posted by Rovim


  1. 28 minutes ago, Draguns said:

    A song like Hard School whether it was from the 94-96 session or Nu-GNR can play up to Slash's and Duff's strengths. It's structured as  a classic GNR hard rock song.  Perhaps is another one that plays to their strengths. Atlas can be like Estranged where Axl created it and Slash added to it. 

    Btw, I like the GNR version of Live and Let die. The Wings version just doesn't have that venom. 

    yeah that little Hard School snippet is cool. Slash and Duff doing their thing. I'm just concerned that not every song they'll rework is gonna be as good as a fit musically as the original. It's all good though. They're all very talented musicians.

    I just wish I wasn't in this weird position as a fan where I want to know what Robin,Bucket, and Tommy came up with for at least the second half of Chinese but of course I also want to hear what Slash and Duff can do with it and I just can't see Axl using anyone else but Slash now. (and for good reason)

    • Like 1

  2. 14 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

    I'm not saying the live "Better" is better than the studio version. Just saying the way they interpret or play it now adds slightly more of the "signature" groove that Duff is known for within GNR.

    And to be clear, when I say "LALD" better than the original, I mean the studio cover by Guns vs. the Wings original. 

    Slash didn't write "November Rain." He added to it. And it's tremendous. Without his solos, the song wouldn't be half of what it is, and that's an Axl Rose magnum opus. That is one example of Slash adding to the song but it becoming something grander/better due to the collaboration.

    This is how many songs in the day used to be as well. One guy would write it and bring it to the band and they'd all add elements to it. Yes, that's a little different than if Slash and Duff got to work on finished songs in demo form from the Chinese sessions, but the point remains. They can still rework choruses, bridge, code, solos, main bassline, etc. Who knows what they will do. I'm excited as hell for it.

    yeah, I prefer the Wings original. Like I said, I'll take anything. I trust Axl's strict quality standard. (I think it won't be a shit album no matter what)  I'll try to give a different example: Bumble's Catcher solos. What Axl had there was a fully formed and completed tune with Brian May's work. (who himself replaced Robin's work on it)

    what if Axl decides to do the same with some Chinese era tunes that we've never heard before? so you've got Slash now, and let's say he still shares perfect musical chemistry with Axl but it's going to be something else, different. Could be better, could be worse and I believe it depends on the song/idea.

    Slash's favorite released song from that era is Chinese Democracy and it sounds great when he plays it imo. It works. Other Chinese tunes - not so much. At least some of it is not as good to my ears.

    I think the advantage with reworking unreleased tunes is that it's going to sound more like Gn'R and Slash is a rare talent. The risk is that the original material could be better as is simply cause the musicians that worked on it before had a style that worked better with that specific song.

    Slash had 4 years to come up with his live Chinese interpretations. In the studio, he'll have better conditions to come up with solos for existing material but it's still indicative of his approach and personally I'm not entirely convinced it's all going to be automatically better just cause it's Slash. I still believe the current line up can produce a great album, but it's likely that some cool shit will get "lost in translation".

    • Like 2

  3. 1 minute ago, GnR Chris said:

    I think anything re-worked by Slash and Duff will add tremendously to that old GNR "feel" that many people claim to miss on Chinese. If I use the live version of "Better" as an example. The grimy intro is much different than the record version and all they did is rework the bridge to begin the song with it.  And the rehearsal of "Hard School" that we heard had a ton of groove to it (thanks, Duff) compared to the locker leak. You cater to it and make it your own. The entire band did this with covers. "Live and Let Die" is better than the original.

     

    but it's still essentially the same tunes and they retain a lot of the original style/personality of the people who are responsible for writing and recording the shit. And I don't agree that LALD is better than the original. Just like I don't agree that Better has improved. I prefer Robin's solo and the original intro of the song.

    My point is that there's still a difference between a song that Slash came up with and a song that anyone else brought in and Slash just reworked. People that don't like the direction Axl went with for the Chinese era probably miss the elements he brought to the sound. Axl talked about this in the 1999 Kurt Loader interview and said that no one else but Slash can come up with a riff quite like how Slash can come up with for Gn'R and it works both ways: a lot of people that really like what Robin and Bucket came up with did not like Slash's interpretation of their work like This I Love for example.


  4. 19 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

    If GNR were to release an album, who cares that some people here would find fault with it? Those same people found fault with Slash and Duff returning to the band too (ie, without Adler or Izzy, it isn't a "real" reunion). 

    For me, the leaks alone from last fall show how positive and favorable the majority of folks on these boards were to the unreleased/new music. A few voiced their displeasure for the songs, but the majority opinion seemed to be more along the lines of "Sorry to have doubted you, Axl."

    Some people will never get over that Slash and Duff didn't have a hand in writing those songs. So they will trash it the same way people trashed Chinese Democracy for not featuring Slash. They're out here demanding "all new" songs written only by the current band. 

    understandable as some Gn'R fans never connected with the post Slash and Duff material. If, for example, what you like the most about GnR's music is Slash's style of playing and it's just as important to you as Axl's voice or even more important, why would you want 20 year old material that was written by other musicians to be reworked by Slash? I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

    I'll take anything, anything at all but I'm of the opinion that Axl won't release a shit Gn'R album cause I liked Chinese as an album but not every Gn'R fan liked it and that's just the way it is.

    • Like 1

  5. 12 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

    ......or you could say many on this forum aren't utterly obsessed with the past and looking backwards and recognise that some band members are long gone, aren't returning, and that the band's sound has developed and progressed without them. 

     

     

    developed and progressed like Aron Ralston


  6. 48 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

    Be interesting to see the same happen with the 2005-6 era Carem produced sessions leak. Like the Village sessions. We'd have versions of The General and Thyme and stuff. 

    or the '96 sessions. The band can try using ideas from the past, the distant past, and new shit as well. Axl said Slash came up with some good shit that was never released before he left Gn'R.


  7. 6 hours ago, RussTCB said:

    Izzy Stradlin has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. But yeah, he wrote some great GN'R songs in the past. 

    I agree, but if Down By The Ocean is a good song, I would love for it to be a part of a new Guns album. If Axl asked Izzy to give him this song that's a good enough of a reason for me to want to hear it. That way, we'll have at least 1 track that was written by Izzy but I wonder if Axl will want to release it now after the shit that went down between them.

    Also: I love Izzy but it's not like every great Gn'R tune was written by him. (though many great Gn'R tunes were) Some UYI tunes don't even feature his guitar playing/backing vocals and that material is still great imo.

    I think some fans don't take into consideration that it's likely that a potential new album will contain ideas that came from the minds of not just Axl, Slash, Duff and the rest of the current line up. It seems like Axl wants to use at least some of his unreleased Chinese era material, so even if it's reworked and re-recorded, the origin of some tunes can be Paul, Robin, Bucket, Josh, etc.

    That could lead to a strong and diverse release imo as others that came before the reunion can fill the songwriting "vacuum" Izzy left (in a way) with the ideas Axl kept by them. This was done even for Appetite with It's So Easy, a song that of course West Arkeen came up with and the band almost completely reworked. They seem to have a knack for taking a good idea and make it 10 times better, turning it to a great Gn'R tune.

    • Like 1

  8. 2 minutes ago, MurielWeathers said:

    I don't really understand what they mean about not knowing how to release new music. Axl put out Chinese Democracy in 2008. What am I missing?

    in an interview for Guitar.com, touching on the subject of the best way for the band to release new music, Slash said the following: (no one said anything about not knowing how to release new music)

    Speaking of Guns, have you got anything more you can share about the new album?

    “There’s been no definitive answer on anything and I’ll just keep keep to that. Stuff is happening, but there are no specifics. More than anything, it’s because of the nature of the industry right now. It’s just like, how do you want to do this? I mean there’s material and there’s recording and there’s shit going on, but we’re not really sure what we’re doing with it right now.”

    The music industry in 2020 is a lot different to the last time you all made a Guns record.

    “Yeah! And there’s a handful people who said, ’Yeah, make a record and go old school’. And there’s a handful of people that are like, ’We don’t even know what buying a record is any more!’”


  9. 22 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

    I agree that this is true about the fans and Axl is not defined only by Appetite to me either.

    I wasn't referring to the fans, though, but to the "collective consciousness" that includes the public opinion, the press etc, for a big part of which GnR is an "one album band". Like, while you see Appetite making best of lists, you rarely see the Illusions - you may see November Rain in respective song lists, but not the albums.  It seems to me this is more important to Axl than what the hardcore fans think.

    I think this perception of the Illusions has a lot to do with the fact that they coincided with releases that defined the years that followed, combined with the fact that GnR didn't release a follow-up of original material, so the albums were linked with the band's downfall - and that combination led to a kind of "UYI revisionism" although they were generally well received upon their release. There is a book addressing this issue that I found very interesting:

    thanks, I'll check that book out. It's an interesting way of looking at it. I agree. If I had to guess I'd say the artistic goal is maybe to be a part of pop culture by making a musical statement and to make it stand the test of time, as an album. Individual songs are a different kind of success, probably not the main thing for Axl.

    • Like 1

  10. 38 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

    They've undoubtedly dropped the ball again and wasted a lot of time and momentum though. That's indisputable in my view. It'll be like a fire slowly dying out. 

    they didn't drop the ball or wasted time though. They chose to ride the nostalgia train and by doing so they've made history and a lot of money. If you have a different goal than me and you nail it but I think your goal is a waste of your time, it doesn't really mean anything. Especially if Axl doesn't mind putting off the shit that he knows will take him a long time to accomplish like new albums and instead first make the money while he still can really profit from it.

    you know what I mean? when Slash returned to Gn'R in 2016, I highly doubt Axl was capable of releasing new material that he'll be satisfied with quickly enough and still accomplish what he did with the NITL tour. Maybe he'd rather not release anything at all and instead succeed in the areas where there is the most chance to succeed and still have the option to make a record that he'll be proud of by taking his time with it.

    • Like 1

  11. 1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

     

    is Axl defined only by Appetite? I guess you can say that but I think certain songs from other Gn'R albums are what most Gn'R fans also strongly associate with him as an artist. His most notable musical achievements. It's part of how I define him at least. I think at the top it's November Rain and Estranged as far as casuals go, so while Appetite is "the" album, to most hardcore fans it seems Axl is not defined by just that album either. (Civil War, Coma, Locomotive are part of the defining moments)

    even though these are just a few tunes, the impact was there and I think it became part of the definition.

    We might know what happened one day, if Axl writes an autobiography. I think he wants to do it, but maybe years from now when the band is not active anymore.

    Bob Dylan was asked once if he could still write the brilliant tunes he wrote when he was much younger. He said something like "no, I can't, but I can do other stuff now." I think this is a good approach to have but my guess is for Axl it's like there are no excuses.

    It cannot taint the legacy with something that is not good enough (for him) and I get the feeling his method is to take the time to look at it a few times and think about what every part of it means (like Slash said how Axl likes to think about it) and if he comes to a different musical conclusion he makes changes while disregarding what is widely accepted, time constraints, etc.

    it's ready when it's ready kinda thing. Add the insecurities, endless resources, and other shit like the waiting for the right conditions from a financial standpoint and it's artistically a recipe for disaster or the reason for delays and why a Gn'R release is a rare and special occasion.

    edit: and like every other person in the world, Axl is capable of changing his mind and public perception of his music does seem to factor in how he feels about it after it had enough time to be digested. Axl seemed disappointed that fans didn't connect with his clean voice he chose to go with for Chinese.


  12. 1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

    I think Axl's perception of what is good (and his idea of "perfection") often happen to be different than the fans' (and the public's) perception. The Lies version of You're Crazy is an example: while the majority of the fans thinks that Axl's performance is great, Axl thought he sucked.

    But also his perception may change later, when something he was content with is not as well received as he believed it would by the public or by people he looks up to, and this comes down to his insecurity. Apparently he was pleased with Oh My God as it was at the time, since he agreed to give for the movie and he even issued a statement about it. But then, after it was poorly received for the most part, he retracted and said that the song was unfinished, wasn't ready for release and so on.

    In regards to CD: A lot of fans (myself included - as far as the songs I like go, because for the rest it makes no difference) consider the Village versions to be superior than the ones in the final product in most cases. But maybe Axl thought they weren't good enough and they needed a different or more "something", more layers or this or that. Or maybe he was happy with them, but when he had an "authority" like Bob Ezrin tell him they weren't good, that made him try to "improve" them. When CD finally was released he may have been satisfied with how it came out, but we don't know how he sees it now. The way he joked about the "lots of layers" in the Globo interview may be an indication of some regret.

    also he ended up not using the Brian May version of Catcher's guitar solo and I think it was because he didn't feel the reception of the leaked version was positive enough. He also changed Better's chorus lyrics and I remember before the album was released people mocked a line in it and said it was silly (now I know you know better, you know I know better) simplified that as well.

    Tommy said he thought Axl cares too much about what other people think. Thing is: that comment he made in the Globo interview wasn't really a good indication to know what he feels about the amount of layers in the album imo but it could be. It's just that whole Queen thing. I guess we'll know for sure only if someone will ask him if it was too much or if another Gn'R album will be released in the future. Very likely that Bob Ezrin's feedback made him go back and tinker some more.

     

    • Like 1

  13. 3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

    A related quote:

     

    yeah it seems the 2 different approaches really contributed to the quality of the old Gn'R records. There is something pretty cool about how being so different was probably the key to their success and their downfall. They are in an interesting position right now imo: I think they're at a place in their professional relationship that could allow them to make an album they couldn't make before in a way.

    Not since Appetite and Lies at least. They'll work together as a unit again and with the confidence their musical chemistry brings and maybe not wanting to let each other down and do justice to the Gn'R name, could be pretty cool if they get it right. I wish it happened sooner when they were in their 40's but better late than never. (if it happens)

    • Like 1

  14. 4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

    I also think it is clear Axl was not happy with Chinese Democracy, and would have loved to tinker with it more, because he is a perfectionist, because he is insecure and wants it to be the magnum opus he feels is required, both to himself and to all his followers and critics.

    but Axl said he was 100% satisfied with how the album turned out musically after it was released.

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