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RONIN

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RONIN last won the day on January 30

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  1. Mostly agree but... 1. Axl always wanted to be Elton Rose from the beginning. The piano was part of his act even in the early 80's. AFD was "raw" only because that's the only way they could get an album made w/ Geffen. He wasn't allowed to put November Rain on that album otherwise it would be there (as would Dizzy who would have been brought into the band and signed to Geffen along with the others). 2. 14 years w/ piano sounds like some great authentic rock n' roll. Piano is very much a part of rock n' roll lore and GnR (during the AFD era anyway) were rock n' rollers. But I'd agree, a piano on stage probably didn't help their "street' image. But then again, these guys were living in mansions and driving around in limos after Appetite. Are they really street at that point? I'd be curious to know what Izzy thought about the piano being included in their songs. Do any of his albums even have piano? Are you against the piano being used in a GnR album or just against having Dizzy in the band? On Illusions, Dizzy is playing Axl's compositions. I believe he had zero creative input on Illusions (thankfully).
  2. I don't think anyone hates Dizzy either. It's hard to hate someone that literally does everything he can to be neutral even if his head is firmly lodged up Axl's ass. He's just a yes-man like Paul Tobias. Only difference between those two is that Dizzy has some talent and doesn't interfere with band affairs. He's the consummate paycheck gunner.
  3. Dont forget all the Illusion demos with Adler including the "naked" Illusion mixes Slash talks about before Axl raped those albums in the studio.
  4. Given Rose's work ethic, I wouldn't be surprised if it was just hours of Buckethead, Finck, Slash and Huge/Tobias jam tapes which he counts as completed "songs". The "advanced" experimental material he refers to in the below quotes are more than likely just prodigy/moby inspired stuff from the late 90's. The "vault" is probably comprised of dated artifacts documenting Rose's 90's musical tastes. Somewhere in there is a mastered Sean Beavan Chinese Democracy album from '99/2000 w/ Brian May. If Mr. Rose appeared more remote, his vision of the project became more grandiose, people involved with the band said. He directed that music produced by Mr. Baker be redone again, those people said. He now spoke of releasing not merely one album but a trilogy. By one count, the band kept roughly 20 songs it considered on the A list and another 40 or so in various stages of completion on the B list. [freese] http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/06/arts/music/the-most-expensive-album-never-made.html "Now, there's been some concern... that if we play 5 or 6 new songs, then there can't that many more on the album. Au contraire mon frère! We're just playin' the songs we're not considering putting out as singles or anything. So you'll get 18 songs and about 10 extra tracks. And when that... when the record company feels that has run [it's] source, then you'll get it all over again. And by that time, I should be done with the 3rd album! So we'll see if all goes well boys and girls! And if Uncle Axl proves not to be an asshole - we'll have to see, the jury's still out." "We recorded at least two albums' worth of material that is solidly recorded. But we are working on a lot more songs than that at the same time." "We've been working on, I don't know, 70 songs." "It took working on the majority of these things and at least the couple albums' [worth] of material to figure out what should be on the first official Guns album." "The first one is definitely more guitar-based." "I write the vocals last, because I wanted to invent the music first and push the music to the level that I had to compete against it." "Why I chose to do it that way is that, you know, I can sit and write poetry 'til hell freezes over, and getting attached to any particular set of words... I felt that I would write to those words in a dated fashion, and we really wouldn't get the best music." "I'm about three-quarters of the way through [with the vocals], and it's a very difficult process for me. "There's not a whole lot for [the rest of the band] to do at this time in regards to recording, as we've recorded [a] majority of material." "Maybe if it were to get closer to, say, mastering or mixing, maybe there could be something someone else could add to it." "You know, basically taking the advance money for the record and actually spending it on the record." CD2 "I wouldn't say it's like, you know, that we recorded a double album, or that we have all of our scraps to be the second one. There is a distinct difference in sound." "We have material that we think is too advanced for old Guns fans to hear right now and they would completely hate." "The second [album] leans probably a little more to aggressive electronica with full guitars." "We were exploring the use of computers [along with] everybody really playing their ass off and combining that, but trying to push the envelope a bit." "It's like from scratch, learning how to work with something and not wanting it just to be something you did on a computer." "What we're doing is exploring so, you know, you get a good idea, you save it, and then maybe you come back to it later." "Maybe you get a good idea and you go, "That's really cool, but that's not what we're looking for. Okay, let's try something new."" "It's like, "Hmm, I have to push the envelope a little too far. We'll wait on that." So we got a list of things."
  5. Or the money was crap and he turned it down a la Izzy. That's the impression I got. Ditto with Sorum who also claims he was approached by the GnR camp (it's hard to believe Sorum was asked to participate though). Either way, there's no way those guys are missing the chance to play in the biggest reunion tour of the decade (logistics or otherwise) - unless the fee offered by GnR was abysmal. Adler seems to confirm that he was paid a pittance ( it wasn't clear whether travel expenses were even covered).
  6. Check out Speechless and Whatever Happens - then keep moving along. It's MJ's Chinese Democracy imho. Uneven with a few spots of greatness. Both of them felt like I was listening to out-of-touch icons struggling to redefine themselves for a new era. There's a tentativeness to those albums that is palpable unfortunately. I thought Axl's album was less disappointing though.
  7. I remember buying HIStory when it came out and just tossing it aside after listening to the radio hits You are not Alone and Scream. Yeah, both History and Invincible have some good cuts. Speechless is a great ballad and Whatever Happens is a banger on Invincible. I guess my point was that those albums were spending longer and longer in the studio where he was fussing over the tracks, second guessing himself, and going through tons of producers like Axl. A lot of great Teddy Riley material was apparently cut from HIStory. One of the best songs from that era, Blood on the Dancefloor, is actually a Dangerous album reject. We'll probably part ways here but I always felt like post-Dangerous, his artistry took a major hit due to the 93 allegations - they totally derailed him (like Tiger Woods post-divorce). He was never the same after that. His output sort of reflects that decline where the material shifts from darker introspective adult themes (Dangerous) into embattled self-absorbed icon mode (History/Invincible). HIStory has a lot of angry songs and rants about the media, his privacy issues, etc. For every Stranger in Moscow or Smile, there's a D.S. and Tabloid junkie - lots of (good-ish) filler type material. Thriller, Bad, and Dangerous were just stacked with hit after hit (imho). HIStory seems like a much more personal album for MJ (like Dangerous) but far less commercial. I always looked at Dangerous as MJ's Sign O' The Times. Which brings up another similarity between Axl and MJ. Whatever happened to them between 93-94 completely altered the path they were on musically w/ Dangerous and Illusions (some of their most intriguing material).
  8. There's no real clarity on how much of Steven's contributions made it into Illusions aside from Civil War. Maybe Sorum's book will clear it up definitively. Sorum has said in the past that he barely had any time to learn the material, let alone add much creative input prior to recording. They were demoing most of the Illusion stuff between 89-90 with the bulk of that material already written during the AFD/pre-AFD era. But Alan Niven and Slash both say that Steven could barely play any of the Illusion material, especially Axl's stuff.
  9. Very good point. I remember the passive-aggressive comments Q has made in the press about MJ.
  10. Whats next for ac/dc?

    Yeah, I"m with you. I'd rather take another bloated GnR album like Chinese Democracy over a dime a dozen generic cockrock album. Atleast he's pushing himself creatively in the former scenario as opposed to the latter which he did perfectly 30 years ago w/ AFD. Look, as a singer/frontman - Axl's got a good 5 years left, if that. Do you want to see him divide his energy and give priority to AC/DC over Guns...or do you want him all-in on GnR?
  11. The only interest this book has for me would be what he has to say about Axl and Guns circa '94-97 - aka "the wilderness years".
  12. There's actually quite a few similarities between the redhead and the gloved one aside from the fact that they both are extremely talented (musical geniuses?) and went into major pop-culture decline circa 1993. MJ had the first child molestation allegations in '93 and Axl had the wife beating allegations in '93 as well. 1. They're OCD perfectionists - they will toil over a single song for god knows how long and add all kinds of layers of odd/unnecessary vocal tics. A single song will go through countless revisions in the studio. 2. They're both extravagant - Everything they did was in grand style. Both had obscenely expensive videos. Invincible is the most expensive album ever made. Chinese Democracy is the most expensive rock album ever made. 3. They love to overproduce their albums and loathe a raw sound for their songs - see #1. 4. Vanity and ego driven - Both are self absorbed and love sycophants and adulation. In their prime, the videos they made capture their vanity and ego pretty well. Each one views themselves as an auteur who is solely responsible for their success - they have difficulty crediting or valuing people who helped them achieve their vision and fame (MJ - Quincy Jones, Axl - his band) 5. They are both musically/vocally versatile - Axl and MJ can do a lot of different styles of music well. They're not afraid to experiment 6. Neither enjoy touring/releasing music - Post-1991, MJ took years to release his albums and famously loathed touring. 7. Ruthless businessmen who are not above screwing over their own friends for money/control - MJ screwed over his friend Paul McCartney in purchasing the Beatles catalogue. Axl screwed over his bandmates through his legal shenanigans. 8. Both of them got increasingly out of touch with reality as time went on and are considered batshit crazy. 9. Their artistic/creative peak was in 1991 when both respectively released Dangerous and Use your Illusion 1 and 2. Neither topped those albums. 10. Both have/had an out of control entourage and inner circle of enablers who eventually led them to ruin personally and professionally. 11. Both also fell victim to success and became stuck/paralyzed creatively when following up their earlier albums - they never really reinvented their sound after the early 90's. MJ kept trying to top Thriller while Axl kept trying to top AFD - both were unsuccessful there. 12. They are both worldclass showmen/entertainers - perhaps the top of their class respectively. 13. Both have instantly recognizable and iconic vocals/stage wear (Axl's kilt and headband, MJ's gloves and pennyloafers). 14. Both of them cracked under media scrutiny in their prime and became increasingly private and guarded towards the press. Their appearance/life have been relentlessly mocked by the media in their later years. One was dubbed by the media as the Howard Hughes of Pop. The other, the Howard Hughes of rock. 15. MJ and Axl are extremely polarizing figures in music (they can invoke anything from intense devotion to strong hatred). Both have a mythic/larger than life mystique surrounding them.
  13. Two words: Versace Pockets (ff to 2:00) https://view.yahoo.com/show/saturday-night-live/clip/60600393/versace-pockets
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