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RONIN

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RONIN last won the day on October 18

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  1. He can't let go because he's creatively frozen in the mid to late 90's/early 00's - I would bet good money he pretty much stopped listening to new music after that time period. I bet he's still listening to moby, NIN, Jane's Addiction, and Korn albums. Ego. Needs to justify to the world that the last 2 decades weren't an utter trainwreck and failure. He broke up the biggest band in the world...for what? What was accomplished since? He has to save face by playing this stuff to an indifferent crowd night after night in stadiums. But it won't change the reality. You can lie in front of a mirror as many times as you want but the truth is the truth. And it hurts. Don't you agree? There's nothing new about Chinese Democracy. The newer stuff was first created in Axl's laboratory in '98 and '99. It's a fossil like the rest of the back catalogue by now. But I guess playing Madagascar is somehow less painful for Axl than Locomotive. Because 20 years of failure with Chinese Democracy is somehow easier to digest than the band at its creative peak conquering the world in 1991 w/ Use Your Illusion.
  2. Pretty much. I like Chinese Democracy but they need to either rearrange them with Slash and Duff and give us new renditions - or retire this stuff.
  3. It has been 20 years since the Chinese Democracy sessions began in August of 1997 (when Duff quit the band). Maybe in Axl's mind Chinese Democracy songs are still new and fresh, but for most fans, these songs are old and tired.
  4. THE JAM BEFORE BETTER

    Slash may sound like the De La Hoya but he's the fuckin' Vargas. - W. Axl Rose
  5. I was referring to folks like our friend @DieselDaisy I like nearly half of TSI although I understand why some would loathe it. It probably has the best mix of any GnR album aside from Appetite though. That's why I weep for the mid-90's GnR album that's sitting in Axl's vault. It would have sounded amazing. Clink nailed their 90's sound with TSI. Say what you will about Sympathy for the Devil but they all sound great - even Sorum. I know buddy.
  6. I hate to admit it, but I sort of enjoy this despite Axl's whiny vocals. It's a good song to light up a spliff to and kick back on some island.
  7. To some fans, that album doesn't exist.
  8. Well, it's only been 26 years since we last heard Axl and Slash together on an album - what's another 3-4 more years? Maybe it will be in time for the 30 year anniversary of Use Your Illusion.
  9. I always thought what made GnR really interesting was their musical versatility - how none of the albums really sound like the other. It's like they do one style and then say "Cool - we did that, let's move on and try something else to keep things interesting." So you've got the Izzy stuff for the Stones fans, songs like Coma for the metal heads, Garden of Eden/Perfect Crime/It's so Easy for the punkers, etc. Something for everyone. Yeah, the results may not always be successful but it's interesting nonetheless to hear them try different things. I love You Ain't the First - I would love to hear an album of songs like that. But there's something punk about the way GnR put together Illusions - they did whatever the fuck they wanted and didn't give a toss for what people expected or wanted - there's no cohesiveness to that album and that's sort of like GnR giving the finger to conventional wisdom. I'd agree with you though that GnR could really use more of Izzy's wry, self-aware lyrics.
  10. Happy birthday 4tus

    Might as well hijack this thread since no one else has. I miss Izzy Stradlin'
  11. It's hard to blame the guy really. Imagine playing the same shit over and over again night after night - and your fans don't want to hear anything new, just the hits. No matter what awesome new song you wrote, they don't care - just more of the same old thing. It's like fans constantly asking washed up movie stars like Mickey Rourke about 9.5 weeks or Stallone about Rambo from 30 years ago instead of whatever new movie they're making. A daily reminder of their irrelevance. That to me, is the death of art. I mean look at Axl - playing the same AFD songs he wrote as a 22 year old guy all the way into his 50's while fans groan at any Chinese Democracy song on the setlist. The irony of course being that Axl wants to sing CD songs because they seem fresh in his mind compared to AFD/Illusions even if CD songs are literally 18-20 years old at this point. Christ, what a weird position to be in. Repeating yourself over and over again has got to be a slow death for any creative unless they're just revelling in being a one-hit wonder and resting on their laurels. The dude is so bored, he even gets excited about singing cookie cutter butt rock songs from 30 years ago by AC/DC.
  12. Each one is the other's meal ticket. They probably realize that now. 23 years worth of lost income - they left millions on the table. Axl would easily be one of the top 5 wealthiest musicians in the world had he just kept the band active with the original lineup.
  13. Great post as always. Here's my question though - isn't it always going to be an impossible challenge to pursue art over commerce when you've broken through and achieved mainstream success? I don't see how you would be free from the burden of weighing commercial sensibilities for any forthcoming art you create and release into the marketplace unless you're willing to walk away from a lucrative recording contract and/or alienate your audience completely. Axl, for all his faults, was probably under immense pressure to top the sales of Appetite and Illusions with Chinese Democracy. There's no way he could have made a pure experimental album with GnR without serious repercussions. In the end, it didn't really matter anyway - but imagine Axl releasing an instrumental GnR album in the late 90's - it would have been career suicide. The label would have dropped him.
  14. I think had they continued to put product out there, they would have leveled off and established themselves like Metallica. Their exit basically left the playing field wide open for Metallica. Would they have been a cultural phenomenon like during the Illusions days? Perhaps not, but that kind of fame is rarely sustainable unless they were able to release a relevant album and given Slash and Izzy's predilection for mining the same musical territory - I can't see that happening. And if they had gone more experimental as Axl wanted, I think they would have had an even better chance of staying on top. They really blew it imho - no matter who ultimately controlled the band (Axl or Slash) - had they just kept things going, GnR would have the stature of U2 and Metallica. It's a shame really. That being said, and going back to what Corgan seems to be hinting at, perhaps the story of GnR as a band that burned brightly and flamed out in their prime, a Sex Pistols-ish band w/ Led Zeppelin aspirations - cut short at their peak - well that story is really compelling. Perhaps even more compelling than the longevity of other bands. Everyone loves a trainwreck. Look at the enduring appeal of Nirvana compared to the biggest grunge band of that era, Pearl Jam. That would have been the best possible solution. No matter how you feel about Nu Guns or Chinese Democracy, I think any neutral and objective person would have to see the last 20 years as a hugely damaging time period for the GnR brand. There's a Matt Sorum interview from 2001 where he describes the persona Axl has cultivated for himself with his silence and disappearing act as one of legendary mystique. That's a very savvy PR move for a guy who was the laughing stock of the industry at the height of his fame in '93/94. He flipped that around into a reverential awe from his peers and the industry at large. What he did next however, messed everything up. The smartest move would have been to simply go solo at that point in the late 90's/early 00's - or not lose your nerve and drop a trilogy of albums w/ Buckethead as the lead guitarist. Everything that happened from 2002 onwards was a blackmark on the brand and it nullifies whatever credibility he may have regained in the late 90's because the totality of the GnR breakup looks like a PR and artistic catastrophe. Agreed. Axl's "punk" attitude was all well and good up till that disastrous 2002 tour which jettisoned his reputation into the ether. From there he just became a joke to most casual fans - and the Nu Guns era was capped off with the legendary FAT AXL. The 2010-2014 years really were the proverbial bullet to the head that just destroyed whatever cache and good will Axl/GnR's reputation had. 2001 in my mind was the make or break moment for Axl. That's why I think Corgan was wrong. I don't think Axl was able to do what he wanted. If we're talking about Axl basically disappearing after '94 and the reunion happening in 2016 with no activity in between or Axl dropping a trilogy of albums in the early 2000's and not becoming a sad Vegas act by the end - then yes, I could agree with Billy. But given how that entire era turned out - if anything, Axl basically sold out his integrity which is the opposite of what Billy's essentially saying. 90's Axl never wanted to play AFD for the next 20 years and do cock rock with AC/DC. That's what Slash wanted to do. That's the whole reason that band broke up. And yet - that's what Axl ended up doing. I think Corgan is saying this kind of stuff about Axl to rehab his own PR and draw a direct line between the GnR story and his band's lineup issues. "Hey GnR did it for the art and so did I" basically. And for the record, I think Billy did a much better job of maintaining the Smashing Pumpkins brand than Axl. He never let his band fall to the levels that we saw in 2011 with GnR.
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