Len Cnut

I ain't drinking now, til at least the summer, I've turned into a great big fat cunt.  Looked on the scales the other day I was fuckin' almost 16 and a half stone.  16 and a fucking half, its a fucking disgrace!  I fuckin' drank all my life, this has never happened before.  So yeah, knocking it on the head, I'm gonna sober up, get up 5am every morning and run like fuck, sweat this fuckin' shite off.  I was 12 stone standard, all my life.  The worst thing is I don't get proper fat, like all over fat, I wouldn't mind that, I've just got a big fuckin' stomach like a fuckin' Darts player.

18 minutes ago, arnold layne said:

Socialize instead of sitting around drooling in a hazed high. 

But see a great many people can and do socialize on it.  Shit, people play basketball on it, Mike Tyson just fought an 8 round exhibition on it, point is not everybody sits around drooling on it.  Myself, I’m one of the sit around drooling types when I’m on it and I don’t mind that, its a ‘me time’ kinda thing for me but I recognize that the whole world ain’t like that on it.  In fact most ain’t.

Errol Spence out here handling business!

Anthony Yarde vs Lyndon Arthur kicking off in a bit...then the big yank main event in the wee hours, Spence vs Garcia.

23 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I used to collect these dvds with all the old fights. Still have them. They originally were on VHS and came with a magazine - you bought them in a newsagents - then they plonked them on dvd later on. 

Oh I know the ones!  Oh what the fuck were they called now?  The first video was Rumble in the Jungle weren't it, free with this little magazine.  Fighters or Fights or...no, I'm not even close, fuck knows but I know the ones you mean.

The advent of youtube is a treasure trove for me, people forget how hard it was to fuckin' watch old fights back in the day, now since youtube I'm like a rat in a cakeshop, most times if I'm not doing nothing or watching a film I'll be watching some old fight from fuck knows when.  But in them days it was like you had fuck all.  They did these odd retrospectives on VHS every time a fighter got a little fame, you'd get Tyson, Naseem Hamed, Frank Bruno in some bargain bin thing...other than that, nothing.

I remember this video collection that came out, you found it in newsagents for 3.99 a pop, it was basically episodes of some American TV show presented by Marv Albert and Fredie Pachecho where they'd show and then analyze a fight.  Overall though there was just fuck all.  You read about it.  I first saw Duran vs Ken Buchanan on the magazine video thing you were talking about.

21 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Jerry is World War One derived and one of those things that are shrouded in mystery. Boche basically means blockhead in French and was first used by the French soon after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 to describe the alleged slowness/dim-wittedness of the Germans.

There's a slow and dim-witted associations to krauts?  I've never come across that one, I've always thought they were considered like proper sharp fuckers.  humourless perhaps?  So there's no word on why Jerry?  Hmm.  Weird.

On 11/30/2020 at 5:58 PM, DieselDaisy said:

If England won they may have gotten through Action's lot but just been beaten on pens by Jerry in the final. That final is, that rare event, a classic world cup final by the way, a five goal thriller with Burruchaga providing the last minute winner. I think it is on youtube. Watched it about two years ago. 

I remember Italia '90, the Cameroonians beating the Argies in the opening game. Roger Milla. Used to love him. The Argies still made it to the final without Maradona scoring a single goal in open play. Dullest game ever until the USA final. 

PS

And here it is. Absolute classic,

 

Why DO we call em Jerry?  I've never thought to look it up or ask, I usually tend to look this sort of shit up.  And The Bosh.

Hows that for politically incorrect?  

Trying to think what I've ever bought Merchandise-wise with Guns.  An Use Your Illusion I shirt from the market when I was 13.  Used to have the Charlie Don't Surf shirt but thats not exactly official shit.  What else?  Struggling to think of anything.  Oh, yeah, I had a Slash shirt, a big fuckin' picture of his face, again not official merchandise, a big picture of his face with a fag on, something like:

11 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Berbick is an interesting fighter. I like all those guys from that late 70s early 80s era. I own this book called "Facing Tyson" and it tells the stories of all these different guys leading up and after their bouts with Tyson. I believe the same guy also did one called "Facing Ali". Anyways, I can't remember all the guys in the book off the top of my head, but the Bone crusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs, Trevor Berbick, etc were all really good, solid heavyweights. 

That era (after Holmes and before Tyson) was similar to what happened after Lennox Lewis retired, the heavyweight division was in shambles. Holmes pretty much got screwed out of his titles, and Spinks didn't defend. So all the belts got scrambled around (although, if memory serves, Holmes dropped a belt or two along the way). But what that era DID have was Tyson on the way. So it was only in "shambles" for a year or two, not the going on 20 that it's been now. 

On the flip side though, when the belts get scattered like that, it creates alphabet champions that can claim a portion of the title. Which leads to interesting fights (like what's going on now). A guy like Andy Ruiz can rise to the top of the division. That's essentially what happened back then as well with the guys I just mentioned.

Berbick was a bad motherfucker too, he’s dead now, if I recall correctly his nephew shot him in Jamaica.

Did you not think Facing Ali was a crock of shit?  I mean it was great to hear from Georgie Chuvalo (another tragic life, lost two sons to drugs and a wife to suicide as she couldn’t handle her sons death) but all that bullshit from Veronica ‘I saw God in Ali’s eyes’, give me a fuckin’ break, I mean he’s a great man and all but lets not be silly here.  
 

The man you wanna hear from in a Facing Tyson is Mitch Green   

7 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I HAVE seen this before. Honestly, people like to talk about the Tyson vs Lewis prefight brawl, but this one was worse. Holmes jumping off a car... That's epic.

Sailing through the air like a piano dropped off a cliff 😂

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Even Tyson's crabs could destroy poor Trev there.

Did you ever see Trevs car park brawl with Larry Holmes?

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Just watching Berbick being sized up by Tyson and he was already shitting his pants. My god. Feel sorry for him. 

Tyson had crabs at the time.  Thats not a joke either.

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Is that Vanilla Ice's latest?

Nah, its Mozarts little known debut, he switched his style up in later life.

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Plus Jersey Joe Walcott has the best ''boxer's name'' in the history of the sport. 

This is one of the best documentaries ever made - must've watched it about five times,

 

I think its a disgrace setting Mike Tyson to rock music   This is the correct soundtrack to Mike:

2 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Anybody care to hear my thoughts in regards to Holyfield?

Dude was on roids for the Tyson fights. For one, he WAS named in a steroid clinic controversy. For two, look at his career, the dude was a cruiserweight and ended up being bigger than Mike. Tyson was naturally a heavyweight, Holyfield was not. 

My final piece of evidence is his first title run. He weighed less, looked smaller, etc during this run. He also had hair (which roids effects that). In the third Bowe fight, Holyfield was WASHED. I've never seen another fighter look so old, wore out, and just plain DONE as Holyfield looked in that 3rd fight. Yes he said he had a "heart condition" then two years later magically goes away (which is questionable). 

Then he comes back, bigger and better than ever. IDK, when you add it all up, sounds like roids to me. I'm not knocking his first title run, I think he was clean then. He got in the ring with Bowe for the first fight, and wasn't sure if he could hang at heavy anymore. But I WILL give him the 2nd fight with Bowe, he earned that one (and might have been clean for it as well). But after the loss to Michael Moore, then to Riddick for the 2nd time (and looked bad during that loss), I can't think of another story quite like that. What fighter has looked DONE like that, and come back better than ever? Usually when they are washed, they are done, it's over. 

Then for the Tyson fight, he comes back bigger and better than ever. It just doesn't "feel" right to me. Tyson has alluded to it in interviews. He's never said "Holyfield was on roids" but he HAS said "I wanted them to know I was BETTER than them, man to man, without help" and "guys wanted to get that extra edge, everybody knew." Given that Holyfield was named in a steroid controversy, who else could he be alluding to?

There’s very little doubt that he was on steroids.  I remember hearing somewhere his wife was a ‘pain management specialist’.  I think steroids are much ado about nothing, an song Tyson beats Holy’, steroids or no steroids.  A lot more boxers are than is known, Roy Jones had his little steroids controversy, Pacman is also suspect in that regard.

16 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

@DieselDaisy @Len CnutCnut,

I could talk boxing with you guys all day long. Talking to you two is really the only reason I even post here anymore, lol. Not just about boxing, but I appreciate getting your perspectives from across the pond. 

anyways...

How would you guys rate fighters like Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe, etc. Outside of Joe Louis, which of those early guys do you like?

for me, Jack Johnson has always been an interesting fighter. I would have loved to see him in the ring with other early greats like Dempsey or even Joe Louis. I'm not sure he beats Louis, but it's an interesting thought. 

They were all their own kinds of brilliant, Ezzard Charles perhaps the most underrated of them and least respected historically but he was a fucking monster, were it not for Marciano he would’ve been the name of the 50s.  Tunney was a huge evolutionary leap, lateral movement and footwork of a kind unseen in the HW division prior to that.  Jersey Joes best talent was the unpredictability of his shots, strange awkward clubbing overhand shots and short hooks to the body, go look at his stance and hand placement, it was weird and off kilter but it meant he hit you with shots you couldn’t see or predict.  
 

Dempsey and Johnson, again, evolutionary leaps, boxing pre Johnson was...heavyweight here, was mostly just big circus freak looking fuckers (they look small compared to todays lads), Johnson gave you feints, angles, tied fighters up, thats why he really pissed over the top competition of his day.  The man was a phenom’, he was handling pros in sparring even later in his life, there’s rumours he handled Joe Louis I think, in a spar.  
 

Dempsey, again, was an evolutionary leap but what really set him apart was his fuckin’ viciousness, Dempseys brother says no one ever really saw the all of Dempsey, that was seen in the boxcars and barrooms, you caught a glimpse of it against Firpo when the guy put him down and he got up and just smashed him.  A proper proper vicious bastard, he had that fuckin two arm wave punch that I cant remember the name of, those sweeping combos and swung so far but kinda used the arms as a kind of makeshift defence.

Watch Dempsey Willard and its like two different eras meeting, Willards this big lumbering old time fighter and Dempsey, in 1919, is slipping and moving and weaving and getting inside, quality stuff.

21 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Ya, me too. I'm 39 years old, and Mike Tyson in the late 80s was IDK??? Mythic. I remember where I was when I heard the news, I didn't watch the fight. His career was mostly just let down after let down after Douglas as well, which sucks. But there WAS a time, when Mike Tyson was like a real life super hero, an unbeatable beast that will knockout people in the first few seconds of the fight. All the other best fighters can't even get past 3 rounds with him. Just plain invincible.

He WAS in real life, just like he was in the video game. One punch, and your down. Michael Jordan is the only other athlete that I've seen that compares. Jordan surpassed Tyson though, he never let me down.

Jordan only means something if you're American though, over here he's just a name on a pair of trainers.  Tyson was worldwide.

28 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Len, I agree about everything you said about Cus. He wasn't taking in just anyone, no way. They had to have something about them he liked. He wasn't a saint, no way. He had his own interests in mind as well. Having said that, he DID take guys in, give them room and board, food, a gym, pay for clothes and workout essentials, plus PAY someone to train them (Teddy Atlas in Tysons case). That's a pretty HUGE finacial commitments, if you think about it. Even when they turn pro, they make what $50 per fight at first. It's that gamble on these young fighters that just doesn't happen anymore. I understand WHY, but it's also why boxing has regressed imo, not progressed. Even a great fighter like Wlad Klitchko, I don't know how great he would have been if you put him in the 90s or 70s. He still would have been a serious contender, yes. But did he have the level of amature training, etc to REALLY prepare himself for guys like Ali, Foreman, Tyson, etc that had been boxing since they were 12? You can't underestimate how valuable starting so young is. Wilder didn't start boxing till he was like 21, 22. Mike had been fighting and training for 10 years at that point.

I also agree that Angelo Dundee is #1 all time trainer (for me anyways), but I'd have Cus at #2. Angelo had Ali and Leonard, can't argue with that.

I have a theory.  You can't be a great and start boxing when you are 16 or 18.  There are fighters who are taken in off the streets by trainers still, Lamont Peterson and his brother for example.  Gervonta Davis was damn near on the streets too.

A lot of people say that Angie ain't that great of a trainer in that he never developed a fighter from a kid and just kinda took on fully formed fighters.  Ali and Leonard were already olympic champions when they came to Ang'.    I don't agree personally but its a theory out there.  No trainer beats Ray Arcel, 20 world champions...20 for crying out loud.

21 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Yup. 

This is the interview I was talking about. At times I want to give the guy a hug and say "Buster you are the man, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of, before or AFTER Tokyo." I say that as HUGE Tyson fan obviously.

 

 

Also, it wasn't a flash knockout, luck of the draw kinda thing, or some fluky Oliver McCall eyes closed punch, he beat the shit out of Mike.  I cried when I saw that fight the first time (fuck off alright, I was a kid, what do you want from me? )  That bastard Mike Tyson broke my fuckin' heart, robbed me of my innocence, made me realise that I wasn't born in a time of heroes

5 minutes ago, Gavin82 said:

Just signed up too DAZN UK only £1.99 a month NO CONTRACT the GGG fight nx wknd & also Canelo fight is on there 

 

DAZN

Cheers Gav', just signed up.  2 quid, can't go wrong eh?

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Why is boxing (especially in America) seemingly declining, when it is thriving in the UK and elsewhere? That seems to be the question of the day. I've heard guys talk about this (Roy Jones, Tyson, Mayweather, others) and it's because (here in America), boxing has become a niche sport. Your average guy from 1998 (or so) and before, learned boxing if they wanted to learn how to fight. Now they do MMA instead, so that's part of the problem. Another part of the problem is many of the old boxing gyms are no longer in business. Take what Cus did with Tyson as an example. This old man, basically adopts this 12 year old black kid, gives him a place to live and teaches him boxing. That just doesn't happen anymore. Cus took on all the risk by doing that, all the expenses. If Tyson never amounts to anything, Cus lost all that time, money, and effort for nothing. So it's a huge gamble to develop younger fighters. It's easier to wait till a guy is 18, then you can at least make some money back on his pro fights. But by that time, hes behind on the 8 ball (this is what happened with Wilder). They found an older guy with potential, and carried him to the top. But he never learned the fundamentals of boxing, not properly anyways. 

Its something of a niche sport here too, its not so much on the rise, its just the your lot have gotten shitter so the competition is balancing out   Also, with all due respect, Americans are getting soft.  This is my sociological theory.  Boxing flourishes where a particular part of the population have it hard.  Black Americans, the last American race to dominate boxing, perhaps, don't have it as hard anymore, ain't cut from the same cloth?  Now I ain't an American, I don't see that shit but I read, there's a growing black middle class over there (not that this started yesterday).  Even Mexican Americans ain't hot shit like they used to be.  Most of our boxers come from the gypsy community or poor black people from urban communities.  And even they ain't tough nuts in the way our Nigel Benns and Chris Eubanks used to be.  AJ is from the same town as me and its basically a home counties type place, certainly not some fuckin' badman manor.  The fact is black Americans appear to have better oppertunities available than to get smacked in the mouth for a living...and the ones that do come out still (and there are some fantastic ones btw) tend to be from places like Baltimore and Detroit and Philidelphia, places that, I am led to believe still have some pretty fucked up and disadvantaged parts.  Now you get a lot of fighters from Eastern European background and Russian fighters and shit, along with a good influx still from South America.

As far as Cus, people make that old guy out to be a bit more of a fuckin' saint than he was.  He had fighters living with him in the Catskills and Mike was one of em, he only adopted him later in the day when he showed signs of prodigious talent, Cus saw in Tyson an oppertunity to make a lot of fuckin' money and make himself a fuckin' big noise in the boxing scene too, he wasn't just this fuckin' saint who adopted this kid after seeing him have a quick little spar, it was very obvious from day one that Mike had a lot of the tools and if he could he honed and harnesed then he was a fuckin' earner.  Remember, this kid was smashing through people that were a level or two above him.  Cus was not some kind of kindly old gentleman that saw poor disadvantaged Mike and took him under his wing and stroked him, he was a mean and nasty old Italian bag of nails.  And hey, thats not a bad thing cuz it certainly worked wonders with Mike.  All Cuses life he struggled to find someone that truly suited and worked his peekaboo style perfectly.  He had Patterson (tall, glass chinned), Jose Torres, Buster Mathis...but Tyson was tailor-made for that shit. 

Cus was great for boxing but I'm not sure how well he could be considered as great as he is these days.  I'd put Angie Dundee ahead of him, Ray Arcel above him, a great many. 

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Yes, he lost. But he didn't care about boxing at that point. He ONLY fought because the IRS was on him, he owed money. It was the easiest way to get them off his back. But Mike didn't care about boxing or training at that time. Honestly, the last time Mike probably took boxing/training seriously was before the 2nd Ruddock fight, at least when I watch his career, that's how I see it. Even those Ruddock fights are NOT the best of Tyson, but they DO show that Mike can win a fight when faced with serious adversity (despite what some of his critics say). Every fight after the Holyfield fights you can see a steady decline in skills. Was some of it due to age? Yes. But Mike was still young enough, that if he REALLY wanted to (dedicate himself to training), he could have and should have beaten both Holyfield and Lewis. But he didn't, and those two trained for the fight of their lives (I'm sure). You can say "I'm just making excuses." But the proof is in the pudding, how does Mike look better at 54 than he did at 38? Because he is actually trying now, that's the difference. 

Lacking commitment is hardly a good reference...and even less of an excuse to explain why a guy got tanked.  And no, he doesn't look better now that he did at 38, he just doesn't.

1 hour ago, spunko12345 said:

 

I couldnt have put it in a more revolting way if I tried 😄

I plan to write childrens books someday  

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I didn't mean now. 

The argument is about now, no one in their right mind would argue Wilder over Tyson in his prime, Tyson would shake him off like drippings off the end of his dick.

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Without positing any theories as to why, boxing is certifiably the most nostalgic sport of all - at least among the sports I follow. All sports are nostalgic but no sport seems to exist with such a then and now. 

It always did, its nothing knew, I remee during the 90s golden era (Lewis Bowe Tyson Holyfield Roy Jones James Toney Etc etc etc, i could go on for yonks) my old mans generation saying they weren’t shit compared to the 60s and 70s.