thunderram

While not "drop D" tuning, for pretty most, if not all, all of GN'R's recordings through 1994, the guitars were tuned a half step down. So instead of the standard E-A-D-G-B-E they were all flats of the same tuning. Which means the low E was really a E flat or D sharp (however one wants to interpret it). Which also means the low E was only a half step above a D. That's one reason why GN'R's early stuff sounds a tad differently. The half step down tuning changes the chords/keys, so to speak.

To the contrary, I've seen interviews where SLASH claims to have a decent or good "rock" voice but that he just doesn't like to sing. From what I recall, this was a question posed to him frequently when the first Snakepit album released. Or perhaps when "the Project" was still seeking a lead singer. Or perhaps on both occasions.

You should equally doubt that it happened and not completely ink her as being truthful, either. I mean, don't these things work both ways? Just because fans know a little bit about AXL's personality and past doesn't make him guilty. Or even more likely to be guilty. By that rationale, any man that has ever had temper issues or PTSD or bipolar disorder or whatever -- should be assumed to have assaulted and raped someone at some point during their past, right? Quick, someone go arrest Draymond Green ASAP! He's surely done something like this, judging solely from his quick trigger and long history of erratic and combative behavior in public view. Hell, go arrest EVERY single combat sport athlete while your at it! Furthermore, nobody knows much, if anything, about the complainant. For all anybody knows, perhaps she was crazier, more erratic and more unreliable than AXL ever was. Then what? Did any of you bother following the accusations against former Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer? Everyone damned him, too, yet a couple years later lots of info has come to light proving that the woman lied, tried to get others to lie, and set all of it up. There are text messages confessing to how she planned to set Bauer up and how he was going to be her next victim. There's even video evidence of her physical appearance the day of the supposed crime (captured by her) where there's not a single mark on her and she's mocking him by showing him sleeping. A little over 5-years ago former 49ers linebacker Reuben Foster's ex-girlfriend admitted to a court that she lied about an alleged domestic violence incident to get the him in trouble because she was upset with him. And former Dallas Cowboys RB Ezekiel Elliott was falsely accused of several incidents by his former girlfriend in which she tried to coax friends of hers to lie and it was proven false due to multiple witnesses testifying that they were present at the alleged time of the crimes and that nothing happened. Point is, there are a myriad of women that lie about these things. With no conscience about it whatsoever. Perhaps as many that actually commit these types of crimes. Who knows? Assuming that most of these women are to be believed is just as silly as believing that most the men are innocent. Point is, you can't know anything to a certainty by knowing a little bit about a person's history. And especially when not knowing anything about the other party. People with volatile or checkered histories are especially targeted because most everyone is going to assume they are guilty. And the people targeting them are fully aware of this. And assume they'll settle.

Well, then it just HAS to be true then. Many people suffer from mental health and temper issues yet never rape or assault anyone. Furthermore, being accused by multiple parties doesn't automatically equal guilt either. You many not be aware of this, but celebrities, the wealthy, and other high-profile types are highly targeted and accused of things like this. For clear and obvious reasons/motives. Often by multiple parties, as it's easier to believe the more that claim it. That doesn't mean all accusations are untrue, of course, as many are indeed true. But many are also false. Connecting dots and making assumptions as you've done here isn't how this works. I mean, one could easily do the same thing you've done in reverse and saying "by a non-wealthy woman also suffering from mental health issues that waited 34 years and on the eve of a deadline made possible by circumventing the previous laws regarding statutes". Someone could easily connect the dots and say she's full of absolute shit. But they'd be no more correct. Because none of really know what, if anything, happened.

Unlike you, apparently, I'm not a monkey dancing to the directions of others. But go ahead and be proud of "following directions". I decided to go with the "flow" of the discussion. Sorry (not really) if that triggered you. Besides, the title of the thread is ambiguous and not so specific. Now, go on and police all the other threads to make sure everyone is on point, following directions, and answering exactly what is asked. That should keep you busy for a long while -- since you're clearly bored and have nothing better to do with your time. And I'll be sure to mock and ridicule you the very next time you don't stay on topic and respond to somebody else in the thread that did the same.

I've never heard anyone else mention that solo, but I've always loved it. Especially the note you're referencing that occurs with the chord change. When cranked up loudly, it just hits something within me. SLASH uses that same method on a few other songs and it always has the same effect on me. WRT his Snakepit material, I especially love the solos from Back and Forth, Beggars, Ain't Life Grand, Back to the Moment, Serial Killer, and Speed Parade. WRT his SMKC and solo material, I especially love the solos from Far and Away, Anastasia, Crazy Life, and Starlight. And last but not least from the GN'R catalogue, I especially love Brownstone, PC, SCOM, RQ, You're Crazy Acoustic, Patience, Don't Cry, NR, Coma, and Estranged. IDK that I could ever decide upon an absolute favorite or best ever recorded, as there are countless live performances I could also name, but for today only --- I suppose I'd say the "Coma" solo. But that opinion ebbs and flows and changes constantly.

It's hilarious that anyone actually believes there's a definitive answer to subjective opinion. Many of what are considered by the masses to be among the most technically gifted singers/musicians aren't among the most popular to listen to. There are good reasons for that. Sometimes the style of music isn't widely popular. Sometimes it's just something about their unique sound the masses just don't gravitate to. So, if the masses don't care for it, then how can it they be the "best"? Majority opinion is what determines what is good, great, elite, bad or terrible. Not fringe opinions from those that believe they know better than everyone else. Majority opinion is what qualifies the likes of The Beatles and Rolling Stones among the greatest bands of all-time. Same goes for Eddie Van Halen, Jimi Hendrix, and Eric Clapton among the greatest guitarists of all-time. When it comes to 'lil ol GN'R and their long line of drummers, there's really not any evidence out there to support one being greater than the other. Just subjective opinion based upon the individual listener's own musical tastes and preference. Judging from the album sales isn't really a fair way to determine it, as lots of factors beyond drumming go into it. While I'd say that several of GN'R's post-AFD drummers were subjectively better drummers in terms of technique, that doesn't qualify them as better drummers on the whole. Nor does "groove" or "feel" qualify Steven as better than the others. Again, it boils down to what the individual listener values more. For me, while I believe that Matt Sorum was a better overall drummer than Steven Adler, my rankings would be as follows: Adler > Sorum > Everyone else. While the various drummers from the CD era were all good or great in their own right, they're individual styles just weren't my cup of tea. And their individual styles didn't mesh as well with the "classic" era, or prime, of GN'R as either Adler or Sorum. It worked for what AXL was doing in the late 90's and early 2000's. Better than Sorum or Adler would have been for that music. Same logic applies IMO to Gilby Clarke and his guitar style. It was better suited for AFD/LIES/UYI era stuff than any of the CD era guitarists would have been and vice versa.

Funniest thing I've read all day.

Let's hope so. It's pretty funny (and ironic) how stuck in the past AXL seems to be with all the CD leftovers. I mean, this is a guy that once semi-mocked AFD and how he wanted to move on from it and bury it. Sure wish he had the same attitude toward all this content that was created and worked on 20+ years ago. I mean, if he's really hellbent on resurrecting unfinished projects from the ancient past, the "Lost Illusions" era stuff makes more sense to dig up and work on given the current cast of the band. I'm not advocating for that, just saying it makes more sense than convincing SLASH and DUFF work on projects they had nothing to do with originally and that represents a genre/style of music they were never into creating in the first place.

100% truth.

Stuck in 1990. That's funny. I suppose any music fan that loves the Beatles or Hendrix is "stuck in the 60's", right? I got some sad news for you. GN'R was a much, much, much better band back in 1990 than they are today. Even despite their various problems back then. Enjoying a bands prime and most creative, best sounding era doesn't qualify anybody as stuck. You're the "crazy" one if you believe otherwise.

Because that's exactly what it is. It'd have been no different had SLASH released the Snakepit albums using the GN'R brand name (had he wrestled the rights to the name away instead of AXL). Or if DUFF or IZZY had the rights to the GN'R name and released "Believe in Me" or the Ju Ju Hounds album using it. Had AXL done what you suggest, CD most certainly would have been judged much differently. Hell, pretty much every well-known musician in the industry shook their head in derision once they discovered that AXL was using the GN'R brand name after proper GN'R dissolved and to eventually release the CD album. Everyone knew that was a bait and switch tactic (and utter joke) except AXL. All of the CD era band members not named "AXL" are no more legit GN'R members than Gary Cherone was part of Van Halen.

A valid argument can be made that they were a superior band. Everything is subjective, we all know that. But from my own POV, many of the musicians I know and have come across and have read quotes from respect the likes of AIC and Soundgarden more than Nirvana. The difference is the timing and impact of Cobain’s tragic death. It exaggerated and immortalized him and that band. To a degree, you can say the same about Jimmy Hendrix. And even though he’s not a musician, the same applies to Bruce Lee. Full disclosure, I’m a fan of all three fallen stars. I’m just being objective and real about it.

I wouldn’t go as far as saying “most overrated”, but there’s absolutely no doubt that his tragic death at the peak of Nirvana’s short lived existence is the reason why that band and specifically Cobain have been immortalized. I mean, there are those that claim GN’R doesn’t have the catalog to be considered among the greatest bands of all time. Well, what about Nirvana?? They released fewer albums and songs than GN’R and didn’t have the same number of hits. Yet they get the same or even greater acclaim?? At least to whatever extent GN’R is overrated, it ain’t because one of the primary band members died tragically and at a young age. Furthermore, as far as Cobain is concerned, not only was he not much of a singer or guitarist, he wasn’t even the most talented musician or song writer from that band. Dave Grohl has proven as much. Grohl has more talent in his left pinkie than Cobain ever had. Cobain’s major talent was being at the right place at the right time with a unique twangy voice. Had he not died young and tragically, he’d never be remembered the same way.

I’m not hearing anything exciting in this new tune. At all. But that’s just me. Having said that, seeing everyone else in this thread liking it and being excited over it is rather cool, actually.

And most likely those one or two fans would have been born in the late 90's or 2000's and not really "original" GN'R fans to begin with. That's what AXL using the GN'R brand to release CD did --- it confused a lot of people. Had he just used his own name or a different band name as SLASH, DUFF, and IZZY all did, these younger kids wouldn't be claiming to be GN'R fans so much. Because many of them aren't. They are largely fans of AXL and/or the supporting cast that helped create that one album. The fact that all those revolving band members from 1996-2015 are attached to the GN'R brand name just muddies up everything. That said, I think the percentage of both casual and hardcore fans dating back to the 1985-1993 era that prefer CD are very, very low. Hell, I know many casual fans that are unaware that CD even exists. They couldn't name one song title.

IDK, some in this thread would counter and just say they are "more mature" (like their lyrics, allegedly).

So are some of you unable to comprehend what you read? This is like the 3rd or 4th time someone has made the same comment you have here. Where exactly is the disconnect? Tommy didn't just provide his opinion, he further stated that his opinion would eventuality become the historical, mainstream view. That's the statement most are taking issue with, not his individual opinion. Were you really unable to glean that? Sure, you can double down and claim that it is also his opinion that the historical mainstream view will eventually change. But it's based upon nothing factual or concrete. I mean, I can say it is my opinion that the sky will eventually appear purple. But unless it is based upon something substantial and real, it's not really an opinion. It's just silly talk. If I said right now that eventually the mainstream will view GN'R as more impactful and greater than the Beatles, can I really hand my hat on that being my opinion or just super wishful, fantasy land day dreaming not backup by a single measurable thing?

This is like the 3rd time I've seen this statement made. Time for you guys to show your work and how you've come to this conclusion. Based upon what exactly? And are you strictly talking about lyrics?? Cause it's a really odd thing to claim about the instrumental music, which really can't be quantified. Even the same can be said about judging the lyrics. People go through many changes over their life span, which obviously affects how they write. But simply being older and more experienced doesn't necessarily equate to greater maturity. If anything it often just speaks to softening over time. So, please cite valid reasons why CD is more mature than any of AFD, LIES, or UYI. And please don't say it's "because you just like the lyrics better".

No, he is not right. He and you are both wrong. You (and he) are only right when it comes to your own subjective opinions. Nothing beyond that. However, since you clearly lack the ability to understand what you read, let me recap again. Stinson didn't just state his own opinion, he further stated that it would eventually become the mainstream opinion from a historical perspective. He didn't use those exact words, of course, but that is essentially what he predicted. There is literally no evidence to support a vast change of mainstream opinion. And we're already 15 years removed from the release of CD. Try finding ONE reputable publication that lists CD above AFD, or even UYI, or anywhere near a top 100 list. Having said that, I can provide my strong subjective opinion too. I won't even bother comparing CD to the widely adopted masterpiece AFD. Instead I'll emphatically state that there is far more brilliance to be found among the 29 tunes spread across both UYI albums (not including "My World") than the 14 overly re-worked CD songs. Even standing upon their own individual merit, each UYI album is superior to CD. Not only did they each contain a few hits (by your own admission) -- which is something CD never achieved -- even many of the deep cuts such as Coma, Locomotive, RNTDH, and Breakdown (just to name a few) rival or exceed the very best CD has to offer.

Yes, it is subjective and certainly personal taste for Tommy to prefer AXL's solo album to GN'R's actual catalog. However, it is neither of those things to predict that CD will be view historically by the mainstream (not just himself) as the best album released using the GN'R brand. That's just pure insanity not at all based upon anything factual or tangible.

^^ Now this is a self-aware response. Knowing that your opinion in no way represents the mainstream and more than likely never will. If Tommy would have made the same statement but positioned it only as his own opinion -- good, great, grand, wonderful. However suggesting that it would become the mainstream view is what took the statement way over the top.

The one thing I agree with is that I've always felt CD would be more appreciated as time goes on. It is a very interesting and good record. Just underappreciated due to the long, overwhelming anticipation, delays, and drastically changing mainstream music scene. But in terms of being looked at as GN'R's best record by the masses? He's fucking stoned. And overly biased, clearly. I understand that everyone has their own opinion, and there are certainly many that are fans of CD over all the other GN'R albums. But they are of a vast minority. This is proven by sales and streams, among many other factors. Stinson's comments are meant to encompass not just his own opinion, but eventually those of the masses. In that regard he is way out in left field. I also get that there are some like Stinson that appreciate the lyrics contained within CD more than the other albums. But lyrics alone do not qualify one record as better than another. That's just silly talk. Belittling AFD or some of the tunes on the UYI albums because some of the song lyrics talk about drug addiction rather than emotional baggage and break ups is just nonsensical. AFD is widely regarded as one of the greatest hard rock records of all time. While the UYI albums don't own the same overall prestige, there are numerous songs on those albums (and the LIES EP) that are far more appreciated and respected by the masses than anything on CD. Thinking that'll ever change is beyond wishful thinking. Exactly. That's beyond fantasy land. It won't even be viewed as their 2nd or 3rd best record, except by a smaller niche group of fans. FWIW, I'm a big fan of the CD record. But I personally have never considered it an actual GN'R record. Because it isn't. CD is no different than SLASH, IZZY, and DUFF's solo albums or their collaborations with other lineups, such as Loaded, Velvet Revolver, or SMKC. The only difference is that AXL had the rights to brand his solo work (or new band work) with the GN'R name and the other guys didn't. That's it. I mean, had IZZY, DUFF or SLASH managed to wrestle away the rights to the GN'R name then stamped it on any of the official records they released w/o AXL -- it wouldn't be any different. They'd just be solo or new band albums leveraging the GN'R brand name to try to attract more attention. Essentially using the bait and switch tactic. In reality, Velvet Revolver had more GN'R ingredients to it (especially when IZZY was first involved with "the Project") than NuGN'R ever did. But it still wouldn't have been an actual GN'R record w/o AXL. Same goes for AXL's lineup w/o a single other core GN'R member. If Stinson or anyone else wants to make the argument that CD is or will be viewed as the best album made by any GN'R member after the breakup of the band, that would at least be a valid argument. But even if myself and the masses were to concede CD as a true GN'R album, I find it super disingenuous to state that it will eventually be considered (by the masses) to be GN'R's best record. Furthermore, I find it no coincidence that Stinson would state that the only record he had anything to do with is the best work of said band. Somebody is suffering from an overinflated ego and/or a complete lack of awareness of the historical impact of GN'R's earlier catalog, specifically AFD. Pretty much most the lyrics on every album they ever released were personal. Even the lyrics written by the other band members, such as IZZY. Writing about your own drug addition or the addition of others you are close to is pretty personal, no? Does Stinson really believe the only way to write great lyrics or deeply personal content is to write about current or past relationships? If so, I suppose that Stinson is a HUGE Taylor Swift fan, cause that's all she does! Just off the top of my head, I'd rank the lyrics of songs such as Coma, SCOM, Don't Cry, RNDTH, Don't Damn Me, Civil War, Rocket Queen, Yesterdays, Breakdown, Locomotive and Estranged over anything off CD.

No offense intended, but anybody that truly believes CD is a better album than either of the UYI albums isn't really so much of a GN'R fan as they are a fan of AXL and/or the supporting cast of that lone album. You aren't going to find many, if any, hardcore fans of the original and UYI lineups that would share the opinion. The overwhelming majority that share your opinion are younger fans that didn't discover GN'R until this millennium or really weren't huge fans of the band beforehand. You clearly fit into the former, since you were only 10 when you discovered CD. That's no slight to you or anyone else sharing your opinion. Everyone has a different experience when music was imprinted upon them. I just find it interesting how many (primarily) NuGNR fans there actually are on this forum.

Agreed, it is a terrible comparison. However, it is also fair to point out that Brian Johnson, at that moment in time, was completely unknown and hadn't been able to forge a big career on his own. Instead, he joined a band that had already built up a huge brand w/o him and with a legend in Bon Scott. Also, much of what became Back in Black was largely developed by Angus and Malcolm and even Mutt Lange. While Johnson's vocals and lyrics were also instrumental in its success, let's not pretend that it would have ever happened w/o the stage already being set well before he landed that gig.