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2 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

I think the question is was the sex consensual?., axl wasnt there so hes going on heresay. I think steven aludes that it was....or was all of this bullshit and a reason for axl to get rid of steven?.

Almost killing her would be enough reason to get rid of him. And don't forget the fact that according to everyone around at the time (except for Steven and his brother), Steven wasn't capable of playing.

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1 minute ago, Lio said:

Almost killing her would be enough reason to get rid of him. And don't forget the fact that according to everyone around at the time (except for Steven and his brother), Steven wasn't capable of playing.

Agree on that. Although im surprised with the history of erin and steven im surprised axl invited him to the nitl shows if axl felt strongly about the od situation back in the day.

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Could this have been what set off ol' Niven?

Goldstein also discussed Adler suing the band, and how that hurt the possibility of him coming back after his dismissal in 1990.

“I think that had he not sued everybody, it would have been a possibility, but once that was thrown out there, it’s amazing, once you have to reach into your own pocket to spend money for legal defense, and those are big numbers. I personally spent $500,000. We settled on the court room steps, which means we didn’t wait for the jury to comeback. When you do that, they do what’s called a jury debriefing, so my attorney, god rest his soul, Howard King got to go first and the jury foreman stood up and said, ‘The only question we have is, is your client married?’ My lawyer said, ‘I don’t understand the relevance.’

He said, ‘This guy didn’t do anything wrong, we want him to marry our daughters. All he did was try to save the guy’s life.’ Then [Alan] Niven’s attorney came up, and they were going to crucify Niven, because he was at the helm of it. The band didn’t know, the band was following the lead of the manager and the attorney. Literally all I was doing was taking Steven to different rehabs and trying to get him clean.”

 

https://www.alternativenation.net/guns-n-roses-money-splits-revealed-ugly-lawsuit-spent-500000/

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23 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The Guardian article has many inaccuracies, but the Ross Halfin quotes are interesting.

The story also originates from Steven himself, who blamed the McCoy's (Andy and Angela) for telling Axl that. Andy McCoy has implied it in his book (that Steven might have done that). Niven himself also has said that "Axl was  convinced that Erin was raped and drugged" (quote in Mick Wall's 2016 book, probably taken from unedited 2011 interview).

Am I misremembering or did Zoot also have a run-in with Erin Everly? Didn't he say once that Erin was one of the first things Axl wanted to talk about with him during the CD sessions?

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5 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Agree on that. Although im surprised with the history of erin and steven im surprised axl invited him to the nitl shows if axl felt strongly about the od situation back in the day.

Yeah, I don't know, obviously, but Steven did say Axl didn't say anything to him or he only saw him two seconds or something like that. It seems to be more like Axl barely tolerating Steven. But again, I'm just speculating, of course.

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5 minutes ago, Lio said:

Yeah, I don't know, obviously, but Steven did say Axl didn't say anything to him or he only saw him two seconds or something like that. It seems to be more like Axl barely tolerating Steven. But again, I'm just speculating, of course.

Probably seems right. This isnt something axl would have contemplated doing allowing steven into the band before the nitl tour. We could say axl was doing this for the fans, but i think alot of ill will from the past with axl will ever allow an afd5 reunion.  I think the 2 things, steven suing , an erin seems to be the 2 things axl has potentially never gotten over.

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9 hours ago, Lio said:

Andy McCoy, that's him. I remember reading that. Where he was telling the whole story about Steven standing there just smiling stupidly while they were trying to get to Erin to help her, as she was locked in a bedroom? I don't know if I ever read about him having sex with her, but the OD I remember. It seemed quite a plausible story to me.

Yes, that's more or less what Andy McCoy says in his book:

http://www.a-4-d.com/t3694-2009-mm-dd-excerpts-from-sheriff-mccoy-outlaw-legend-of-hanoi-rocks-by-andy-mccoy

Steven had done an interview in 2005 blaming Angela (McCoy's wife and Izzy's ex-girlfriend) for giving Erin drugs and telling Axl that Steven had given them to her:

http://www.a-4-d.com/t3652-2005-01-14-rock-confidential-interview-with-steven

And Angela had replied with an e-mail I think saying that Erin was naked in Steven's bed.

Also another Steven one in 2006

http://www.a-4-d.com/t3591-2006-01-17-23-25-metal-sludge-20-questions-with-x-gnr-drummer-steven-adler-i-ii-iii

For the record, my opinion is that none of them have told the full truth.

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

Could this have been what set off ol' Niven?

Goldstein also discussed Adler suing the band, and how that hurt the possibility of him coming back after his dismissal in 1990.

“I think that had he not sued everybody, it would have been a possibility, but once that was thrown out there, it’s amazing, once you have to reach into your own pocket to spend money for legal defense, and those are big numbers. I personally spent $500,000. We settled on the court room steps, which means we didn’t wait for the jury to comeback. When you do that, they do what’s called a jury debriefing, so my attorney, god rest his soul, Howard King got to go first and the jury foreman stood up and said, ‘The only question we have is, is your client married?’ My lawyer said, ‘I don’t understand the relevance.’

He said, ‘This guy didn’t do anything wrong, we want him to marry our daughters. All he did was try to save the guy’s life.’ Then [Alan] Niven’s attorney came up, and they were going to crucify Niven, because he was at the helm of it. The band didn’t know, the band was following the lead of the manager and the attorney. Literally all I was doing was taking Steven to different rehabs and trying to get him clean.”

 

https://www.alternativenation.net/guns-n-roses-money-splits-revealed-ugly-lawsuit-spent-500000/

This is after the Mitch Lafon with Niven, so expect an new Niven one soon :lol:

EDIT: Sorry, I just noticed that it's from Dougie's interview with the other podcast, not the new one. So maybe yeah, Niven might have been set off by that. I've lost count with the so many interviews these guys have been doing :lol:

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

Am I misremembering or did Zoot also have a run-in with Erin Everly? Didn't he say once that Erin was one of the first things Axl wanted to talk about with him during the CD sessions?

Yeah. It was also reported back in 1991 that Axl didn't want Zutaut around during the UYI sessions. It might have had to do with that, but there's also another rumour for the potential reason.

9 hours ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

That book by Mick Wall is the best book about GN'R I've read to date.

To me the only thing that's worthy in the book are the interviews with Niven and Goldstein, other than that it's not good.

I think the only GnR books, as far as biographies go, that are worth reading are the Marc Canter one, the Raz Cue one and, of course, the autobiographies.

 

Edited by Blackstar
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1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Agreed. Seems like Adler's firing was inevitable by then regardless of what may or may not have happened with Erin. I think the "Adler having sex with Erin" story originates from Ross Halfin right? 

"Then the record went huge, and off they went, like a rollercoaster," says Halfin. "All that ego started coming from Alan Niven - his view was 'fuck everyone', and that rubbed off on Axl. His insecurity just became this massive ego."

In 1990, he fired Steven Adler (Halfin claims, because Adler had sex with Rose's fiancée Erin Everly, then shot her full of heroin), and put the other members under contract.

In late 1991, Izzy Stradlin left when he was told he could no longer step forward when taking a guitar solo -- :lol:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2004/mar/13/popandrock.gunsnroses

I really don't remember Izzy ever doing a solo anyway.

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1 hour ago, RONIN said:

He didn't become GnR's manager until '91 but he was in the inner circle from the late-AFD period onwards iirc. Niven seems to be suggesting that Doug played a more prominent role in Steven's ouster than we previously thought - which doesn't seem all that far fetched  I suppose given how Goldstein operates.

 

I think Doug before become in manager was Axl bodyguard.

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1 hour ago, Sydney Fan said:

Ah so that was where the stravinsky brothers name came from. Thanks soulmonster. I remember seeing that name i think in the appetite liner notes and wondered what that name referred to.

Stravinsky Brothers existed before Goldstein got into the picture (he was hired in 1987) and Niven was both Stravinsky Brothers :lol: Later, as @SoulMonster said, Goldstein was upgraded and became co-partner in Stravisky Bros and co-manager of the band.

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8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

For the record, my opinion is that none of them has told the full truth.
 

Probably none of them are innocent, neither is Erin for that matter. I don't think anyone ever said she was forced to take drugs and she was a grown woman, not an innocent child either. So they probably all have some responsibility/guilt.

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10 hours ago, Creed said:

 

Erin was very childish back in the day...so take it with a big grain of salt. Adler giving her heroine...maybe. Having sex with her? only under the influence of heavy drugs like heroine. but raping her? no way. Axl would have killed and banned him 4ever.

 

 

11 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Steven is the founding and best drummer of GNR. But if he drugged and raped Erin I can't possibly comprehend why Axl should get any flak for firing him. I mean that's the kind of stuff you might kill someone over.

I think in this case laws would have intervened, if that story was true

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On 1/7/2019 at 3:02 PM, RONIN said:

Could this have been what set off ol' Niven?

Goldstein also discussed Adler suing the band, and how that hurt the possibility of him coming back after his dismissal in 1990.

“I think that had he not sued everybody, it would have been a possibility, but once that was thrown out there, it’s amazing, once you have to reach into your own pocket to spend money for legal defense, and those are big numbers. I personally spent $500,000. We settled on the court room steps, which means we didn’t wait for the jury to comeback. When you do that, they do what’s called a jury debriefing, so my attorney, god rest his soul, Howard King got to go first and the jury foreman stood up and said, ‘The only question we have is, is your client married?’ My lawyer said, ‘I don’t understand the relevance.’

He said, ‘This guy didn’t do anything wrong, we want him to marry our daughters. All he did was try to save the guy’s life.’ Then [Alan] Niven’s attorney came up, and they were going to crucify Niven, because he was at the helm of it. The band didn’t know, the band was following the lead of the manager and the attorney. Literally all I was doing was taking Steven to different rehabs and trying to get him clean.”

 

https://www.alternativenation.net/guns-n-roses-money-splits-revealed-ugly-lawsuit-spent-500000/

Today, Alan Niven has responded to Doug’s claims and wrote:

“1/. The case was not settled on the steps of the court. It was settled immediately before the jury retired, after two weeks of hearings in front of the judge.

2/. Adler’s attorneys offered a settlement of $375,000 after approximately one week of the case being heard – they were concerned they were losing the case. Goldstein and Rose rejected the offer. Thereafter Goldstein and Rose took the stand. At the conclusion of the case I had lunch with the entire jury. They informed me they thought Goldstein was a phony and were amused at his crocodile tears on the stand. They disliked Axl intensely, who seemed medicated and thus cold … these two shifted the case into Adler’s favor.

3/. Goldstein was covered by a litigation insurance that also protected the band. I had put that in place. His claim of paying $500,000 is bullshit.

4/. Subsequent to Rose and Goldstein testimony in court the settlement became something in the order of $2,750,000, from the band and Goldstein. I was tapped for a relatively modest $175,000 – if there was any crucifixion it was of Rose and Goldstein. I further paid over $300,000 in legal fees, out of my own pocket, at the mercy of the actions of Rose and Goldstein.

5/. Yes indeed, that Steven received composing royalties was something of a gift – the policy was that while one was a member of the band one would benefit from all moneys being shared – one for all and all for one. If you left the band and were not a writer than the privilege ended. This method was used by lots of bands – the idea being to prevent arguments over money destroying band chemistry. Van Halen, for example, did the same. The Boomtown Rats famously lost the plot and fell apart because there was no composing royalty sharing and after the first publishing royalties arrived everyone wanted to be a writer. Sometimes its in everyone’s best interest to share.

No one enforced this on anyone in the band – it was accepted and understood well before Goldstein was employed as tour manager. It was their decision, including Axl. I considered that the band bent and made a gift to Axl that he received a larger share. If anyone actually deserved a larger share it was Izzy.

The fact that Steven sued and benefitted was not appropriate or just. He’d received composing monies he did not have a legal right to. What is more Doug had indeed kept him alive. According to Doug, Adler’s own attorney stated at deposition that Goldstein should have let him die of an overdose. We all worked hard to keep everyone alive. Slash even went turkey in my spare bedroom – I cleaned the vomit from his mouth and counted out the valium. The problem is that once you go to a jury it is generally understood the case becomes basically a beauty pageant – who does the jury like? They didn’t like Rose and Goldstein.

Anyhow, as regards hubris and greed, we need look no further than the fact Axl cut Izzy and Steven out of the recent tour and took the lions share of all income.

As regards Goldstein, Axl’s butt boy, if his lips are moving most likely he’s lying. Ask him about how he participated in the stealing of the name, copyrights and trade marks from the other band members. We all know who had their hands on the helm.

To have been betrayed by G Swine was bad enough … to have to hear or read of him now is anathema.

Regards

AN”

https://metalheadzone.com/ex-guns-n-roses-manager-alan-niven-responds-to-claims-against-himself/

Edited by RONIN
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4 hours ago, RONIN said:

Today, Alan Niven has responded to Doug’s claims and wrote:

“1/. The case was not settled on the steps of the court. It was settled immediately before the jury retired, after two weeks of hearings in front of the judge.

2/. Adler’s attorneys offered a settlement of $375,000 after approximately one week of the case being heard – they were concerned they were losing the case. Goldstein and Rose rejected the offer. Thereafter Goldstein and Rose took the stand. At the conclusion of the case I had lunch with the entire jury. They informed me they thought Goldstein was a phony and were amused at his crocodile tears on the stand. They disliked Axl intensely, who seemed medicated and thus cold … these two shifted the case into Adler’s favor.

3/. Goldstein was covered by a litigation insurance that also protected the band. I had put that in place. His claim of paying $500,000 is bullshit.

4/. Subsequent to Rose and Goldstein testimony in court the settlement became something in the order of $2,750,000, from the band and Goldstein. I was tapped for a relatively modest $175,000 – if there was any crucifixion it was of Rose and Goldstein. I further paid over $300,000 in legal fees, out of my own pocket, at the mercy of the actions of Rose and Goldstein.

5/. Yes indeed, that Steven received composing royalties was something of a gift – the policy was that while one was a member of the band one would benefit from all moneys being shared – one for all and all for one. If you left the band and were not a writer than the privilege ended. This method was used by lots of bands – the idea being to prevent arguments over money destroying band chemistry. Van Halen, for example, did the same. The Boomtown Rats famously lost the plot and fell apart because there was no composing royalty sharing and after the first publishing royalties arrived everyone wanted to be a writer. Sometimes its in everyone’s best interest to share.

No one enforced this on anyone in the band – it was accepted and understood well before Goldstein was employed as tour manager. It was their decision, including Axl. I considered that the band bent and made a gift to Axl that he received a larger share. If anyone actually deserved a larger share it was Izzy.

The fact that Steven sued and benefitted was not appropriate or just. He’d received composing monies he did not have a legal right to. What is more Doug had indeed kept him alive. According to Doug, Adler’s own attorney stated at deposition that Goldstein should have let him die of an overdose. We all worked hard to keep everyone alive. Slash even went turkey in my spare bedroom – I cleaned the vomit from his mouth and counted out the valium. The problem is that once you go to a jury it is generally understood the case becomes basically a beauty pageant – who does the jury like? They didn’t like Rose and Goldstein.

Anyhow, as regards hubris and greed, we need look no further than the fact Axl cut Izzy and Steven out of the recent tour and took the lions share of all income.

As regards Goldstein, Axl’s butt boy, if his lips are moving most likely he’s lying. Ask him about how he participated in the stealing of the name, copyrights and trade marks from the other band members. We all know who had their hands on the helm.

To have been betrayed by G Swine was bad enough … to have to hear or read of him now is anathema.

Regards

AN”

https://metalheadzone.com/ex-guns-n-roses-manager-alan-niven-responds-to-claims-against-himself/

You can say want you want about alan, but he has a memory like an elephant if the above is true.

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22 hours ago, RONIN said:

Today, Alan Niven has responded to Doug’s claims and wrote:

[...]

"4/. Subsequent to Rose and Goldstein testimony in court the settlement became something in the order of $2,750,000, from the band and Goldstein. I was tapped for a relatively modest $175,000 – if there was any crucifixion it was of Rose and Goldstein. I further paid over $300,000 in legal fees, out of my own pocket, at the mercy of the actions of Rose and Goldstein."

The amounts as reported at the time by AP and Billboard magazine:

Former Guns N’ Roses drummer Steven Adler, who was thrown out of the band because he couldn’t kick his heroin habit, got a $2.5 million settlement yesterday in a lawsuit filed against the group and managers.

The agreement, reached shortly before the lawsuit would have gone to the Superior Court jury, awarded Adler $2.3 million from the band, $150,000 from ex-manager Alan Niven and $50,000 from manager Doug Goldstein. [Assosiated Press, Sept. 25, 1993]

So, unless the reports were inaccurate, it seems that the amount Goldstein had to pay was much smaller than Niven's (the legal fees are another matter).

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19 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The amounts as reported at the time by AP and Billboard magazine:

Former Guns N’ Roses drummer Steven Adler, who was thrown out of the band because he couldn’t kick his heroin habit, got a $2.5 million settlement yesterday in a lawsuit filed against the group and managers.

 

The agreement, reached shortly before the lawsuit would have gone to the Superior Court jury, awarded Adler $2.3 million from the band, $150,000 from ex-manager Alan Niven and $50,000 from manager Doug Goldstein. [Assosiated Press, Sept. 25, 1993]

 

So, unless the reports were inaccurate, it seems that the amount Goldstein had to pay was much smaller than Niven's (the legal fees are another matter).

Do you trust anything Goldstein has to say. 

I reckon his over exaggerating it again.

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