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On 30/12/2019 at 10:43 PM, Live Like a Suicide said:

Imagine being a shitty manager and having everything handed to you in life because your mother was a rich person's housekeeper.

Not sure what that has to do with anything interms of what Beta did in the past. But hey if you want to treat housekeepers with little respect or not wanting to appreciate a person who wants to do better in life, than that's up to you. I would suggest that's more of a reflection on you than Beta or her family. It might actually be the case, that Axl has people around him, who he believes has his best interests in mind not self-interest. I would also suggest that's why Niven,Goldstein, Mercuriadis, Azoff and McGhee were shown the door by Rose. 

I would suggest, when you have been mislead and taken advantage of, you surround yourself with the people you trust

Its the natural thing to do in life for any situation that involves trust issues. 

Of course, it might be possible, that the current band management in place, his kept the bad influences at arms length,  that has resulted in the much happier and content Axl Rose we now see on stage. That Axl Rose appearing and that time line seems to fit in, with when the current band management team took over from past managers shown the door. 

Edited by kiwiguns
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1 hour ago, kiwiguns said:

Not sure what that has to do with anything interms of what Beta did in the past. But hey if you want to treat housekeepers with little respect or not wanting to appreciate a person who wants to do better in life, than that's up to you. I would suggest that's more of a reflection on you than Beta or her family. It might actually be the case, that Axl has people around him, who he believes has his best interests in mind not self-interest. I would also suggest that's why Niven,Goldstein, Mercuriadis, Azoff and McGhee were shown the door by Rose. 

I would suggest, when you have been mislead and taken advantage of, you surround yourself with the people you trust

Its the natural thing to do in life for any situation that involves trust issues. 

Of course, it might be possible, that the current band management in place, his kept the bad influences at arms length,  that has resulted in the much happier and content Axl Rose we now see on stage. That Axl Rose appearing and that time line seems to fit in, with when the current band management team took over from past managers shown the door. 

Come on.

Beta was the housekeeper/nanny for Stephanie, and soon latched onto Axl. If it wasn't for her position, she would never have made it into Axl's inner circle, let alone become his manager, with her son later to follow. Fernando is lucky he popped out of Beta and not some other housekeeper. It's as simple as that. 

I don't disagree that Axl may be content with Team Brazil. In fact, i think it is clear that Beta was an emotional crutch for Axl during and after the band's collapse. However, this has no bearing on the fact that Team Brazil are shitty managers and have no community engagement skills. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

Come on.

Beta was the housekeeper/nanny for Stephanie, and soon latched onto Axl. If it wasn't for her position, she would never have made it into Axl's inner circle, let alone become his manager, with her son later to follow. Fernando is lucky he popped out of Beta and not some other housekeeper. It's as simple as that. 

I don't disagree that Axl may be content with Team Brazil. In fact, i think it is clear that Beta was an emotional crutch for Axl during and after the band's collapse. However, this has no bearing on the fact that Team Brazil are shitty managers and have no community engagement skills. 

 

And Axl started out as a juvenile delinquent slumming on the streets of LA.  Experience counts and these folks have a lot of it.  They been in the business since the 90's.  Since Beta/Team Brazil took over management, Axl's on stage, on time and Slash and Duff have rejoined.  Big things all those other managers failed at.  One of them a pretty big Assoff in the business.  Just because they don't participate in online communities doesn't mean they are lacking in ability to make this band a success.  Obviously with the tour records they hold, they don't need  that area to support what the band is accomplishing.

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4 hours ago, kiwiguns said:

Of course, it might be possible, that the current band management in place, his kept the bad influences at arms length,  that has resulted in the much happier and content Axl Rose we now see on stage. That Axl Rose appearing and that time line seems to fit in, with when the current band management team took over from past managers shown the door. 

It is a real shame that TB's amazing influence hasn't resulted in GNR doing what most bands do, release music more than every 15 years

You know it is bad when you can say that Tool has given their fans more worthwhile stuff the past 15 years than you lol but it is true.   GNR are essentially a Kiss-type band now with merch over new and worthwhile content.  And that is what I give TB credit for

Edited by WhazUp
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2 hours ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

1) Just because they have been associated with Axl since the '90's doesn't mean they were working in a business or management capacity since then. Team Brazil was instituted around 2011/2012, and Beta had some influential capacity prior to then.

2) Axl had issues before and after Team Brazil were instituted. It's not like they were immediate cures for Axl. In fact, Beta forced his hand by threatening to quit unless Axl stopped hiring third party managers. She says so herself.

3) Axl was the one who told Fernando he was going to contact Slash. It's not so hard to pick up a phone and hand it to Axl, is it? After all, that's what Fernando done prior to becoming manager - he was a personal assistant to Axl (another gig he just fell into by virtue of being the son of Beta). Guns N' Roses, since then, has been represented by three parties (Axl, Slash and Duff) with three different managers. They have at the very least overseen the touring, and will likely oversee a future album release too. While Team Brazil deserves some credit for negotiating a reunion, to give all credit to them is disingenuous. In fact, before the reunion, Guns N' Roses was playing entertainment centers at best and amphitheaters at worst. Axl was reportedly in some financial trouble as well. Does that really sound like fantastic management?

3) Team Brazil may be able to negotiate successful tours, but they are terrible marketers and promoters. A band needs both to survive. You say community engagement isn't important for what they are doing. I will say that is true for the reunion tour, but sooner or later, that steam will run out. They will require professional marketing and PR then. 

Excellent post.

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8 hours ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

1) Just because they have been associated with Axl since the '90's doesn't mean they were working in a business or management capacity since then. Team Brazil was instituted around 2011/2012, and Beta had some influential capacity prior to then.

2) Axl had issues before and after Team Brazil were instituted. It's not like they were immediate cures for Axl. In fact, Beta forced his hand by threatening to quit unless Axl stopped hiring third party managers. She says so herself.

3) Axl was the one who told Fernando he was going to contact Slash. It's not so hard to pick up a phone and hand it to Axl, is it? After all, that's what Fernando done prior to becoming manager - he was a personal assistant to Axl (another gig he just fell into by virtue of being the son of Beta). Guns N' Roses, since then, has been represented by three parties (Axl, Slash and Duff) with three different managers. They have at the very least overseen the touring, and will likely oversee a future album release too. While Team Brazil deserves some credit for negotiating a reunion, to give all credit to them is disingenuous. In fact, before the reunion, Guns N' Roses was playing entertainment centers at best and amphitheaters at worst. Axl was reportedly in some financial trouble as well. Does that really sound like fantastic management?

3) Team Brazil may be able to negotiate successful tours, but they are terrible marketers and promoters. A band needs both to survive. You say community engagement isn't important for what they are doing. I will say that is true for the reunion tour, but sooner or later, that steam will run out. They will require professional marketing and PR then. 

When they started there was a clear decline in gnr happening. Now, you can't blame that on them, at least not entirely! Axl had lost his voice in Rio... which was broadcast all around the world, then he lost it again at bridge school... broadcast all around the world. I mean, that's bad publicity! 

The upswing has been since 2016 and like you said, you can't downplay Slash and Duffs managements role in all of this. Tb are doing things, but judging by experience alone I'd say they are the face of the management team like a president is, and then there's the VP and other advisors... the ones that really run the show.

But... even with the best management if the artist refuses to do certain thi gs your hands are tied! Not suggesting tb are the best management😄

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13 hours ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

1) Just because they have been associated with Axl since the '90's doesn't mean they were working in a business or management capacity since then. Team Brazil was instituted around 2011/2012, and Beta had some influential capacity prior to then.

2) Axl had issues before and after Team Brazil were instituted. It's not like they were immediate cures for Axl. In fact, Beta forced his hand by threatening to quit unless Axl stopped hiring third party managers. She says so herself.

3) Axl was the one who told Fernando he was going to contact Slash. It's not so hard to pick up a phone and hand it to Axl, is it? After all, that's what Fernando done prior to becoming manager - he was a personal assistant to Axl (another gig he just fell into by virtue of being the son of Beta). Guns N' Roses, since then, has been represented by three parties (Axl, Slash and Duff) with three different managers. They have at the very least overseen the touring, and will likely oversee a future album release too. While Team Brazil deserves some credit for negotiating a reunion, to give all credit to them is disingenuous. In fact, before the reunion, Guns N' Roses was playing entertainment centers at best and amphitheaters at worst. Axl was reportedly in some financial trouble as well. Does that really sound like fantastic management?

3) Team Brazil may be able to negotiate successful tours, but they are terrible marketers and promoters. A band needs both to survive. You say community engagement isn't important for what they are doing. I will say that is true for the reunion tour, but sooner or later, that steam will run out. They will require professional marketing and PR then. 

What is actually on their resume I have no idea.  I believe they were on Merck's companies payroll with job duties.  But they've been there all this time and have come up through the ranks.  People who start at the bottom and move up know way more then the folks who walk in from the outside.

Thank god Beta finally stepped up.  I was screaming for that years before it happen.  People are hung up on where she started.  They don't see the years of experience she has had.  I would have to have been in that room when she told Axl that although it probably wasn't as big of deal as we see it.

Again I have no idea what's on Fernando's resume.  It's my opinion he's going to be the last man standing in the GNR business and if he's the one they want running this whole thing when the rest of the band has retired or dead, they better get him trained and working with it.  GNR will have to judge if he's what they want.  I also have no idea how skilled the managers are for Slash and Duff or their input into what GNR does.  GNR is a way bigger beast then what Slash and Duff have done in their individual careers.  Right now it's working.

What else has there been to promote outside of the tours?  In my opinion GNR merch has never been anything I wanted to buy.  Don't know if you like it.  It's way over priced but I have to pay those prices if I want other band's stuff like that.  Overall their PR sucks but everybody's does.  There's so many twists and spins on what anyone says these days.  It's best just to limit what you do put out there.

I don't see anyway for the GNR board communities to be part of supporting this band.  You read past the first news item and it's mostly negative.  People think they know how it all works.  They can't let go of things that happen years, decades ago.  They want to give an opinion.  They want to talk and they talk shit.  They want stuff and they want it now. Marketing and PR aren't going to change that.  I wouldn't acknowledge there are GNR boards out there.  We're not that much different then what happens on other bands board communities.  It's kind of what is happening all over.  It might help a just starting out band get going but I don't think it's impact is all that important with a band as big and as established as GNR.  

You know it's all my opinion.  I'm pretty happy with GNR and what they are doing.  There are things I wish were different.  I wish I didn't get sucked into conversations where I really can only base opinions on what I think I know, lol.  Or express my frustration things aren't happening as fast as I would like them to.  But it happens.

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9 minutes ago, sofine11 said:

The constant overuse of “f’n” in their social media is so embarrassing. What old Harley riding boomers are they marketing to with that??

That's exactly who they're marketing to. I've said this before, but they've mistaken their audience for the audience the Stones have had since the late 80s.

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1 hour ago, GNRfanJen said:

cool pic, lame caption 

Hmmm, this post seems to put that Slash dropping fire caption into perspective. Looks like it was a case of us fans clutching at straws yet again.

Edited by Towelie
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6 hours ago, Towelie said:

Hmmm, this post seems to put that Slash dropping fire caption into perspective. Looks like it was a case of us fans clutching at straws yet again.

Well, Duff and Slash released NovemberRain-ish song with Ozzy, EltonJohn and Chad Smith - maybe post was reffering to that :D

 

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1 hour ago, jamillos said:

I hope if they release something from the past, it will be called "Atlas F'n Shrugged" or "State of F'n Grace"! 

Besides, why do they keep using capitals? It's "f'n stage", isn't it? 

It should also have been Guns 'N' Roses, so any grammar related theories I wouldn't dig too much into when it comes to this band:lol:

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1 hour ago, ArthurMorgan said:

It should also have been Guns 'N' Roses, so any grammar related theories I wouldn't dig too much into when it comes to this band:lol:

Holy crap, you're right. And here I was thinking my whole life that the correct version is N'. 

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