What was the definitive moment for NuGNR?

[username]

2002 VMA.

It was the moment the world realized that a once amazing rock band turned into a poor sounding freak show. It was pure alienation.

That performance blew. They lost a lot there.

Granted - band, image and music have gotten a LOT better since. Immense improvement on all fronts.

But as far a a general public opinion is concerned, none of that matters.

But VMA 2002 is where the mainstream audience realized that the old GnR they knew and loved was dead.

The second-biggest exposure moment since, Rock In Rio 4 in 2011, they bombed again. Terrible show, much negative press and much controversy.

I'd really love to see them rise to the occasion and redeem themselves at such a high-profile event. If it's not too late for that.

Well it should be about the music... Not the image, right?

Image has always played a large roll with GnR.

Some of it made sense,some of it was just...chicken buckets.

Ahh, so you weren't a fan of the bucket? I'm indifferent.

I didn't care about the bucket tbh.

My thinking on it was..if that's what it takes to get Axl Rose back on stage,fine..I'll live with it.

This.

A big part of my love for the original GnR is that they're a bunch of relate-able, real, in your face, what you see is what you get, fucked up, badass trainwrecks.

Bucket (and in 2001/2002 Robin) kind of ruined that for me. You can deny it all you want, but it is and always will be about image.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

it's pretty interesting and telling to me that chinese democracy itself wasn't what defined NuGNR, even amongst the most dedicated and impassioned hardcore fans. after all that work, that time, that money, that hype and all those talented band members...

but the defining moment seems to be the VMA's. if that doesn't illustrate the fact that axl's considered a failure, then i don't know what would. even among those people who were fans and really wanted to like NuGNR and chinese democracy, the band is defined by the image of an overweight, cornrowed axl huffing and puffing his way through an embarrassing performance, flanked by musicians who made everyone laugh and scratch their heads at the point of it all. THAT, even among fans, is what defines NuGNR.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Well it should be about the music... Not the image, right?

People don't look at it that way too much anymore, it seems. Kind of sad.

Rock n Roll is about image and to miss that is to miss the point. I hate when people say that, like projecting an image is a bad thing. Image is the hook, image is what pulls you in, if it was just about music they'd come out in their Pyjamas.

Fuckin' Bowie, Alice Cooper, The Pistols, The Who, The Stones, The Beatles, i can't think of a single band in which image isn't/wasn't HUGELY important.

If it had been all about music then it would've died before it got out of the blocks, fact. People like rock n roll stars because they're cool and they think they're cool because of the image they project. Should it take prescedence over music? Well the two are indivisible, they come hand in hand.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

guys please, couldn't the music and the image both be bad? when it comes to NuGNR, i don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

[James Bond]

The sad thing about a bunch of the new Guns "misfires" or whatever you want to call them is that it generally wasn't the band's fault, but Axl's. Last year's Rock in Rio and of course the VMAs. Two chances to show the world he's still got it but unfortunately it did quite the opposite. 2002 should have been the proper comeback. When that didn't work, 2006 seemed like the next best thing. Axl came back looking a little more like Axl (still my favorite look of his minus the braids), great buzz surrounding the tour, promise of new music that year, Axl sounded great again, and then nothing. It really is too bad that they never made that March 2007 release date.

[Zint]

Well it should be about the music... Not the image, right?

People don't look at it that way too much anymore, it seems. Kind of sad.

Rock n Roll is about image and to miss that is to miss the point. I hate when people say that, like projecting an image is a bad thing. Image is the hook, image is what pulls you in, if it was just about music they'd come out in their Pyjamas.

Fuckin' Bowie, Alice Cooper, The Pistols, The Who, The Stones, The Beatles, i can't think of a single band in which image isn't/wasn't HUGELY important.

If it had been all about music then it would've died before it got out of the blocks, fact. People like rock n roll stars because they're cool and they think they're cool because of the image they project. Should it take prescedence over music? Well the two are indivisible, they come hand in hand.

Image spilled over to the artwork as well.

Album cover design was serious business,almost as much effort went in to cover/sleeve design as the recordings themselves.

I remember seeing the Chi-Dem cover for the first time and thinking what a vast error of judgement it was presenting the imagery of the return of "GUNS N FUCKING ROSES" as a bicycle with a basket.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

totally agree on the bike album cover. sometimes i think axl was punking us. at time it's unfathomable that he actually thought this was all going to work.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

it's also telling that not one single fan has suggested that NuGNR's defining moment is yet to come. guess after all that axl's done with the GNR name so far, nobody's holding out much hope for the future.

[maynard]

i seriously think the only great moment of GNR since 2000 is the 2006-2007 era. we still had brain and robin, axl was amazing and ron acted almost like a backing musician.

i can't believe axl keeps touring with his current voice and with guys like dj ashba and frank ferrer.

[Zint]

The defining moment for me was seeing them live in 2002.

I was fairly close to the stage, and I remember looking at Axl and he was just fucking glaring at people, the audience,sidestage..everywhere.

I remember thinking "he's still pissed off..cool".

It's been interesting watching where that goes.

[bumblecool]

i doubt here, in europe, someone cared about vma...

America isn't the center of the world.

[username]

i doubt here, in europe, someone cared about vma...

America isn't the center of the world.

Probably a lot more people ove here cared about the VMA's than about Chinese Democracy.

MTV repeated it a million times here in Holland.

[sergiodefenders]

I think it's the most pathetic Axl' permornace in history, RIR 2001: that's define New Guns era.

[KBear]

For all the talk of the VMA's, I don't really hear people outside the forum talk about it much anymore. Certainly not non-fans that I discuss GN'R with. Though if Patton Oswalt used it in his comedy show, I guess it's still out there. It probably defines Axl's band perfectly. So much potential that was not realized.

I think the release of Chi Dem also qualifies. It got to the point where a lot of us thought it would never happen and then it landed and it was a pretty big deal. It got mainstream coverage too (though not mainstream acceptance). I'd have to put my vote here, as it's what everyone was looking towards for so long.

How about 2001 at the HOB? Kind of a defining moment. Axl's first show in 7 years, the revealing of the new band and some new music. It kind of set the bar. And it's also a bit of a mysterious show. No video and only okay audio (still the case, right?). Some people think it was proshot. Foreshadowing the next 5 years, where fans would be left in the dark more times than not.

Edited August 6, 2012 by KBear

[Babooshka]

There have been incidents, but there hasn't really been a defining moment, good or bad. NuGNR have been very lackluster.

[KiraMPD]

i doubt here, in europe, someone cared about vma...

In 2002 I cared...

[HisRoyalSweetness]

what do you think axl considers to be the moment that defined NuGNR? or do you think axl's the only person delusional enough to think he's yet to truly define the NuGNR era?

[username]

For all the talk of the VMA's, I don't really hear people outside the forum talk about it much anymore. Certainly not non-fans that I discuss GN'R with.

In fairness, I barely ever hear anybody outside this forum talk about GnR at all.

[Damn_Smooth]

For me it was the UCAP tour. That was the tour that made me realise that Guns will, more likely than not, never be anything more than a touring act again. I'm fine with that though, I'll still pay to see them if they come close enough,

[KBear]

For all the talk of the VMA's, I don't really hear people outside the forum talk about it much anymore. Certainly not non-fans that I discuss GN'R with.

In fairness, I barely ever hear anybody outside this forum talk about GnR at all.

The subject usually comes up because I bring it up, or people who know I like GN'R bring it up. If others bring it up it's usually due to Axl being in the news for some reason.

I think Axl is known for being an a-hole way more than he is for a few poor performances.

[Tyler Drama]

For all the talk of the VMA's, I don't really hear people outside the forum talk about it much anymore. Certainly not non-fans that I discuss GN'R with. Though if Patton Oswalt used it in his comedy show, I guess it's still out there. It probably defines Axl's band perfectly. So much potential that was not realized.

I think the release of Chi Dem also qualifies. It got to the point where a lot of us thought it would never happen and then it landed and it was a pretty big deal. It got mainstream coverage too (though not mainstream acceptance). I'd have to put my vote here, as it's what everyone was looking towards for so long.

How about 2001 at the HOB? Kind of a defining moment. Axl's first show in 7 years, the revealing of the new band and some new music. It kind of set the bar. And it's also a bit of a mysterious show. No video and only okay audio (still the case, right?). Some people think it was proshot. Foreshadowing the next 5 years, where fans would be left in the dark more times than not.

The show was pro-shot, but very few people have it.

[KeyserSoze]

Going back to what you guys were talking about a page or two ago about image. Havee any of you honestly seen the RIR 01 performance? or just the WTTJ video that was posted earlier? I know the first time i showed anyone video from that concert it was the part in Its So Easy when axl throws that guy out for having that slash t shirt. I think i showed my mom or dad because they were fans back in the day but werent die hards. I remeber them talking about "that guy with the chicken bucket on his head in the yellow coat" the "guitarist with the front part of his head shaved that looks pale" the "oddly dressed bass player" the "keyboard player that looks like someone out of al pacinos Cruising" honestly i thought it was a freakshow at first. but i came to except the playing ability after getting to arounf the time when they play OMG.

[Gagarin]

VMAs were terrible to be a fan and living in a college dorm. "Uh, did you see Guns N' Roses last night?"

UGH, yes, and NO, it's usually not that terrible.

In 2002, people were still going to be watching MTV, enough young people where they would have all seen that event as it aired. "Wow, what was that..?"

No one said "THAT WAS AWESOME" except people on GNRX and NewGNR and HTGTH or whatever other forums.

Defining moment: "Round one!"

Good intentions, lost the plot.

Also, Axl chats. That was awesome.

[auad]

ok, nevermind!

[spunko12345]

For me it was the open letter in 99 where he ended it "power to the people, peace out and blame Canada"

-"Axl"-

That was when I was excited about his vision and the people who he was working with. Now I'm just a bitter ex fan who would love to become a fan again and be blown away by new music but can't seem to get excited anymore.