Did Axl ever really like Slash?

[Free Bird]

As long as you hadn't spoke to Duff or Slash back than, you cannot judge them. I know some alcoholics and drug addicts and you dont even realize that they are blown away.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Free Bird

[classicrawker]

Total bullshit mate...neither Slash nor Duff ever missed a show due to their addictions which Axl cannot claim...Axl was weeks late to the UYI writing mission to Chicago...........he would not show up to the recording sessions and the band would have to send tapes to his house for him to listen to.. Axl was continuously late for shows...........If anything Slash and Duff were more reliable then Axl.

Axl did not have to cut the rest of the band out of ownership of the name. If he was worried about having to deal with spouses or family if any of them died the contract could have been written so that the share of the deceased member was split amoungst the living members..

The addiction excuse is just a smokescreen to try to justify Axl's meglomania and cutting his mates out of the picture.............

This is typical Duff/Slash retort: Axl was late to shows, Axl was late in Chicago, etc. Axl is late, yeah we got it. You're bringing up stuff from UYI and before, while I was talking about the state of Slash, Duff, Axl and the band once the UYI tour ended and they began trying to move forward.

Like I said, if you've ever had to try and communicate with full-blown alcoholic drug addicts then you'd understand. It's nauseating, frustrating and completely useless because you're talking to a shell of the person, in a f'd up state of mind, who will only remember pieces of the conversation. Axl had been doing this for nearly three years, so what I'm saying is I don't blame Axl for securing the band name and decision-making later on tour and then afterwards during their recording attempts (when Axl saw the addictions hadn't gotten better, in regards to Slash they got worse). I'd do the same thing.

Slash and Duff were wasted all-day, every day, all day long, all night long, week in, week out, year after year. I understand it takes some thinking out of the box because you've read Duff and Slashs' books, and that Axl-Megalomaniac view point sticks in everyone's heads. But read the pages where they explain their daily intake of 1.5 gallons of vodka (along with god only knows how much coke) while simultaneaously wondering why their communication with Axl became strained.

And yet both Duff and Slash were able to record solo albums. And Slash toured with Snakepit.....pretty good for addicts you claim were unreliable Iwould say...and according to interviews with the band members, not named Slash and Duff, Axl was the one not showing up to rehearsals during that period .

Spin it anyway you want mate, Axl was out for Axl......

[Vincent Vega]

As long as you hadn't spoke to Duff or Slash back than, you cannot judge them. I know some alcoholics and drug addicts and you dont even realize that they are blown away.

You mean like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8AL2CRBqU

[RocketQueenGNR]

This seems like a good thread to ask. Marc, Could you please explain why Axl hates Slash. I honestly do not understand or perhaps it

was never said before, why he holds so much hatred towards him. Is it because Slash left the band? Perhaps because of the law suits?

Did Slash say something publicly to piss him off? I'm a die hard fan but this is one thing that I never understood. Any help on this would be great.

All of the above, Left the band Law suites and Saying things publicly

I think Axl really liked Slash. But in one or another way, it went wrong between the 2 of them, we all know that.

And there are only 2 people who know for sure what happened, and that are Axl and Slash.

I don't even think Axl and Slash know what happened, They both have very different versions of what went wrong. That is why if they really want the answers, they need a good middle man someone that does it for a living that can help both of them know what really went wrong.

Do you think that will ever happen?

[Vincent Vega]

Total bullshit mate...neither Slash nor Duff ever missed a show due to their addictions which Axl cannot claim...Axl was weeks late to the UYI writing mission to Chicago...........he would not show up to the recording sessions and the band would have to send tapes to his house for him to listen to.. Axl was continuously late for shows...........If anything Slash and Duff were more reliable then Axl.

Axl did not have to cut the rest of the band out of ownership of the name. If he was worried about having to deal with spouses or family if any of them died the contract could have been written so that the share of the deceased member was split amoungst the living members..

The addiction excuse is just a smokescreen to try to justify Axl's meglomania and cutting his mates out of the picture.............

This is typical Duff/Slash retort: Axl was late to shows, Axl was late in Chicago, etc. Axl is late, yeah we got it. You're bringing up stuff from UYI and before, while I was talking about the state of Slash, Duff, Axl and the band once the UYI tour ended and they began trying to move forward.

Like I said, if you've ever had to try and communicate with full-blown alcoholic drug addicts then you'd understand. It's nauseating, frustrating and completely useless because you're talking to a shell of the person, in a f'd up state of mind, who will only remember pieces of the conversation. Axl had been doing this for nearly three years, so what I'm saying is I don't blame Axl for securing the band name and decision-making later on tour and then afterwards during their recording attempts (when Axl saw the addictions hadn't gotten better, in regards to Slash they got worse). I'd do the same thing.

Slash and Duff were wasted all-day, every day, all day long, all night long, week in, week out, year after year. I understand it takes some thinking out of the box because you've read Duff and Slashs' books, and that Axl-Megalomaniac view point sticks in everyone's heads. But read the pages where they explain their daily intake of 1.5 gallons of vodka (along with god only knows how much coke) while simultaneaously wondering why their communication with Axl became strained.

And yet both Duff and Slash were able to record solo albums. And Slash toured with Snakepit.....pretty good for addicts you claim were unreliable Iwould say...and according to interviews with the band members, not named Slash and Duff, Axl was the one not showing up to rehearsals during that period .

Spin it anyway you want mate, Axl was out for Axl......

Keith Richards still recorded albums and toured at the height of his addiction and even he felt it needed to stop...Same with Jimmy Page, strung out on Heroin from '76 onward and managed to record and tour.

Hell Elvis was basically out of his mind on pills toward the end and still recorded and toured.

Doesn't mean any of these guys were fuckin' coherent and in their right minds behind the scenes.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Vincent Vega

[classicrawker]

I don't even think Axl and Slash know what happened, They both have very different versions of what went wrong. That is why if they really want the answers, they need a good middle man someone that does it for a living that can help both of them know what really went wrong.

But weren't middle men the problem in the first place? I get the impression that there was some sort of communication breakdown between them and part of the reason for that was that they talked to each other through middle men. If they ever are willing to sort it out, wouldn't it be better if they talked it out one-on-one? Face to face?

THANK YOU! This is my point. You cannot communicate with full-blown alcoholic coke addicts. It's impossible. Duff and Slash can't even remember being in certain countries, or having played a show, and we expect them to be able to have coherent conversations with Axl? Communicaton break-down was a problem, but it wasn't just Dougie speaking for Axl, which is all that is ever focused on by Slash and Duff. It's their raging addictions and wasted-around-the-clock state of minds, also, which pulled their relationships with Axl apart, forcing him to restrcuture the band after watching his bandmates (and their decision-making) totally degenerate right in front of him for years

And yet they were able to communicate with each other and with Gilby and Matt.......I wonder who the problem was?....hmmmmmmm

Total bullshit mate...neither Slash nor Duff ever missed a show due to their addictions which Axl cannot claim...Axl was weeks late to the UYI writing mission to Chicago...........he would not show up to the recording sessions and the band would have to send tapes to his house for him to listen to.. Axl was continuously late for shows...........If anything Slash and Duff were more reliable then Axl.

Axl did not have to cut the rest of the band out of ownership of the name. If he was worried about having to deal with spouses or family if any of them died the contract could have been written so that the share of the deceased member was split amoungst the living members..

The addiction excuse is just a smokescreen to try to justify Axl's meglomania and cutting his mates out of the picture.............

This is typical Duff/Slash retort: Axl was late to shows, Axl was late in Chicago, etc. Axl is late, yeah we got it. You're bringing up stuff from UYI and before, while I was talking about the state of Slash, Duff, Axl and the band once the UYI tour ended and they began trying to move forward.

Like I said, if you've ever had to try and communicate with full-blown alcoholic drug addicts then you'd understand. It's nauseating, frustrating and completely useless because you're talking to a shell of the person, in a f'd up state of mind, who will only remember pieces of the conversation. Axl had been doing this for nearly three years, so what I'm saying is I don't blame Axl for securing the band name and decision-making later on tour and then afterwards during their recording attempts (when Axl saw the addictions hadn't gotten better, in regards to Slash they got worse). I'd do the same thing.

Slash and Duff were wasted all-day, every day, all day long, all night long, week in, week out, year after year. I understand it takes some thinking out of the box because you've read Duff and Slashs' books, and that Axl-Megalomaniac view point sticks in everyone's heads. But read the pages where they explain their daily intake of 1.5 gallons of vodka (along with god only knows how much coke) while simultaneaously wondering why their communication with Axl became strained.

And yet both Duff and Slash were able to record solo albums. And Slash toured with Snakepit.....pretty good for addicts you claim were unreliable Iwould say...and according to interviews with the band members, not named Slash and Duff, Axl was the one not showing up to rehearsals during that period .

Spin it anyway you want mate, Axl was out for Axl......

Keith Richards still recorded albums and toured at the height of his addiction and even he felt it needed to stop...Same with Jimmy Page, strung out on Heroin from '76 onward and managed to record and tour.

Hell Elvis was basically out of his mind on pills toward the end and still recorded and toured.

Doesn't mean any of these guys were fuckin' coherent and in their right minds behind the scenes.

So in other words it did not effect their ability to function and they still took care of business which pretty much negates the argument that Slash and Duff addictions were liabilities....

[Vincent Vega]

I don't even think Axl and Slash know what happened, They both have very different versions of what went wrong. That is why if they really want the answers, they need a good middle man someone that does it for a living that can help both of them know what really went wrong.

But weren't middle men the problem in the first place? I get the impression that there was some sort of communication breakdown between them and part of the reason for that was that they talked to each other through middle men. If they ever are willing to sort it out, wouldn't it be better if they talked it out one-on-one? Face to face?

THANK YOU! This is my point. You cannot communicate with full-blown alcoholic coke addicts. It's impossible. Duff and Slash can't even remember being in certain countries, or having played a show, and we expect them to be able to have coherent conversations with Axl? Communicaton break-down was a problem, but it wasn't just Dougie speaking for Axl, which is all that is ever focused on by Slash and Duff. It's their raging addictions and wasted-around-the-clock state of minds, also, which pulled their relationships with Axl apart, forcing him to restrcuture the band after watching his bandmates (and their decision-making) totally degenerate right in front of him for years

And yet they were able to communicate with each other and with Gilby and Matt.......I wonder who the problem was?....hmmmmmmm

Matt's said he did coke a lot back in the early '90s. Gilby probably didn't give a shit or have a say either way.

When Izzy rejoined the band in '93, he thought Slash and Duff seemed like "zombies".

[Vincent Vega]

"We'd started out as a garage band and it became like a huge band, which was fine. But everything was so magnified... Drug addictions, personalities... It just became... too much. Plus, my friends, these guys... I'm basically watching them kill themselves. Not so much Axl, but Slash and Duff, man - these guys were on my top ten list of guys that might die this week. And I'm thinking, you know what, I just don't want to be part of it. It didn't feel like it was good."

Nevertheless, Izzy did return briefly to the Gunners, in 1993, after Gilby Clarke, his short-lived replacement, busted his hand in a dirt bike accident. For the fans, it was a welcome return for one of the original members. For Izzy, "it was weird. We toured Greece, Istanbul, London - I liked that side of it, seeing some places I'd never seen."

But that was the only thing he did like about it. After he'd left the band, he had "a big shitload of money sitting somewhere for me and they weren't paying me it. I don't know the deal was, some kind of legal bullshit." Funds, he claims, which were only released after he agreed to come back temporarily. "Money was a big sore point. I did the dates just for salary. I mean, I helped start this band..." Up comes the guitar again. A flurry of angry notes ensue.

These were his final shows with Guns N' Roses. He left without saying goodbye. "I didn't actually say `see you' cos they were all F**Ked up. They didn't even recognise me. It was really bizarre. It was like playing with zombies. Ah, man, it was just horrible. Nobody was laughing anymore..."

From Izzy.

[classicrawker]

I don't even think Axl and Slash know what happened, They both have very different versions of what went wrong. That is why if they really want the answers, they need a good middle man someone that does it for a living that can help both of them know what really went wrong.

But weren't middle men the problem in the first place? I get the impression that there was some sort of communication breakdown between them and part of the reason for that was that they talked to each other through middle men. If they ever are willing to sort it out, wouldn't it be better if they talked it out one-on-one? Face to face?

THANK YOU! This is my point. You cannot communicate with full-blown alcoholic coke addicts. It's impossible. Duff and Slash can't even remember being in certain countries, or having played a show, and we expect them to be able to have coherent conversations with Axl? Communicaton break-down was a problem, but it wasn't just Dougie speaking for Axl, which is all that is ever focused on by Slash and Duff. It's their raging addictions and wasted-around-the-clock state of minds, also, which pulled their relationships with Axl apart, forcing him to restrcuture the band after watching his bandmates (and their decision-making) totally degenerate right in front of him for years

And yet they were able to communicate with each other and with Gilby and Matt.......I wonder who the problem was?....hmmmmmmm

Matt's said he did coke a lot back in the early '90s. Gilby probably didn't give a shit or have a say either way.

When Izzy rejoined the band in '93, he thought Slash and Duff seemed like "zombies".

You still miss the point Duff, Gilby, Matt and Slash were still communicating and working together...Axl was the one not communicating....

We are talking about the post 93 years mate and during the UYI years Duff and Izzy both never missed show due to their habits and by 93 Axl already owned the name.....

[Vincent Vega]

I don't even think Axl and Slash know what happened, They both have very different versions of what went wrong. That is why if they really want the answers, they need a good middle man someone that does it for a living that can help both of them know what really went wrong.

But weren't middle men the problem in the first place? I get the impression that there was some sort of communication breakdown between them and part of the reason for that was that they talked to each other through middle men. If they ever are willing to sort it out, wouldn't it be better if they talked it out one-on-one? Face to face?

THANK YOU! This is my point. You cannot communicate with full-blown alcoholic coke addicts. It's impossible. Duff and Slash can't even remember being in certain countries, or having played a show, and we expect them to be able to have coherent conversations with Axl? Communicaton break-down was a problem, but it wasn't just Dougie speaking for Axl, which is all that is ever focused on by Slash and Duff. It's their raging addictions and wasted-around-the-clock state of minds, also, which pulled their relationships with Axl apart, forcing him to restrcuture the band after watching his bandmates (and their decision-making) totally degenerate right in front of him for years

And yet they were able to communicate with each other and with Gilby and Matt.......I wonder who the problem was?....hmmmmmmm

Matt's said he did coke a lot back in the early '90s. Gilby probably didn't give a shit or have a say either way.

When Izzy rejoined the band in '93, he thought Slash and Duff seemed like "zombies".

You still miss the point Duff, Gilby, Matt and Slash were still communicating and working together...Axl was the one not communicating....

We are talking about the post 93 years mate and during the UYI years Duff and Izzy both never missed show due to their habits and by 93 Axl already owned the name.....

Wrong again.

If you believe Duff's book, the contract which was given to him and Slash was given to them on July 5th 1993. The UYI tour ended on July 17th--12 days later. Not much of a tour left that Axl controlled. Not only that, but the contract stated that Axl would only own the name if he was fired from GN'R or if he removed himself from the then current GN'R legal partnership or quit the band. That didn't happen until 1995. All the contract in 1993 did was lay out the circumstances under which Axl could come to own the name.It was a clause which basically protected him from getting fired from the band or allow him to form a new legal partnership under which the band would operate. He didn't use that clause or put it into effect and thus didn't own the name until 12/31/1995.

The point is is that junkies get along and those who tolerate junkies (or those who are hirelings in a band) get along with or tolerate junkies. Others don't, and I guess Axl was one of those who found it hard to work with junkies, hence not showing up to rehearsals. The other guys didn't care at the time:

They say that in the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king, but for Izzy, returning to the road with Guns N' Roses, in 1991, was "a nightmare." Axl's 'mood swings' had become so regular, "I said to Duff and Slash, we gotta learn a cover song or something, for when Axl leaves the stage. They were like, 'Ah, let's have another beer...' They didn't care."

As for going on late, haven't people like Alan Niven (no fan of Axl's) said the guy basically suffers from and has always suffered from a form of stage fright, anyway? I mean if we're going to minimize the guys in the bands' flaws............

Edited August 26, 2012 by Vincent Vega

[Babooshka]

How many times does it need to be said!? Take this shit to attitude! Do not ruin this sub-forum with your incessant Axl vs Slash crap.

[mECHsLAVE]

To the guys trying to make the points about the solo albums they did, etc: Duff and Slash's solo efforts at that time were nothing close to GNR level writing/recording (parts of Slash's music, without lyrics/melodies, could've been worked into GNR songs...Life's Sweet Drug, Been there Lately, Speed Parade, etc....but the communication wasn't there). Yes, Slash and Duff had become functional musicians with raging addictions, but Axl's trust in their decision making was rightly soured, and basically communication between sober people and full blown addicts is always a struggle that spirals downwards. Everyone heaps it all on Axl (and he deserves some of it, no doubt) but my point was more about Slash and Duff accepting the role their addictions played in Axl's decisions at that time (new contracts, no communication, etc).

Edited August 26, 2012 by mECHsLAVE

[KiraMPD]

I don't even think Axl and Slash know what happened, They both have very different versions of what went wrong. That is why if they really want the answers, they need a good middle man someone that does it for a living that can help both of them know what really went wrong.

But weren't middle men the problem in the first place? I get the impression that there was some sort of communication breakdown between them and part of the reason for that was that they talked to each other through middle men. If they ever are willing to sort it out, wouldn't it be better if they talked it out one-on-one? Face to face?

THANK YOU! This is my point. You cannot communicate with full-blown alcoholic coke addicts. It's impossible. Duff and Slash can't even remember being in certain countries, or having played a show, and we expect them to be able to have coherent conversations with Axl? Communicaton break-down was a problem, but it wasn't just Dougie speaking for Axl, which is all that is ever focused on by Slash and Duff. It's their raging addictions and wasted-around-the-clock state of minds, also, which pulled their relationships with Axl apart, forcing him to restrcuture the band after watching his bandmates (and their decision-making) totally degenerate right in front of him for years.

Actually... that wasn't my point at all...

And also, as people have stated before, can you guys end this here or take it to Attitude please?

Edited August 26, 2012 by KiraMPD

[classicrawker]

I don't even think Axl and Slash know what happened, They both have very different versions of what went wrong. That is why if they really want the answers, they need a good middle man someone that does it for a living that can help both of them know what really went wrong.

But weren't middle men the problem in the first place? I get the impression that there was some sort of communication breakdown between them and part of the reason for that was that they talked to each other through middle men. If they ever are willing to sort it out, wouldn't it be better if they talked it out one-on-one? Face to face?

THANK YOU! This is my point. You cannot communicate with full-blown alcoholic coke addicts. It's impossible. Duff and Slash can't even remember being in certain countries, or having played a show, and we expect them to be able to have coherent conversations with Axl? Communicaton break-down was a problem, but it wasn't just Dougie speaking for Axl, which is all that is ever focused on by Slash and Duff. It's their raging addictions and wasted-around-the-clock state of minds, also, which pulled their relationships with Axl apart, forcing him to restrcuture the band after watching his bandmates (and their decision-making) totally degenerate right in front of him for years.

Actually... that wasn't my point at all...

And also, as people have stated before, can you guys end this here or take it to Attitude please?

Agreed this is not the place to beat this dead horse

[recklessroad]

Guys I'm not one to look threads or delete stuff so cool it with the AXL VS Slash thing. There is no good guy and there is no bad guy between them. I don't believe in removing things unless it's just way out of line.

[PITBOSS]

back on topic, marc wouldn't you agree that if he didn't like the guy he wouldn't be so upset with him?

[recklessroad]

back on topic, marc wouldn't you agree that if he didn't like the guy he wouldn't be so upset with him?

100% agree. My dad always said you can't be upset with someone that you don't care about or love or expect better from but if someone fucks you over that you trusted, then you have a reason to be up set about it.

[MaryLouise]

back on topic, marc wouldn't you agree that if he didn't like the guy he wouldn't be so upset with him?

100% agree. My dad always said you can't be upset with someone that you don't care about or love or expect better from but if someone fucks you over that you trusted, then you have a reason to be up set about it.

As the person who made the OP, I never meant for it to be an Axl vs Slash thread. I guess the point I was trying to make was much more basic. Axl and Izzy were friends from boyhood, just like Slash and Marc were and Slash and Steven were. I know little of what goes on in Axl's head, but it seems to me like he wouldn't be the kind of guy who enjoyed being around someone, ANYONE, who nodded out with chili in his mouth or peed himself, or was drunk/drugged out, even when he was in his mid 20s. I'm looking at the photo in Reckless Road on page 298 showing Slash and Steven and it seems to me like Axl wouldn't want any part of those 2 goofy assholes or their escapades EXCEPT that the one asshole happened to be an amazing guitar player. And if you look at the picture on page 219, look at Izzy and look at Slash and then look at Axl. It's like Axl is thinking "Well, fuck my life with this bunch".

That's why I asked Marc if Axl ever liked Slash, because Marc was freaking there in the beginning taking these photos and being around these 5 guys at a time when their obligations to each other were minimal. Of course, by the time the mid 90s rolled around I'm sure Axl had developed strong feelings for Slash both positive and negative and the fallout of the breakup to this day is a result of that. The 90s are a whole other story.

I just wanted to know if Axl and Slash would have pledged the same fraternity if they had been in college together.. if you get my drift.

[recklessroad]

April May June and July of 1986 Axl was in the same boat has Slash and Izzy as far as the bad things that they were doing. The difference is Axl stopped around Aug when he saw it was bad. I have to say GNR was more like a business that they had together where the music they made together was what they had in common. There was always tension between them from the start as far as friendship goes.

[Freddie Mercury's Ghost]

Marc - besides Axl threatening to quit the band onstage in 1989 because of the other guys using drugs, was there any other point where Axl was considering walking away from GNR?

[recklessroad]

Marc - besides Axl threatening to quit the band onstage in 1989 because of the other guys using drugs, was there any other point where Axl was considering walking away from GNR?

Lots of times and there were lots of times where the band almost fired him

[GNRfan2008]

Marc - besides Axl threatening to quit the band onstage in 1989 because of the other guys using drugs, was there any other point where Axl was considering walking away from GNR?

Lots of times and there were lots of times where the band almost fired him

Speaking of that topic, who the hell could they possibly have hired to replace him? Truly a unique voice and stage presence. I've heard one tribute singer (formerly in UK Guns N' Roses) who managed to pull off the voice, but didn't have the stage presence.

[recklessroad]

There is no one who can replace Axl

[GNRfan2008]

There is no one who can replace Axl

And that's why they never fired him, right? I'm sure he did plenty of shit to deserve getting canned. But like you said, at the end of the day he's one of a kind.

[recklessroad]

There is no one who can replace Axl

And that's why they never fired him, right? I'm sure he did plenty of shit to deserve getting canned. But like you said, at the end of the day he's one of a kind.

The truth is they were all very important to how the music sounded