1986 Club Dates

[Creepshow2]

Hi Marc, of all the 1986 club dates since January 18 at the Roxy which is the first one you videotaped, could you please let me know from this list which other ones you taped so if someday you get the go-ahead to release any of it, we know what is in existence?

February 28 at the Troubadour (different sources said this was floating around but I have never seen it)

April 5 at the Whisky

April 26 at Gazzarri's (Rock and Roll performance is floating around but did you tape Shark Island's show too?)

May 13 at Raji's

May 31 at Gazzarri's

July 21 at Bogart's (another show rumored to have leaked)

July 24 at Club Lingere

July 31 at Timbers Ballroom

August 15 at the Scream (I remember you saying you weren't at this so I doubt video exists)

August 23 at the Whisky

August 30 at the Santa Monica Civic Center

September 20 at the Street Scene Festival

October 23 at the Arlington Theater

October 31 at Ackerman Hall (this I'm almost sure exists in your archive but just double-checking)

December 21 at Fender's Ballroom

December 23 at the Cathouse (you said this is one you missed so I'm guessing no one else taped it)

I just left out the dates of shows that are obviously in existence and widely circulating. It would be great if all of these were safely stored away somewhere but I know some may not be. To save you time from typing a lot out, could you just list the ones you do have or do not have, whichever list is shorter, or even just copy this one and put yes or no near each. This is the holy grail in GN'R collecting and any of this that does exist is pure gold. Please let us know.

Thank you again Marc.

[Creepshow2]

Just making sure this post doesn't get lost or end up at the bottom, never being seen. It looked like it was on its way.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Creepshow2

[T.wa.T]

Hey Marc, in Alan Nivens last interveiw he mentioned that he wanted Geffen to front about $5000 dollars so they could record GnRs last club show. Can you tell me when and where this was? Also did you tape it and if so, do you have the set list? Were there any memorable moments from this show? Thanks.

[recklessroad]

Hi Marc, of all the 1986 club dates since January 18 at the Roxy which is the first one you videotaped, could you please let me know from this list which other ones you taped so if someday you get the go-ahead to release any of it, we know what is in existence?

February 28 at the Troubadour (different sources said this was floating around but I have never seen it)

April 5 at the Whisky

April 26 at Gazzarri's (Rock and Roll performance is floating around but did you tape Shark Island's show too?)

May 13 at Raji's

May 31 at Gazzarri's

July 21 at Bogart's (another show rumored to have leaked)

July 24 at Club Lingere

July 31 at Timbers Ballroom

August 15 at the Scream (I remember you saying you weren't at this so I doubt video exists)

August 23 at the Whisky

August 30 at the Santa Monica Civic Center

September 20 at the Street Scene Festival

October 23 at the Arlington Theater

October 31 at Ackerman Hall (this I'm almost sure exists in your archive but just double-checking)

December 21 at Fender's Ballroom

December 23 at the Cathouse (you said this is one you missed so I'm guessing no one else taped it)

I just left out the dates of shows that are obviously in existence and widely circulating. It would be great if all of these were safely stored away somewhere but I know some may not be. To save you time from typing a lot out, could you just list the ones you do have or do not have, whichever list is shorter, or even just copy this one and put yes or no near each. This is the holy grail in GN'R collecting and any of this that does exist is pure gold. Please let us know.

Thank you again Marc.

I also shot video at these gigs below that were on your list

April 5 at the Whisky

April 26 at Gazzarri's (Rock and Roll performance is floating around but did you tape Shark Island's show too?)

May 31 at Gazzarri's

July 21 at Bogart's (another show rumored to have leaked)

July 24 at Club Lingere

July 31 at Timbers Ballroom

August 23 at the Whisky

September 20 at the Street Scene Festival

October 23 at the Arlington Theater

October 31 at Ackerman Hall (this I'm almost sure exists in your archive but just double-checking)

December 21 at Fender's Ballroom

Hey Marc, in Alan Nivens last interveiw he mentioned that he wanted Geffen to front about $5000 dollars so they could record GnRs last club show. Can you tell me when and where this was? Also did you tape it and if so, do you have the set list? Were there any memorable moments from this show? Thanks.

The last gig was at the Roxy 3/29/86 I did shoot video but the master got destroyed so all I have is an EP version which doesn't look that good. Axl might have a better copy because I always made him copies after the gigs. The set list has been posted somewhere in the Canterbanner. The gig sounded just like the record because they just got done recording it.

[T.wa.T]

Hi Marc, of all the 1986 club dates since January 18 at the Roxy which is the first one you videotaped, could you please let me know from this list which other ones you taped so if someday you get the go-ahead to release any of it, we know what is in existence?

February 28 at the Troubadour (different sources said this was floating around but I have never seen it)

April 5 at the Whisky

April 26 at Gazzarri's (Rock and Roll performance is floating around but did you tape Shark Island's show too?)

May 13 at Raji's

May 31 at Gazzarri's

July 21 at Bogart's (another show rumored to have leaked)

July 24 at Club Lingere

July 31 at Timbers Ballroom

August 15 at the Scream (I remember you saying you weren't at this so I doubt video exists)

August 23 at the Whisky

August 30 at the Santa Monica Civic Center

September 20 at the Street Scene Festival

October 23 at the Arlington Theater

October 31 at Ackerman Hall (this I'm almost sure exists in your archive but just double-checking)

December 21 at Fender's Ballroom

December 23 at the Cathouse (you said this is one you missed so I'm guessing no one else taped it)

I just left out the dates of shows that are obviously in existence and widely circulating. It would be great if all of these were safely stored away somewhere but I know some may not be. To save you time from typing a lot out, could you just list the ones you do have or do not have, whichever list is shorter, or even just copy this one and put yes or no near each. This is the holy grail in GN'R collecting and any of this that does exist is pure gold. Please let us know.

Thank you again Marc.

I also shot video at these gigs below that were on your list

April 5 at the Whisky

April 26 at Gazzarri's (Rock and Roll performance is floating around but did you tape Shark Island's show too?)

May 31 at Gazzarri's

July 21 at Bogart's (another show rumored to have leaked)

July 24 at Club Lingere

July 31 at Timbers Ballroom

August 23 at the Whisky

September 20 at the Street Scene Festival

October 23 at the Arlington Theater

October 31 at Ackerman Hall (this I'm almost sure exists in your archive but just double-checking)

December 21 at Fender's Ballroom

Hey Marc, in Alan Nivens last interveiw he mentioned that he wanted Geffen to front about $5000 dollars so they could record GnRs last club show. Can you tell me when and where this was? Also did you tape it and if so, do you have the set list? Were there any memorable moments from this show? Thanks.

The last gig was at the Roxy 3/29/86 I did shoot video but the master got destroyed so all I have is an EP version which doesn't look that good. Axl might have a better copy because I always made him copies after the gigs. The set list has been posted somewhere in the Canterbanner. The gig sounded just like the record because they just got done recording it.

So, like most if not all of their club shows, it kicked ass. I really hope the fans get to hear it all one day. Theres so many great shows from them, it'd be a waste for it to never be heard.

Thanks for responding to my earlier post Marc.

[Creepshow2]

Thanks for responding Marc. I was wondering about those videos for a long time. This March 29 show at the Roxy you're referring to, is that really just the 12am set they played after the 10pm one?

[recklessroad]

Thanks for responding Marc. I was wondering about those videos for a long time. This March 29 show at the Roxy you're referring to, is that really just the 12am set they played after the 10pm one?

No it was a whole year latter

[Creepshow2]

Ohh, cool. I didn't know that show was caught on video. You gave us the set list not too long ago.

Out Ta Get Me, Think About You, Welcome To The Jungle, It’s So Easy, Rocket Queen, Mr. Brownstone, Anything Goes, Sweet Child O’ Mine, Nightrain, My Michelle, You’re Crazy, Paradise City, Move To The City, Mama Kin.

Do you still have the video recorded in EP saved somewhere even if the quality is poor?

[PirateRadio]

Hey Marc, I was planning on making a thread to ask you, but since the show is mentioned here....

Could you please expand on the Timbers Ballroom gig? (Apparently they played there 4-27-1985 too). I got Reckless Road when it came out, and when I saw the flyer for this show in Glendora, CA, I tripped because I lived there when I was a kid. I just couldn't believe Guns, my favorite band ever, played in that far off suburb of LA. I looked up the address of this place, and there's really no info to be found by a google search.

I would love to hear anything you remember. ..like if anybody ever said, What the fuck are you doing here...? haha

Thanks, Marc. Your book is the best out there about Guns N' Roses.

[recklessroad]

because the band was late they only had time to play 6 songs July 31 was the date. I don't remember them playing there on 4/27 so maybe it got canceled. It those days a gig was a gig so if something came up they would do it.

[DieselDaisy]

Do you know anything about these shows, Marc?

These are from John's excellent setlist website, www.GNRontour.com, by the way (just in caseI get into any bother for posting them):

Opening for Stiv Bator's (Dead Boys) new band:

And two flyers for a show at the Roxy. I love the old flyers by the way:

Opening for the, now reformed, Dead Boys on the 15th Nov at the same venue Guns would open for Cheap Trick, the next month:

An intriguing show in San Francisco's The Stone. We do not have the date. All we have is this photo. Slash does mention playing a venue called the Stone in his book if I recall.

[DieselDaisy]

Marc, do you think the above gigs were cancelled then (apart from the mysterious Stone gig) which I know happened a lot? You mention in your book that Guns replaced LA Guns at a Troubador; a lot of this stuff happened, last minute cancelations, different bands drafted in. Or did you miss these shows?

Thanks again.

[recklessroad]

They did a gig in San Francisco a few days before Aug 30 1986

[Creepshow2]

I remember a while back asking in a thread about the March 29 (opening for Lords of the New Church) and November 15 (opening for the Dead Boys) and Marc said they were cancelled. I have no idea about the August 31 at the Roxy or the Stone.

Marc, could you tell us anything about the gig in San Francisco days before Santa Monica? Are there any other shows that happened you may have missed either in Reckless Road or actually attending? The only one I have marked down is November 14, 1985 at the Lipstick Fix which was a 3am party.

[DieselDaisy]

I remember a while back asking in a thread about the March 29 (opening for Lords of the New Church) and November 15 (opening for the Dead Boys) and Marc said they were cancelled. I have no idea about the August 31 at the Roxy or the Stone.

Marc, could you tell us anything about the gig in San Francisco days before Santa Monica? Are there any other shows that happened you may have missed either in Reckless Road or actually attending? The only one I have marked down is November 14, 1985 at the Lipstick Fix which was a 3am party.

Thanks, both. Pity they were cancelled as they were big Dead Boys fans (Ain't It Fun)

Creepshow, what is this Lipstick Fix party? I have never heard of that one. Where did you find out about that?

There are some rather large time gaps in GN'R's schedule. I was actually looking at the gigs in Marc's book and trying to work out when Axl was on the run from the LA cops following the Michelle Young rape charge thing. Apparently the band stopped for awhile. The Gardner Studio period ended and I think in the end they all ended up at Vicky's apartment. I read in a biography that it was in december 85. Yes, I had a bit of free time haha, but I am just interested in this geeky sort of stuff.

Perhaps Marc knows this? I mean he probably when they stopped playing live and it was a bit dangerous to be seen in Axl and Slash's company.

Regarding 'lost gigs', John does have two more shows listed...

1 Feb 1986, Troubadour

3 May 1986, Roxy

He does not have any sources for them (flyers, audio, video etc) so I didn't feel it was worth putting them up. I might email him at some point and ask him where he got his information from. I mean he has obviously used Marc's book since it was released to eradicate a lot of errors and fill in blanks but he still has these dates up for some reason.

And The Stone. It is curious thing, this San Fran gig: furthest they had to play by some considerable extent bar the Gorilla Gardens/Hell Tour gig. Most of their gigs were in West Hollywood with occasional visits to Central Hollywood (Rajis, Stardust Ballroom), Long Beach (Bogart's Fender's Ballroom) and Reseda (Country Club). They also did that show in Annaheim. But , then you have this SF show. How did they get the booking for the SF show etc? It is curious as when Metallica were a club band (which was, 1981-3) they were playing the Bay Area Thrash scene and Los Angeles (and other places). They played most of the same venues that GN'R would later play: The Troub, Music Machine, etc.

[DieselDaisy]

No need to answer that about the 3am party Creepshow. I did a quick search and saw it was Marc who provided that.

I think you are doing what I am doing and sort of, trying to reconstruct what happened. Marc's book was like a beacon of light on this whole period. I mean literally, we knew next to nothing on this whole period before it was published!! The biographies were full of errors (Tracii Guns joining Hollywood Rose in 1983!). But then there are a few little questions I still have (like the Crash Diet demos).

[Creepshow2]

Exactly, I'm also trying to reconstruct what happened and putting in the form of a journal/timeline to help understand it. It starts as early as Slash's first gig and goes all the way to the release of "Sympathy for the Devil" in 1994. I'm trying to include every gig and setlist that is known and anything significant that happened at them. If they recorded a demo or released an album or single, filmed a video, that's in there as well. Even TV appearances of 1 or more GN'R members. It's a very complex and time consuming project but it's worth it when you love a band this much. Hopefully we will find out about those drum machine demos. I haven't stopped listening to them since I heard them.

[DieselDaisy]

Yes, I am doing something similar.

Here is what I have been working on. See what you think...

I think they were rehearsing at 'Gardner Studios', Summer '85 (c. August, certainly no later than 20th Sept when RQ was debuted) to late-December 85 (or perhaps, very early January '86).

We know they wrote RQ, PC, N, and MM there (from Slash and Duff's books) and these were introduced into the setlists during this period - MM would extend the period into early Jan assuming it was played immediately. Axl lived here first. Slash moved in when he lost his job at the newstand. Izzy slept here for a period also (according to Del James). I read in a biography that the Michelle Young rape charges, which brought the period to an end, happened to be December '86. So it fits. They were certainly out there by late-feb as that is when they first played OTGM and that song is based on the whole rape thing.

Vicky Hamilton's apartment: probably Jan 86 to April 86 (Axl lived there first, then Slash, then I think the rest of the band).

They were still there, early April as they conducted that Miusic Connection interview from there for Karen Burch, the one where they trashed her tape recorder. Axl however still occasionally stayed there after this period as he didn't like the Geffen apartment. Vicky was evicted, June '86.

Geffen Apartment. I would say, late April/Mayish - July.

Slash says they were only there about three months before they were evicted. Paul Stanley visited them here and the Raji's gig, which also was visited by Stanley, was, 13th May, so it is a fair guess to say they were living there before the 13th May.

'Stiefel House'. Julyi/August - Sept '86.

This is the house Niven visited, with the broken toilet outside, so that would put it, July/August ish. They were recording LLAS at Pasha when Niven visited so that also gives us August. SCOM was written at Burbank studios (that was their rehearsal space) and that song was debuted, 23 August. They were also still there when they opened for Nugent (30 August). They were evicted when Niven became manager which was, Sept/Oct (he was working informally before then I believe) but according to Slash they stayed on a bit longer. It may be October when they left then as it was pretty much official and widely known by then that Niven was manager and there is no way Arnold Stieffel would still provide a house for them under those circumstances.

It is also worth pointing out that Duff was usually living with his girlfriend through much of this period: It was mostly Axl and Slash, and occasionally Izzy and Adler (depending on the girlfriend situation), who were homeless and living at these places. And the Hellhouse also served as an occasional doss-pad and band HQ in 1986.

[Creepshow2]

Wow, you really did a lot of research on that whole situation. That saved me a lot of time since I hadn't focused on the living situations just yet because of all the setlists I've been compiling. August 1985 definitely sounds right for the rehearsals because they recorded the first demo then and it had to be finished before Sept. 20 because I remember Marc saying Axl was disappointed that "Rocket Queen" wasn't on there. He had written it right after they finished.

Regarding "My Michelle", what did you mean by "Michelle Young rape charges"? I thought the cops were after Axl and Slash because of some random girl that was hanging around. And that Michelle was a good friend of the band. Also, the song debuted January 4, 1986 which is the same day Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy died. Since I haven't heard the entire audio of the show, do you know if Axl mentions anything about it or if the news had even reached the United States yet?

[DieselDaisy]

Vicky Hamilton mentions it:

Axl had come to my house six months earlier looking for couch to crash on for a night or two, and it ended up being six months. He was in trouble with the cops, something about a rape accusation that was not true, with a girl named Michelle, and her mother was involved, kind of a tag team. That’s where the song “My Michelle” comes from. He wrote that song while he was living at my house.

http://www.metalsludge.tv/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2733&Itemid=52

(Six months by the way. That would also support the notion that Axl was living there from Jan-June although the others had moved into the Geffen place).

According to The Saga of Guns N' Roses by Stephen Davis (good book by the way but full of errors for the 1984-86 period) Michelle Young dropped the charges and became friends with the band again.

[Creepshow2]

I just read it. So is "Out Ta Get Me" about a different similar situation?

By the way, here's the format of my project...

April 25, 1985

Guns N’ Roses perform at the Dancing Waters Club in Los Angeles, CA.

SET LIST

(incomplete)

NOTES

?

April 27, 1985

Guns N’ Roses perform at the Timbers Club in Glendora, CA.

SET LIST

(incomplete)

NOTES

?

May 1985

Duff misses the next Guns N’ Roses rehearsal. Axl senses that he might quit so he convinces him to give it another chance. Duff explains that he doesn’t think Tracii and Rob are committed enough for what Axl and Izzy are working to achieve. Axl doesn’t argue. Duff is tired of playing in the same places and suggests the idea of a West Coast tour to Axl and Izzy. Duff believes it will test the strength of the band and find weak links. Axl and Izzy agree.

Duff starts booking venues that he has previously played at or worked as a roadie for the Fastbacks. The tour would start in Seattle, Washington on June 12 at Gorilla Gardens. Other venues include the 13th Precinct in Portland, Oregon, a communal punk house in Eugene, Oregon, a house in Sacramento, California, and a club called Mabuhay Gardens in San Francisco, California. Tracii and Rob are skeptical about the tour, not knowing where they would sleep each night. Rob eventually backs out and then Tracii quits Guns N’ Roses to start up L.A. Guns again.

May 1985

Slash joins Black Sheep.

Black Sheep line-up:

Willie Basse - Vocals | Slash - Lead Guitar | Paul Carmen - Bass | Todd DeVito - Drums

The sections with more information filled in look better...

July 4, 1985

Guns N’ Roses perform at Madame Wong’s East in Los Angeles, CA.

SET LIST

Reckless Life, Shadow of Your Love, Jumpin’ Jack Flash, Think About You, Move to the City, Don’t Cry, Nice Boys, Back Off Bitch, Mama Kin, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

NOTES

Very few people show up and the band goes on late. Slash and Izzy tell the audience to move up to the front. The sound man cuts the PA system during “Heartbreak Hotel” because they have played long past their allotted time. They refuse to stop. They pull together and finish the song without the PA system. It would be the last time they would play at Madame Wong’s East.

July 20, 1985

Guns N’ Roses perform at the Troubadour in West Hollywood, CA.

OPENING FOR

The Joneses

BILLED WITH

Jetboy

SET LIST

Reckless Life, Shadow of Your Love, Welcome to the Jungle, Jumpin’ Jack Flash, Think About You, Move to the City, Don’t Cry, Nice Boys, Back Off Bitch, Mama Kin, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

NOTES

First live performance of “Welcome to the Jungle.” Backstage, the band is asked to play at a UCLA fraternity party the following night.

July 21, 1985

Guns N’ Roses perform at UCLA in Los Angeles, CA.

SET LIST

Welcome to the Jungle, Move to the City, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Reckless Life, Think About You, Nice Boys, Back Off Bitch, Don't Cry, Mama Kin, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

NOTES

This show is at a fraternity party. They are paid with beer and $30.

[DieselDaisy]

I have just read the different accounts of the rape thing. They contradict each other slightly.

It is only Vicky who seems to connect Michelle Young with the girl. Slash (his book) doesn't mention that it is Michelle which is curious as he has just talked about Michelle Young a few pages earlier in connection with the song! Axl, in an interview in LA Weekly (quoted and paraphrased in Davis's book) says it was an underage 'hippy chick.'

She apparently got stoned, had sex with Axl in the loft space, then freaked out and smashed gear. Axl then kicked her out and she proceeded to run naked down Sunset. This is all from Axl's LA Weekly version. It doesn't really contradict Slash's much at this stage.

But, Axl says the raid happened that night while Axl was hiding behind an amp (having sex with another girl). There was a line-up, Michelle (if it is her) was brought in and picked out someone, other than Axl. The cops though told Axl to turn himself in for statuory rape and left. Slash also seems to have been accused with statuory rape. The LAPD Vice Squad then got interested and put the Gardner alley under surveilance for 'pimping minors'. Slash says, the raid occured after the incident with only Adler present.

Axl initially slep rough in order to avoid prosecution. Slash says he went to live with a girlfriend in Orange County. There was a gig cancelled on the Dec 20th at the Music Machine according to Davis. And then they ended up at Vicky's. Izzy apparently phoned Vicky's one night and said, ''Vicky - you gotta hide Axl'' (this is from an interview with Vicky). Shortly after this, the rest of GN'R absconded Gardner for Vicky's one night. There may have been a second statuory rape against Slash at this stage also.

Soon, the charges were dropped. Vicky hired some lawyers and Axl had to attend court in a suit (Slash's book). There was also a rumour that Axl had sex with Michelle's mother who then persuaded her daughter to drop all charges.

I wish I could get my hands on the Axl interview. I think it is..

- Morrow, Scott. ''L.A. Rocks: The Big Bang Theory.'' L.A. Weekly, June 27 1986.

[recklessroad]

It was not Michelle Young

[DieselDaisy]

Interesting. Thanks Marc for clearing that up.

Vicky Hamilton's memory is not the greatest. She seems to confuse the moment Slash and Steven joined Rose (June 1984), with when they joined GN'R (exactly one year later):

 Chris Weber - the guitarist in Hollywood Rose - moved to New York City for a while, which is when Tracii Guns was in the band for a season. Then entered bassist Duff McKagen and drummer Steven Adler. Tracii Guns decided to continue with his vision, LA Guns, and this is when Slash entered the band as its guitarist and Guns N' Roses were born. 

And the Black Sheep thing is a puzzler:

 I had booked Hollywood Rose and Black Sheep as openers for Stryper at the Music Machine. I remember introducing Slash to Axl that night. Who knew that this would be the beginning of Guns N' Roses? 

(Black Sheep were not around when Hollywood Rose were active, correct, and anyhow, Black Sheep only played one gig and that was not at the Music Machine?)

Not that I am criticisng her or anything as my memory is awful also and it must be hard to remember events twenty years' later. Especially when you are sort of, living the moment and there is a lot of bands floating around (Hollywood Rose, Road Crew, LA Guns, London, Black Sheep, GN'R!!). She was managing bands like Stryper and Poison at the time so it is understandable.

[raska27]

The gig at the Stone was Thursday 28th August, with Jetboy & Vain.

Edited April 26, 2013 by raska27