What's the real difference between hard rock and metal?

[Towelie]

Inspired by my thread "what's the closest GnR have come to doing a metal song?"

There seemed to be a bit of confusion/disagreement over this issue. What makes a song metal as opposed to hard rock? Many consider Sabbath and Zeppelin to be early metal outfits, but I would argue that Zeppelin are more hard rock and much of Sabbath's material post-Master Of Reality is more rock based.

Some folks say GNR have never done a metal song, yet I hear far more metal influences in songs like Shacklers and OMG than anything Metallica did in the 90s. I often hear albums like The Black Album and British Steel lauded as defining metal classics, yet both albums always struck me more as hard rock.

Does anyone really know the difference?

Edited April 25, 2013 by Towelie

[Guest Len B'stard]

Metal is a lot more dense and lacking in a groove in the typical sense i suppose? It was sort of thickos playing the blues without the talent to know when to let it breathe but in doing that sort of invented like...a form of music more based on power whereas Hard Rock maintains a lot of the early elements of rock n roll.

Metal and Punk, as someone once put it, is like white mans rock. I ain't saying that to be insulting to anyone, i just took that to mean that it is devoid of like...it's not funky, y'know, it's more about power and less about dance-ability.

Of course over the years genres have melded together and crossed-over and i'm sure umpteen people could cite me examples of metal that is groovy and danceable but the question is such that the only way to answer it is based on the fundamentals tenets of what those genres were about to start with.

The idea that the concept of "groove" is racially exclusive is a silly concept but i think when people say these things it's more to do with reflecting how history has, broadly speaking that is, panned out and less to do with any inherent qualities that are racially exclusive.

[izzygirl]

Metal - Iron Maiden

Hard Rock - AC/DC

That's how I distinguish one from the other.

[Powerage5]

Metal - Iron Maiden

Hard Rock - AC/DC

That's how I distinguish one from the other.

As simple as that is, that's exactly how I distinguish the difference too. You can't confuse AC/DC for a metal band, and likewise, you can't confuse Iron Maiden for a hard rock band.

There's some elements which really differentiate them. The biggest to me is lyrical content. Rock bands write about sex, drugs and rock and roll. Metal bands don't. It's tougher to generalize what metal bands put into their lyrics, but it's more stuff based out of folklore, philosophical/contemplative, "badass", etc. This is one of the categories that keeps Sabbath in the metal genre.

Another differentiating factor is, generally speaking, the songs are more complex musically. Hard rock is still based in the blues, and this is especially evident in the guitar solos. Hard rock solos are born out of a bluesey style, but with a harder edge. Metal solos are born out of a neo-classical style for the most part; that's where techniques like tapping came into play. The drumming is another aspect; busier parts, using double bass, etc. Also tempos are more relentless and time signatures are more likely to be unusual in metal.

[JKKDARK]

Metal sounds heavier than Hard Rock.

[DieselDaisy]

Heavy Metal: Relies on modal 'classical' scales.

Hard Rock: Relies on 'blues' minor Pentatonic (only played heavier and more distorted than under the blues or rock n' roll).

[Johnny Drama]

Hard Rock - bluesier, swings in the rhythm section

Metal - no blues, tends to be pretty straight in with its rhythm, has a darker feel

[bran]

it is really hard to answer. hard rock has an identifiable sound, metal has such a wide range of sounds. some metal bands really blur the line between hard rock and metal bands like saint vitus, amorphis(later albums) opeth(later albums).

there really isnt a set sound with metal. it is a very diverse genre with tons of sub genres that have its own style, rhythms, chord progressions, tempo shifts etc. it is hard to set up one sound that is "metal" hard rock has a pretty defined sound to it.

[wasted]

is it the lack of blues in metal?

in someways people keep inventing words to describe something heavier?

rock n roll, rock, hard rock, what's harder than rock? metal, what's harder than metal? industrial, what's harder than industrial? Hello kitty?

without starting a new thread.

were the grunge bands blues based?

I guess Nirvana isn't? But AIC and PJ were?

[luciusfunk]

What about hard rock that's not blues based?

[Randy Lahey]

Hard Rock still has a little boogie in the rhythm section.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Didn't metal basically come from people trying

To play blues riffs anyway though?

[Guest NGOG]

Lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with distinguishing between the two. Absolutely nothing.

It's not easy to articulate, you just kind of know. I think a lot of it's in the drums. Hard Rock never really loses its cohesiveness, whereas metal deviates from the very purpose of the song.

Edited April 26, 2013 by NGOG

[GivenToFly]

were the grunge bands blues based?

I guess Nirvana isn't? But AIC and PJ were?

Nirvana was punk. Pearl Jam was blues rock. Soundgarden was metal.

[Johnny Drama]

Didn't metal basically come from people trying

To play blues riffs anyway though?

Well I guess Sabbath was metal albeit bluesy and they swang, but they were metal by virtue of their shit being droning and heavy as fuck.

If say Jerry continued that, hence AIC are all about droning, heavy riffs but are still bluesy in the solos.

[Powerage5]

Lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with distinguishing between the two. Absolutely nothing.

It's not easy to articulate, you just kind of know. I think a lot of it's in the drums. Hard Rock never really loses its cohesiveness, whereas metal deviates from the very purpose of the song.

lol, ok.

Name a hard rock band that could use Dio, Slayer, or Testament's lyrics without it being immensely cheesy and awkward. Likewise, name a metal band that could use AC/DC, Aerosmith, or Van Halen's lyrics without it being lame.

The only band that can straddle the line between hard rock and metal, either musically or lyrically, is Motorhead.

[Johnny Drama]

I've never thought of Motorhead as metal even though they are THE speed metal band.

[Powerage5]

I've never thought of Motorhead as metal even though they are THE speed metal band.

They don't consider themselves metal either. But I can see where some people would.

[Chewbacca]

Metal usually focus on the high and low end, the famous "scoop" while hard rock relies way more on the mids.

[Black Roses]

Hard Rock's theme is more girl/love/relationship.

Heavy Metal's them is more war/politic.

HM is heavier than HR.

[Gracii Guns]

I've always defined Hard Rock as heavy rock music with a definite punk influence.

[Coma16]

were the grunge bands blues based?

I guess Nirvana isn't? But AIC and PJ were?

Nirvana was punk. Pearl Jam was blues rock. Soundgarden was metal.

So wtf is "alternative rock" then? I generally accept it as 90s rock but is there something more to it?

[wasted]

were the grunge bands blues based?

I guess Nirvana isn't? But AIC and PJ were?

Nirvana was punk. Pearl Jam was blues rock. Soundgarden was metal.

Louder than Love sounded like Zeppelin to me but Badmotorfinger definitely metal.

[Towelie]

What a load of shit to all of it.

I don't believe anybody here has given a satisfactory answer to the question. I don't think anyone really knows...

[wasted]

Think Spinal Tap.