Punk: From Chaos to Couture (The Met)

[Redhead74]

For those who don't already know, The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York has chosen Punk as the influence and inspiration for this year's fashion exhibition. The exhibition has one month left and encapsulates the influence punk has had on high fashion.

It wasn't just a music genre that influenced the youth of the day, it has continued to have an influence on designers right up to the present day. Versace, Alexander McQueen, Vivienne Westwood, Comme de Garcons, Junya Watanabe, Martin Margiela, Helmut Lang and Karl Lagerfeld, amongst many other high profile and avante garde designers, have been influenced by the movement.

The Sex Pistols, Joe Strummer, Patti Smith, amongst others are well represented. It really tickles my fancy to know that a little shit like John Lydon had such a far reaching influence. That guy fucking rocks!!!!

Anna Wintour please kiss John Lydon's ass right now!

[Redhead74]

[magisme]

If punk wasn't dead before, it is now.

[Redhead74]

If punk wasn't dead before, it is now.

Fuck off, you philistine!

[dalsh327]

How can they say Vivienne Westwood (or Betsey Johnson, not mentioned but might as well have been) was influenced by punk??

The art and fashion aspect of it was important, I see things today that people wear in the office that come from punk rock - and when hardcore punk happened, then it was the artists involved in surf & skate culture - not so much fashion, but def. a lot of tattoo artists getting a lot of work.

Edited July 14, 2013 by dalsh327

[netcat]

Vivienne Westwood created punk and Sex Pistols in particular, together with Malcolm McLaren

[Redhead74]

^ Exactly. If you look at the body of Vivienne's work she is, and always has been, pure punk. She has covered a lot of ground throughout her career, but she never deviates from the essence of punk. It's one if the things I love her for. She has complete and utter conviction and no matter what the changing trends are she always stays true to that which she is at heart. That is pure creativity and belief in what you are doing. Respect to Vivienne, respect!!!!

[netcat]

what i like about Vivienne Westwood is while most of the looks from her podium collections are way too radical for everyday life, most of clothes and accessories, if you take them separately, can easily fit into casual or even business style.

i had this bag for years now and it's still my favorite

http://designerhandbags.me.uk/vivienne-westwood-tartan-winter-bag/

[Guest Len B'stard]

Vivienne and Malcolm had something to do with punk in terms of the look of a very specific section of it, other than that they were just a bunch of haberdashers with a lot of gob and front and not much else. I love some of Viv Westwoods designs, i think she's great but to say she created punk is an absolute load of fuckin' bollocks.

You think fans of the Sham 69s and Cockney Rejects and the many many punk bands that weren't part of the West London lot gave a fucking shit about Viv Westwoods design and Malcolms 'philosophy'?

[Zint]

Vivienne Westwood created punk

Wow, Vivienne Westwood wrote some amazing songs!

I really connected to them..

[netcat]

Vivienne Westwood created punk

Wow, Vivienne Westwood wrote some amazing songs!

I really connected to them..

wow it's punk as a fashion style we're talking about

Edited July 15, 2013 by netcat

[netcat]

Vivienne and Malcolm had something to do with punk in terms of the look of a very specific section of it, other than that they were just a bunch of haberdashers with a lot of gob and front and not much else. I love some of Viv Westwoods designs, i think she's great but to say she created punk is an absolute load of fuckin' bollocks.

You think fans of the Sham 69s and Cockney Rejects and the many many punk bands that weren't part of the West London lot gave a fucking shit about Viv Westwoods design and Malcolms 'philosophy'?

what i meant to say is she created iconic punk looks still most often exploited by high fashion and casual mainstream designers

[dalsh327]

Vivienne and Malcolm had something to do with punk in terms of the look of a very specific section of it, other than that they were just a bunch of haberdashers with a lot of gob and front and not much else. I love some of Viv Westwoods designs, i think she's great but to say she created punk is an absolute load of fuckin' bollocks.

You think fans of the Sham 69s and Cockney Rejects and the many many punk bands that weren't part of the West London lot gave a fucking shit about Viv Westwoods design and Malcolms 'philosophy'?

They created a focal point for it, but it was a collective of people from different parts of the UK and US.

There's no one person in particular that could take credit for the style and look of punk rock. Vivienne is important to an extent, but so were the other people around at the time. Jamie Reid is probably one of the most unknown names yet everyone knows his work.

http://www.jamiereid.org/

[Guest Len B'stard]

Jamie Reid was fantastic, i've more than heard his name, his work and work he influenced are all over the fuckin' place.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I just saw the Buzzcocks song Boredom on a Sainsburys advert

[dalsh327]

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/adam-ant-interview-071513

[ohlovelyrita]

dalsh327, on 14 Jul 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

How can they say Vivienne Westwood (or Betsey Johnson, not mentioned but might as well have been) was influenced by punk??

The art and fashion aspect of it was important, I see things today that people wear in the office that come from punk rock - and when hardcore punk happened, then it was the artists involved in surf & skate culture - not so much fashion, but def. a lot of tattoo artists getting a lot of work.

It's all connected. Roughly around the same time, Westwood and Mclaren had a child and Betsey Johnson and John Cale were briefly married. The Sex Pistols emerged from the London King Road's punk scene and The Velvet Underground from the Warhol Factory scene. Zandra Rhodes may be the first to do punk couture? Westwood wasn't pleased with her (copycat?) but to Zandra's credit she designed some of Freddie Mercury's costumes!

Then there is Wayne County (now Jayne County) who played CBGB's before Patti Smith. Was she the first punk? Not sure. She is featured in the Met Exhibit. I think she has her own wall. I'd skip it I don't need to see a replication of CBGB's bathroom when I had the displeasure of the real thing!

[Guest Len B'stard]

If you're gonna drag Wayne County in then The Dictators deserve a mention, Jayne/Wayne apparently beat the fuck outta Handsome Dick Manitoba, no easy feat considering he was a fuckin wrestler.

I do think people try too hard to connect the NYC and London scenes though.

How about Suicide? Now THAT was fuckin' punk..

Edited July 18, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Redhead74]

Vivienne and Malcolm had something to do with punk in terms of the look of a very specific section of it, other than that they were just a bunch of haberdashers with a lot of gob and front and not much else. I love some of Viv Westwoods designs, i think she's great but to say she created punk is an absolute load of fuckin' bollocks.

You think fans of the Sham 69s and Cockney Rejects and the many many punk bands that weren't part of the West London lot gave a fucking shit about Viv Westwoods design and Malcolms 'philosophy'?

what i meant to say is she created iconic punk looks still most often exploited by high fashion and casual mainstream designers

I think it's fair to say that she is today acknowledged with being such a contributor to the punk look because of the fact that she was the most high profile designer over the years and she has always stood fast to her design philosophy. She never compromises. She has definitely turned out to be the designer with the greatest longevity and skill, regardless of who actually created the look. A movement or style is never created by one person anyway, but there is definitely one person who is attributed with being the biggest influence, usually due to longevity and a non compromise attitude.

[dalsh327]

dalsh327, on 14 Jul 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

How can they say Vivienne Westwood (or Betsey Johnson, not mentioned but might as well have been) was influenced by punk??

The art and fashion aspect of it was important, I see things today that people wear in the office that come from punk rock - and when hardcore punk happened, then it was the artists involved in surf & skate culture - not so much fashion, but def. a lot of tattoo artists getting a lot of work.

It's all connected. Roughly around the same time, Westwood and Mclaren had a child and Betsey Johnson and John Cale were briefly married. The Sex Pistols emerged from the London King Road's punk scene and The Velvet Underground from the Warhol Factory scene. Zandra Rhodes may be the first to do punk couture? Westwood wasn't pleased with her (copycat?) but to Zandra's credit she designed some of Freddie Mercury's costumes!

Then there is Wayne County (now Jayne County) who played CBGB's before Patti Smith. Was she the first punk? Not sure. She is featured in the Met Exhibit. I think she has her own wall. I'd skip it I don't need to see a replication of CBGB's bathroom when I had the displeasure of the real thing!

There is no 'first punk', Lance Loud from "American Family" was also a part of early punk rock and one of the first reality TV celebrities.

Dictators - absolutely, Wayne County, Suicide and others wanting to shock, outrage, be confrontational, sure.

The Screamers - Tomata DuPlenty is another name that's come up in people "who were there".

New York and London in the early 70s had some crossing over and people going back and forth, and it all tied into what would happen in '75-'76. There was plenty to be pissed off about in either city, kids feeling lost and adrift, angry, unsure of all sorts of things, and music being the only thing they could channel it through at the time.

The thing Lydon got pissed off about is McLaren & Westwood taking credit for all things punk related. He'd say they earned maybe a wedge for some of the marketing, but not the pie and her clothes were damn expensive for a bunch of poor boys, and I'm sure they turned the other way when Jonesy was shopping around *L*.

[ohlovelyrita]

dalsh327, on 14 Jul 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

How can they say Vivienne Westwood (or Betsey Johnson, not mentioned but might as well have been) was influenced by punk??

The art and fashion aspect of it was important, I see things today that people wear in the office that come from punk rock - and when hardcore punk happened, then it was the artists involved in surf & skate culture - not so much fashion, but def. a lot of tattoo artists getting a lot of work.

It's all connected. Roughly around the same time, Westwood and Mclaren had a child and Betsey Johnson and John Cale were briefly married. The Sex Pistols emerged from the London King Road's punk scene and The Velvet Underground from the Warhol Factory scene. Zandra Rhodes may be the first to do punk couture? Westwood wasn't pleased with her (copycat?) but to Zandra's credit she designed some of Freddie Mercury's costumes!

Then there is Wayne County (now Jayne County) who played CBGB's before Patti Smith. Was she the first punk? Not sure. She is featured in the Met Exhibit. I think she has her own wall. I'd skip it I don't need to see a replication of CBGB's bathroom when I had the displeasure of the real thing!

There is no 'first punk', Lance Loud from "American Family" was also a part of early punk rock and one of the first reality TV celebrities.

Dictators - absolutely, Wayne County, Suicide and others wanting to shock, outrage, be confrontational, sure.

The Screamers - Tomata DuPlenty is another name that's come up in people "who were there".

New York and London in the early 70s had some crossing over and people going back and forth, and it all tied into what would happen in '75-'76. There was plenty to be pissed off about in either city, kids feeling lost and adrift, angry, unsure of all sorts of things, and music being the only thing they could channel it through at the time.

The thing Lydon got pissed off about is McLaren & Westwood taking credit for all things punk related. He'd say they earned maybe a wedge for some of the marketing, but not the pie and her clothes were damn expensive for a bunch of poor boys, and I'm sure they turned the other way when Jonesy was shopping around *L*.

Lance Loud--great reference! It seems there was a gal who worked at the McLaren/Westwood boutique "Sex" that really dictated what the kids would be wearing. Sid Vicious was a clothes horse. Not exactly the coolest guy around if he loved fashion but then be became the poster boy most of it earned. Most people also thought he was a sweet guy if that matters.

If you're gonna drag Wayne County in then The Dictators deserve a mention, Jayne/Wayne apparently beat the fuck outta Handsome Dick Manitoba, no easy feat considering he was a fuckin wrestler.

I do think people try too hard to connect the NYC and London scenes though.

How about Suicide? Now THAT was fuckin' punk..

The exhibition is in the costume wing of the MET. It is about fashion mostly not at all a comprehensive history of the influence of punk on anything but fashion. I really am not interested in seeing punk interpreted by Versace or the like. Jayne/Wayne County superbly wore garbage and the exhibit featured garbage as fashion on the low and high end. https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q74/s720x720/1069967_587109521339913_1130984647_n.jpg

From 5:52 is the "found objects". http://www.metmuseum.org/metmedia/video/collections/ci/punk-gallery-viewsI I really want to see Wayne County's tribute here but can't find it.

No doubt Suicide is a seminal band like T.V. or Talking Heads but like The Dictators none influence

corporate fashion which is what the costume institute is about for better or worse.

Edited July 18, 2013 by ohlovelyrita

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think people make too much of the clothes end, important as it is, it's mostly like...the corporate establishment end that have latched onto that, probably cuz it's the most marketable aspect. All this stuff i think poisons the spirit of punk somewhat.

Edited July 18, 2013 by sugaraylen

[dalsh327]

Almost every style in music has had a corresponding look to it. Some people will always fight the idea of punk rock in a museum or rock n' roll in a museum, same thing with the art of rap being in museums, but album art, logos, designs, concert fliers, posters, etc - that's all modern art. It's probably 'too soon' for some people, but it's good for kids growing up on Katy Perry or Avril Lavigne hearing things being called "punk rock" actually seeing and hearing what it is from the people who were there at the time experiencing it.

You can't recreate a unique phenomenon, but you can take what's been documented and show people what it was like for them. Otherwise it's no better than going to see a bunch of Gettysburg reenactments...

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think it's vile..

[Redhead74]

The exhibition is in the costume wing of the MET. It is about fashion mostly not at all a comprehensive history of the influence of punk on anything but fashion. I really am not interested in seeing punk interpreted by Versace or the like. Jayne/Wayne County superbly wore garbage and the exhibit featured garbage as fashion on the low and high end. https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q74/s720x720/1069967_587109521339913_1130984647_n.jpg

Yes, people shouldn't think that this exhibition is anything more than a fashion exhibition. It's really just to document the influence that punk (as a musical style) has had on fashion and continues to have. I know pure 'punkists' (if that's a word) will see a dilution of the true spirit of punk, but as a person who works in fashion I find it really interesting to see the influence punk has had on people who would not relate to it in it purest sense. I think it's a compliment to what those guys who created it have achieved.

I think people make too much of the clothes end, important as it is, it's mostly like...the corporate establishment end that have latched onto that, probably cuz it's the most marketable aspect. All this stuff i think poisons the spirit of punk somewhat.

I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. It's not trying to dilute or change the original meaning and intention at all. But it shows how far reaching the style has become. I also disagree that it's just about marketing. Sure these fashion designers want to sell clothes, but the irony is lost on me that the original creators of punk were the complete anithesis of the fashion world. They were anti fashion, yet here they are now being revered for being anti fashion. I love it. I think it shows that self expression speaks more loudly than just taking what some 'cool' designer is dictating.