Would CD have made it "the best album ever" if released as a standard 10-track album?

[classicrawker]

For

I think it has good flow like it is. There's a momentum to each side. Especially on vinyl you notice how each side builds to a climax.

more like a case of blue balls...it teases with anticipation and never delivers a climax..........

For someone who doesn't like CD you sure spend a lot of time discussing it. I tend to spend my time on things I enjoy, but that's just me.

Just trying to reel you and the other dreamers back to some semblance of reality............................ .

[Black Sabbath]

I'd leae off:

Shackler's

Scraped

Sorry

TIL

Then replace the other track by earlier versions of them. Still no chance of it being a hit though. Unless it'd have been released in 2000/2001.

I love all of the tracks, but if I had to pick some to leave off it would probably be Scared and Riad. They seem to get less of a response then other songs to.

I definitely disagree with taking This I Love off, though. Other than Better, I'd say This I Love gets the most response during live performances, surprisingly.

[username]

I'd leae off:

Shackler's

Scraped

Sorry

TIL

Then replace the other track by earlier versions of them. Still no chance of it being a hit though. Unless it'd have been released in 2000/2001.

I love all of the tracks, but if I had to pick some to leave off it would probably be Scared and Riad. They seem to get less of a response then other songs to.

I definitely disagree with taking This I Love off, though. Other than Better, I'd say This I Love gets the most response during live performances, surprisingly.

I've never actually heard what a cat sounds like when it's being run over by a lawnmower. But I imagine TIL comes close.

Seriously though, you're probably right - many (insane?) people seem to like it and it gets a good response. I just hate it personally. Aside from Scraped I find it the poorest track on CD and I honestly can't stand listening to that whinefest all the way through.

[Apollo]

I'd leae off:

Shackler's

Scraped

Sorry

TIL

Then replace the other track by earlier versions of them. Still no chance of it being a hit though. Unless it'd have been released in 2000/2001.

I love all of the tracks, but if I had to pick some to leave off it would probably be Scared and Riad. They seem to get less of a response then other songs to.

I definitely disagree with taking This I Love off, though. Other than Better, I'd say This I Love gets the most response during live performances, surprisingly.

Isn't Scared a Dangerous Toys song?

************

Why in the world would taking songs off an album make it better?

If CD was the greatest GnR album of all time then the stronger songs would clearly make that point. Deleting a few songs doesn't make an album better.....just shorter.

[moreblack]

It has no shot in any possible version of being the best anything.

[Apollo]

It has no shot in any possible version of being the best anything.

But I still think it could have been a "classic" album.

Obviously everybody has different favorite and musical tastes.

But if CD had contained Better, SOD, Catcher, Twat and say Shacklers...........and then 10 more songs at the exact same level - three Betters, three TWATs, three Catchers.........if that made up the 15 song list, that's an album that I think could have been huge.

[wfuckinga]

Madagascar is a lot better than Estranged.

[rockerman]

... CD for the hardcore fan base was old before it was even new.

Possible but not really relevant. Im talking about greatest album ever made as far as reviewers are concerned. They certainly didn't spend hundreds of hours listening to the demos.

Neither did the general audience.

True but even the high school kids who presented me with another copy of CD the next day after it was released had no use for it. (the new generation of music fans) They oddly enough liked the old stuff. Radio stations played it for a nano second..usually with the baggage attached..some smart ass comment on Axls Folly..or something to that degree.

My era of listeners in my circle of associates and friends.. all went meh... whatever... there just wasnt something appealing about Cd to them...

I live in a pretty hard rock oriented community and to date I have yet to discover Chinese Democracy on anybodies Ipod or being played in their cars or houses... It is an album that everybody knows about but very few listen to with facination and regard. Outside of this forum and what can only be described as "listeners" even know or care who is in GNR ...They can tell you who plays on SCOM but mention CD and they simply dont know or they dont care because GNR to them is a non issue. I put together a party to go see them in Denver ...good show.. fun.. woow but after that... still not GNR 92 Denver.

Its a broad generalization I know but I consider this factor... GEN X ...the main stay of GNR's fanbase is going about living into and through middle age. CD didnt fire them up like AFD and UYI did... no way no how.... AFD was a rebel yell a rally cry and a defiant fuck you to the world.... UYI was a growth.. a matureing... defiant fuck you to the world....... CD was...well what was it? TO me it was confusing and depressing.. Seeing Axl whine on TIL... that just shattered the legends about him.

Unless Axl can appeal to this generation of minutia attention kids... and get under thier skins like he did in the 90's... then CD's sales are about as good as you can expect as is the appeal to larger fandom.

There is no way to push CD on the public. Touring it for the better part of 13 years on and off has not got it to catch on as like touring the hell out of AFD eventually forced the breakthrough. The only way I see it getting more attention is cross promotion..a movie soundtrack, a video.. an awards ceremony and gasp.. who would have thought the Harley Davidson commercial might have been a good start. But going to a commercial from the get go might have seemed a bit to desperate... who really knows why and at this stage of the story who really cares? CD has run its course.. the sales will pick up if and when the new album ever drops... But thats if there is a different approach from the head honcho concerning his product..otherwise GNR's music is destined from here on out to have "cult following status"

We all know that GNR will continue on riding on the laurels of its heyday... thats almost a certain. We know that the general public will show up to listen to BBF Fortus and Dj play their version of Slash and Izzys best material.. thats a given. What we dont know as of yet is if they can equal or better them with material all their own in their own right and in their own place. What we dont know is they cn write music that somehow grabs you by your life and never goes away like the songs of AFD, Lies and UYI did.

Edited January 3, 2014 by rockerman

[Apollo]

... CD for the hardcore fan base was old before it was even new.

Possible but not really relevant. Im talking about greatest album ever made as far as reviewers are concerned. They certainly didn't spend hundreds of hours listening to the demos.

Neither did the general audience.

True but even the high school kids who presented me with another copy of CD the next day after it was released had no use for it. They oddly enough liked the old stuff. Radio stations played it for a nano second..usually with the baggage attached..some smart ass comment on Axls Folly..or something to that degree.

My era of listeners in my circle of associates and friends.. all went meh... whatever... there just wasnt something appealing about Cd to them...

I live in a pretty hard rock oriented community and to date I have yet to discover Chinese Democracy on anybodies Ipod or being played in their cars or houses... It is an album that everybody knows about but very few listen to with facination and regard. Outside of this forum and what can only be described as "listeners" even know or care who is in GNR ...They can tell you who plays on SCOM but mention CD and they simply dont know or they dont care because GNR to them is a non issue. I put together a party to go see them in Denver ...good show.. fun.. woow but after that... still not GNR 92 Denver.

Its a broad generalization I know but I consider this factor... GEN X ...the main stay of GNR's fanbase is going about living into and through middle age. CD didnt fire them up like AFD and UYI did... no way no how.... AFD was a rebel yell a rally cry and a defiant fuck you to the world.... UYI was a growth.. a matureing... defiant fuck you to the world....... CD was...well what was it? TO me it was confusing and depressing.. Seeing Axl whine on TIL... that just shattered the legends about him.

Unless Axl can appeal to this generation of minutia attention kids... and get under thier skins like he did in the 90's... then CD's sales are about as good as you can expect as is the appeal to larger fandom.

There is no way to push CD on the public. Touring it for the better part of 13 years on and off has not got it to catch on as like touring the hell out of AFD eventually forced the breakthrough. The only way I see it getting more attention is cross promotion..a movie soundtrack, a video.. an awards ceremony and gasp.. who would have thought the Harley Davidson commercial might have been a good start. But going to a commercial from the get go might have seemed a bit to desperate... who really knows why and at this stage of the story who really cares? CD has run its course.. the sales will pick up if and when the new album ever drops... But thats if there is a different approach from the head honcho concerning his product..otherwise GNR's music is destined from here on out to have "cult following status"

We all know that GNR will continue on riding on the laurels of its heyday... thats almost a certain. We know that the general public will show up to listen to BBF Fortus and Dj play their version of Slash and Izzys best material.. thats a given. What we dont know as of yet is if they can equal or better them with material all their own in their own right and in their own place. What we dont know is they cn write music that somehow grabs you by your life and never goes away like the songs of AFD, Lies and UYI did.

Great post.

[Crash Diet]

Madagascar is a lot better than Estranged.

Cather In The Rye is a lot better than Yesterdays.

There Was A Time is better than Breakdown.

Sorry is better than Don't Cry.

Street of Dreams is just as good as November Rain.

Shackler's Revenge is a more high-tech Perfect Crime.

Prostitute is a lot better than Rocket Queen.

Etc

CD would be legendary only for Maddie. And with all the great songs, it's just incredibly overlooked.

you have terrible taste in music, imo

Edited January 4, 2014 by Crash Diet

[liers]

No.

I wont say there aren't songs that could've became legendary. There are. But I think that with the amount of recording axl did, and the amount of years it took, it wouldn't have gone over well releasing only 10 songs.

Axl was talking in 1999 about having over 50 songs done. In 2002 he talked about the final release of CD having over 20 songs. I think if he came out at any point after the 1999 interview and only released 10 songs, it would've been a joke.

Madagascar is a lot better than Estranged.

Cather In The Rye is a lot better than Yesterdays.

There Was A Time is better than Breakdown.

Sorry is better than Don't Cry.

Street of Dreams is just as good as November Rain.

Shackler's Revenge is a more high-tech Perfect Crime.

Prostitute is a lot better than Rocket Queen.

Etc

CD would be legendary only for Maddie. And with all the great songs, it's just incredibly overlooked.

you have terrible taste in music, imo

You're comparing Sorry to Don't Cry???

That would be like saying a nice grilled steak tastes better than kitty litter.

Edited January 4, 2014 by liers

[wasted]

I could sort of see taking off Shackler's, ITW, Scraped, Sorry and making them a basis of another album.

Then you have

side 1

Chi Dem

Better

SOD

TWAT

Catcher

Side 2

Riad

IRS

Madagascar

TIL

Prostitute

This is kind of a more focused cuter album.

In my playlist those first 10 songs flow really well and it all makes sense, then there's ITW, Shackler's, Sorry and go out on Scraped is awesome. But I really feel like they came from CD II.

Edited January 4, 2014 by wasted

[Bono]

Madagascar is a lot better than Estranged.

Cather In The Rye is a lot better than Yesterdays.

There Was A Time is better than Breakdown.

Sorry is better than Don't Cry.

Street of Dreams is just as good as November Rain.

Shackler's Revenge is a more high-tech Perfect Crime.

Prostitute is a lot better than Rocket Queen.

Etc

CD would be legendary only for Maddie. And with all the great songs, it's just incredibly overlooked.

What the fuck is wrong with this world? Seriously.

[Rovim]

Madagascar is a lot better than Estranged.

Cather In The Rye is a lot better than Yesterdays.

There Was A Time is better than Breakdown.

Sorry is better than Don't Cry.

Street of Dreams is just as good as November Rain.

Shackler's Revenge is a more high-tech Perfect Crime.

Prostitute is a lot better than Rocket Queen.

Etc

CD would be legendary only for Maddie. And with all the great songs, it's just incredibly overlooked.

What the fuck is wrong with this world? Seriously.

Yeah, it's a disgrace. To think someone can have different taste then you or a different opinion.

And on something as exact and objective as music, from all things.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Rovim

[Bono]

Madagascar is a lot better than Estranged.

Cather In The Rye is a lot better than Yesterdays.

There Was A Time is better than Breakdown.

Sorry is better than Don't Cry.

Street of Dreams is just as good as November Rain.

Shackler's Revenge is a more high-tech Perfect Crime.

Prostitute is a lot better than Rocket Queen.

Etc

CD would be legendary only for Maddie. And with all the great songs, it's just incredibly overlooked.

What the fuck is wrong with this world? Seriously.

Yeah, it's a disgrace. To think someone can have different taste then you or a different opinion.

And on something as exact and objective as music, from all things.

STFU. Anyone who makes that kind of list and says those songs are better than the ones mentioned isn't being honest. Its blatant trolling. Madagascar way better than Estranged? Street of Dreams just as good as November Rain? Prostitute a lot better than Rocket Queen? Yeah get stuffed.

[Steelfin]

Any album with ITW on it will never be close to the best album of all time.

I agree with that, I don't get why some people love it. But I think an interview years back he said u would like some tracks and not others, I guess that's true as I cant stand the blues n ITW but for some its their favorite songs. The song Scrapped sounds like its a schizo battle with 2 different emotions, at first I didn't get it, but then I did (or at least I interpreted it my own way) and I love it. Rhiad is also awesome, there are a few parts which are mind boggilingly brilliant, and they could have been stretched more or used as brdiges or choruses, yet for me that's the story of the album, you hear a part of a song for 4 seconds and it doesn't repeat and its the best part of the track, especially in Catcher and the outro to sorry. Same is true of IRS. Prostitute is my favorite GNR song of all time. I think for an album to become a classic, it has to have outstanding tracks from start to finish and CD doesn't, its also not that coherent. I hate the studio version of TIL but the live version filmed on a phone, is the most powerful thing he has done.

Its all just our opinions and we can skip the tracks we don't like, one thing is for sure none of us could write this. Man its fun to discuss it and read the posts, even when we all disagree!

Its a bit like watching a football game, we critise about the managers tactics and substitutins cause we think we can do it better, but in reality we cant otherwise we would be doing it! I don't care if GNR rule the world again, I want to enjoy some more music, fingers crossed for 2014!

[Steelfin]

I think it has good flow like it is. There's a momentum to each side. Especially on vinyl you notice how each side builds to a climax.

I have the CD version, is there a notable difference? I know that Appetite, Lies & Illusions sounded better on record, but I think they were made for record first and CD second. Would like to hear on Vinyl

[Steelfin]

I'd leae off:

Shackler's

Scraped

Sorry

TIL

Then replace the other track by earlier versions of them. Still no chance of it being a hit though. Unless it'd have been released in 2000/2001.

I love all of the tracks, but if I had to pick some to leave off it would probably be Scared and Riad. They seem to get less of a response then other songs to.

I definitely disagree with taking This I Love off, though. Other than Better, I'd say This I Love gets the most response during live performances, surprisingly.

Totally agree about TIL. For some reason the recording or studio performance doesn't capture the song. I prefer to watch it on you tube filmed on a mobile. I think live its astonishing but on record terrible. christ almighty its like watching Elvis doing American Trilogy.

This is my most watched GNR vid on youtube!

[Mr. Dude]

I think it has good flow like it is. There's a momentum to each side. Especially on vinyl you notice how each side builds to a climax.

I have the CD version, is there a notable difference? I know that Appetite, Lies & Illusions sounded better on record, but I think they were made for record first and CD second. Would like to hear on Vinyl

Well to me, everything sounds better on vinyl. Maybe its just the ritual. I was talking more of the way each side begins and ends.

The Illusions was definitely made for CD first, vinyl 2nd. Lies maybe more so vinyl (or cassette).

[Mr. Dude]

Any album with ITW on it will never be close to the best album of all time.

I agree with that, I don't get why some people love it. But I think an interview years back he said u would like some tracks and not others, I guess that's true as I cant stand the blues n ITW but for some its their favorite songs. The song Scrapped sounds like its a schizo battle with 2 different emotions, at first I didn't get it, but then I did (or at least I interpreted it my own way) and I love it. Rhiad is also awesome, there are a few parts which are mind boggilingly brilliant, and they could have been stretched more or used as brdiges or choruses, yet for me that's the story of the album, you hear a part of a song for 4 seconds and it doesn't repeat and its the best part of the track, especially in Catcher and the outro to sorry. Same is true of IRS. Prostitute is my favorite GNR song of all time. I think for an album to become a classic, it has to have outstanding tracks from start to finish and CD doesn't, its also not that coherent. I hate the studio version of TIL but the live version filmed on a phone, is the most powerful thing he has done.

Its all just our opinions and we can skip the tracks we don't like, one thing is for sure none of us could write this. Man its fun to discuss it and read the posts, even when we all disagree!

Its a bit like watching a football game, we critise about the managers tactics and substitutins cause we think we can do it better, but in reality we cant otherwise we would be doing it! I don't care if GNR rule the world again, I want to enjoy some more music, fingers crossed for 2014!

See, I agree with some of that, but I think it is strong start to finish. To me, there's no filler. I always listen to it as a whole whereas with AFD I think the 1st half is considerably stronger than the 2nd. There's a smattering of songs on the Illusions that I usually skip over as well. I think CD is maybe the most coherent GNR album- far more so than the Illusions imo.

[Steelfin]

See, I agree with some of that, but I think it is strong start to finish. To me, there's no filler. I always listen to it as a whole whereas with AFD I think the 1st half is considerably stronger than the 2nd. There's a smattering of songs on the Illusions that I usually skip over as well. I think CD is maybe the most coherent GNR album- far more so than the Illusions imo.

You got soemthing there about the Illusions, and I reckon if it had been 12 tracks it would have topped Appeitite.

[Rovim]

Madagascar is a lot better than Estranged.

Cather In The Rye is a lot better than Yesterdays.

There Was A Time is better than Breakdown.

Sorry is better than Don't Cry.

Street of Dreams is just as good as November Rain.

Shackler's Revenge is a more high-tech Perfect Crime.

Prostitute is a lot better than Rocket Queen.

Etc

CD would be legendary only for Maddie. And with all the great songs, it's just incredibly overlooked.

What the fuck is wrong with this world? Seriously.

Yeah, it's a disgrace. To think someone can have different taste then you or a different opinion.

And on something as exact and objective as music, from all things.

STFU. Anyone who makes that kind of list and says those songs are better than the ones mentioned isn't being honest. Its blatant trolling. Madagascar way better than Estranged? Street of Dreams just as good as November Rain? Prostitute a lot better than Rocket Queen? Yeah get stuffed.

No need for insults. It's not relevant how wrong you think Fin is. You don't know that he's trolling. The fact that it's so impossible in your mind that he'll prefer those songs over the classic songs and think they're better proves my point.

I prefer Catcher over Yesterdays. I think it's a better song. So fucking what.

[Fin]

My mistake, slight change of mind. Replacing TWAT with IRS.

IRS-SOD clearly work better together than TWAT-SOD.

1. CD, 2. Catcher, 3.Maddie, 4. Shackler's, 5.Sorry, *6. IRS*, 7.Street of Dreams, 8. If the World, 9.Better, 10.Prostitute

Now, the sequence is perfect, sorry for the inconvenience.

[Fin]

Leaving out songs from an original playlist doesn't mean they're bad by any means. NR and especially Coma are amazing epics, but I rarely listen to them when listening to other UYI I songs.

I see them as kind of stand alone tracks. An album or EP of their own, so to speak.

[Conor]

Of course not. The songs simply aren't good enough, and getting rid of four of them just leads to even more criticism in terms of the number of songs provided to us after fourteen years. It's obvious it's simply not good enough, and for some reason a lot of you feel the need to rationalise that. You needn't look any further than people suggesting it'd be "the best album ever" if it was a double album, and others suggesting it'd be "the best album ever" if it was shorter.

It was alright. It wasn't great, it wasn't bad. It'd probably have turned out better if it wasn't such a cut n' paste clusterfuck, but changing the length of the album for no real reason? Nah.