DieselDaisy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) It is the nature of the beast - partisanship politics: Axl cupcakes will say something extreme to get a reaction like ''Slash has never written a decent note since gnr'' (not true), to which, Slash cupcakes will reply ''Chinese Democracy is the worst piece of shit ever recorded'' (not true), to which, Axl cupcakes will reply ''Chinese Democracy is a masterpiece and GN'R's greatest album'' (not true) etc etc. And it just goes on and on like this, in a circle! Guns N’ Roses’ fanbase is completely divided really, the few moderates tending to get drowned out. I suppose it is all connected back to the acrimonious split between Axl and Slash in the mid-1990s. Each cupcake is determined to defend their guy, whether he be Axl and Slash, so they adopt an extreme stance to lambaste the other camp's guy. I have to say that Axl fans are the worst; I suppose when your guy does not release stuff there isn't much to do on forums but sling some abuse at Slash. Edited January 9, 2014 by DieselDaisy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Seriously, do half of you even think for yourselves?-Chinese Democracy is either a piece of shit or a masterpiece- Axl is 100% responsible for the old lineup splitting, or it's Slash's fault-Chinese Democracy was either a commercial failure or a grand success- etcWhy is there no kind of middle ground with so many GNR forum-goers? It's a crazy way of thinking.Chinese Democracy is at least an alright album.Old GNR broke up mostly because of creative differences.Chinese Democracy sold quite well but didn't reach expectations.That is well reasoned, logical, and sensible....and there's no place for that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I have to say that Axl fans are the worst; I suppose when your guy does not release stuff there isn't much to do on forums but sling some abuse at Slash.You know, I used to think that because Axl fanatics ('worshipers' to quote a classic) are by and large kind of stupid but I've changed my mind recently because at least they bring some positivity while the hardcores on the other side are generally a bunch of asses obviously hanging out here with the sole purpose of acting like asses. So Axl fans sling abuse at Slash while Slash fans sling abuse at Axl fans which, the way I see it, does a lot more damage to the atmosphere here.On the other hand, Wasted makes a good point:I think the most successful forums are built on communities that form around a controversial, unsolveable issue.Perhaps damaging the atmosphere in the long run is good for the forum. There's a reason why other GNR forums with less controversy are dead while this one is thriving. And even other, much more active, bands have far less active internet communities. It's the conflict that brings people here, keeps them around and generates activity. While most of the time there really isn't anything to discuss people stick around arguing useless shit. If they didn't then when something important happened there would be nobody here to talk about it. Edited January 9, 2014 by GivenToFly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) In my opinion, Chinese Democracy is an awful record. Worst I have listened to in years. I do have a middle opinion regarding real Guns break up. I don't blame one person, I don't even blame all of them. I simply think that Guns had to die - one way or another.See, I don't understand this. For the life of me I cannot understand it. In perspective how is it that awful? Compare it with some of the shit that's played out there, I don't understand how one can dislike it that much. Compared with the Black Eyed Peases and Nicky Minajes of the world and with all the shit whose names I don't know and all the awful entire genres like glam rap and dubstep and anything-core Chinese Democracy is seriously the worst? Really?Likewise, if you enjoyed the Illusions, particularly the epic numbers then there's absolutely no reason that you shouldn't like at least some of the CD material. TWAT, SOD, TIL, Catcher, etc are clearly in the same vein, a continuation, a modest evolutionary variant of the epic songs from the Illusions. I understand that not everyone thinks it's a grand masterpiece, but to say it has no value (as a GNR fan) seems dishonest to me. Edited January 9, 2014 by Mr. Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TombRaider Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Seriously, do half of you even think for yourselves?-Chinese Democracy is either a piece of shit or a masterpiece- Axl is 100% responsible for the old lineup splitting, or it's Slash's fault-Chinese Democracy was either a commercial failure or a grand success- etcWhy is there no kind of middle ground with so many GNR forum-goers? It's a crazy way of thinking.Chinese Democracy is at least an alright album.Old GNR broke up mostly because of creative differences.Chinese Democracy sold quite well but didn't reach expectations.Because we're bipolar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't think it has no value. I do think it has very little value. There are a few parts to a few songs that I like. But there isn't one song in the album that I enjoy all the way through. That's not dishonest. That's just my taste. And I'm not even close to alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't think it has no value. I do think it has very little value. There are a few parts to a few songs that I like. But there isn't one song in the album that I enjoy all the way through. That's not dishonest. That's just my taste. And I'm not even close to alone.You're not alone.... there are a lot of dishonest people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't think it has no value. I do think it has very little value. There are a few parts to a few songs that I like. But there isn't one song in the album that I enjoy all the way through. That's not dishonest. That's just my taste. And I'm not even close to alone.You're not alone.... there are a lot of dishonest people.You're a fucking idiot, and it won't be too soon when your ass gets banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I have to say that Axl fans are the worst; I suppose when your guy does not release stuff there isn't much to do on forums but sling some abuse at Slash.You know, I used to think that because Axl fanatics ('worshipers' to quote a classic) are by and large kind of stupid but I've changed my mind recently because at least they bring some positivity while the hardcores on the other side are generally a bunch of asses obviously hanging out here with the sole purpose of acting like asses. So Axl fans sling abuse at Slash while Slash fans sling abuse at Axl fans which, the way I see it, does a lot more damage to the atmosphere here.In their defence, the Axl fans are at least on a board which is dedicated to a band featuring W. Axl Rose. (Even when there was a separate old band board, you still had the Slash fans turning up on Newband topics.) But then Slash fans will argue that ''there is no such thing as Guns N' Roses and there never has been such a thing as Guns N' Roses since 1996''! I do feel that Axl fans have become worse since the dexter chats and the ''cancer'' comment. That comment was rather like, the Pope excommunicating Elizabeth I and therefore forcing English Catholics to pick sides.It is all about defending your guy.Regarding Chinese Democracy, the term 'mixed bag' seems designed for that album. There are three great songs on there (Better, TWAT, The Blues), a few decent songs (IRS, Sorry, Madagascar) and some awful songs (Title track, Scraped, Shacklers Revenge). It also lacks coherence and is over-produced. Axl's, four-five guitarist per song policy, could not be more misconceived. Edited January 9, 2014 by DieselDaisy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbhutto Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Fo reals. CD has its issues but there's still some great & solid material on there and I respect that Axl was still trying to push GnR into the future instead of taking any number of easier routes that he could've taken. Sure, it may have went up in flames but I can respect that. I think CD will gain traction as the years pass though. Watching CD come and go was basically watching the last of the larger-than-life, all-unifying titans of music die off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Fo reals. CD has its issues but there's still some great & solid material on there and I respect that Axl was still trying to push GnR into the future instead of taking any number of easier routes that he could've taken. Sure, it may have went up in flames but I can respect that. I think CD will gain traction as the years pass though. Watching CD come and go was basically watching the last of the larger-than-life, all-unifying titans of music die off.Yes, the last of its kind, the end of the album format as a viable artistic/commercial hyrid commodity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guns n' Swedes Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Cause there are many people in here who doesn't have the mental capacity to see the grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlspants Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 If you don't like Chinese Democracy as an album and you don't think Axl can sing anymore...what you doing here? Yes of course you have a right to be here and say what you want but don't you have anything better to do with your life?Thats just something I wonder when I read the same people posting the same negative comments over and over again, like gee whiz can't you get a hobby or something?I don't expect people to all agree and its great to debate but to go on and on, in some cases thousands of times about the same thing regardless of the topic is mundane. They must have very little say in the mechanics of their own lives over in the real world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 In my opinion, Chinese Democracy is an awful record. Worst I have listened to in years. I do have a middle opinion regarding real Guns break up. I don't blame one person, I don't even blame all of them. I simply think that Guns had to die - one way or another.Maybe old Guns had to die to save the people in it. <philosophical> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Given the current state of rock music (2000 on ward) I feel that CD is the best "rock" album of the 21st century. With Van Halen's ADKOT right behind it. But these claims are more of an inditment agaisnt the current state of rock than a showcase for two great albums. Honestly if both albums were released in the 90's they may have made my top 30 (maybe). If both were released in the 80's, top 50. 70's they may not make my top 100. But given the state of rock music, both albums stand head and shoulders above all other "rock" albums. CD's biggest problem (other than over production) was choices in singles. Better should have been the first single, then twat 2nd, followed by sorry. Radio pretty much gave up after the song CD didn't catch on. I'm not saying it's a bad song, but would you release right next door to hell as UYI1's first single? no. I also feel that This I love should have been pushed more. I know some people hate that song, but its the most classic guns sounding thing on the album, it should have been a B side to one of the singles. The general public needed to hear guns n roses to embrace that album, which classic guns is not heard on cd or better, you have to dig farther on the album. This is where VH scored points, their 2nd single was She's the woman. That song just screams classic van halen. As a whole CD is better imo, but I have to give VH credit, they had one classic VH tune on their album. We all wanted a ycbm type rocker and CD did not deliver that. But despite that, had the other classic sounding songs been pushed harder, the results would of been a little more pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardNixon Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 A Different Kind of Truth is an amazing fucking album. I wish that they would release a follow-up ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppetiteForGnR Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Keep in mind this is the Internet, discussions tend be become polarized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Best 'rock' album of the 21st century? Neil Young - Psychedelic Pill. Easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) In my opinion, Chinese Democracy is an awful record. Worst I have listened to in years. I do have a middle opinion regarding real Guns break up. I don't blame one person, I don't even blame all of them. I simply think that Guns had to die - one way or another.See, I don't understand this. For the life of me I cannot understand it. In perspective how is it that awful? Compare it with some of the shit that's played out there, I don't understand how one can dislike it that much. Compared with the Black Eyed Peases and Nicky Minajes of the world and with all the shit whose names I don't know and all the awful entire genres like glam rap and dubstep and anything-core Chinese Democracy is seriously the worst? Really?I know "shit" is being played out there but I'm not paying attention to that "shit", I only listen to what I think I will like and Axl Rose was my favorite singer for years. That doesn't change the fact that Chinese Democracy is an awful record for me - not for the world. All of those who think CD is a masterpiece, I don't see myself trying to change or question their opinions. OP asked "why everyone's opinions..", and I gave my opinion, that is 100% honest and accurate to what I felt when I finished listening to the record. Very awful. Edited January 9, 2014 by Nosaj Thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cbgnr666 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 .I prefer at this point in life to listen to CD than the old stuff with the exception of a few songs from UYI albums. I do prefer Axl's sound on the illusions,,while Appetite is concert material only for me,I never listen to it.Same with Lies and Spagetti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) In my opinion, Chinese Democracy is an awful record. Worst I have listened to in years. I do have a middle opinion regarding real Guns break up. I don't blame one person, I don't even blame all of them. I simply think that Guns had to die - one way or another.Maybe old Guns had to die to save the people in it. <philosophical>Good way to put it.Honestly, Slash and Axl couldn't work together anymore. Slash quit Guns and Axl dissolved Guns. I don't see why it should be one person's fault. Edited January 9, 2014 by Nosaj Thing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I have to say that Axl fans are the worst; I suppose when your guy does not release stuff there isn't much to do on forums but sling some abuse at Slash.You know, I used to think that because Axl fanatics ('worshipers' to quote a classic) are by and large kind of stupid but I've changed my mind recently because at least they bring some positivity while the hardcores on the other side are generally a bunch of asses obviously hanging out here with the sole purpose of acting like asses. So Axl fans sling abuse at Slash while Slash fans sling abuse at Axl fans which, the way I see it, does a lot more damage to the atmosphere here.On the other hand, Wasted makes a good point:I think the most successful forums are built on communities that form around a controversial, unsolveable issue.Perhaps damaging the atmosphere in the long run is good for the forum. There's a reason why other GNR forums with less controversy are dead while this one is thriving. And even other, much more active, bands have far less active internet communities. It's the conflict that brings people here, keeps them around and generates activity. While most of the time there really isn't anything to discuss people stick around arguing useless shit. If they didn't then when something important happened there would be nobody here to talk about it.its not just music. Unsolved murder cases also draw a community. but its subjective areas which flourish bcos it can last forever. I think its a form of entertainment which the posters accept but from the outside people looking in would think these crazy fucks. If you go to the low carb diet forums for example theres no us vs them thing. And its rubbish. People post and say i found a low carb sausage. Two people comment and thank them and the thread dies. And actually a low carb sausage is fucking miracle but it doesnt run to 100 pages with people threating to put money in escrow to prove that CD didnt suck. Edited January 9, 2014 by wasted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 .I prefer at this point in life to listen to CD than the old stuff with the exception of a few songs from UYI albums. I do prefer Axl's sound on the illusions,,while Appetite is concert material only for me,I never listen to it.Same with Lies and Spagetti.CD has an addictive quality, whereas AFD and UYI are more about a release. The Drums on CD are awesome. CD reminds me of Angel Dust, it is a little synthetic or airless but after a while you get used to it, then its just this techno rollercoaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The drums on CD are programmed. They aren't even a live track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 .I prefer at this point in life to listen to CD than the old stuff with the exception of a few songs from UYI albums. I do prefer Axl's sound on the illusions,,while Appetite is concert material only for me,I never listen to it.Same with Lies and Spagetti.For me over time it is actually the opposite. After spending time with CD since its release I would say that nowadays Appetite and the Illusions are what I play the most with Lies not that far behind. CD has been pretty much relegated to an album I will spin on occasion while the older material I can play all the time and not get tired of hearing them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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