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Why are everyone's opinions so black or white here?


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Here's a lot of the difference I see from posters.

Many of us spent years BEFORE the album came out hearing about 'big guns' and etc. when songs like The Blues were known. Expectations were built to big heights as if there were some really awesome songs to come since The Blues that we heard live in 02 wasn't too shabby. Not too shabby for a live version, that is.

Fast forward to the album and The Blues sounds crappier(imo) and the 'big guns' everyone was waiting for was just a jumbled mess(the epics imo) or more crybaby ballads.

It's not that it's a horrible album. I personally can't stand it. I can't listen to it. It doesn't have one bit of the appeal real GNR songs have. IMHO, it's one step above a polished turd. 14 million worth of polish.

On the flip side, there are quite a bit of fanboys that jumped on the train when CD came out. They have no idea of what it was like leading up to the album with the expectations being pumped up in rare interviews. It seems like it's an Axl fanboy's delight for the most part. They say you have to listen to it in it's entirety like 10 times before you can judge it's quality. Well, all I'll say to that is if you meet a chic that is absolutely pathetic in bed, doing it 10 more times probably isn't going to change much. A dud is a dud is a dud is a dud.

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Seriously, do half of you even think for yourselves?

-Chinese Democracy is either a piece of shit or a masterpiece

- Axl is 100% responsible for the old lineup splitting, or it's Slash's fault

-Chinese Democracy was either a commercial failure or a grand success

- etc

Why is there no kind of middle ground with so many GNR forum-goers? It's a crazy way of thinking.

Chinese Democracy is at least an alright album.

Old GNR broke up mostly because of creative differences.

Chinese Democracy sold quite well but didn't reach expectations.

I think it's because over the years fans have gotten more and more divided, which isn't helped by the band's lack of output. So the Axl supporters have become used to being more and more defensive, and the Axl haters have become more and more vocal. Given the context of the situation, how the old band fell apart, etc., it's essentially like parents getting divorced and the kids who stayed with the mom become defensive of the mom, and the kids that stayed with the dad become defensive of the dad. It's not a healthy situation.

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Axl fans are always on the backfoot, always on the defensive, because their guy is hated by the media, a lot of general rock fans and even a few Guns N’ Roses fans. Also, the whole nugnr experiment is widely considered to be a dismal failure. So how do Axl fans deal with this? They over-compensate in saying things like, ‘’Democracy is a masterpiece and GN’R's greatest album’', and, ‘’Ashba is better than Slash’’. It is a defensive tactic.

They are going to be a bit screwed-up in the head, supporting a guy who does not release anything.

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Fact is, there are probably only 2-3 people whose views are that "black and white," and then there are a few more people who like to egg those 2-3 on, and then there is a bunch of people who get sucked in and riled up cuz threads tilt toward retard. Have a reasonable conversation with people and you'll find that almost all of them have reasonable opinions, even if you disagree with them.

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I don't think it was just Axl that broke up gnr. It wasn't ALL his fault. But he certainly was the most responsible.

CD was a failure. But I think it had 3 solid songs and 1 that was ok. It certainly wasn't the worst album ever created, but it was light years from being the best.

Actually, axl did quit the original partnership that was gnr and dissolved that entity and slash and duff didn't want to rejoin the new entity axl created as guns n roses because of the terms of their agreements - so tecnically he did break up guns n roses -

I have to say that Axl fans are the worst; I suppose when your guy does not release stuff there isn't much to do on forums but sling some abuse at Slash.

You know, I used to think that because Axl fanatics ('worshipers' to quote a classic) are by and large kind of stupid but I've changed my mind recently because at least they bring some positivity while the hardcores on the other side are generally a bunch of asses obviously hanging out here with the sole purpose of acting like asses. So Axl fans sling abuse at Slash while Slash fans sling abuse at Axl fans which, the way I see it, does a lot more damage to the atmosphere here.

On the other hand, Wasted makes a good point:

I think the most successful forums are built on communities that form around a controversial, unsolveable issue.

Perhaps damaging the atmosphere in the long run is good for the forum. There's a reason why other GNR forums with less controversy are dead while this one is thriving. And even other, much more active, bands have far less active internet communities. It's the conflict that brings people here, keeps them around and generates activity. While most of the time there really isn't anything to discuss people stick around arguing useless shit. If they didn't then when something important happened there would be nobody here to talk about it.
its not just music. Unsolved murder cases also draw a community. but its subjective areas which flourish bcos it can last forever. I think its a form of entertainment which the posters accept but from the outside people looking in would think these crazy fucks. If you go to the low carb diet forums for example theres no us vs them thing. And its rubbish. People post and say i found a low carb sausage. Two people comment and thank them and the thread dies. And actually a low carb sausage is fucking miracle but it doesnt run to 100 pages with people threating to put money in escrow to prove that CD didnt suck.

This forum occupies my time commuting to and from NYC - NJ; while I'm having a smoke at work, or while I'm on the shitter

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Fact is, there are probably only 2-3 people whose views are that "black and white," and then there are a few more people who like to egg those 2-3 on, and then there is a bunch of people who get sucked in and riled up cuz threads tilt toward retard. Have a reasonable conversation with people and you'll find that almost all of them have reasonable opinions, even if you disagree with them.

That is exactly it.

I think the majority of us would just have normal conversations and debates if people didn't take extreme sides to some issues.

A reasonable debate will be happening and then somebody will throw in "Ya, but DJ is 100 times better than Slash" and somebody else will respond "well that drug addict junkie sucks and he sucks now, so Axl is lucky to have DJ instead of Slash"...................and then, like Mags said, the fight starts.

Most of us come here to chat. But a few people seem to come here specifically to piss people off or to start arguments. And then people hold grudges and carry them from topic to topic, so they go into a new topic with a chip on the shoulder and they just want to attack their enemy instead of just chatting about GnR. Crazy cycle.

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Here's a lot of the difference I see from posters.

Many of us spent years BEFORE the album came out hearing about 'big guns' and etc. when songs like The Blues were known. Expectations were built to big heights as if there were some really awesome songs to come since The Blues that we heard live in 02 wasn't too shabby. Not too shabby for a live version, that is.

Fast forward to the album and The Blues sounds crappier(imo) and the 'big guns' everyone was waiting for was just a jumbled mess(the epics imo) or more crybaby ballads.

It's not that it's a horrible album. I personally can't stand it. I can't listen to it. It doesn't have one bit of the appeal real GNR songs have. IMHO, it's one step above a polished turd. 14 million worth of polish.

On the flip side, there are quite a bit of fanboys that jumped on the train when CD came out. They have no idea of what it was like leading up to the album with the expectations being pumped up in rare interviews. It seems like it's an Axl fanboy's delight for the most part. They say you have to listen to it in it's entirety like 10 times before you can judge it's quality. Well, all I'll say to that is if you meet a chic that is absolutely pathetic in bed, doing it 10 more times probably isn't going to change much. A dud is a dud is a dud is a dud.

I think that is true. The versions of the album were probably wild enough. Keeping up with some of trends of the 00s maybe added another layer which took it too far. I like bands like Avenged, Evanescence, My Chemical Romance, BFMV so that glossy twilight mall metal doest phase me much. Even the DJ Shadow or UNKLE production Im used to. The fact that it isnt UYI is plus after 20 years.

Only thing that bothers me a bit is that element where it seems about the old band. I miss the Izzy. I guess theres the old stuff for that. Or Izzy solo.

I just dont have a problem with the music I guess and cant find a reason not to like it.

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It's not that people's opinions are "so black or white," it's that many posters purposely try to mischaracterize other posters' viewpoints. Everyone thinks I'm this big Slash hater. They ignore all the times I've said his sound and style was an integral part of old GnR's sound. They ignore all the times I've said his right-handed picking technique is one of the core elements of GnR's classic songs' sound. Instead, they wage this bizarre propaganda war ("OMG WHY U HATE SLASH SO MUCH?!" or "YOU WORSHIPPER, YOU'RE A WORSHIPPING WORSHIPPER!" or "YOUR WORSHIPPING IS PAGAN IDOLATRY"(notice though, these "worshipper" accusers always seem to look the other way when people are an auto-pilot fighting "the good fight" for Slash on the internet by being mean-spirited, shit-talking assholes who say horrid shit about Axl. But nooo, make one crack about Slash, and they freak out and rant and rave)).

These rabid anti-nu-Guns brigadiers just don't seem to *want* to understand that I just care more about Steven's sound in the band. Everyone has their favorite. To me, if I could have either Slash or Steven back in the band, I'd pick Steven. It's that simple. It doesn't mean I hate Slash. I just goof on Slash the same way people goof on Axl. Slash is pudgy and takes his shirt off- that should be fair game, right? He wears his top hat everywhere, but claims to be distancing himself from GnR. People talk shit about Axl's voice, but apparently Slash made a brilliant move in making Myles his singer. Gimme a fuckin break. Myles is the DJ of Slash's band. Anyway, I digress.

Those who have gotten to know me, know that I'm more nuanced than I'm given credit for. But people don't want shades of grey, they want drama! The difference between me and them is that I'm just more accepting of reality. Axl ain't putting the band back together. Time to get over it and stop being delusional about reunion possibilities.

Looooong before it became en vogue for some people to become professional drama queens and crying about what they disapprove of in the band, I had a strong dislike for Matt's drumkit sound on the UYIs. I felt like GnR had been hollowed out. Even as kid, I noticed it right away. Popcorn's snare drum tuning was gone. His cowbell was gone. His groove was gone. In his place, was this sterilized generic timekeeper who spammed the "November Rain drum fill" in almost every song. It took a long time to warm up to Matt.

Edited by metaforcesaber
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The drums on CD are programmed. They aren't even a live track.

Why does that matter? One of the annoyances on UYI is the generic plodding on every track, might as well be robot. AFD just sound like are recorded in a garage. If you listen to drums its like boy they are shitty sounding. But youre not meant to listen to them. CD is ear candy, sound fetish album.
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Fact is, there are probably only 2-3 people whose views are that "black and white," and then there are a few more people who like to egg those 2-3 on, and then there is a bunch of people who get sucked in and riled up cuz threads tilt toward retard. Have a reasonable conversation with people and you'll find that almost all of them have reasonable opinions, even if you disagree with them.

That is exactly it.

I think the majority of us would just have normal conversations and debates if people didn't take extreme sides to some issues.

A reasonable debate will be happening and then somebody will throw in "Ya, but DJ is 100 times better than Slash" and somebody else will respond "well that drug addict junkie sucks and he sucks now, so Axl is lucky to have DJ instead of Slash"...................and then, like Mags said, the fight starts.

Most of us come here to chat. But a few people seem to come here specifically to piss people off or to start arguments. And then people hold grudges and carry them from topic to topic, so they go into a new topic with a chip on the shoulder and they just want to attack their enemy instead of just chatting about GnR. Crazy cycle.

Pretty much sums it up.

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People talk shit about Axl's voice, but apparently Slash made a brilliant move in making Myles his singer. Gimme a fuckin break. Myles is the DJ of Slash's band. Anyway, I digress.

I completely agree with this.

The sad part is the best is behind us, for both Slash and Axl. It makes me sad for both of them. Don't get me wrong they are both capable of great music individually, but together they were perfect. It's depressing as a gnr fan really.

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Fact is, there are probably only 2-3 people whose views are that "black and white," and then there are a few more people who like to egg those 2-3 on, and then there is a bunch of people who get sucked in and riled up cuz threads tilt toward retard. Have a reasonable conversation with people and you'll find that almost all of them have reasonable opinions, even if you disagree with them.

That is exactly it.

I think the majority of us would just have normal conversations and debates if people didn't take extreme sides to some issues.

A reasonable debate will be happening and then somebody will throw in "Ya, but DJ is 100 times better than Slash" and somebody else will respond "well that drug addict junkie sucks and he sucks now, so Axl is lucky to have DJ instead of Slash"...................and then, like Mags said, the fight starts.

Most of us come here to chat. But a few people seem to come here specifically to piss people off or to start arguments. And then people hold grudges and carry them from topic to topic, so they go into a new topic with a chip on the shoulder and they just want to attack their enemy instead of just chatting about GnR. Crazy cycle.

Very true. The lunatics are just a few and most of them are banned anyways.

It's funny though, because the remaining lunatics label you as a Slash cock-sucking fan when you have stated that you don't like Slash post-Gn'R work. :shrugs:

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I respectfully disagree with Myles being the "DJ" of Slash's band. If anything, I'd say he's the Bumblefoot. Say what you want about Myles's voice, but he is a technically talented singer. DJ on the other hand is a mediocre guitarist technically speaking.

Second, Myles isn't using Slash as a platform to promote his other endeavors the way DJ is using Axl to promote his Ashba Swag. Seriously putting every Guns album on his website (albums he didn't even play one note on) that lead directly to the Ashba Swag Store when you click them. And to top it all of, those albums are no where to be found on his actual online store.

I know I'm coming off as a "Slash apologist" by saying this (even though I don't mean to be), butI think the top hat look is something that always belonged to Slash's persona, not GNR's. He milks it now though, I'll give you that. But it hasn't really much to do with clinging on to his GNR days. I mean, look at his set lists nowadays. The majority of it is his post GNR-heyday material. I'd say that's a big stride moving past Guns, wouldn't you? :shrugs:

Edited by Bobbo
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Well, it was great, it could have never happened. Personally think Axl has done a great job of doing the Latter GNR material. And he can do like Stones like show. I can see why those guys didnt want to do that. I think Guns continuing could have been like a AIC in the end. Maybe with a death in the band.

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People talk shit about Axl's voice, but apparently Slash made a brilliant move in making Myles his singer. Gimme a fuckin break. Myles is the DJ of Slash's band. Anyway, I digress.

I completely agree with this.

The sad part is the best is behind us, for both Slash and Axl. It makes me sad for both of them. Don't get me wrong they are both capable of great music individually, but together they were perfect. It's depressing as a gnr fan really.

Somewhere in the darkness, you must look up to the light. All the ex-gnr alumni are making music: music that has a piece of GnR it. Slash owns a piece of the GnR name. He doesn't need a piece of paper. People get hung up on the paper, but that's a tangent. I think all former members have something to offer musically. Dude no bullshit, "Fall to Pieces" touched me. That song has a great stark and profound sound. I dig Izzy's stuff and Adler's. There's a little GnR magic in every one of their endeavors.

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I think no matter what you're gonna do, the hardcore fan base is always going to be divided. That's why I feel for Subs and HV. There's just no way you're gonna have Utopia around these parts, ever.

Some think Axl had every right to use the name without any of the others, others will always be baffled that he had the audacity. Some will love his nu direction, others are gonna (genuinely) hate it. Some are amused by what Axl has done, others are shocked in the same way as seeing a plane crash. Some are here for love and dedication for the nu band, some are here for their love and dedication of the old band. Then you have the few neutral people that feel like they awkwardly have to pick sides. "You're either with us or against us".

As ridiculous as it sounds, it's just the way things became over the years. It's just a huge clusterfuck that will never change. The damage is done and is beyond repair. Tis a shame really.

Edited by Bobbo
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Shut up, pick a side and quit whining about it.

A maniqueist point of view is a bad option to explain a series of facts that lead to an end. Slash said a lot lies, so do Axl. Slash did a lot of shit (Snakepit), so do Axl (Rhiad, Scraped, If the World). Both of them moved on in some kind of way and don't seem to be positive about a reunion. Everybody had some kind of participation in what happened, that's undeniable. Being maniqueist, led you getting blind to lots of things that happened.

Seriously, do half of you even think for yourselves?

-Chinese Democracy is either a piece of shit or a masterpiece

- Axl is 100% responsible for the old lineup splitting, or it's Slash's fault

-Chinese Democracy was either a commercial failure or a grand success

- etc

Why is there no kind of middle ground with so many GNR forum-goers? It's a crazy way of thinking.

Chinese Democracy is at least an alright album.

Old GNR broke up mostly because of creative differences.

Chinese Democracy sold quite well but didn't reach expectations.

Because we're bipolar.

Being bipolar is different of being maniqueist

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People talk shit about Axl's voice, but apparently Slash made a brilliant move in making Myles his singer. Gimme a fuckin break. Myles is the DJ of Slash's band.

I had the same thought a few months earlier. BUT, his works on Alter Bridge don't leave any doubt about his talent.

Bringing Myles to the band was a bad move not because of his skills, but simply because his voice doesn't fit on the type of Hard Rock/Rock N' Roll that Slash does. DJ by the other hand, is a bad guitarrist, AND didn't fit on the band. I'm gonna leave here a few videos with AB songs, when you have time left, watch them.

Slip to the Void:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PABO3RC2c7k

Bleed it Dry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRgbDQxQZ14

Wonderful Life:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1RwwcfqJ4

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Fact is, there are probably only 2-3 people whose views are that "black and white," and then there are a few more people who like to egg those 2-3 on, and then there is a bunch of people who get sucked in and riled up cuz threads tilt toward retard. Have a reasonable conversation with people and you'll find that almost all of them have reasonable opinions, even if you disagree with them.

That is exactly it.

I think the majority of us would just have normal conversations and debates if people didn't take extreme sides to some issues.

A reasonable debate will be happening and then somebody will throw in "Ya, but DJ is 100 times better than Slash" and somebody else will respond "well that drug addict junkie sucks and he sucks now, so Axl is lucky to have DJ instead of Slash"...................and then, like Mags said, the fight starts.

Most of us come here to chat. But a few people seem to come here specifically to piss people off or to start arguments. And then people hold grudges and carry them from topic to topic, so they go into a new topic with a chip on the shoulder and they just want to attack their enemy instead of just chatting about GnR. Crazy cycle.

Pretty much sums it up.

welcome to community spirit.

I think when you have a band as divisive as GNR, a forum tends to lead to polar opinions. It also tends to be those who speak loudest get heard, and the loudest ones tend to be ones on either polar end.

the loudest guy in the room is always the weakest.

I think no matter what you're gonna do, the hardcore fan base is always going to be divided. That's why I feel for Subs and HV. There's just no way you're gonna have Utopia around these parts, ever.

Some think Axl had every right to use the name without any of the others, others will always be baffled that he had the audacity. Some will love his nu direction, others are gonna (genuinely) hate it. Some are amused by what Axl has done, others are shocked in the same way as seeing a plane crash. Some are here for love and dedication for the nu band, some are here for their love and dedication of the old band. Then you have the few neutral people that feel like they awkwardly have to pick sides. "You're either with us or against us".

As ridiculous as it sounds, it's just the way things became over the years. It's just a huge clusterfuck that will never change. The damage is done and is beyond repair. Tis a shame really.

But without the damage there's nothing left to talk about.

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Fact is, there are probably only 2-3 people whose views are that "black and white," and then there are a few more people who like to egg those 2-3 on, and then there is a bunch of people who get sucked in and riled up cuz threads tilt toward retard. Have a reasonable conversation with people and you'll find that almost all of them have reasonable opinions, even if you disagree with them.

That is exactly it.

I think the majority of us would just have normal conversations and debates if people didn't take extreme sides to some issues.

A reasonable debate will be happening and then somebody will throw in "Ya, but DJ is 100 times better than Slash" and somebody else will respond "well that drug addict junkie sucks and he sucks now, so Axl is lucky to have DJ instead of Slash"...................and then, like Mags said, the fight starts.

Most of us come here to chat. But a few people seem to come here specifically to piss people off or to start arguments. And then people hold grudges and carry them from topic to topic, so they go into a new topic with a chip on the shoulder and they just want to attack their enemy instead of just chatting about GnR. Crazy cycle.

Yes, this is pretty much it. I couldn't agree more.

I got nothing on CD, simply because I don't like it. No more, no less. That's just my taste. Period. I need no discussion about my taste.

I like Axl and I like Slash. Period. Can't see anything wrong with that.

The split up was bound to happen. Everybody who was around in 1993 and watched the last shows knew that an accident was waiting to happen. They played well, it was great, and I enjoyed it, but somehow the chemistry was gone, there was tension on the stage, and there was nothing to do about it anymore. It just didn't work any longer. It's a shame, a real shame, and I miss them, but that's how it is.

It's a good thing that a lot of people like CD - it's my bad luck that I don't. I still don't understand this pathetic issue about an Axl-camp and a Slash-camp, though. I'm sorry, sometimes I feel here like being in Kindergarten again. :/

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