The contrast of the good and bad songs on UYI 2

[Axlspants]

When the albums came out I loved every song but now I kinda agree although I do like the lyrics in Breakdown. Listening to the Illusion albums now, I can't believe how tame and tepid KOHD and LALD are on the records than when they were played live back in the day. I agree that KOHD is boring since they re-worked it, it just goes on and on and all you can think about is the fact that its 1.30 in the morning and you've got a confrence call all 11am!!

[Fin]

This plus So Fine.

I struggle to come up with a single positive for that song. Duff is a terrible singer, the lyrics are garbage, the production is "the UYI sound" at its most nauseating, the guitar is unremarkable, Axl has that unattractively hoarse voice in his parts... It's just a bad song in every conceivable way.

I'm not even going to bother justifying my placement of Get in the Ring on the list. The song speaks for itself.

The singing by Axl and Duff in So Fine suits the song perfectly, if not amazingly. The production is great, it wouldn't have benefitted from Appetite-production. The lyrics are decent. The solo is a bit cheesy. Over all a very good song.

Last couple of minutes of Estranged are nauseating. Maybe you mixed the two songs up.

[Izzy_Stradlin_XX]

I think that the UYI albums suffers from one flaw just like Exile on Main Street. Sometimes you get kind of lost because there are so many tracks. Don't get me wrong, I love those albums, but they're so long! There's a reason most albums don't run more than 45 minutes.

Also, I think that the UYI albums would have sounded so much different with Steven on them, not just the overall sound of the band, but the songs would've been composed in a different way.

UYI II is great, in some points even better than UYI I, it just lacks Izzy. The epic Estranged, the rocker Locomotive, it's got all the elements, if you take away My World, it's actaully the perfect album. I think they should have released UYI I in 1991 and waited one year to release the other record. I actually associate UYI I with the 1991 tour and UYI II with the 1992 tour. The skin n bones tour sounded like they wanted to go back to the Lies sessions. They should have stopped after 1992, have taken a look at the catalog and make a good album with rockers and ballads, and released it in 1993. I think that a 3 year tour was pointless, but still got some great bootlegs out of it.

[TeeJay410]

I actually like KOHD a lot, but I'm well aware I'm in the minority.

Some of the songs are just sorry, like shotgun blues and get in the ring.

However some songs would have been kick ass if the production weren't so obnoxious. Garden of Eden, Right next door to hell, and perfect crime could have been solid hard rocking tracks. They sounded brilliant live.

An example would be the demo of 14 years with the alternate ending. That song sounds bad ass, and still sounds like rock music.

[TombRaider]

Never got the hate for So Fine or Breakdown. They're great songs in my book… but then again, English is not my first language and maybe things just sound different to me…

[RichardNixon]

I don't hate any of the songs on UYI. That said, I would have cut off "You Ain't the First," GITR and "Shotgun Blues."

I really like "So Fine."

[rocknroll41]

switch Don't Cry (Alt.) with Knocking and the OP's lists would make perfect sense!

[bacardimayne]

This plus So Fine.

I struggle to come up with a single positive for that song. Duff is a terrible singer, the lyrics are garbage, the production is "the UYI sound" at its most nauseating, the guitar is unremarkable, Axl has that unattractively hoarse voice in his parts... It's just a bad song in every conceivable way.

I'm not even going to bother justifying my placement of Get in the Ring on the list. The song speaks for itself.

The singing by Axl and Duff in So Fine suits the song perfectly, if not amazingly. The production is great, it wouldn't have benefitted from Appetite-production. The lyrics are decent. The solo is a bit cheesy. Over all a very good song.

Last couple of minutes of Estranged are nauseating. Maybe you mixed the two songs up.

Did I say Appetite production? No. There are more than two types of production in the world you know.

[Iron MikeyJ]

I have thought a lot about this while listening to them on vinyl, because you can't skip songs. Not just uyi2, but both of them. We like to talk about "perfect track orders" and what not quite often around here, and I think both albums are pretty close to perfect as is. Actually I have been messing with the records though, combine them into 1, 4 record album. It goes a little something like this....

Illusion 1, side 1

1. Right next door to hell

2. Dusnt n' bones

3. Live and let die

4. Don't cry

5. Perfect Crime

Illusion 2, side 1

6. Civil War

7. 14 Years

8. Yesterday

9. Knockin' on heavens door

Illusion 1, side 2

10. You ain't the first

11. Bad Obsession

12. Back off Bitch (could live without this song)

13. Double talkin' jive

Illusion 2, side 2

14. Get in the ring

15. Shotgun blues (I could live without this song)

16. Breakdown

Illusion 2, side 3

17. Pretty tied up

18. Locomotive

19. So Fine

Illusion 1, side 3

20. November Rain

21. The Garden

22. Garden of Eden

23. Don't damn me

Illusion 2, side 4

24. Estranged

25. You could be mine

26. Don't Cry alt

27. My World (dislike)

Illusion 1, side 4

28. Bad Apples

29. Dead Horse

30. Coma

[LAMER]

I agree, some songs just didn’t warrant a release on a major GNR record, but they are still good songs, with the exception of 1 or 2. Keep the ten best songs on each disk:

UYI 1:

Dust N’ Bones

Don’t Cry

Perfect Crime

Bad Obsession

Double Talkin’ Jive

November Rain

The Garden (Perhaps have Axl sing the whole song, might make it better)

Don’t Damn Me

Dead Horse

Coma

UYI 2:

Civil War

14 Years

Yesterdays

KOHD

Breakdown

Pretty Tied Up

Locomotive

Estranged

You Could Be Mine

Don’t Cry Alt (perhaps replace with Garden of Eden here)

Package it as one product.

Put the others on an added bonus disk.

We have a package that could’ve outsold Appetite.

Edited January 22, 2014 by LAMER

[gunnari]

Why so much hate towards My World??

[Gagarin]

Shotgun Blues and Get In The Ring, that's it.

I'm sorry you don't appreciate My World.

But...Breakdown? Breakdown is great. So Fine is also very good.

I'm sorry. I'm just sorry.

[Roush]

Use Your Illusion is an average album from a great band.

[Jakey Styley]

The chorus part of Breakdown is sick.

[DR DOOM]

Breakdown isn't even a song. It's an absolute mess. How anyone can like it truly baffles me.

You shut your fuckin' mouth!

I do really like Breakdown. Always have. Pretty much agree with the rest.

I used to H A T E Breakdown. Somewhere around 10 years ago, something clicked and I just started liking it. I don't think I've ever gone from hating a song as much as I did to loving a song as much as I do with any other song I've ever heard.

I never really liked it much when I was younger either, took me ages to appreciate it (though the ending is a bit daft)

[Axl_morris]

I agree with the OP apart from breakdown which is awesome. Heavens door could have made the cut but the dial tone and answer machine message ruin it.

[IncitingChaos]

I'm shocked how much GNR fans hate KNocking on Heavens Door...I thought it was one of the better covers by a band. Oh well to each their own.

[Slash is Cancer]

If you didn't include Breakdown and Knockin' on Heavens Door in the second list ... you might have a good point.

Breakdown has always been one of my favorite Guns tracks. So, for that reason alone, thread/fail.

Basically, an album has its good songs and its not-so-good songs. What was the point of this thread again?

[Zanedog]

I don't really understand the idea of eliminating songs from an album or that an album would be better if some tracks were omitted. In my opinion, I love having more stuff to listen to from my bands. I would have loved to have a finished version of Just Another Sunday, Bring it Back Home, Sentimental Movie, etc. But I'm just thankful we have at least one version of those songs.

Same goes for people liking a demo version of a song more than the album version. Who cares, listen to the version you like most and be thankful you have a variety to choose from.

Who knows, maybe I just think that way cause I've grown up in this MP3 era where you can pick and choose your favorite tracks. I still really only listen to CDs if I have a choice, but I have more alternatives than generations that had Records and cassettes.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Zanedog

[Slash is Cancer]

I used to H A T E Breakdown. Somewhere around 10 years ago, something clicked and I just started liking it. I don't think I've ever gone from hating a song as much as I did to loving a song as much as I do with any other song I've ever heard.

Same. In my teens, I used to skip Breakdown every time it cam up in rotation. It wasn't until my late 20s that I started to appreciate the song for what it is. One of their finest, imo.

[wasted]

The reason for the filler is imo royalties. Everyone had written songs and wanted to get them on the record(s) for the sake of publishing and royalty money. Perhaps if the 6 members recieved an equal share (this is what U2 do) half of the songs would have not been on the record. Its a real shame, as without the filler, a single Illusion album (with different production) would have bettered Appetite.

The filler should have been left for B sides, box sets and live albums.

Anyway, easy for me to say as I have yet to release an album with hit songs yet alone filler.

what are the filler tracks in your opinion?

Good question, as some of my list will be others favourites. I should first of all qualify that by filler I mean not 5 star solid gold tracks (like the majority of appetite or the R side of Lies)

This is actually quite tougher than I expected! I should say that what I consider filler (the tracks I skip) are decent enough tracks but just no-where near the same calibre as my Solid Gold list.

SOLID GOLD (as good as or better than anything on Appetite)

Don't Cry, Nov Rain, Coma, Civil War, Estranged, YCBM

FILLER

Perfect Crime, You Aint The First, Garden Of Eden, Back Of Bitch, Shotgun Blues, My World, Bad Apples (love the lyrics), So Fine (like the music) Bad Obsession,

I know that as a GNR fan, I would love to hear everything they ever record good or bad, but in terms of making the best album in history which UYI could have been, it should have been stripped back with some tracks released later as B Sides etc. Imagine only being able to hear Garden Of Eden on a B side or Perfect Crime on a live album, you would just be like holy fuck these boys have some sonic arsenal!

Intrested in your thoughts!

I think I agree mostly.

So your album would look something like this

Right Next Door to Hell

Dust N Bones

Live n Let Die

Don't Cry

Double Talking Jive

November Rain

The Garden

Don't Damn Me

Dead Horse

Coma

Civil war

14 years

Yesterdays

Heavens door

Breakdown

Pretty Tied Up

Locomotive

You Could Be Mine

Estranged

19 tracks, so to get it down to 15 I'd take out the Izzy songs DnB, 14 years, double talking jive, dead horse. Then you basically have 15 pure GNR songs?

I thinks it's true that Izzy and Duff give freedom to do solo tracks. And even Slash to do kind of faster rockers. So Axl got to do his epics.

Axl singing about Illusions on DDM or Loco is much satisfying than So Fine or even 14 years.

Edited January 23, 2014 by wasted

[wasted]

My experience of UYI was RNDTH, DTJ, Bad Obsession, Back Off Bitch, Perfect Crime, Garden of Eden, pretty Tied up was what I like on first listen. I rewound the tape on RNDTH many times before I even listened to anything else.

It took me a while to get into the longer stuff. Estranged not until 2000. The crunchy and complexity of Don't damn me and locomotive being real growers.

I think I like Civil War and Breakdown as like the new Paradise City's.

I think this satisfying of AFD fans is much diminished on CD, and even on UYI type tracks the production takes it to a different place. CD is more of a shock to the system there's no kowtowing to past records in a pure way. The attitude is much different. UYI is a true repress ration of where band was. Some members still holding on the past. With Izzy rejecting it, Axl trying to grow.

But if you de-filler UYI you get a record closer to CD than AFD.

Edited January 23, 2014 by wasted

[Steelfin]

The reason for the filler is imo royalties. Everyone had written songs and wanted to get them on the record(s) for the sake of publishing and royalty money. Perhaps if the 6 members recieved an equal share (this is what U2 do) half of the songs would have not been on the record. Its a real shame, as without the filler, a single Illusion album (with different production) would have bettered Appetite.

The filler should have been left for B sides, box sets and live albums.

Anyway, easy for me to say as I have yet to release an album with hit songs yet alone filler.

what are the filler tracks in your opinion?

Good question, as some of my list will be others favourites. I should first of all qualify that by filler I mean not 5 star solid gold tracks (like the majority of appetite or the R side of Lies)

This is actually quite tougher than I expected! I should say that what I consider filler (the tracks I skip) are decent enough tracks but just no-where near the same calibre as my Solid Gold list.

SOLID GOLD (as good as or better than anything on Appetite)

Don't Cry, Nov Rain, Coma, Civil War, Estranged, YCBM

FILLER

Perfect Crime, You Aint The First, Garden Of Eden, Back Of Bitch, Shotgun Blues, My World, Bad Apples (love the lyrics), So Fine (like the music) Bad Obsession,

I know that as a GNR fan, I would love to hear everything they ever record good or bad, but in terms of making the best album in history which UYI could have been, it should have been stripped back with some tracks released later as B Sides etc. Imagine only being able to hear Garden Of Eden on a B side or Perfect Crime on a live album, you would just be like holy fuck these boys have some sonic arsenal!

Intrested in your thoughts!

I think I agree mostly.

So your album would look something like this

Right Next Door to Hell

Dust N Bones

Live n Let Die

Don't Cry

Double Talking Jive

November Rain

The Garden

Don't Damn Me

Dead Horse

Coma

Civil war

14 years

Yesterdays

Heavens door

Breakdown

Pretty Tied Up

Locomotive

You Could Be Mine

Estranged

19 tracks, so to get it down to 15 I'd take out the Izzy songs DnB, 14 years, double talking jive, dead horse. Then you basically have 15 pure GNR songs?

I thinks it's true that Izzy and Duff give freedom to do solo tracks. And even Slash to do kind of faster rockers. So Axl got to do his epics.

Axl singing about Illusions on DDM or Loco is much satisfying than So Fine or even 14 years.

.....

Agreed, but I would be a bit more ruthless! I think you're right about the comprimise they all made so they could each get to do their own songs. This is my Appetite killer! Its been difficult to leave off some tracks! Love KOHD but as it was on the Days Of Thunder soundtrack and on a live ep it doesnt really need to be on the album. My list starts rockin, then gets dark but see's the light at the end with Don't Cry!

You Could Be Mine

Right Next Door to Hell

Live n Let Die

Pretty Tied Up

Locomotive

Civil War

November Rain

Estranged

Coma

Don't Cry

Do you think this would have slayed Appetite?

[wasted]

The reason for the filler is imo royalties. Everyone had written songs and wanted to get them on the record(s) for the sake of publishing and royalty money. Perhaps if the 6 members recieved an equal share (this is what U2 do) half of the songs would have not been on the record. Its a real shame, as without the filler, a single Illusion album (with different production) would have bettered Appetite.

The filler should have been left for B sides, box sets and live albums.

Anyway, easy for me to say as I have yet to release an album with hit songs yet alone filler.

what are the filler tracks in your opinion?

Good question, as some of my list will be others favourites. I should first of all qualify that by filler I mean not 5 star solid gold tracks (like the majority of appetite or the R side of Lies)

This is actually quite tougher than I expected! I should say that what I consider filler (the tracks I skip) are decent enough tracks but just no-where near the same calibre as my Solid Gold list.

SOLID GOLD (as good as or better than anything on Appetite)

Don't Cry, Nov Rain, Coma, Civil War, Estranged, YCBM

FILLER

Perfect Crime, You Aint The First, Garden Of Eden, Back Of Bitch, Shotgun Blues, My World, Bad Apples (love the lyrics), So Fine (like the music) Bad Obsession,

I know that as a GNR fan, I would love to hear everything they ever record good or bad, but in terms of making the best album in history which UYI could have been, it should have been stripped back with some tracks released later as B Sides etc. Imagine only being able to hear Garden Of Eden on a B side or Perfect Crime on a live album, you would just be like holy fuck these boys have some sonic arsenal!

Intrested in your thoughts!

I think I agree mostly.

So your album would look something like this

Right Next Door to Hell

Dust N Bones

Live n Let Die

Don't Cry

Double Talking Jive

November Rain

The Garden

Don't Damn Me

Dead Horse

Coma

Civil war

14 years

Yesterdays

Heavens door

Breakdown

Pretty Tied Up

Locomotive

You Could Be Mine

Estranged

19 tracks, so to get it down to 15 I'd take out the Izzy songs DnB, 14 years, double talking jive, dead horse. Then you basically have 15 pure GNR songs?

I thinks it's true that Izzy and Duff give freedom to do solo tracks. And even Slash to do kind of faster rockers. So Axl got to do his epics.

Axl singing about Illusions on DDM or Loco is much satisfying than So Fine or even 14 years.

.....

Agreed, but I would be a bit more ruthless! I think you're right about the comprimise they all made so they could each get to do their own songs. This is my Appetite killer! Its been difficult to leave off some tracks! Love KOHD but as it was on the Days Of Thunder soundtrack and on a live ep it doesnt really need to be on the album. My list starts rockin, then gets dark but see's the light at the end with Don't Cry!

You Could Be Mine

Right Next Door to Hell

Live n Let Die

Pretty Tied Up

Locomotive

Civil War

November Rain

Estranged

Coma

Don't Cry

Do you think this would have slayed Appetite?

I try to be fair

Side 1

If you take YCBM to be a Jungle type track. - AFD 1 - UYI 0

RNDTH didn't seem to impact as much as Easy - AFD 2 - UYI 0

LALD v Nightrain…maybe Live is stronger. Live is probably a more memorable song, it's a classic cover. 2-1

Pretty Tied up v Out ta get Me. Let's call it a tie. 3-2

Does Locomotive and Civil War shade Brownstone and Paradise City. Sort of a tie again. 4-3

AFD rockers shade UYI rockers, UYI pulls one back with a classic cover. Then the UYI epics balance out some of great AFD album tracks. AFD takes an early 4-3 lead.

Side 2 - seeing as AFD has 12 tracks and theres only 4 tracks on side 2 of this UYI.

Personally I would take November Rain over My Michelle and Think About You. 4-4.

I would say SCOM is equal to Estranged. 5-5

I'd take Coma over Anything Goes and You're Crazy (these tracks aren't anything that haven't been done better on side 1 of AFD) 5-6

Don't Cry is a single, RQ the classic album track. same as SCOM/Estrnaged a tie. 6-7.

The UYI epics beat 2 tracks of AFD album tracks. Classic UYI/AFD tracks tie with the singles. final score 6-7 to UYI.

I would say they are about equal, allowing for some unconscious bias or quirks of the scoring system. and human error, it's me of course.

Definitely you could guess that UYI scores points for Nov Rain and Estranged which AFD doesn't have. UYI matches AFD for singles as well.

I have always tried to match them song for song to AFD like

You Could Be Mine

Double Talkin Jive

Back Off Bitch

Don't Damn Me

Bad Obsession

Civil War

Garden of Eden

Pretty Tied Up/14 Years/Dust N Bones

Don't Cry

Perfect Crime

The Garden

November Rain

But the fact is you can swap in Estranged, Breakdown, Coma for songs like Garden of Eden, Perfect Crime etc. which leans it more to UYI.

[Johnny Drama]

If there's one issue with UYI 2 other than Grt in The Ring (Shotgun is fun, DC Alt pointless but awesome, My World only lasts a minute FFS and is just a quirky outro a la Her Majesty) is the lack of Izzy across the board. UYI 1 had plenty of him and he's at a reasonable volume whereas 2 either had him mixed out on songs or not even playing.