foghat43 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 First let me say that I am fairly new to this forum with only a few posts under my belt...but I've read enough posts to see that questions like the one I'm about to ask have a tendency to quickly deteriorate into heated Axl/newGnR vs. Slash/oldGnR debates. I hope that doesn't happen to this one because that is not my intent and I'm not really in either camp. I do have a clear preference for which style of music I like better (which will become apparent below), but I like both Axl and Slash, respect both of them as musicians, and like all of their work.And this is somewhat of a follow-up question to my post from yesterday ("The GnR songwriting process").The evolution of the band seems to be one of Axl gaining more and more influence/control over time until ultimately he had full control (CD). So it would seem that whether or not one percieves Axl to be a musical wiz hinges upon whether or not one thinks the band/music regressed or improved over time. Obviously there were many variables involved (like the band spending less time together, tensions among members, drugs, etc.), but one of the main/constant factors seems to be Axl's influence on the creative process.For me (and I realize this is subjective/personal taste)...the quality of the music regressed as Axl gradually came to have more influence...the band peaked with AFD/Lies, with the UYI era stuff not being as good as AFD, and then CD (which was essentially an Axl solo record with the band being GnR in name only) being worse than the UYI material. Also, I prefer most of Snakepit, VR and Slash's solo stuff to CD. Don't get me wrong...I do like CD very much...I just don't like it as well as "old" GnR or Slash's side projects/solo work. So assuming Axl was the "director", the "maestro", with everything flowing from him...and if he was such a musical genius then why did the band regress musically as he gained more control and influence?(Of course...if you are in the camp that thinks that the band progressed and that CD is a masterpiece...then I can understand why you would percieve Axl as a genius. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Didn't read. Not going to. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't think there are all that many people here who would call him a musical genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 don't care about the question and didnot read your OP but you get much respect for your name as Foghat was a great band........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 tl;drAxl isn't a musical genius. No one believes that. They might say it. But they don't believe it. He's just a guy who had a good voice and sings in a rock band. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlfan88 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't think there are all that many people here who would call him a musical genius.They are much more than you'd think. They don't say it (after an album as mediocre as CD, it would sound ridiculous, they're aware of that), but they're thinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't think there are all that many people here who would call him a musical genius.They are much more than you'd think. They don't say it (after an album as mediocre as CD, it would sound ridiculous, they're aware of that), but they're thinking it.Someone set up a yes/no poll. I'd do it but I'm mobile and can't be bothered to put in the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The majority of musicians create their best work in their youth (bar the odd exception). Considering that AFD is generally thought of as more of a classic than the UYI's (by this I mean the album as a whole as opposed to individual songs) then there is no guarantee that had the old band stayed together their future output would necessarily be better than CD, it would have been different obviously but possibly not a masterpiece either.There is probably numerous answers and explanations to your question in reality. I like Chinese Democracy so I'm not too disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Axl regressed musically because he's cult. He's too cool to produce quality music. Don't question it, just suckle away at the Axl teet until he pats your head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlfan88 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 If he wasn't considered as a "genius" by many people, this forum would be even more dead than it already is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't think there are all that many people here who would call him a musical genius.They are much more than you'd think. They don't say it (after an album as mediocre as CD, it would sound ridiculous, they're aware of that), but they're thinking it. CD is my favorite GNR album. I still know Axl isn't a genius. Let me put it this way - a genius wouldn't release something with as horrible a mix as CITR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) In a way, he is musical genius. He's just blighted by his own complexities - he can't see things as black and white. He can't be practical in the way that somebody like Trent Reznor can. That comes off in things like production. Chinese is very possibly my favorite record of all time, though. Edited January 25, 2014 by NGOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saber_ Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 How many people have called Axl a musical genius again? Oh right, 10 people on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 How many people have called Axl a musical genius again? Oh right, 10 people on the internet. He writes a lot of fucking awesome songs, that's how I'd put it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 How many people have called Axl a musical genius again? Oh right, 10 people on the internet. He writes a lot of fucking awesome songs, that's how I'd put it. Right, but that kinda cheapens the term genius, no? Is Slash a guitar genius because he wrote a lot of awesome riffs and solos? No. The closest thing about Axl to being genius was his stage presence. WAS. And I'm not even bagging on him. He's my favorite performer of all time. But genius? Come on now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 How many people have called Axl a musical genius again? Oh right, 10 people on the internet. He writes a lot of fucking awesome songs, that's how I'd put it. Right, but that kinda cheapens the term genius, no? Is Slash a guitar genius because he wrote a lot of awesome riffs and solos? No. The closest thing about Axl to being genius was his stage presence. WAS. And I'm not even bagging on him. He's my favorite performer of all time. But genius? Come on now.I know what you mean.I'm not saying that he has a genius-quality in the sense that he changed music forever or something. There is just something genius about the simplicity of GNR. Why is this brand of cock-rock so damn endearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 GNR tapped into something visceral that other bands of the time didn't even approach. Call it genius or rawness or grit or sleaze or whatever, I don't know, I don't think any of those capture it, and I don't like to throw "genius" around, but I'm also not sure what the rights words are. It was something. And it was magical for a few years. And it's why I'm here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saber_ Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think you have to give Axl some credit for his vocal timbre. Yes yes, I understand that's a very specific and controversial aspect of the term "genius," but Axl's raspy singing voice was unique, even among raspy singers. There's a little genius in his singing style. S'all I'm sayin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think you have to give Axl some credit for his vocal timbre. Yes yes, I understand that's a very specific and controversial aspect of the term "genius," but Axl's raspy singing voice was unique, even among raspy singers. There's a little genius in his singing style. S'all I'm sayin.I agree with your sentiment, I just wouldn't use "genius." But that's just fucking semantics, so whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estranged Reality Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Musical genius may be taking it a bit far. With Axl, as a rock star, it was more of the whole package: he was oozing with charisma (at least on stage), he had a killer voice, and he and his bandmates wrote some killer songs. That's why he'll go down in history as one of the all-time greats, because for a few years there from around '87 - '93 he was unstoppable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguy Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 First let me say that I am fairly new to this forum with only a few posts under my belt...If you truly are new to this forum and not just an alt, then let me tell you the basics, according to this forum:Axl wrote AFD. Slash was drugged out the whole time, and Axl actually wrote Slash's solos. Izzy had some input into AFD, but mostly it was Axl. (There's a well-accepted rumor that DJ ghost-wrote and ghost-performed AFD).UYI had some dull moments thanks to Slash becoming a dictator. Axl, however, still saved the day with his maestro skillz.Slash then came to Axl with what would become Slash's first solo album and told Axl to sing it. Slash wrote all the lyrics, because hey, that's what Slash is known for: his lyric writing. Haven't you seen his signature Gibson songwriting pen and paper set? Slash won't let anyone write lyrics, just look at VR, Slash wrote all those lyrics too.Then Axl wrote ChiDem, which is accepted as the greatest work of anything that any human has done. The ONLY reasons it tanked is that the label was OUT TA GET AXL, Slash interfered, and Irving screwed up the tracklisting order.And there you go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 picardfacepalm.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voIcano62 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The only ones unable to admit to his genius are the butt hurt slasholes that are still carrying a 20 year old grudge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The only ones unable to admit to his genius are the butt hurt slasholes that are still carrying a 20 year old grudge.I'm not biting, you asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 First let me say that I am fairly new to this forum with only a few posts under my belt...If you truly are new to this forum and not just an alt, then let me tell you the basics, according to this forum:Axl wrote AFD. Slash was drugged out the whole time, and Axl actually wrote Slash's solos. Izzy had some input into AFD, but mostly it was Axl. (There's a well-accepted rumor that DJ ghost-wrote and ghost-performed AFD).UYI had some dull moments thanks to Slash becoming a dictator. Axl, however, still saved the day with his maestro skillz.Slash then came to Axl with what would become Slash's first solo album and told Axl to sing it. Slash wrote all the lyrics, because hey, that's what Slash is known for: his lyric writing. Haven't you seen his signature Gibson songwriting pen and paper set? Slash won't let anyone write lyrics, just look at VR, Slash wrote all those lyrics too.Then Axl wrote ChiDem, which is accepted as the greatest work of anything that any human has done. The ONLY reasons it tanked is that the label was OUT TA GET AXL, Slash interfered, and Irving screwed up the tracklisting order.And there you go.Go away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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