So if Axl is such a musical genius then why...

[The GIow Inc.]

He's not a musical genius. He isn't even close to such being mentioned in such a league. I used to admire him and I wanted to see his new vision of the band succeed, but I'm not blind. I recognize that he is more interested in financial security than he was in adding another chapter to the legacy without Slash. That's blatantly obvious at this point. I've lost so much respect for him as a person and as an artist that it's sad ... just sad. That's the only way I can describe it. And I always considered myself to be objective and open to new ideas, but he has failed his fanbase tremendously and no set of excuses can negate that reality.

Initially what peaked my interest in the band to begin with was my love of Bumblefoot. But, now I realize that he's every bit as lazy as Axl himself since he chooses to continue relying on the easy paydays over focusing on his own art. Thanks, Axl. Not only did you destroy any respect that I had for you, but in the process, you caused me to lose every ounce of respect for the individual that brought you in to my radar to begin with. I never thought I would say this, but I can't blame any of the classic members for walking out on this guy years ago. If any of the current members had any shred of dignity, they would follow suit. It's just beyond pathetic.

If I offend anyone with my comments, I'm sorry. You're either as frustrated as I am because you know that what I say is true or you'd rather believe that this laziness and lack of artistic integrity is somehow rock n roll of Axl in an attempt to justify his blatantly obvious ignorance and laziness.

[EvH]

The only ones unable to admit to his genius are the butt hurt slasholes that are still carrying a 20 year old grudge.

How predictable. Is your record scratched?

[wasted]

I think they peaked with UYI II musically.

From what I read Axl only had control or exacted control on his songs on UYI. Slash handed guitar songs in finished like Coma that Axl had to write words too. I think worked on Nov Rain a lot, maybe Estranged too but not on some other tracks.

The rest of the band let go of control as much as Axl took it. There's not much Axl could do to the songs apart from select or edit what were the best ones to use for lyrics.

It seems like if the brought in good songs Axl sang them or helped realise them by singing on them.

I don't think UYI is overproduced. It's a little underproduced. Some songs are long, some short, some medium. There's no evidence of Axls power trip, control freak, ego ruining the music ever.

[One.In.A.Million]

Axl is a musical genius, but he needs the right people around him, to bring the art out of him. He needs to believe in the band to get the music and lyrics out, and I don't believe Axl believes in the current band like he used to.

In 86-93, I believe Axl knew he had a solid band behind him. Once again from 02-07, I feel Axl was really happy with the band he managed to build. And the new material validated his belief...

Now we are in a situation where we can see that Axl has no interest in letting the current band create new music. He knows that the material he already has will always be better than anything the DJ fronted version of GN'R can come up with.

And that's why he has lost his drive and determination to move forward and evolve.

Edited January 26, 2014 by One.In.A.Million

[GN'R Lies]

I don't think UYI is overproduced. It's a little underproduced.

?

[wasted]

I don't think UYI is overproduced. It's a little underproduced.

?

As in given the scope of the material, they all get a kind of generic production. That kind of holds it together. But given the ambition of some songs they seem almost sparse. The drums seem a bit workmanlike like they didn't put much thought into the whole production really.

[DieselDaisy]

I think Illusion is terribly over-produced. I mean, ''cool ranch dressing''? I also feel GN'R peaked with Appetite, not Illusion.

Edited January 26, 2014 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

I guess it's subjective.

[DieselDaisy]

It is not subjective. The album, the basic tracks, was already recorded by Late-1990 yet Use Your Illusion was delayed 'till Sept 1991. Why? Axl had moved into the Record Plant and was proceeding to swamp the album with loads of overdubs; this is when all of those movie quotations, the Dead Horse nutcracker and Coma’s bitches’ were recorded. The rest of the band, Izzy in particular, were appalled. Axl added a whole fuckin’ orchestra to November Rain using a keyboard for crying out load - it took him months to program! The idea that Illusion is 'under-produced' is simply ludicrous.

I suppose by Chinese Democracy standards it is under-produced, but then, every album ever recorded is under-produced by the standards of that tragic mess of overdubs and masturbation.

[GN'R Lies]

It is not subjective. The album, the basic tracks, was already recorded by Late-1990 yet Use Your Illusion was delayed 'till Sept 1991. Why? Axl had moved into the Record Plant and was proceeding to swamp the album with loads of overdubs; this is when all of those movie quotations, the Dead Horse nutcracker and Comas bitches were recorded. The rest of the band, Izzy in particular, were appalled. Axl added a whole fuckin orchestra to November Rain using a keyboard for crying out load - it took him months to program! The idea that Illusion is 'under-produced' is simply ludicrous.

I suppose by Chinese Democracy standards it is under-produced, but then, every album ever recorded is under-produced by the standards of that tragic mess of overdubs and masturbation.

Point made with a sledgehammer

[RussTCB]

I think Illusion is terribly over-produced. I mean, ''cool ranch dressing''? I also feel GN'R peaked with Appetite, not Illusion.

I think of that all the time, but KoHD is usually the one that makes me think of it. I mean, just the breakdown alone with the phone call, choir and everything. I can't imagine how many delays and how much money was spent on just that alone. That's before you even start to consider how many sessions, arguments, time and energy were probably wasted on things like you mentioned.

[foghat43]

Frankly...I find it baffling how anyone thinks the UYI material was better than AFD. Even on those UYI songs that are supposedly leftovers from the AFD era (e.g. You Could Be Mine), there seems to be something missing in the mix. Heck, I even like Lies better than most of the stuff on UYI. I can't really put my finger on it, but UYI was just lacking something...call it the X factor or whatever...but by that time the band had already lost that "magic" (for lack of a better word) that they had on AFD/Lies. But I agree it's a matter of personal preference.

[DieselDaisy]

Well changes in dramatis personae certainly altered the sound. Adler was more, Watts, whereas Sorum was a heavy metal thumper in the Bonham tradition. Also Reed adding honky tonk piano to everything did not help and it was disapointing that SIR recovered their amp after Appetite as Slash has never achieved that sound again. Then throw ontop of the tracks Axl's overdub masturbation and you have a significently different sounding album to Appetite for Destruction.

[Guest Len B'stard]

He isn't one and never has been and, as far as i know has never claimed to be.

[The GIow Inc.]

Frankly...I find it baffling how anyone thinks the UYI material was better than AFD. Even on those UYI songs that are supposedly leftovers from the AFD era (e.g. You Could Be Mine), there seems to be something missing in the mix. Heck, I even like Lies better than most of the stuff on UYI. I can't really put my finger on it, but UYI was just lacking something...call it the X factor or whatever...but by that time the band had already lost that "magic" (for lack of a better word) that they had on AFD/Lies. But I agree it's a matter of personal preference.

The "X factor" that you mentioned was the very unique and loose style of drumming and the addition of one very unnecessary keyboardist.

[Rustycage]

I don't think UYI is overproduced. It's a little underproduced.

?

As in given the scope of the material, they all get a kind of generic production. That kind of holds it together. But given the ambition of some songs they seem almost sparse. The drums seem a bit workmanlike like they didn't put much thought into the whole production really.

You never fail to live up to your username.

[GNRfan2008]

I think Illusion is terribly over-produced. I mean, ''cool ranch dressing''? I also feel GN'R peaked with Appetite, not Illusion.

I think of that all the time, but KoHD is usually the one that makes me think of it. I mean, just the breakdown alone with the phone call, choir and everything. I can't imagine how many delays and how much money was spent on just that alone. That's before you even start to consider how many sessions, arguments, time and energy were probably wasted on things like you mentioned.

KOHD is a perfect example of over-producing a song. I much prefer the version performed during Live at the Ritz and other club gigs from the 80's. He basically took a shit on the song in the studio, which is a shame.

[foghat43]

He isn't one and never has been and, as far as i know has never claimed to be.

I agree...as far as I know Axl has never explicitly claimed to be a "genius". But I think there was something like that implied in that he seemed to feel that the other members were expendable and his ego led him to believe that he was the mastermind behind GnR. Just my take on it...I could be dead wrong. However, I do know from first hand experience that many of Axl's fans claim that he is a "genius" of sorts, that CD was a "masterpiece", that Axl was/is GnR, etc. I've heard it with my own ears in conversations with fans and seen similar types of comments on forums (not necessarily this one). Perhaps my use of the word "genius" was a poor choice. People seem to be getting hung up on that word in particular. I was just trying to convey the idea that alot of people believe that Axl was somehow the mastermind, the driving force behind GnR...maybe he was...but my point was simply that if Axl was so great and so talented then why did the band decline rather than progress as he gained more control/influence.

Edited January 26, 2014 by foghat43

[Nosaj Thing]

He isn't one and never has been and, as far as i know has never claimed to be.

[GN'R Lies]

He isn't one and never has been and, as far as i know has never claimed to be.

People seem to be getting hung up on that word in particular. I was just trying to convey the idea that alot of people believe that Axl was somehow the mastermind, the driving force behind GnR...maybe he was...but my point was simply that if Axl was so great and so talented then why did the band decline rather than progress as he gained more control/influence.

In my opinion, Axl is great and very talented. He chose to take GN'R in a different musical direction which says to me he thought he/GN'R was more than what they were known for. To take that risk takes belief and guts as what they had was working big time.

Unfortunately to achieve this he put himself above everyone else in the band when it was the band as a collective that was genius.

In my opinion the effort should have been put in preserving that rather than creating something else, but at the same time it is Axl's life and if having complete musical autonomy and freedom to express himself was more important then what can you do?

[Mysteron]

He isn't one and never has been and, as far as i know has never claimed to be.

I was just trying to convey the idea that alot of people believe that Axl was somehow the mastermind, the driving force behind GnR...maybe he was...but my point was simply that if Axl was so great and so talented then why did the band decline rather than progress as he gained more control/influence.

Because GN'R is a band and not Axl. If you have a bunch of people with their heads elsewhere, then there is only so much Axl can do

Like I said, with UYI you had many heads stuck in a dead 1980s scene, and one head looking forward. UYI symbolised the odd mixture at the time.

After that, lots of members left, lots of members joined. There is a lot of legal crap when that happens, band members are not trained lawyers, they just do what they do, the band was a tied and damned venture for years afterwards.

You had the perfect scenario in the 80s with AFD. I think Axl with a perfect scenario in the future could still throw out there something to rattle your brains. It is just about circumstance really

[SR_GR]

It depends on the definition. If the only genius level persons we know of were persons

such as Da Vinci and Mozart, then maybe he is not a genius. If genius is someone who

has exceptional creative talent, then maybe. There are a lot people writing songs and

melodies, but how many of them are globally popular? Is it enough to be the best of

100 million in something or does one have to be the best of billion to be called a genius?

Many of the melodies on Chi Dem are beautiful, but many of the songs are also a tad dark

and even revengeful in their lyrics and style of production. For most people it is easier to

relate to songs which have a positive, humoristic or hopeful message such as “Imagine”

or all the love songs.

[classicrawker]

It depends on the definition. If the only genius level persons we know of were persons

such as Da Vinci and Mozart, then maybe he is not a genius. If genius is someone who

has exceptional creative talent, then maybe. There are a lot people writing songs and

melodies, but how many of them are globally popular? Is it enough to be the best of

100 million in something or does one have to be the best of billion to be called a genius?

Many of the melodies on Chi Dem are beautiful, but many of the songs are also a tad dark

and even revengeful in their lyrics and style of production. For most people it is easier to

relate to songs which have a positive, humoristic or hopeful message such as “Imagine”

or all the love songs.

AFD sold 28 million+ copies so people had no issue relating to Mr. Brownstone, Nighttrain, Out to Get Me, and Welcome to the Jungle which are hardly of positive , humoristic and hopeful songs.............if it is good music people will listen and buy it regardless of the theme.........

[bigcountry]

It depends on the definition. If the only genius level persons we know of were persons

such as Da Vinci and Mozart, then maybe he is not a genius. If genius is someone who

has exceptional creative talent, then maybe. There are a lot people writing songs and

melodies, but how many of them are globally popular? Is it enough to be the best of

100 million in something or does one have to be the best of billion to be called a genius?

Many of the melodies on Chi Dem are beautiful, but many of the songs are also a tad dark

and even revengeful in their lyrics and style of production. For most people it is easier to

relate to songs which have a positive, humoristic or hopeful message such as “Imagine”

or all the love songs.

AFD sold 28 million+ copies so people had no issue relating to Mr. Brownstone, Nighttrain, Out to Get Me, and Welcome to the Jungle which are hardly of positive , humoristic and hopeful songs.............if it is good music people will listen and buy it regardless of the theme.........

I am not saying AFD is a bad album, I think it is as close to a perfect album as ANY member of the old band will every achive, it just it's possible.

As fas as sales of 28 million+ that number is inflated due to when the album was released, we had Cassette tapes and records and the new media Compact Disc had yet to catch on but when it did catch fire it was just a few years after AFD release and they where still touring on it and with the media change to CD everyone loved it because of the better sound quality and unless you scratched it up it sounded the same as the day it was bought new years earlier. I also feels Lies was helped alot by the media change and UYI albums also did benefit too but not 2 the exstint of the first to albums.

But the above can be said for most bands in the late 80's early 90's.

I really think a more fair number of sales for AFD would be under 20 million because the media change I bet gave you another 10 million is sales.

AFD as much as we like it most people only liked SCOM, WTTJ and Paridise City and at that time if you have a one hit you your album would sell 5 or more Million copies because of one hit. I knew people and me included if they heard a song the like we bought the CD just for that song and people didn't care if there where any more goods songs on the album as long as the ONE they liked.

Folks that grow up in the late 80's and early 90's know exactly what I am talking about.

If you grow up in the napster era and the downloading of music have no clue as to how many Records, Cassettes and CD's we use to own. For what it is worth I feel the free downloading of music is what has killed the industry and by this I mean bands like Metallica, Bon Jove(can't believe I just typed that) Motley Crue and even the pretty much inactive GNR and the list go on but my point is the money isn't there for huge production in the studio or music videos one at best they might sell 3-4 million CD's but that is a far cry from the 10-15 million they would have sold in the 80's and 90's.

New band don't get the chance they did back then, if there first album flopped they usually got a 2nd or 3rd chance and then some of the bands had that brake through song. That will not happen now or close to 10 years ago. Your larger than life bands just do more touring becuase they can still pack the seats, Metallica is a perfect example of this, it has been what 5-6 years since death magnetic and they have been touring on and off ever since the release with NO signs of a new full length album are anywhere in the future. Because Records sales don't bring the money it is the touring and merchindise side that makes the money now.

I am going to take alot of flack for what I have said and what I am about to say........

We would be better off if it was always impossible to download music we would have more deversity and more bands that live the same story line as did our Metallica's, GNR's, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue ect..........

Edited January 27, 2014 by bigcountry

[SR_GR]

It depends on the definition. If the only genius level persons we know of were persons

such as Da Vinci and Mozart, then maybe he is not a genius. If genius is someone who

has exceptional creative talent, then maybe. There are a lot people writing songs and

melodies, but how many of them are globally popular? Is it enough to be the best of

100 million in something or does one have to be the best of billion to be called a genius?

Many of the melodies on Chi Dem are beautiful, but many of the songs are also a tad dark

and even revengeful in their lyrics and style of production. For most people it is easier to

relate to songs which have a positive, humoristic or hopeful message such as “Imagine”

or all the love songs.

AFD sold 28 million+ copies so people had no issue relating to Mr. Brownstone, Nighttrain, Out to Get Me, and Welcome to the Jungle which are hardly of positive , humoristic and hopeful songs.............if it is good music people will listen and buy it regardless of the theme.........

Exactly, there are many layers of humour in those songs: in Axl’s voice, lyrics and

the way the instruments are used. There is no way I could listen to "Out to Get Me"

with a serious face. And the most popular songs are love songs SCOM and NR.

If they get that humour back, success is inevitable.