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Something I don't feel the community respect enough


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Different degrees of bi polar and the cycles decrease with age. But still there can be triggers to go manic. So that's why they need to stay calm. There's also some sort of emotional thing where they can stay in a depressed state for long periods. Also the mania comes routinely at night.

I think in Axls case the rumor of it brings lawsuits. He's a target.

Someone I know is bi polar and after a few years of chaos he went on meds and now he's married with kids and has job at university. Off his meds his focus and work rate phenomenal and he's very smart like maths etc.

Stephen Fry is a celeb who chose to stay off meds as he thought it was part of his talent. He did a doc where he was crying for 2 days then suddenly bought two personal computers. He opened his garage and he had like 6 mountain bikes and 4 PCs.

Edited by wasted
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Different degrees of bi polar and the cycles decrease with age. But still there can be triggers to go manic. So that's why they need to stay calm. There's also some sort of emotional thing where they can stay in a depressed state for long periods. Also the mania comes routinely at night.

I think in Axls case the rumor of it brings lawsuits. He's a target.

Someone I know is bi polar and after a few years of chaos he went on meds and now he's married with kids and has job at university. Off his meds his focus and work rate phenomenal and he's very smart like maths etc.

Stephen Fry is a celeb who chose to stay off meds as he thought it was part of his talent. He did a doc where he was crying for 2 days then suddenly bought two personal computers. He opened his garage and he had like 6 mountain bikes and 4 PCs.

Your right about the mania at night thing.. I was in my late 30's when this hit. Night became my day. Anything I could get done was usally late night early moring. When I went out to eat or get grocerys it was always at night. When I would clean the house and it was full on full out spic and span clean, clothe washed and pressed , beds made dusting.. usually was all done in one night.

Edited by rockerman
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Would you consider yourself a manic-depressive?

I'm very sensitive and emotional, and things upset me and make me feel like not functioning or not dealing with people, the band or anything. I went to a clinic, thinking it would help my moods. The only thing I did was take one 500-question test - ya know, filling in the little black dots. All of sudden I'm diagnosed manic-depressive. "Let's put Axl on medication". Well, the medication doesn't help me deal with stress. The only thing it does is help keep people off my back because they figure I'm on medication.

- Axl

Edit: think this was his original remark, not sure....

it was lithium they put him on so he claims

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Axl doesn't work for you or have to do a goddamn thing you think, ever. He doesn't owe us anything either. Life doesn't owe you your own personal happy ending.

so when a artist does a concert, isn't he working for the fans? I mean, when someone charges you $100+ a ticket, he doesn't owe the fans anything? please, stop with your axl excuses, excuses, excuses -- if he wants to sit in his glass palace, that's one thing

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First of all, I will likely be ridiculed for attempting to initiate this discussion. Quite recently, I've been in a position to observe the effects of bi-polar/manic depressive states. I've had the fortune - in an intellectual sense - of seeing these conditions in action and how they affect people.

Before I talk about such states, I would first like to mention the stigma which surrounds such problems. When someone concedes that they are in fact suffering from bipolar, they are strangley discredited as people. They aren't 'normal, functioning' human beings anymore. They're privately regarded, for want of a better expression, as a bit cooky. For that reason, those in the public eye are extremely reluctant to talk about having a mental 'disorder' (disorder by the way, is a phrase they seriously need to review). I'm sure many of you are familiar with the recent revelations by Catherine Zeta Jones. After privately suffering for so long, she finally went public with her experiences. Some of you may also recall that Axl did the same thing (while simultaneously expressing the fear that many wouldn't take his story seriously). In case you didn't notice, it was largely met by the ignorant response of 'he's just a pussy and making excuses for being one'.

But onto the more pressing part of my post; and that is how bi-polar absolutely cripples the possibility of leading a routine life. From what I have seen, some days you feel like conquering the world. On such days the person becomes extremely animated, and they're bursting with an unappeasable sense of energy. Others you just can't face any simple action and would prefer to stay within the comfort of your home for days on end. In order to complete the most basic of tasks, you have to gear yourself up as if you were going out to fight 12 rounds with an in-prime Mike Tyson. As I said, it absolutely cripples the permanency of your emotions. It constantly alters how you feel abouts things. One day you may commit yourself to something, the next you're doing everything in your power to cancel such an arrangement. The person is overcome by an extremely illogical sense of dread. To the point that they just can't do it.

My point is, that maybe you shouldn't draw the conclusion that Axl is just a dickhead. That he gets some sort of cheap thrill out of disappointing his fans. Maybe when he's late for a show, or seemingly losing spirit, you should consider the things he talked about as early as 1993. Everyone sees their favourite rockstar as immortal, it's inconcievable that they might be privately dealing with something.

Absolutely, well said. Thank you so much for this topic, its one that's been long overdue. More topics like this would be very productive for GNR community. :thumbsup::headbang:

As you have observed, I too have observed that Axl has addressed this long ago, in public interviews, way back in '93. Axl has explained MANY things long ago. But, do people really 'Listen'?

If they did, we'd hear much less garbage talk being said about Axl. But all too often even some "fans" Don't hear Axl out before they condemn. When Axl tries to explain things, and people still condemn him, he gets understandably discouraged, and its small wonder Axl doesn't want to talk much or explain things anymore! If people are biased, why should he talk?

And as you have stated, any mental illness is not easy for people to admit due to stigma, especially if people are not understanding.

There has to be the willingness to hear him, open-minded, or at least fair, or it won't matter what he says. Its so unfair, how Axl's been treated. And beyond that, for those that bother to even half listen to Axl, there's often great ignorance about mental illness.

People who are healthy have a very hard time understanding mental illness. They don't get how somebody can be physically capable, but yet still unable to function physically. But its really true, the mind controls the body mentally and physically. If the mind feels bad, has chemical imbalance, so will the body, literally. The pain of depression is indescribable, and unimaginable, and hard to understand to most people. And depression is very debilitating. With All Axl's been through, its good he's kept going.Amazing that he has kept going on, for the fans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Z9prj0i9g

And its interesting that somebody mentioned Scott Weiland, for those that like jump on the blame Axl for everything bandwagon, including with the old GNR lineup, Weiland defended Axl,

http://www.antimusic.com/news/08/may/10Weiland_Defends_Axl.shtml

Would you consider yourself a manic-depressive?

I'm very sensitive and emotional, and things upset me and make me feel like not functioning or not dealing with people, the band or anything. I went to a clinic, thinking it would help my moods. The only thing I did was take one 500-question test - ya know, filling in the little black dots. All of sudden I'm diagnosed manic-depressive. "Let's put Axl on medication". Well, the medication doesn't help me deal with stress. The only thing it does is help keep people off my back because they figure I'm on medication.

- Axl

Edit: think this was his original remark, not sure....

it was lithium they put him on so he claims

"So he claims?" Are you suggesting he lied? Why be so cynical of AXl anyway??? And for the record, he WAS on lithium. This is exactly why Axl has been so reluctant to speak :max:

Edited by truadmirer
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I like this topic. I agree that there's a huge stigma against mental illness, and that coming forward about it is a huge step for anyone.

Having said that: I have a close relative who is bipolar. There are things in him that remind me a lot of what we have heard about Axl: the extreme mood swings, the violence, the sense that everyone is out to get him. My uncle has all of that. He takes any little slight as a personal affront, and imagines hostility in people where there is none. He also can turn violent at the drop of a hat, and he's sunk into very depressed states. He has tried to hurt himself and has hurt others. And dwelling on things? He will call me out for things I did when I was 5 years old (and I'm in my 30s now).

I have no doubt - none at all - that my bipolar uncle sees the world very differently than I do. He's actually asked flat out why people don't like him, and he's been sincere in his question. He doesn't understand that not everyone sees things the way he does.

Having said that? He can still be a major dickhead, and it has nothing to do with his illness. In fact he sometimes uses it to his advantage and is very manipulative. He knows that people walk on eggshells around him because they're afraid of him. He uses that to his advantage...oh, don't ask uncle to do ____ or take care of this or he'll go nuts again. I can remember one incident where he tried to hit me, and then turned it around and told my parents I provoked him and made him mad by calling him 'crazy' (I hadn't).

One other thing? Bipolar people aren't totally out of touch and they can and do function in the real world. Said uncle is a pharmacist. Yup. Dude got through University, graduated, got through pharmacy school, passed the state boards with good marks and has the right to work with drugs. And he's good at his job. He doesn't act up and he's never been in trouble at work. Ever. And that's because it was set out, very clearly, what the rules were and that he needed to follow them if he wanted to keep his job and his license. He's been depressed at times and has had to take medical leaves, but he's always been able to go back to work.

Plus? Whether a bipolar person hurts someone because his brain is firing differently or because he's being an asshole - he's still hurt them. And with an adult, while I might consider the BPD to be a mitigating factor, it doesn't take away that victim's injuries. So when, say, Axl doesn't show up for a show until midnight, whether his BPD is cratering or he just couldn't be bothered getting his ass out there, it has the same effect for the people in the audience - they're screwed over.

Soooo...can Axl help the way he processes things? No. If you're bipolar that doesn't go away. Can he improve his conduct? Yeah. I think so. With something like the lateness, he genuinely might be confused as to why it bothers anyone, since he's in his own head and it's all about him. He might not understand why it's an issue to book tours last minute, since Guns N' Roses is his only job, unlike his bandmates. But by this point it's been explained to him over and over again why it's an issue for others and if he wanted to operate within those parameters he probably could (as he did at the Vegas residency). Point being that while one can understand and have compassion for his illness, it doesn't excuse his conduct. Just my two cents there.

Edited by stella
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There is nothing wrong with being on meds for any kind of mental illness. None.

I honestly think if it wasn't for antidepressants,I would not be alive. I have never attempted suicide or anything. But if not for meds,I feel that I would have withdrawn myself from the world so bad. That I would have just shriveled up and died.

The mind can only handle so much depression,things that happened throughout your life. Going through things at a young age. And dealing with those things and trying your damnedest to wrap your head around it. Wondering why me?

And I have never been physically/sexually abused. Emotionally yes. But I have had physical stuff happen to me health wise. Like breast cancer at the age if 23. Major surgery at 4yrs old for a bone disease. Among other health stuff. It's hard to live life ,when society is so judgmental image wise. When your body looks like a patchwork quilt.

All of that on top of abandonment issues. I just don't think I could do it without meds.And even with them I have my days of withdrawing from the outside world. Like the past several days,I just didn't feel like facing the world. But today,today was a fucking good day :)

And sometimes you just have to face life and accept the thing you can not change.

Edited by SweetRose
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I think Axl said in the chats that he is not bi~ polar, and that the interviewer (from RS) took what he was saying as him saying or suggesting he is. The media just ran with it as his excuse for being the bad boy.

I think he's got something going on. He seems to be super sensitive and gets set off at things that we might consider trivial.

The story from Slash's book comes to mind about him jumping out of the car at 40mph because Slash wanted him to appologise to his grandmother for telling her to fuck off. The Chicago incident as well, when he went into a rage at those two girls. Fucked up.

Its all part of why I like the guy and his music. The anger and rage coupled with his nice side makes him a very charasmatic person. I hope he figures it out or maybe he has.

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There is nothing wrong with being on meds for any kind of mental illness. None.

I honestly think if it wasn't for antidepressants,I would not be alive. I have never attempted suicide or anything. But if not for meds,I feel that I would have withdrawn myself from the world so bad. That I would have just shriveled up and died.

The mind can only handle so much depression,things that happened throughout your life. Going through things at a young age. And dealing with those things and trying your damnedest to wrap your head around it. Wondering why me?

And I have never been physically/sexually abused. Emotionally yes. But I have had physical stuff happen to me health wise. Like breast cancer at the age if 23. Major surgery at 4yrs old for a bone disease. Among other health stuff. It's hard to live life ,when society is so judgmental image wise. When your body looks like a patchwork quilt.

All of that on top of abandonment issues. I just don't think I could do it without meds.And even with them I have my days of withdrawing from the outside world. Like the past several days,I just didn't feel like facing the world. But today,today was a fucking good day :)

And sometimes you just have to face life and accept the thing you can not change.

Very insightful and accurate. For an example of the stigma and nonacceptance of this disorder just look at some of the responses in this very thread.

Edited by civilwar1978
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There is nothing wrong with being on meds for any kind of mental illness. None.

I honestly think if it wasn't for antidepressants,I would not be alive. I have never attempted suicide or anything. But if not for meds,I feel that I would have withdrawn myself from the world so bad. That I would have just shriveled up and died.

The mind can only handle so much depression,things that happened throughout your life. Going through things at a young age. And dealing with those things and trying your damnedest to wrap your head around it. Wondering why me?

And I have never been physically/sexually abused. Emotionally yes. But I have had physical stuff happen to me health wise. Like breast cancer at the age if 23. Major surgery at 4yrs old for a bone disease. Among other health stuff. It's hard to live life ,when society is so judgmental image wise. When your body looks like a patchwork quilt.

All of that on top of abandonment issues. I just don't think I could do it without meds.And even with them I have my days of withdrawing from the outside world. Like the past several days,I just didn't feel like facing the world. But today,today was a fucking good day :)

And sometimes you just have to face life and accept the thing you can not change.

Very insightful and accurate. For an example of the stigma and nonacceptance of this disorder just look at some of the responses in this very thread.

Exactly. A shame so much ignorance! And the excuse that one person's with same illness might act a little differently just doesn't fly. Its an excuse, so people can perpetually blame Axl for everything even when it completely makes no sense. People who have the same illness don't respond to it exactly the same, because everybody's body is affected differently. Two people could have the flu, and their bodies respond totally different to it. That's also a very callous misconception often made about illness, that people can perform around it.

Everybody has different personalities. While some people may take advantage, others do not.

Axl, for one, has never used his depression as a crutch, or to manipulate sympathy from people. Axl has never asked for any sympathy, even when he should have.

In fact, Axl has been described as very sweet, fun loving, great sense of humor, down to earth, very loving and caring personality by everybody who knows him. Even his ex-bandmembers spoke well of him. In fact, they have even described Axl as the MOST loving person you could meet :) ! Broke Axl rescuing Slash from prison comes to mind. And Axl's a very honest guy. His general personality is very distinct from his depressive episodes.

Additionally, stress greatly aggravates depression, and makes the symptoms worse. Its no coincidence he gets worse before shows, and at times of great stress. Performing a show for tens of thousands of people would be stressful and near impossible even for the most healthy of persons!

Entertaining as a Frontman is a MUCH more stressful job than most ordinary occupations. And for Axl to be so Great at it too, the best, he raised the bar so high, even for himself. He's admitted that he knows when he's not feeling well, he can't give a good show. He just doesn't want the fans to get a bad performance. Some people like quality over quantity.

To make up for the lateness at shows, he plays extra long, to show the fans he cares and appreciates them, and wasn't just taking advantage of them. And he performs so well that everybody feels they got much more than their money's worth. There's no way a person can walk away from one of Axl's outstanding, physically and mentally demanding performances, and say he doesn't care about his fans!

As for depression, there are times when a person can be completely immobile for days, not to get out of bed or even eat for themselves! Axl has said that this has happened to him too.

And no, the consequences are not the same. It makes ALL the DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD if a healthy individual keeps you waiting, from somebody with depression, broken limbs, or some other debilitating condition.

Edited by truadmirer
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I can understand him being a "hermit" with so many obsessed/psychotic fans out there.

Axl just cops a lot of shit on the forums because for whatever reason there has been one album in nearly 20 years and other disasters along the way.

I'm sure there would be a lot more positivity from the online community if he put albums out more often than he does.

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I can understand him being a "hermit" with so many obsessed/psychotic fans out there.

Axl just cops a lot of shit on the forums because for whatever reason there has been one album in nearly 20 years and other disasters along the way.

I'm sure there would be a lot more positivity from the online community if he put albums out more often than he does.

Yes, we'd like more material, but one hand washes the other.

For a person with an illness like depression, or obesity, for example, the worst thing you can do is be negative and beat them up about it. It will only make them retreat further into their shell and become less productive. That's why we have to understand depression, why its so important. Such becomes a negative, destructive cycle. We know Axl has a condition. He's already down and depressed. If we were to give Axl positive reinforcement, Love, support him, let him know we get it (understand what he's said all these years), show him appreciation, stop blaming him for EVERYTHING,and being so negative towards him, just watch how much more we could get out of him!! Like a water starved flower in the desert, suddenly springing to life with water! He'd have more confidence and it would show in his work. He'd probably even do more interviews, other interactions, etc. Who could function with such negativity? Especially if already depressed. Anyway, Axl deserves our Love and appreciation. What he is and what he means to us, is forever irreplaceable by anyone. Axl really cares about his fans, he cares, and what they say greatly affects him.

Edited by truadmirer
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I can understand him being a "hermit" with so many obsessed/psychotic fans out there.

Axl just cops a lot of shit on the forums because for whatever reason there has been one album in nearly 20 years and other disasters along the way.

I'm sure there would be a lot more positivity from the online community if he put albums out more often than he does.

I´m afraid you´re missing the point. Axl talked about his problems long before the internet and forums. Axl knows he has a problems. With the kind of childhood he had his problems are something to be expected. However I believe he didn´t follow the right advice and path in order to fix them. For example Axl believes in past life. He is not the only person on earth who believe in such a thing, fair enough. But he also believed his wife killed his children in that past life. Come on! He paid a lot of money for ar exorcism. WTF??? He takes black and white pictures of people around him. He takes those pics to some kind of santuary in Arizona. So Yoda can tell him if those people are good or bad influence for him. All this bizare stuff won´t help him to deal with his problems. It really sounds like the movie Vertigo

Axl is a guy who can pay the best doctors in the world. He can afford to check himself in the best hospitals in the world. He might need therapy and treatment for the rest of his life. Mental issues are complex in most cases. It´s not like a pill in the morning would be the solution. He doesn´t seem to take his issues seriously enough.

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I can understand him being a "hermit" with so many obsessed/psychotic fans out there.

Axl just cops a lot of shit on the forums because for whatever reason there has been one album in nearly 20 years and other disasters along the way.

I'm sure there would be a lot more positivity from the online community if he put albums out more often than he does.

I´m afraid you´re missing the point. Axl talked about his problems long before the internet and forums [\Quote]

Actually you are missing the point

. Axl knows he has a problems. With the kind of childhood he had his problems are something to be expected. However I believe he didn´t follow the right advice and path in order to fix them.

Treatment for an effective disorder can vary greatly from person to person and in intensity and duration. It is trial and error until something clicks, if it ever does

For example Axl believes in past life. He is not the only person on earth who believe in such a thing, fair enough. But he also believed his wife killed his children in that past life. Come on! He paid a lot of money for ar exorcism. WTF??? He takes black and white pictures of people around him. He takes those pics to some kind of santuary in Arizona. So Yoda can tell him if those people are good or bad influence for him. All this bizare stuff won´t help him to deal with his problems. It really sounds like the movie Vertigo [\Quote]

You are simply repeating past supposed incidents that have run their course or were never valid in the first place.

Axl is a guy who can pay the best doctors in the world. He can afford to check himself in the best hospitals in the world. He might need therapy and treatment for the rest of his life. Mental issues are complex in most cases. It´s not like a pill in the morning would be the solution. He doesn´t seem to take his issues seriously enough.[\Quote]

The role medication and therapy play in treatment can vary. It is also important to maintain a positive mindset and not engage in situations that have proven detrimental to the condition.

To attempt to diagnose or discuss a diagnosis via third party misinformation on the internet is in no way based in reality.

Edited by civilwar1978
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I can understand him being a "hermit" with so many obsessed/psychotic fans out there.

Axl just cops a lot of shit on the forums because for whatever reason there has been one album in nearly 20 years and other disasters along the way.

I'm sure there would be a lot more positivity from the online community if he put albums out more often than he does.

I´m afraid you´re missing the point. Axl talked about his problems long before the internet and forums. Axl knows he has a problems. With the kind of childhood he had his problems are something to be expected. However I believe he didn´t follow the right advice and path in order to fix them. For example Axl believes in past life. He is not the only person on earth who believe in such a thing, fair enough. But he also believed his wife killed his children in that past life. Come on! He paid a lot of money for ar exorcism. WTF??? He takes black and white pictures of people around him. He takes those pics to some kind of santuary in Arizona. So Yoda can tell him if those people are good or bad influence for him. All this bizare stuff won´t help him to deal with his problems. It really sounds like the movie Vertigo

Axl is a guy who can pay the best doctors in the world. He can afford to check himself in the best hospitals in the world. He might need therapy and treatment for the rest of his life. Mental issues are complex in most cases. It´s not like a pill in the morning would be the solution. He doesn´t seem to take his issues seriously enough.

My comment was addressing the "LEAVE AXL ALONE!" element.

It's hard to be a fan of Axl's GNR when it's one disaster after another and you have one album in 20 years, greatest hits tours and next to no communication on where they are at with another album.

I sympathise with whatever issues the guy has, but the GNR name is a double edged mantle-do something with it or don't be surprised when people complain...a good chunk of us don't want to be complaining...new album, basically.

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I can understand him being a "hermit" with so many obsessed/psychotic fans out there.

Axl just cops a lot of shit on the forums because for whatever reason there has been one album in nearly 20 years and other disasters along the way.

I'm sure there would be a lot more positivity from the online community if he put albums out more often than he does.

I´m afraid you´re missing the point. Axl talked about his problems long before the internet and forums. Axl knows he has a problems. With the kind of childhood he had his problems are something to be expected. However I believe he didn´t follow the right advice and path in order to fix them. For example Axl believes in past life. He is not the only person on earth who believe in such a thing, fair enough. But he also believed his wife killed his children in that past life. Come on! He paid a lot of money for ar exorcism. WTF??? He takes black and white pictures of people around him. He takes those pics to some kind of santuary in Arizona. So Yoda can tell him if those people are good or bad influence for him. All this bizare stuff won´t help him to deal with his problems. It really sounds like the movie Vertigo

Axl is a guy who can pay the best doctors in the world. He can afford to check himself in the best hospitals in the world. He might need therapy and treatment for the rest of his life. Mental issues are complex in most cases. It´s not like a pill in the morning would be the solution. He doesn´t seem to take his issues seriously enough.

My comment was addressing the "LEAVE AXL ALONE!" element.

It's hard to be a fan of Axl's GNR when it's one disaster after another and you have one album in 20 years, greatest hits tours and next to no communication on where they are at with another album.

I sympathise with whatever issues the guy has, but the GNR name is a double edged mantle-do something with it or don't be surprised when people complain...a good chunk of us don't want to be complaining...new album, basically.

To be honest, nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to be a fan. That is a choice you made, and make each day. If the negatives outweigh the positives in your mind, you have the option of taking your attention and said fanhood elsewhere.

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Nah Axl is fine. He might be on meds for minor things but he's a different person now than in 93.

Ive worked with people that stress out when things go wrong in a room full of people. Axl stresses out when theres 12,000 people in a room. His job is to entertain and he can't do that with sound problems of being distracted by crowds fighting.

The whole going on stage late is an act. Keeps him a bad ass rock star, keeps people talking about him and gnr. He goes on usually the same time anyway.

Obviously he's lived a very privilledged life for the last 26 years. He doesn't live like the rest of the band in there apartments or any of us. I can't see axl walking around with a shopping trolly at the local super market and being structured to reguler 5 day job. He has a boat load of cash like every other celeb and is used to the lifestyle abd ego that comes with that.

Since you have to pay for drugs and treatment in america, doctors will diagnose you with anything yoy want them too it seems. It's a money making business after all.

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I just think Axl is old and probably lost the passion he use to have. He gets it every once in a while but not like the old days where he just looked hungry to make music even if it took him forever to make some.

Seriously back in early 00s or mid he looked prime for a comeback of sorts, similar to how U2 did there's with a "beautiful day" but now he really just looks old and acts like he's not interested anymore.

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I'm surprised by the mature way in which we've all handled this discussion, keep it going guys. It's useful to hear all of your personal perspectives and how you've related to aspects of Axl's decision-making.

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It simply can't enter into my equations that Axl has some sort of completely disabling mental condition that I should now feel sorry for and excuse him for all his misgivings because of this condition.

GNR made it through an intense gutter run during the early days. Can't you all remember? If Axl was manic-depressive to the point I'm now supposed to believe he is, the band would have never made it to the point of recording even a demo.

History proves he can function beyond the crippled state of a person suffering from a serious manic depressive disorder.

So fuck this.

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