foghat43 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 When Zeppelin got together for the Celebration Day concert, the band was required to “tune down a step” to better accommodate Plant’s aging voice. Now I’m not a musician so I don’t fully understand what it means that the band "tuned down a step" (maybe the musicians on the board can elaborate on that), but it seemed to work for the most part when Zep did it. Would something similar work for Guns? As Axl’s voice has and will continue to deteriorate (which is normal and unavoidable as one ages) do you see Gun’s new music being created with this in mind, and are there ways in which the already existing music might be tweaked when played live to better accommodate Axl’s vocals (at least at those times when he seems to be struggling to hit some of the notes)? Is the band already doing this and I just haven’t noticed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bacardimayne Posted February 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 12, 2014 Axl can still hit the notes, he just has no power in his voice and he can't hold the notes. Downtuning wouldn't help with that. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Axl can still hit the notes, he just has no power in his voice and he can't hold the notes. Downtuning wouldn't help with that. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saber_ Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 His vocal chords are like a prius nowadays, whereas in the old days it was a harley. (exception in 2010: that was different, that was like a crotch-rocket versus a Harley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfuckinga Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 His vocal chords are like a prius nowadays, whereas in the old days it was a harley. (exception in 2010: that was different, that was like a crotch-rocket versus a Harley)what would you call 06 and 07 then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saber_ Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I dunno, I'm running out of vehicle metaphors fast. Dublin 2010 reigns supreme. Edited February 12, 2014 by metaforcesaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncivil war Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Most GNR songs are already tuned down a half-step. Means instead of a note being "e" it's actually "e flat" (as an example). The more down tuned a guitar is, it can change a sound of a song quite a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jay Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It's already tuned down. Jungle don't need to be tuned down a whole step. D# is fine, even for Axl nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Axl still has his range, no problem. It helps that GN'R has tuned down a half step from the beginning though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake-Pit Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I know that in my heart of hearts Guns N' Roses/Sweet Child O' Mine's in Eb, tuned half a step down from E, or is it?I've found that moving a whole fret up (how one achieve's the transition from Eb to E) gets me playing Sweet Child O' Mine... It's like I know the song, what I knew was okay, move it up a fret and I'm playing it...Or maybe it was just a backing track in E instead of Eb?I forget right now but I was wondering about this last week. Edited February 12, 2014 by Snake-Pit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 A tone and a half down would make the songs sound very sludgy. a better option is to transpose the songs into a different key without down tuning. As a few of you said, Axl still hits the high notes - that's not the issue, like it was for Robert during celebration day. The only solution is practice, if you're an athlete and you neglect your training your endurance will suffer, you won't run as far or fast as you usually can, that applies to musicians too. If a guitar player decides to not play for a full summer, when he comes back he's going to be rusty, he'll play like crap and it will likely take him the guts of the 3 months he took off to get back to where he was. Axl needs to practice more, simple as, maybe in his youth it was easy for him to fit right in with the band, but when you age (especially as a vocalist) you have to work a lot harder for the same results. Train, get his physical shape in good order... no room for huge bellies. Eat right, sleep right. Work with a vocal coach, even the best musicians still take lessons, Axl could do with learning how to control his voice (know some of you think he can now, but the evidence is overwhelming that he can't... explaining why he's so hit and miss), singing with grit is something you can train yourself to do and doing it properly will not hurt your vocal chords. Look at Corey taylor he has screamed his head off for the better part of 20yrs yet he can still sing rough and clean whenever he wants, why? he works on it and gets lessons. Tuning down will not help with being breathless either.Tuning down would be a cop out for a 52yr old Axl rose, maybe at 60 we can talk. For now if he just did a few of the things I mentioned he would perform much, much better. Also, the songs would likely be too low for Axl, even with that baritone voice of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlashisGOD Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I know that in my heart of hearts Guns N' Roses/Sweet Child O' Mine's in Eb, tuned half a step down from E, or is it?I've found that moving a whole fret up (how one achieve's the transition from Eb to E) gets me playing Sweet Child O' Mine... It's like I know the song, what I knew was okay, move it up a fret and I'm playing it...Or maybe it was just a backing track in E instead of Eb?I forget right now but I was wondering about this last week.Appetite is in Eb so you are correct. I play in standard and when I play GN'R songs it sounds ever so slightly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I know that in my heart of hearts Guns N' Roses/Sweet Child O' Mine's in Eb, tuned half a step down from E, or is it?I've found that moving a whole fret up (how one achieve's the transition from Eb to E) gets me playing Sweet Child O' Mine... It's like I know the song, what I knew was okay, move it up a fret and I'm playing it...Or maybe it was just a backing track in E instead of Eb?I forget right now but I was wondering about this last week.It is, original song recorded in Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb tuning, first note of the song Db, key of song being Db. There's a few standard tuning Sweet child backing tracks (quite handy) on line so I expect that's what you encountered. Hope that helped! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt13 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 When Zeppelin got together for the Celebration Day concert, the band was required to “tune down a step” to better accommodate Plant’s aging voice. Now I’m not a musician so I don’t fully understand what it means that the band "tuned down a step" (maybe the musicians on the board can elaborate on that), but it seemed to work for the most part when Zep did it. Would something similar work for Guns? As Axl’s voice has and will continue to deteriorate (which is normal and unavoidable as one ages) do you see Gun’s new music being created with this in mind, and are there ways in which the already existing music might be tweaked when played live to better accommodate Axl’s vocals (at least at those times when he seems to be struggling to hit some of the notes)? Is the band already doing this and I just haven’t noticed? Voices deteriorate as one ages? Do you have medical evidence of this? Can you cite any sources? Just curious. Whenever I hear Steven Tyler, Mick Jagger, David Gilmour, Roger Waters, Sting, Steve Nash, Paul McCartney, David Bowie and a host of other artists well into their 60's (and some even 70's), they all sound better than ever. Do you think it really has to do with age, or the fact that people who don't exercise their voice when their living is singing? I think some people just 'have it' and could walk out on stage. Others work hard staying at the top of their game. Axl's never given a reason for why he sounds like Mickey Mouse often nowadays. So until he does, I'm attributing it to LAZINESS and NOT CARING. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncivil war Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I know that in my heart of hearts Guns N' Roses/Sweet Child O' Mine's in Eb, tuned half a step down from E, or is it?I've found that moving a whole fret up (how one achieve's the transition from Eb to E) gets me playing Sweet Child O' Mine... It's like I know the song, what I knew was okay, move it up a fret and I'm playing it...Or maybe it was just a backing track in E instead of Eb?I forget right now but I was wondering about this last week.It is, original song recorded in Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb tuning, first note of the song Db, key of song being Db. There's a few standard tuning Sweet child backing tracks (quite handy) on line so I expect that's what you encountered. Hope that helped!When you play the intro to Sweet Child in standard tuning, it just doesn't sound quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I've always thought Paradise City sounded better in standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Maybe if they tuned down to Bb he could reach all the notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman_1985 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I remember Pavarotti saying his voice didn't deteriorate as he got older, it just took him longer to recover from performances and if you know anything about opera that style takes the human voice to its' absolute limit. Of course screaming is a whole other kettle of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvH Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Stop giving Axl excuses to prevent from retiring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcano62 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I know that in my heart of hearts Guns N' Roses/Sweet Child O' Mine's in Eb, tuned half a step down from E, or is it?I've found that moving a whole fret up (how one achieve's the transition from Eb to E) gets me playing Sweet Child O' Mine... It's like I know the song, what I knew was okay, move it up a fret and I'm playing it...Or maybe it was just a backing track in E instead of Eb?I forget right now but I was wondering about this last week.A lot of backing tracks are in E.All GNR albums are recorded in Eb except some tunes on CD that are E standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanudo19 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 When Zeppelin got together for the Celebration Day concert, the band was required to “tune down a step” to better accommodate Plant’s aging voice. Now I’m not a musician so I don’t fully understand what it means that the band "tuned down a step" (maybe the musicians on the board can elaborate on that), but it seemed to work for the most part when Zep did it. Would something similar work for Guns? As Axl’s voice has and will continue to deteriorate (which is normal and unavoidable as one ages) do you see Gun’s new music being created with this in mind, and are there ways in which the already existing music might be tweaked when played live to better accommodate Axl’s vocals (at least at those times when he seems to be struggling to hit some of the notes)? Is the band already doing this and I just haven’t noticed? Voices deteriorate as one ages? Do you have medical evidence of this? Can you cite any sources? Just curious. Whenever I hear Steven Tyler, Mick Jagger, David Gilmour, Roger Waters, Sting, Steve Nash, Paul McCartney, David Bowie and a host of other artists well into their 60's (and some even 70's), they all sound better than ever. Do you think it really has to do with age, or the fact that people who don't exercise their voice when their living is singing? I think some people just 'have it' and could walk out on stage. Others work hard staying at the top of their game. Axl's never given a reason for why he sounds like Mickey Mouse often nowadays. So until he does, I'm attributing it to LAZINESS and NOT CARING. wtf...so when you hear those guys you can't hear that they're voices have indeed deteriorated with age ? They might sound good but the voice is nothing like when they were young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarstruck Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I know that in my heart of hearts Guns N' Roses/Sweet Child O' Mine's in Eb, tuned half a step down from E, or is it?I've found that moving a whole fret up (how one achieve's the transition from Eb to E) gets me playing Sweet Child O' Mine... It's like I know the song, what I knew was okay, move it up a fret and I'm playing it...Or maybe it was just a backing track in E instead of Eb?I forget right now but I was wondering about this last week.A lot of backing tracks are in E.All GNR albums are recorded in Eb except some tunes on CD that are E standard.Some CD tunes are tuned down to B also. Such as Shackler's, ITW, and Scraped. And Better is C# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcano62 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I know that in my heart of hearts Guns N' Roses/Sweet Child O' Mine's in Eb, tuned half a step down from E, or is it?I've found that moving a whole fret up (how one achieve's the transition from Eb to E) gets me playing Sweet Child O' Mine... It's like I know the song, what I knew was okay, move it up a fret and I'm playing it...Or maybe it was just a backing track in E instead of Eb?I forget right now but I was wondering about this last week.A lot of backing tracks are in E.All GNR albums are recorded in Eb except some tunes on CD that are E standard.Some CD tunes are tuned down to B also. Such as Shackler's, ITW, and Scraped. And Better is C#Yeah. Wonder why they make it so complicated!! I guess it don't matter when you own a gazillion guitars tuned differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I dunno how yous can tell this tuning shit, it's my lack of ability to get my head around that shit thats prevented me from being able to really play the gee-tarr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlashisGOD Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Has to do with knowing by ear for one, also you can ask the musicians themselves. Slash tunes to Eb on most everything he does if I'm not mistaken. If I play Jungle or Don't Damn Me for example in standard, it sounds slightly different than tuning to Eb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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