It should have gone this way

[PirateRadio]

In 1998 Axl should have taken the songs he had and dropped two albums by 2002 under a new title and band name with the guys that he was collaborating with at the time....touring, promoting, the whole deal. Then, between 2003-2005, kissed and madeup and written with Slash, Izzy, Duff to record and release a Guns N Roses album...call it Chinese Democracy, if he could convince the other guys. Guns could have toured that record for 1 or 2 years. Huge. When they couldn't stand each any longer, Axl could go back to the 1999-2002 guys and record and release stuff. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this besides Fink because of his membership in NIN. Velvet Revolver was no reason at all for Slash and Duff to not make a record with Axl Rose. Those guys know talent and who's the best. They know it's Axl.

Axl would have put out 4 or 5 records instead of just ONE. The songs with Bucket, Brain, Fink would have sounded cool and unique, and other songs like The Blues and Catcher would have reminded everybody of classic UYI Guns. Tobias seems to be the one that held this together and was able to bridge the gap between the various styles. All of the songs would have been much more accepted under a different band name. And a true cult following could have taken place. The current Chinese Democracy following, I think is just as confused about it as I am. Is it Guns?...Is it not Guns?.... It's not, so I hate. It is but it doesn't feel right at all....

In 2005, the 6th Guns N' Roses album would have been the triumphet return of the old band and the accompanying tour would have included the old hits as well as plenty of soon to be beloved new Guns tracks. I mean how hard is it to sit down with a group of peole and agree to make millions of dollars. If you're gonna tell me that all this didn't happen because of musical differences and personal gripes, then whatever. Where's Axl's music that should have happened when he escaped the repressive old Gunners...? It's all on Chinese Democracy and supposedly in his vault. Whatever. 21 years after TSI.... Give me a break. One record under the name Guns N' Roses, and most fans think that it's really weird.

[Nosaj Thing]

Yes, but it isn't 1998 anymore and there's nothing we can fuckin' do about it. Axl has had countless opportunities to make his band relevant again but it's a fuck up after a fuck up. From not releasing any new music to sounding like utter shit.

I mean, the way this band operates is... weird, right? In all honesty, Axl shouldn't release an album for me, I'm not expecting one and I couldn't care less about that but what about his fans? People who love him and want to enjoy his music? People who are waiting for something new to listen to? People that want Axl to sound great with that fire he used to have? They basically get the middle finger from him and his team again, again and again.

It's nice to have these "what ifs, must haves, should haves, could haves, would haves" threads from time to time but, come on - nothing's gonna change until Axl starts giving a fuck.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Nosaj Thing

[SlashisGOD]

This all goes back to 1997/98 when Axl released Oh My God. The album was going to be in that style. Then, supposedly because of backlash against that style, he scraps the whole thing and makes the record a more traditional rock album, as seen from early live songs like The Blues. He still keeps some of the late 90s style though, as evidenced from Silkworms (crap). I'd like to hear the industrial version of CD, though not as a Guns album cause it ain't one, but more out of curiosity. Now, while he is still working on the "Zeppelin meets NIN" album, he manages to craft some good songs like CITR and I.R.S., which sound more like old Guns. This period is actually the most fascinating for me because of all the rumours, song titles, and little info that existed. It took on a life of its own.

Nowadays, I don't think it really matters anymore. I'm pretty sure the only way we'll hear "new" music is when Axl kicks the bucket, and even then, Beta probably wouldn't allow it. Such a strange trip this GN'R thing is.

[foghat43]

Or maybe this is how it should have gone down...Axl gets over his fascination with NIN/Elton John and creates some more badass "Zeppelin/Stones meets Sex Pistols" rock albums with Slash??

[PirateRadio]

Oh, it definitely doesn't matter any more. That's for damn sure. Since this GNR is so "weird", the only thing that could save it would be if there was a reunion and they all looked and sounded great...on a new album and tour. The chances of that happening are fading tremendously with each passing year. It's basically impossible, but that word is dumb.

The GNR with it's current and/or future new members is going to get crappier and crappier. Even though music sucks today, I hope that if a similar scenario ever happens in the future, musicians will learn from the mess that is Gun N' Roses, and come up with a much better plan...like what's in the OP.

[SlashisGOD]

The GNR with it's current and/or future new members is going to get crappier and crappier. Even though music sucks today, I hope that if a similar scenario ever happens in the future, musicians will learn from the mess that is Gun N' Roses, and come up with a much better plan...like what's in the OP.

Pretty much this. GN'R is one big lesson on how bands should not operate. It's a shame it ever got this far. We could be talking about all the great Guns albums that came out after UYI.

[dalsh327]

The timing of Geffen cashing in his chips and Axl starting work on "Chinese Democracy" was a recipe for disaster.

It sounded like Robin and Brain have an open door with GNR as far as session work goes. I also wouldn't rule out Duff and Izzy contributing, but I do think we'll get some new songs if we don't get a new album before the year's over. They might be cover songs. They might be originals, it's likely going to involve a TV show or a movie, but Axl knows it's time to put something new out there and see what happens.

[Intercourse]

Axl should have kept the GNR day job and released his own cinematic tunes himself.

He could have had the best of both worlds but he was greedy and wanted it all.

He got it all and.....

[wasted]

I guess he couldn't make the cinematic stuff without the GNR money. Stuff like TWAT must have taken five years to finish.

[DR DOOM]

I guess he couldn't make the cinematic stuff without the GNR money. Stuff like TWAT must have taken five years to finish.

Well the 99 demo of TWAT is pretty much what made the album, minus Bucket's solo- which I'd wager he came up with and nailed in a day.

Some dumb shit got tacked on in the years following that did nothing for the song.

So I'd strongly disagree with you there.

[wasted]

The album version was re-recorded by RTB in 2000? All 30 songs or something. When was the choir added, then Beltrami worked on it. I'm not sure if the demo has all the low voice Long Times.

Beltrami worked on TWAT, SOD, Madagascar, Prostitute in 2002. So from 99 that 4 years

At the same time he also did Seven, Leave Me Alone, Thyme, The General. That costs money and time.

But they also wasted a lot of money on just paying studio staff too much or blocking out studio time.

The above 4 songs really make the next record seem more substantial.

Edited February 21, 2014 by wasted

[DR DOOM]

Dunno man, you're more than likely right but the 99 demo sounds pretty much the same with a bunch of shit tacked onto it.

I doubt any of that stuff took 5 years, really.

[wasted]

Dunno man, you're more than likely right but the 99 demo sounds pretty much the same with a bunch of shit tacked onto it.

I doubt any of that stuff took 5 years, really.

I agree that really around 99 they had an album as Tommy has said the RTB re-record wasn't really necessary.

Of course it literally didn't take 5 years to make anything. But writing to completion 5 years at least.

Considering they had those 8 songs with Beltrami in 2002 and that doesn't take into account all the other songs they had floating around, I could see how it took at least until 2004 to get it together.

[niceguy]

Jesus fucking Christ, NOTHNG in something as simple as rock music takes five years to write. You trying to tell me that if you tally up all the number of hours spent on literally composing a song, it'll be five years?!

No. Yes, it took five years in a general sense, but that time was spent on tacking on more and more shit, getting Axl his beer, etc. Tallied up hours of actually creating this shit album isn't that huge of a number. Most of the time "spent" was just dead time with literally nothing happening.

[supercool]

People that want Axl to sound great with that fire he used to have? They basically get the middle finger from him and his team again, again and again.

It's nice to have these "what ifs, must haves, should haves, could haves, would haves" threads from time to time but, come on - nothing's gonna change until Axl starts giving a fuck.

he's 52, you can't expect him to have the fire he used to have when he was in his 20 and had everything to prove.

even if he started to give a fuck again, it wouldn't make a great difference (it would still be aging axl with a bunch of unknown musicians who have nothing to do with gnr).

Edited February 21, 2014 by supercool

[stumbleine]

yeah,almost any scenario but what we're actually witnessing would b preferable.

im so in doubt about going to vegas with money i fucking worked hard for/.

should i really support this bs one more day?

[Amir]

Dunno man, you're more than likely right but the 99 demo sounds pretty much the same with a bunch of shit tacked onto it.

I doubt any of that stuff took 5 years, really.

I really don't like the '99 demo of TWAT, whereas the version of ChiDem is one of my favourite songs ever. On the other hand with Catcher, I think a lot of the extra stuff took away from the song (though I like Bumble's solos).

And whereas a lot of people would have liked Axl to release the '99 album, we know that the label and Bob Ezrin and RTB wouldn't let Axl release that kind of music. So while you can choose to blame Axl for a bunch of stuff, he couldn't have released the '99 industrial-style album if he wanted to.

[supercool]

should i really support this bs one more day?

no

[dalsh327]

The album version was re-recorded by RTB in 2000? All 30 songs or something. When was the choir added, then Beltrami worked on it. I'm not sure if the demo has all the low voice Long Times.

Beltrami worked on TWAT, SOD, Madagascar, Prostitute in 2002. So from 99 that 4 years

At the same time he also did Seven, Leave Me Alone, Thyme, The General. That costs money and time.

But they also wasted a lot of money on just paying studio staff too much or blocking out studio time.

The above 4 songs really make the next record seem more substantial.

The record label didn't want to put the album out the way it was and kept kicking it back to him to keep at it. So when you tell a perfectionist with a history of low self esteem that it's not good enough, it's going to send them into a downward spiral. Some people feel he deserved it for Slash, Duff, and Izzy no longer being in the band, so maybe this is his punishment for wanting to keep the Guns N' Roses name.

I'm of the school of thought where if you made a company hundreds of millions of dollars, a big budget production shouldn't be a tall order, but that's where we have to remember Geffen was taken over, and it was as if all those millions he made the record company didn't matter in the equation after Iovine started running it.

[Chris 55]

This all goes back to 1997/98 when Axl released Oh My God.

He actually released it in late 1999 but hey, what's accurate history in GNR eh?

[werner]

Last week i watched à docu bout 30 seconds from mars called artifact. They were trying to release an album and got fucked over by there record company over and over again. And started a war against them with irving azoff as their manager. Gives you à good view of what axl also went through trying to release Chinese democracy.

[slaxl stradler]

Guns n roses is now just a money making machine, it has no need to make new music, new stuff doesn't sell.. but concert tickets do, and most of the people who buy these tickets are there to hear all the old classics.. why would they make new music?, axls said it himself.. he's had to take guns n roses with more a business like approach to it.. i don't blame the guy.. he's getting older and he's taking the safer route here..

[wasted]

Silkworms sort of proved Axl can still do edgy lyrics and it probably took 10 years to write and record as the crow flies.

[there is no dana only zool]

Axl shouldn't release an album for me, I'm not expecting one and I couldn't care less about that but what about his fans?

This reads to me like you are basically saying you aren't a fan. How come you're here then? It seems the only posts you ever make in D&N are negative ones toward the band. So I'm just curious: what keeps you around? Do you enjoy constantly slagging a band you don't like, or at least used to like that you're unsatisfied with now?

(i realize this obviously makes me sound like a wicked dick, but i assure that isn't my intention. honestly just wondering the above)

[PirateRadio]

Axl shouldn't release an album for me, I'm not expecting one and I couldn't care less about that but what about his fans?

This reads to me like you are basically saying you aren't a fan. How come you're here then? It seems the only posts you ever make in D&N are negative ones toward the band. So I'm just curious: what keeps you around? Do you enjoy constantly slagging a band you don't like, or at least used to like that you're unsatisfied with now?

(i realize this obviously makes me sound like a wicked dick, but i assure that isn't my intention. honestly just wondering the above)

I know you're not asking me, but you bring up a good point that I'd like to comment in if you don't mind. I'm the type that is always hardest on what I like/love the most. Never satisfied. I find this with everything I do. I really only enjoy things that I don't have an invested interest in. Some people are just this way. It's a ridiculous world and we can live in it however we choose. Wild stuff.