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Tom2112

Zappa/Axl parallels

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I thought this was interesting, some similarities here but obviously one of the two has a poor work ethic.

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Haven't watch the video.

Just one thing, from Wikipedia:

"During his lifetime, Zappa released 62 albums. Between 1994 and 2014, the Zappa Family Trust has released 37 posthumous albums, making for a total of 99 albums."

And by the time he was Axl's age now, he was dead.

Edited by Chuzeville

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Creating stupid threads like this should grant you a definitive ban. Sorry but this is sooooo retarded.

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On the plus side, this thread is great if people end up listening to the clip/Frank Zappa.

One Size Fits All

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It's a really loose tangent to GNR, isn't it? It's like the Henry Rollins backstage note.

Zappa was known for being a tough bandleader but when he took on ownership of the master tapes and forming Barking Pumpkin Records, who else was doing that, with the amount of music he had? He also had some hits that would be played on the radio around the world, maybe not big hits like SCOM, but all that money was going right into his pocket. He sued Warners for "questionable accounting practices" in order to get his master tapes and some cash out of it.

When Warners refused to release his 4 album "Lather" (which wound up being doled out on albums from Sleep Dirt to Joe's Garage), he did a "fuck you" move and had a radio station play the whole thing, told the audience at home to bootleg it.

Axl shares a lot of songwriting credits, and I don't think Zappa did.

(Jimmy Carl Black and the other original members of the Mothers would write an apology letter to Gail years later for slandering Zappa. Axl didn't disband GNR the way FZ did, but the "Burning Hills" fax was putting everything on hold. Slash and Duff were and are still business partners in GNR, they also had songwriting cre

http://www.afka.net/articles/1985_Mother_People.htm

G: What caused the break-up of the original Mothers?
JCB: Well, it was 1969, almost 1970. We got off a big tour and had been home about three or four days. I got a call from Frank saying he had decided to break up the band and our salaries had stopped as of the past week. I thought that was pretty cold myself, but Frank is a pretty cold guy. He's strictly business. I mean, he wrote the song, "I Ain't Got No Heart"... Frank couldn't fire us from the band because we were all partners – we weren't sidemen. He couldn't fire us so he just disbanded the group. But the way he disbanded the group; just chopping everybody off, without any severance pay, from this hugely successful tour that we had just gotten off of – obviously, the band was making SOME money, man – or SOMEBODY was. We were playing in these packed halls; sometimes emptying it out and filling it back up again. Now tell me the band's not making any money. The band never went first class. Frank went first class, but we didn't. Towards the end he wouldn't even stay in the same hotel with us, which was fine with us, because we got more girls then he did ... and got a lot higher than he did. And that's as far as we'll go with that. Yeah, Frank's a weird guy...
G: On the recent tour I find that Zappa isn't doing as many different shows as he used to years ago.
JCB: Well, WE never played the same show twice. The shows he's doing now are not spontaneous, and that's what MADE the Mothers of Invention. We rehearsed so often and played so much, we had a telepathic thing happening. Everybody knew what he was going to do before he did it. It was magic and he's never had that since; he's got nothing but SIDEMEN with him now. Oh, he's got same great guys, though... Frank isn't exciting ME too much with his music right now. He's just re-hashing. All those songs, we played back then – they just had different names. Different arrangements now, but they're still the same songs.
You know I'm actually flattered that you're doing this interview, because it's about time that somebody recognized the original guys in the band. Because with us, Frank Zappa would be NOTHING right now, and you can tell HIM that for me, if you want! Maybe he'll settle our little lawsuit then, if he starts thinking about it.
G: There's a current lawsuit up?
JCB: Well, we want to get paid for what we recorded so far in our partnership. It's been 20 years since we got any money, and I think he owes us money. All those old albums sure sold a whole bunch, and now he's got it re-released again. He's never even contacted any of us, to even let us KNOW it was being re-released. A friend of mine told ME about it! That's how I found out that the albums were being re-released. Now what kind of bullshit is that? – for the guys that helped you get where you're at. I suppose that since he didn't pay us the first time for royalties, I suppose he's going to go this time without paying us anything. He hasn't even sent me a copy of the new box set. I think I would be entitled to a copy of something that partly belongs to me, which those albums do. And Frank's going to be finding that out very shortly; that he may have acted a little out of line by doing what he did, according to certain legal documents.
Edited by dalsh327
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I'm not comparing Zappa and Axl in the way you guys seem to think. I'm talking solely about how he wants perfection and how he employs the band, pays them out of his own pocket before he receives any money from gigging. I'm not saying they are very similar in any other way. I'm sure they share the same thoughts on record companies etc. and a few other things but Frank was obviously 100 times more prolific in his lifetime.

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I get it, and it is an interesting comparison. The thing is Frank Zappa has always been Frank Zappa. Or he's been Frank Zappa and the Mothers Of Invention. But his name is in the title, and all the albums are very much his baby and his brainchild. He's telling the other guys what to play, so he has every right to hire and fire new people when he pleases. He leads the ship, because when he's the one basically putting these albums together he has the right to be a dictator.

Axl was NOT the sole contributor to GNR. He may be nowadays, but he still tours as "Guns N Roses". Therefore, until he changes his name to Axl Rose and his Guns of Roses, he should be judged for the way he treats his band members. Freak Out is a sole creation of Frank Zappa where he hired members of his band to play what he wanted. Appetite For Destruction and all true Guns albums are BAND creations so they are different from Zappa.

But I get your basic point.

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The only parallel I can think of is Zappa had Steve Vai in his band, and Axl had Buckethead in his band.

Vai is one of the few guitarists who can touch Bucket in terms of overall skill set.

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I chalk this thread up to boredom and maybe spending so much time on this forum that I now relate everything I see to GnR or Axl.

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No. Frank Zappa is one of the most talented and prolific creative musical geniuses ever.

To be fair your output is not what decides if you're a talented songwriter or not. Axl is a fine song writer/arranger and many would consider what he has recorded to be genius, listening to his harmonies and string arrangements it's clear he has a deep understanding of whats going on.

He obviouly should have much more out, and Zappa released a boat load (maybe 2 boat loads) more than Axl, and he will likely have another album out before Axl... and he's dead! I'm not debating that. The similarities are minute but there are obviously some, but using that reasoning I could draw the same conclusion from just about anyone.

Zappa is a genius, and so Is Axl (even if he can't be bothered to make/release new music).

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Ron Thal sort of reminds me of a really shitty Frank Zappa.

He would easily get a job as Zappa's guitarist.

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I read an interview with Steve Vai where they asked him what he learnt from playing with Frank and he said that he "learned to play with feeling" and that when he joined Frank said that (Vai) played like "an electric ham sandwich" :rofl-lol:

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I read an interview with Steve Vai where they asked him what he learnt from playing with Frank and he said that he "learned to play with feeling" and that when he joined Frank said that (Vai) played like "an electric ham sandwich" :rofl-lol:

:D

Vai is awesome.

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It's pretty funny in Zappa's Baby Snakes film, when Frank takes the piss out of him.

He definitely has a sense of humour (Vai)

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I think Frank did a good job explaining why he ruled with an iron fist, and they were valid reasons. GNR were a ramshackle band in comparison and the stuff Axl did to get fined, Frank NEVER would have done. I think when it comes to obsessing over things in the studio and all over the latest and greatest in technology.. they have that in common, but Zappa would have had 500 songs in the same timeframe Axl did, and a lot of times he'd just take the live multitracks, pull something out of there, and use it on a studio album. Who the fuck does THAT??

He cared about his legacy and he had a huge ego, but a lot of people who knew him and got close to him loved the man. Could he be intimidating? Sure, but he was also the type to be open minded when it came to musicians creating something, even if it wasn't with a music instrument. I think the problem is that people saw him the same way people see Weird Al, a novelty artist making comedy records. But if you go into the body of work he created, it's pretty staggering what he accomplished. I think Apostrophe and Overnight Sensation are probably the most accessible to listen to, and a lot of the music still sounds pretty fresh. Is some of it dated? Sure, but he was also a topical songwriter and he worked with the technology of the day.

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The only parallel I can think of is Zappa had Steve Vai in his band, and Axl had Buckethead in his band.

Vai is one of the few guitarists who can touch Bucket in terms of overall skill set.

Bucket is good, but he is no Vai....

Sometimes you Bucket fans get a little carried away.

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lol Steve Vai

What's wrong with Vai? I am by no means a big fan of his music, but as a guitar player he is elite.

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lol Steve Vai

Care to elaborate, Mozart. Thanks.

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