rock4eva Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 When there is absolutely no doubt as to the guilt and the crime is heinous enough I'm in favour of capital punishment.I'm also not opposed to the punishment fitting the crime, including what would probably be described as torture.I know this is probably abhorrent to some of you but I think we could take a leaf out of some Middle Eastern countries when it comes to human scum.But apparently those who were innocently executed were already 'guilty', otherwise they wouldn't have been convicted in the first place. Basic research shows that 4% of death row executions were WRONGFULLY executed! That's double what was previously thought! That is unfathomable in my mind. Imagine for just one second being related to one of those people. Let alone being the convicted one. Yeah I know it's often poor black people in the US who are executed and some of it is dubious.If I went through a shopping centre with a couple of assault rifles, SMG's and thermite grenades and took out shitload of people and it was on CCTV and all that, you know absolute proof...Not necessarily, althought Martin Bryant is on footage with guns shooting & killing people at Port Arthur in 1996 and survivors can point him out there are still conspiracy stories that he was set up by the Govt. So absolute proof doesn't always work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock4eva Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 When there is absolutely no doubt as to the guilt and the crime is heinous enough I'm in favour of capital punishment.I'm also not opposed to the punishment fitting the crime, including what would probably be described as torture.I know this is probably abhorrent to some of you but I think we could take a leaf out of some Middle Eastern countries when it comes to human scum.How can you make sure you are getting 'absolute proof', even if the person confesses it doesn't mean they committed the crime. The cameras are turned off while the police interrogation goes on, people are not fed & are sleep deprived until they sign a confession under duress.Lindy Chamberlain went to jail for killing her baby in the Northern Territory remember, absolute proof that she was guilty. Until more investigating was done and witnesses who were no allowed to testify were interviewed and it turned out she didn't in fact kill her baby. So they let her out of jail, give her money & she can't name names of who put her in there.I have a friend who spent 15yrs in jail for murdering a 12yr old girl, the whole investigation was botched and his conviction was quashed by the high court after he did the time. The police who arrested him were corrupt and did the same thing in another trial later on & dismissed from the police force - with full compensation of course. They refuse to retrial him on the new evidence & again witnesses who weren't allowed to testify on the first trial who want to have their say as they don't want to pay him compensation or have it proven how corrupt the police force actually is. He told me based on the evidence they presented in court he would have convicted himself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkAboutYou Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Fucking disgraceful. As if the death penalty isn't inhumane enough, it's made a little more barbaric by the procedure being botched in Oklahoma. Clayton Lockett died from a heart attack 45 minutes after he was supposed to, due to failed delivery of the the lethal injection.[link]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2615631/Oklahoma-prepares-execute-2-inmates.html[/link]I don't care what the guy did, torture is NOT OK.I think death penalty should be quick and over in seconds if possibleBut I also think some of the worlds worst offenders don't deserve to live or see the outside of a prison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 After administration of this humongous amount of LSD to the poor elephant, he trumpeted, shat, and fell over dead.I'm sorry but I literally laughed out loud at that. I'm totally a bad person. No, not just you. I pissed myself at the thought of a hallucinating elephant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK SUBS Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Lockett was sentenced to death for the 1999 shooting of a 19-year-old woman. Warner was convicted for the 1997 murder and rape of an 11-month-old girl.Yeah........... I don't think I'm gonna lose any sleep over this. I'm with you sister. It's a shame it went wrong? That's about the most sympathetic I can be I'm afraid -- I'm not trying to get involved with a political debate on capital punishment I'm simply telling the truth. I don't care about how he suffered not one little bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I find death penalty disgusting. As disgusting as having to feed and pay for the TV cable of the bastard who killed your son. Shit happens, sometimes things go wrong and the system is far from perfect but I am still amazed when I see people being all outraged and offended because of things like this when I read everyday on the paper way worse shit happening to good people. I'm sorry this person had to go through this, I refuse to believe any sane person could rejoice in this, but it wasn't done on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estranged Reality Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 on an intellectual level it's easy to acknowledge this is wrong, that the death penalty is in fact a faulty concept, but on a base human level it's hard to read this: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/death-looms-for-clayton-lockett-years-after-killing-oklahoma-teen/article_e459564b-5c60-5145-a1ce-bbd17a14417b.html Neiman was forced to watch as Lockett's accomplice, Shawn Mathis, spent 20 minutes digging a shallow grave in a ditch beside the road. Her friends saw Neiman standing in the ditch and heard a single shot. Lockett returned to the truck because the gun had jammed. He later said he could hear Neiman pleading, "Oh God, please, please" as he fixed the shotgun. The men could be heard "laughing about how tough Stephanie was" before Lockett shot Neiman a second time. "He ordered Mathis to bury her, despite the fact that Mathis informed him Stephanie was still alive." Bornt and Neiman's friend "were threatened that if they told anybody about these events, they too would be murdered," court records state. ...and not feel very little sympathy just as an emotional reaction to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I honestly couldn't care less that this guy suffered before he died. Fuck that piece of scum, he shot and buried a 19 year old girl alive.I understand in theory why some oppose the death penalty and at it's core that argument is sorta about equality. But that's fantasy, people are NOT equal, and some, like this guy, simply deserve to die. I'm not losing any sleep over this being botched. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarBradley Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) The solution for this issue was posited well over 10 years ago: Edited April 30, 2014 by OmarBradley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nulla Lex Ink. Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The solution for this issue was posited well over 10 years ago:The Boondock Saints was an awesome movie.To be honest, I used to favor the death penalty, but for a long time now I've been against it. People who murder other people for no reason are screwed up, but they're still people. I can't justify putting them in a small room for years on end though, that's just psychological torture. Yes what they did was wrong, but why repay that with more wrongness? What does that do and who is it for? Lock them in prison and try to rehabilitate them for God's sake, even if they won't see the outside of prison again, try and change them for the good. Maybe I'm just an idealist, but at least give it a try. The death penalty doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. Most people convicted aren't executed, usually dying of natural causes or by their own hands (except in Texas), and it sure as hell isn't working to keep people from committing murder. If it was, wouldn't there be less people going to prison for it?Then, as a lot of people have mentioned, there's the fact that there have been and probably still are innocent people on death row. There are people who have been proven innocent once they were executed. The worst part is, a lot of people know this, yet they do nothing to change it. I once watched this episode of Penn & Teller's show where they "interviewed" a guy who was anti-death penalty and one who was pro-death penalty. The anti guy said something like "100 people on death row are probably innocent," and then the pro guy says that people who say that are over exaggerating, and the number is actually closer to "20 to 40". As the show points out, you still admit that it's at least possible that innocent people are facing death!But then there's the thing that was, I guess you could say, the final nail in the coffin for me. When you kill somebody for a crime they've committed, you are snuffing their lives and, in a way, giving them freedom. They don't need to suffer anymore, because you gave them the easy way out. You're not punishing them, you're punishing more innocent people, the family of the murderer. Yes, what the killers do is bad, it's horrible, but they still have people who love and care for them. It's not fair for their families to be punished for something they didn't even have anything to do with, and what's even more unfair is the families end up being treated like they did wrong.I don't know. I'm an indecisive person, so maybe I'm just going through a phase. Maybe in about ten years I'll be pro-death penalty again, who knows. Sorry if my post was ignorant or offended anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsaken Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yeah i'm not one for the death penalty honestly, but fuck this guy. Was a piece of shit and deserved death. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) I'm all for PDF files in general population.definitely if it was up to me i would throw him in general population, get on a loud speaker read his crimes for all to hear, and take 20 minutes and go get a cup of coffee. the problem with the death penalty now is we are getting too cute with it to be honest, trying all kinds of stupid drugs, when a 12 gauge slug to the head is very effective, and quite humane, although these people did not deserve a humane death. Edited April 30, 2014 by bran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sandman Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Still unsure how you can botch an execution if he dies anyway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Still unsure how you can botch an execution if he dies anyway.yeah you would think a botched execution would be if the guy ends up surviving, like if the person was to be hung and the rope snapped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nulla Lex Ink. Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Still unsure how you can botch an execution if he dies anyway.Reminds me of a quote off of "The Green Mile." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I don't really want to get into this debate but.... arguing against the death penalty by showing examples of men who killed, then buried alive a 19 yearold girl and another who raped and murdered an 11 month old baby isn't going to work.....like ever. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsaken Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Still unsure how you can botch an execution if he dies anyway.Made me lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerousCurves Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 You're right. He should have been given a bullet to the head long ago. Seriously. One shoots a young lady and watches her be buried alive. The other RAPES and KILLS a baby. Let me repeat: RAPES and KILLS a baby. Just wrap your head around that...........And I'm supposed to feel sorry for his pain? HIS pain?! Fuck. That. The only thing I disagree with is that these complete wastes of space sat in prison with three hots and a cot while we have homeless and hungry veterans out there. Bullets are cheap and if done correctly, painless and instantaneous. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsaken Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The other RAPES and KILLS a baby. Let me repeat: RAPES and KILLS a baby. Just wrap your head around that...........I simply cannot fathom what runs through sick motherfuckers heads that brings them to do such unthinkable acts... I just don't understand how you could even get the urge. Fuck the death penalty, someone who does shit like this deserves to be killed on sight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val22 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Was he a killer? if he was then he deserved what he got.Yeah, Karma is a Bitch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarBradley Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You're right. He should have been given a bullet to the head long ago. Seriously. One shoots a young lady and watches her be buried alive. The other RAPES and KILLS a baby. Let me repeat: RAPES and KILLS a baby. Just wrap your head around that...........And I'm supposed to feel sorry for his pain? HIS pain?! Fuck. That. The only thing I disagree with is that these complete wastes of space sat in prison with three hots and a cot while we have homeless and hungry veterans out there. Bullets are cheap and if done correctly, painless and instantaneous.This. As most of you who have read my posts can surmise, I'm pretty liberal. But I have no fucking tolerance for crimes like this. I know that the "right" answer probably lies somewhere in attempting to rehabilitate these individuals... I know that many European prison systems are based on that, but I'm not sure if it would work in America, given the country's size and cultural diversity. This is one of those seldom cases though where I think the "right" answer is not the "best" answer. If you commit a grievous crime like these men did, you deserve punishment. In my opinion, they got off easy. There's been a lot people in this thread throwing around the term "inhumane." Humans have existed on this planet for upwards of 100,000 years, and I'd bet every penny I have that we've been killing each other for the same amount of time. It's unfortunate, but malevolence is in our nature. That's the whole point of political philosophy, the suppression of primal animal instincts in favor of self-discipline, wisdom, courage, and justice. Now where most political philosophers would disagree with me is in regards to violence - they would argue it is never correct to bring harm to another human being. I'm not saying we should torture every felon, but this notion of "if we treat 'em nice then it'll correct the behavior" is rubbish (I admit that's a reduction of the argument). Obviously we can always try to improve, but can you change human nature? I don't think so. There will always be people who commit treacherous actions, regardless of reasons why or life backgrounds. Why do we say to them, "You did this because there's something wrong in your mind, we (law abiding citizens) will rid you of this poison so you can be cured, and whole." Fuck that, I know I have a very negative view of human nature, but I don't think these individuals deserve our help. For things like murder, rape, torture, etc., punishment should be punishment, not rehabilitation. Theft, fraud, etc. I think are lesser crimes that can be successfully rehabilitated, and not only that, but those crimes are more common "everyman" mistakes (albeit, they are still poor lapses in judgement). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 It makes sense SoulMonster. It's sad though. Really sad.Is it also sad that someone who raped and murdered an infant suffered a fraction as much as the family of the infant and the infant itself? Yes, let's allow him to live a long life at taxpayer expense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Tax payers also pay for death row which is more expensive than life in prison.We could just kill them as soon as they are proven guilty, but that would make us tyrants.Idk but he did something really horrible.Yeah, but we don't live in the medieval era. It's 2014 ffs. Two wrongs don't make a right.Why do people knock at the Middle Ages? The Ancient times were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse when it comes to torture and executions. Anyway, fuck that guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsfanoldie Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 My least favorite part about executions is that they're finished far too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Tax payers also pay for death row which is more expensive than life in prison.We could just kill them as soon as they are proven guilty, but that would make us tyrants.At least that goes to something they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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