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35 minutes ago, soon said:

Thats cold. I dont know whats worse, him shitting on Moon and Entwistle, or this love fest between Pete and Roger of late.

There's not really been much of a love-fest...quite the opposite as I recall:

https://www.spin.com/2019/11/the-who-pete-townshend-roger-daltrey-feud/

I don't think Pete meant bad by his comments about John and Keith, insensitivily phrased perhaps but I don't think he meant bad by it.  And anyway, this stuff is nothing new, he's said it since forever, even in the Amazing Journey documentary he said that, from very early on he was like what am I doing in this band 'of horrible fucking yobbos with whom I had absolutely nothing in common!'.  Pete was an art student with a Trad Jazz playing father, Roger Daltrey was a two fisted sheet metal worker, Entwhistle was a sort of a stoic unemotional geezer and Moon was...well, I dunno what the fuck Moon was. 

And musically speaking what he means is that he found himself as a rhythm/lead guitarist not allowed to musical breathing space in a band with two soloists like Moon and Entwhistle.  Also, about Moon, we can all sit here saying Moon was a diamond geezer and all that but imagine being in a band with someone like that.  Hence his frustrated comments about Moon dying saving the band.  But then he's also said that, post Moon, they were never the same, they lost that element of musical danger and recklessness.  And y'know, he's very protective of Moon.  EXTREMELY protective.  In the late 70s when Moon died, around the time of the punk movement, Tony Parsons and Julie Birchill did some article about how its a good thing that Moon was dead and he was an arsehole and 'driving Rolls Royces into swimming pools, is that what rock n roll was about?  Moon was a decadent arsehole'.  Pete really laid into em over that, even wrote a song about em called Jules and Jim I believe.  He's said numerous times, Rog' too, that they feel sort of responsible for Moons death. 

I think he meant it as a musical thing, plus they're fuckin' working class British blokes, it ain't in the DNA over here to fuckin' spend too much time suckin' each other off.  Pete is like...there's two sides to Pete, he's the sensitive artist bit in great doses but also I think there's a lot more of the boorish Rog' Daltrey type character to him than he likes to admit, its evident in the stories about him. 

I'm just a massive fuckin' apologist, aren't I? :lol:

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56 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I'm just a massive fuckin' apologist, aren't I? :lol:

You are a true believer :lol:

57 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

There's not really been much of a love-fest...quite the opposite as I recall:

https://www.spin.com/2019/11/the-who-pete-townshend-roger-daltrey-feud/

Well, this article quotes the first article you posted (although the went to press on the exact same day...) and its them expressing affection.

"Although Townshend and singer Roger Daltrey, the two surviving members of The Who’s classic lineup, take frequent potshots at each other, they do express affection.

“I used to say that I love him, but with my fingers crossed,” Townshend said of Daltrey. “Now, I like him too. I like all his eccentricities, his foibles, his self-obsession, and his singer thing. Everything about him.”

For his part, Daltrey said, “I’ve always kind of known Pete cares for me. I hope he realizes I care about him. I think my actions through our career have shown that.”"

^^^ And this 'affection' talk has been happening ever since the new album cycle started with Roger and Pete speaking through the media about how Roger never got back to Pete after receiving Petes demos (apparently weeks wen passed with no word from Roger about the demos). Ever since that gaff they keep going on and on about their growing 'affection' for one another. If anything Id say the Spin piece is in repose to the love fest?? Ive posted some of those article and vids somewhere on here.

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

And musically speaking what he means is that he found himself as a rhythm/lead guitarist not allowed to musical breathing space in a band with two soloists like Moon and Entwhistle. 

Oh is that Petes excuse for being a poor lead guitar player?? :P Should have left Leslie Wests' parts on Lifehouse!:smiley-confused2:

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

I think he meant it as a musical thing, plus they're fuckin' working class British blokes, it ain't in the DNA over here to fuckin' spend too much time suckin' each other off. 

Can you remind them of this, please? :lol:

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Well, this article quotes the first article you posted (although the went to press on the exact same day...) and its them expressing affection.

"Although Townshend and singer Roger Daltrey, the two surviving members of The Who’s classic lineup, take frequent potshots at each other, they do express affection.

“I used to say that I love him, but with my fingers crossed,” Townshend said of Daltrey. “Now, I like him too. I like all his eccentricities, his foibles, his self-obsession, and his singer thing. Everything about him.”

For his part, Daltrey said, “I’ve always kind of known Pete cares for me. I hope he realizes I care about him. I think my actions through our career have shown that.”"

^^^ And this 'affection' talk has been happening ever since the new album cycle started with Roger and Pete speaking through the media about how Roger never got back to Pete after receiving Petes demos (apparently weeks wen passed with no word from Roger about the demos). Ever since that gaff they keep going on and on about their growing 'affection' for one another. If anything Id say the Spin piece is in repose to the love fest?? Ive posted some of those article and vids somewhere on here.

There's both really but the affection is a lot fewer and far between.  Basically they were four blokes with a lot of talent but personality differences and they were kinda held together by this thing called The Who and over time, as with anyone, you end up with this love hate relationship, its pretty basic.

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Oh is that Petes excuse for being a poor lead guitar player?? :P Should have left Leslie Wests' parts on Lifehouse!:smiley-confused2:

Pete Townshend is, overall, one of the greatest rock guitarists ever.  He might not have been Mr Lead but his importance to the genre is undeniable, it really is.

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Can you remind them of this, please? :lol:

What can I say, they're getting old :lol:

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“I find sometimes I’ll be saying things and I think, ‘Do I really feel that, or is my mouth just f—ing with me?’”

Thats pretty insightful :lol:  I've often done that myself, y'know how sometimes you think of something and there is a line of logic to it so you say it but there's a difference between 'i can see how that would make sense' and 'i actually believe this!'.  I'm very unsure generally about what I believe, I'm more likely to say 'thats entirely possible' than 'thats absolutely correct'.

Edited by Len Cnut

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7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Pete Townshend is, overall, one of the greatest rock guitarists ever.  He might not have been Mr Lead but his importance to the genre is undeniable, it really is.

Agreed. A one of a kind, top shelf artist. And a beast on the guitar :headbang:

rNGd6tV.jpg

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

There's both really but the affection is a lot fewer and far between.  Basically they were four blokes with a lot of talent but personality differences and they were kinda held together by this thing called The Who and over time, as with anyone, you end up with this love hate relationship, its pretty basic.

Well said. Considering how rebellious and bombastic their sound was, its neat to think about how much they yielded to one another. Like Roger singing Petes songs, Pete holding time so that the rhythm section can go off, Moon playing drums to the melodies (Not sure how to say that, but hopefully you know what I mean). How Entwistle was so supportive when Pete was struggling to articulate concept themes, even writing lyrics to help flesh out Petes vision. Its actually a lot more collaborative then bands that seem more intellectual and buttoned down. The rebellion was outward and they were, it seems, super supportive of one another as artists and business partners.

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1 minute ago, soon said:

Agreed. A one of a kind, top shelf artist. And a beast on the guitar :headbang:

rNGd6tV.jpg

Well said. Considering how rebellious and bombastic their sound was, its neat to think about how much they yielded to one another. Like Roger singing Petes songs, Pete holding time so that the rhythm section can go off, Moon playing drums to the melodies (Not sure how to say that, but hopefully you know what I mean). How Entwistle was so supportive when Pete was struggling to articulate concept themes, even writing lyrics to help flesh out Petes vision. Its actually a lot more collaborative then bands that seem more intellectual and buttoned down. The rebellion was outward and they were, it seems, super supportive of one another as artists and business partners.

Also, I think its unreasonable to expect a bloke whoose spent the last 50 years pretty much writing songs about frustration and anger and disenfranchisement and being mentally disturbed (which is pretty much what Quadrophenia is about, mental illness) to be this well-adjusted person, I kind of expect this kind of contradictory shit from Pete, when you look at whats behind all The Who's work its like being Pete Townshends psychiatrist.  Some of his songs he just mercilessly tears himself apart, However Much I Booze for example, its almost like uncomfortable how much of himself he reveals in that song and realy bluntly at that.  If The Who's music wasn't so powerfully energetic they'd run the risk of being seriously depressing.  Even Tommy is about like growing up in the wake of WW2 and feeling like...deaf, dumb and blind because you were the children of these people who'd been through this big crazy thing but none of the adults would talk about it and like... a lot of people lost a lot during that time and turned to booze or other unhelpful modes of behaviour and a lot of kids kinda suffered the brunt, in more than a few cases I'm sure in what would today be termed as abuse. 

I think when people become legendary for something we often equate that to being like...I dunno, perfect.  Or if not perfect then...I dunno, well adjusted or together upstairs when its not hard to see from what originally made them famous ample reason to not expect that shit from them.  Look at Jacko, the sort of behaviour that everyone loved him for and what part of what made him legendary is also part of what made him an extremely weird bastard.  Same with someone like Phil Spector, something was bound to go wrong with that crazy cunt, all those stories of him pulling out shooters in recording studios and virtually kidnapping The Ramones.  He even fucked John Lennon off. 

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1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Also, I think its unreasonable to expect a bloke whoose spent the last 50 years pretty much writing songs about frustration and anger and disenfranchisement and being mentally disturbed (which is pretty much what Quadrophenia is about, mental illness) to be this well-adjusted person, I kind of expect this kind of contradictory shit from Pete, when you look at whats behind all The Who's work its like being Pete Townshends psychiatrist.  Some of his songs he just mercilessly tears himself apart, However Much I Booze for example, its almost like uncomfortable how much of himself he reveals in that song and realy bluntly at that.  If The Who's music wasn't so powerfully energetic they'd run the risk of being seriously depressing.  Even Tommy is about like growing up in the wake of WW2 and feeling like...deaf, dumb and blind because you were the children of these people who'd been through this big crazy thing but none of the adults would talk about it and like... a lot of people lost a lot during that time and turned to booze or other unhelpful modes of behaviour and a lot of kids kinda suffered the brunt, in more than a few cases I'm sure in what would today be termed as abuse. 

I think when people become legendary for something we often equate that to being like...I dunno, perfect.  Or if not perfect then...I dunno, well adjusted or together upstairs when its not hard to see from what originally made them famous ample reason to not expect that shit from them.  Look at Jacko, the sort of behaviour that everyone loved him for and what part of what made him legendary is also part of what made him an extremely weird bastard.  Same with someone like Phil Spector, something was bound to go wrong with that crazy cunt, all those stories of him pulling out shooters in recording studios and virtually kidnapping The Ramones.  He even fucked John Lennon off. 

Wow, that unpacking of Tommy is really helpful and insightful! Thanks, I never caught on to that aspect.

The post WW2 stuff in Britain is something that I struggle to wrap my head around. Even though almost all my favourite rock music is about it. And even though there is a trauma just beneath the surface here too, with ongoing colonization. But its swept under the rug in the Settler world. Thousands of Canadians without access to clean and reliable water. A 10 year old took their life on reserve this passed week. First Nations Youth won a class action lawsuit against the Feds for getting fucked over with no resources or infrastructure. And the Feds are fighting it, all while talking "reconciliation." There are two distinct narratives to this land.

But y'all seem to have a good grasp on the ins-and-outs of the British post war suffering. So with Pete as such an incisive artist theres this strong meta thing happening, I think? Where he is able to explore and articulate the trauma and how its manifest while also in a more unchecked way he is living out that trauma and the damages its caused?

I do kinda understand how naturally occurring love/hate relationships could be exasperated by trauma - in various moments being free of the immediate trauma and then in a snap suddenly being drown in the trauma. Also, in the fatherless post war period the idea of warm feelings for a male must be complicated. In the Who's case the healing is taking place in the music whilst the damage is playing out in the band members relationships, maybe?

These ol' softies are having an effect on me. I just listened to A Quick One Well He's Away after reading your post and the "you are forgiven" coda chocked me up a bit, given the context you lended their work.:smiley-confused2::lol:

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12 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Horrible interview. What are you doing Pete?

Its nothing new he's always been a pompous prick.

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4 hours ago, action said:

I just realised you can't spell economy without "eco"

mind = blown

@soon

You got it!! It is all one entity. Neoliberal capitalism, which is inherently ecocidal, tries to say that they are two separate things, though. They say "we cant go green because of the economy!" Which is laughable when you look at the word as you have, isnt it? :lol:

You've actually stumbled onto a very favourite topic but I'll try and be brief!

From the greek oikonomia, the notion that you have identified took on a centrally important role in the early church. And it lives on in many traditions today, including mine where it informs the concept of "a community of goods" "stewardship/ creation-care." By the time that Orthodox and later Catholic doctrine emerged, "Economy" was one of two pillars of understanding Gods nature and work along with "Theology." Theology to know God and Economy to understand how Gods work plays out, including quite notably how Gods saving grace extends to Creation itself. Ecologically. But even before such doctrine, the concept is mentioned a few times in Pauline Epistles. One being Ephesians, which is quite the text indeed(!), and really highlights how important this concept was to the earliest believers. Its ecological, which includes about meeting human needs (the way we use the term commonly today). And its about the  spiritual and mystical all as 'one entity.' So, I guess to the early church, outside of the mystery of God, you cant spell ANYTHING without "eco" :headbang:

 

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3 minutes ago, soon said:

You got it!! It is all one entity. Neoliberal capitalism, which is inherently ecocidal, tries to say that they are two separate things, though. They say "we cant go green because of the economy!" Which is laughable when you look at the word as you have, isnt it? :lol:

You've actually stumbled onto a very favourite topic but I'll try and be brief!

From the greek oikonomia, the notion that you have identified took on a centrally important role in the early church. And it lives on in many traditions today, including mine where it informs the concept of "a community of goods" "stewardship/ creation-care." By the time that Orthodox and later Catholic doctrine emerged, "Economy" was one of two pillars of understanding Gods nature and work along with "Theology." Theology to know God and Economy to understand how Gods work plays out, including quite notably how Gods saving grace extends to Creation itself. Ecologically. But even before such doctrine, the concept is mentioned a few times in Pauline Epistles. One being Ephesians, which is quite the text indeed(!), and really highlights how important this concept was to the earliest believers. Its ecological, which includes about meeting human needs (the way we use the term commonly today). And its about the  spiritual and mystical all as 'one entity.' So, I guess to the early church, outside of the mystery of God, you cant spell ANYTHING without "eco" :headbang:

 

i'm not interested in your tirade, soon. I was just pointing out a silly observation, is all :P

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So tired. Moving into my apartment this week, been shopping the past two days. It's amazing how much stuff you need to set up a household. Three cartloads from Walmart so far. 🤣

 

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6 hours ago, BlueJean Baby said:

So tired. Moving into my apartment this week, been shopping the past two days. It's amazing how much stuff you need to set up a household. Three cartloads from Walmart so far. 🤣

 

You never know how much shit you have until you move :lol:

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5 hours ago, EvanG said:

Today is the greatest day I have ever known.

Can't live for tomorrow
Tomorrow's much too long…

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5 hours ago, EvanG said:

Today is the greatest day I have ever known.

It is raining cold and all kids in your neighborhood have drowned?

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12 hours ago, soon said:

Townsend wanted Daltrey to rap on the new album! :lol:

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/the-who-roger-daltrey-rap/

Also, from Daltrey:

"Elsewhere in the interview, Daltrey said that those who believe he is “kind of a hard nut” have “got it backwards. I’m not. I’m a softy. I’m the softest person in the world.”"
 
Sorry @Len Cnut 

 

No hardnut ever said 'I'm a right hardnut, y'know' :lol:  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's fuckin' Bruce Lee when I say that shit, alls I'm saying is that for what he was, i.e. a young west London lad, he was handy, he could have it, he'd go for it.  Daltrey rapping?!  *shudders* :lol:

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On 02/12/2019 at 8:30 AM, action said:

I just realised you can't spell economy without "eco"

mind = blown

@soon

ECO stands for European Community Overlords :lol:

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3 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

No hardnut ever said 'I'm a right hardnut, y'know' :lol:  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's fuckin' Bruce Lee when I say that shit, alls I'm saying is that for what he was, i.e. a young west London lad, he was handy, he could have it, he'd go for it.  Daltrey rapping?!  *shudders* :lol:

I feel like Ive heard Liam say he's 'ard many times. Many times :lol:

The demo has Pete rapping then?? :wow: I dont wanna hear that. But, also, I really wanna hear that :lol:

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I feel like Ive heard Liam say he's 'ard many times. Many times :lol:

I haven't that I recall.  Liam, again, is someone who will have it.  I wouldn't say he was of the Daltrey, Ginger Baker variety though, he's a nice boy at heart, Liam.  Not that the aforementioned aren't, they just come from a bit more of a rathole than Liam.  Noel and Liam, as much as they go on about their working class credentials, come from a pretty soft area, Burnage, from what I hear from mates up Manchester way.

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The demo has Pete rapping then?? :wow: I dont wanna hear that. But, also, I really wanna hear that :lol:

If you really think about it, how much actual singing is Daltrey doing on My Generation?  And hey, if Dee Dee Ramone can do it :lol:

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24 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

If you really think about it, how much actual singing is Daltrey doing on My Generation?  And hey, if Dee Dee Ramone can do it :lol:

Correction: Dee Dee Ramone can not do it :lol: True, My Generation had a de la Rocha kinda spit to it, I guess. I'd figure Pete would have a more Debbie Harry flow :lol: 

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16 minutes ago, soon said:

Correction: Dee Dee Ramone can not do it :lol:

I'm a funky man, I got funky bones, my name is DEE DEE RAMONE!!!!  F-F-F-F-FUNKY! :lol:

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1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

I haven't that I recall.  Liam, again, is someone who will have it.  I wouldn't say he was of the Daltrey, Ginger Baker variety though, he's a nice boy at heart, Liam.  Not that the aforementioned aren't, they just come from a bit more of a rathole than Liam.  Noel and Liam, as much as they go on about their working class credentials, come from a pretty soft area, Burnage, from what I hear from mates up Manchester way.

I live not far from Burnage, Moss Side etc and they used to be pretty sketchy about 20 years ago with a lot of gun crime. It's gotten a lot better in recent years though. I think a lot of the wronguns are round Salford way these days.  

Gun Crime in South Manchester

Edited by Dazey

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