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J Dog

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On 05/09/2018 at 5:53 PM, J Dog said:

 

Vs

 

 

Nas.  I been sayin' Nas since it happened.  Its weird that it came down to these two songs and this is kinda what its judged by when some of the freestyles that Jay dropped went in harder than that song, its weird that he'd keep the definitive song kinda light and more about numbers than the freestyles.  Jay is the king of the subliminal, Is That Yo Bitch? is reported about Jay and the true story of how he was bangin' Nas's bird, which is weird because had he have been more overt about that it would've hurt Nas's game a lot more.  Ether has sort of entered the vernacular too, whenever someone gets done its like 'x' got ethered. 

 

That to me goes in harder than Takeover and he doesn't really say its about Nas's wife, though it later became a known thing.  And that ain't even including some of the freestyles these boys went back on forth with. 

Edited by Len Cnut
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On 9/7/2018 at 4:01 AM, Len Cnut said:

Nas.  I been sayin' Nas since it happened.  Its weird that it came down to these two songs and this is kinda what its judged by when some of the freestyles that Jay dropped went in harder than that song, its weird that he'd keep the definitive song kinda light and more about numbers than the freestyles.  Jay is the king of the subliminal, Is That Yo Bitch? is reported about Jay and the true story of how he was bangin' Nas's bird, which is weird because had he have been more overt about that it would've hurt Nas's game a lot more.  Ether has sort of entered the vernacular too, whenever someone gets done its like 'x' got ethered. 

 

That to me goes in harder than Takeover and he doesn't really say its about Nas's wife, though it later became a known thing.  And that ain't even including some of the freestyles these boys went back on forth with. 

You know another good one I thought was better than Takeover was Blueprint, the actual song. Know what I’m talking about? Got a real cold piano in it and an almost opera style ah-ahhhh in the background. H, o-v-a, I got my mojo back baby oh behave. That’s a sick song. And it’s serious, the shots he takes at Nas on that are for real. But it’s buried on the bonus disc of Blueprint 2. Just strange that such a strong response song he kind of buried it on his own album like that. A lot of people don’t even know that song.

That whole battle was a good example though of a diss track inspiring someone. That lit a fire under Nas. Made me happy. Sometimes I think Jay thought since he was so big at the time and Nas had fallen off that everyone would accept his disses as the winner and Nas would just be forgotten about. It was good to see rap fans take Nas back with open arms.

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12 minutes ago, J Dog said:

You know another good one I thought was better than Takeover was Blueprint, the actual song. Know what I’m talking about? Got a real cold piano in it and an almost opera style ah-ahhhh in the background. H, o-v-a, I got my mojo back baby oh behave. That’s a sick song. And it’s serious, the shots he takes at Nas on that are for real. But it’s buried on the bonus disc of Blueprint 2. Just strange that such a strong response song he kind of buried it on his own album like that. A lot of people don’t even know that song.

That whole battle was a good example though of a diss track inspiring someone. That lit a fire under Nas. Made me happy. Sometimes I think Jay thought since he was so big at the time and Nas had fallen off that everyone would accept his disses as the winner and Nas would just be forgotten about. It was good to see rap fans take Nas back with open arms.

The problem with these drop knowledge types was that the fanbase, or at least the fanbase in our day, were some unforgiving motherfuckers and we tended to adopt the idea that they were soft or had gone soft and Nas was a victim of that I think.  Nowadays if you drop knowledge free of gangsta shit like Kendrick and Cole you get fuckin' Pulitzers and everyones on your dick but it wasn't like that before.  Also I think that particular beef was one which afforded both rappers the freedom to kinda go at it without this fear that it'd go further than wax because I don't think neither Nas or Jay were on that kinda thing, like a Pac thing where if he dissed you you'd better think seriously about responding or at least overtly responding because you might lose your G at the next Vibe Awards or whatever.  But yeah, I was happy as fuck for Stillmatic.  I always had respect for Nas as a rhymer, high high high level respect but he seemed to be drifting for a bit there.  Kinda like Em', I always love Em' because I know what Em' is and even on his worst day he's a wizard with the words but...you kinda wanna see them with that fire under em as you said.

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3 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

The problem with these drop knowledge types was that the fanbase, or at least the fanbase in our day, were some unforgiving motherfuckers and we tended to adopt the idea that they were soft or had gone soft and Nas was a victim of that I think.  Nowadays if you drop knowledge free of gangsta shit like Kendrick and Cole you get fuckin' Pulitzers and everyones on your dick but it wasn't like that before.  Also I think that particular beef was one which afforded both rappers the freedom to kinda go at it without this fear that it'd go further than wax because I don't think neither Nas or Jay were on that kinda thing, like a Pac thing where if he dissed you you'd better think seriously about responding or at least overtly responding because you might lose your G at the next Vibe Awards or whatever.  But yeah, I was happy as fuck for Stillmatic.  I always had respect for Nas as a rhymer, high high high level respect but he seemed to be drifting for a bit there.  Kinda like Em', I always love Em' because I know what Em' is and even on his worst day he's a wizard with the words but...you kinda wanna see them with that fire under em as you said.

No you're spot on about the knowledge type rappers being looked at as soft back then. That's another reason I think Jay kind of underestimated Nas. I just always felt like Jay figured any response from Nas would just be swept under the rug and wouldn't make much noise.

I honestly think the whole Nas fell off talk is a bit exaggerated. Illmatic is classic, most people I know pretty much rate It Was Written as borderline classic, I almost like it just as much if not more than Illmatic. I Am is better than what it gets credit for, not a bad album at all. Nastradamus is really his only album up to that point that I would call weak. Or at least not up to Nas standards.

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21 minutes ago, J Dog said:

No you're spot on about the knowledge type rappers being looked at as soft back then. That's another reason I think Jay kind of underestimated Nas. I just always felt like Jay figured any response from Nas would just be swept under the rug and wouldn't make much noise.

I honestly think the whole Nas fell off talk is a bit exaggerated. Illmatic is classic, most people I know pretty much rate It Was Written as borderline classic, I almost like it just as much if not more than Illmatic. I Am is better than what it gets credit for, not a bad album at all. Nastradamus is really his only album up to that point that I would call weak. Or at least not up to Nas standards.

The problem with starring out hot is you gotta maintain it and EVERY rapper has struggled with that.  Thats why Pac was great in that he was a slow burner that got better and better and better.  Not that 2Pacalypse Now and Strictly weren’t amazing albums which made a noise in their own right but he kinda evolved and got so good to where, in my book, Me Against and everything after were just classics of the genre, thought you could also argue that, conceptually, 2Pacalypse was as much a cogent and coherent piece of work with a defined point and purpose as any one of his albums.  But when you drop an Illmatic or a Doggystyle right off the bat its hard to follow up.  I think Dre understood that, which is why we did see 2001 til late in the day after the Chronic.  Doggfather, Game is to be Sold, Top Dogg, to me these are solid albums but they didnt really get that same respect cuz they were following up a monster.  You could almost argue that Snoop never really had an album to measure up with Doggystyle, not just in terms of sales but classic status too.  Jay did with Blueprint, Nas did with Stillmatic...but Snoop never really did, though he came close with a handful so I guess that evens things out. Also none of their shits was as big as Doggystyle was.  Last Meal i thought was pretty formidable, as was the one he dissed Suge on Paid tha Cost.

I thought he was great on No Limit, he kinda a southern drawl despite being west coast, a lot of those guys do cuz i believe their background was folks who moved from the south, he was kinda the first superstar with that southern touch.

Edited by Len Cnut
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1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

The problem with starring out hot is you gotta maintain it and EVERY rapper has struggled with that.  Thats why Pac was great in that he was a slow burner that got better and better and better.  Not that 2Pacalypse Now and Strictly weren’t amazing albums which made a noise in their own right but he kinda evolved and got so good to where, in my book, Me Against and everything after were just classics of the genre, thought you could also argue that, conceptually, 2Pacalypse was as much a cogent and coherent piece of work with a defined point and purpose as any one of his albums.  But when you drop an Illmatic or a Doggystyle right off the bat its hard to follow up.  I think Dre understood that, which is why we did see 2001 til late in the day after the Chronic.  Doggfather, Game is to be Sold, Top Dogg, to me these are solid albums but they didnt really get that same respect cuz they were following up a monster.  You could almost argue that Snoop never really had an album to measure up with Doggystyle, not just in terms of sales but classic status too.  Jay did with Blueprint, Nas did with Stillmatic...but Snoop never really did, though he came close with a handful so I guess that evens things out. Also none of their shits was as big as Doggystyle was.  Last Meal i thought was pretty formidable, as was the one he dissed Suge on Paid tha Cost.

I thought he was great on No Limit, he kinda a southern drawl despite being west coast, a lot of those guys do cuz i believe their background was folks who moved from the south, he was kinda the first superstar with that southern touch.

That’s so true about having to stay hot and it being hard to do. Especially in the rap game. We talked about Cube earlier, he kind of did it for awhile. DMX kind of did it. Pac is probably the best example of being the exception. And a certain rapper from Detroit whose name escapes me right now.

(Sorry had throw that in :lol:)

Yeah Doggystyle was so big there was no way Snoop could keep up with that. But I’m like you and think most of his albums after that were all still pretty solid. I still say Doggfather gets way too much hate.

I loved his time at No Limit. I heard Nate Dogg say once that he thought Snoop like, really found himself at No Limit.

See, the south always was more in tune with the west. I’m even like that. If you put a gun to my head and made me choose I’d have to take the west. The sound is more similar. Like if you listen to old Geto Boys or Scarface or even Oukast first couple of albums, if you had to pick one you’d have to say they sounded more west than east. Coming up I always heard more Eazy and Death Row and stuff. I think some of that is because in person they are more alike. Ain’t no subways or huge apartment complexes or no big winter coats down here. But we have the ghettos that resemble, idk, Boyz N the Hood or Friday, know what I mean?

Besides Snoop being just a cool motherfucker, that’s why he was so accepted when he joined No Limit. He felt like a distant relative if that makes sense. Too $hort as well, he was accepted as one of our own.

Edited by J Dog
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From urban dictionary :lol:

ether:

It means to humiliate someone verbally, or to "dis them", but to a greater extent. it ends all "insult-fests"

To burn someone. It f*cks with your soul. The sh*t that makes your soul burn slow. 

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See, the south always was more in tune with the west. I’m even like that. If you put a gun to my head and made me choose I’d have to take the west. The sound is more similar. Like if you listen to old Geto Boys or Scarface or even Oukast first couple of albums, if you had to pick one you’d have to say they sounded more west than east. Coming up I always heard more Eazy and Death Row and stuff. I think some of that is because in person they are more alike. Ain’t no subways or huge apartment complexes or no big winter coats down here. But we have the ghettos that resemble, idk, Boyz N the Hood or Friday, know what I mean?

This is why I guess a lot of NY rap resonates with me because thats basically what London is, cold, blocks of flats with dirty lifts, big staircases with people selling gear on em.  Always loved the west and the south but it wasn't quite relateable in the same way.  The song that i REALLY understand is Run by Ghostface, that song is fuckin' SOOOO relateable because that kinda shit and the described envoirnment and behaviour is something I've seen a great deal of, even though its like miles apart. 

And thats why a lot of rapping coming out of London tends and New York is less so smooth like the south and the west and more so kinda sharp and quick and flippin' and bouncing and kinda rata-tat-tat-ey, cuz its fuckin' cold out here :lol:   Its the musical equivalent of chattering teeth while the south and the west are like the musical equivalent of laying on a sun loungers goin' mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..  Don't ask me to explain Twista, there's exceptions to everything :lol:

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On 9/12/2018 at 12:44 PM, Len Cnut said:

This is why I guess a lot of NY rap resonates with me because thats basically what London is, cold, blocks of flats with dirty lifts, big staircases with people selling gear on em.  Always loved the west and the south but it wasn't quite relateable in the same way.  The song that i REALLY understand is Run by Ghostface, that song is fuckin' SOOOO relateable because that kinda shit and the described envoirnment and behaviour is something I've seen a great deal of, even though its like miles apart. 

And thats why a lot of rapping coming out of London tends and New York is less so smooth like the south and the west and more so kinda sharp and quick and flippin' and bouncing and kinda rata-tat-tat-ey, cuz its fuckin' cold out here :lol:   Its the musical equivalent of chattering teeth while the south and the west are like the musical equivalent of laying on a sun loungers goin' mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..  Don't ask me to explain Twista, there's exceptions to everything :lol:

Yeah I see what you mean, makes sense. Good song too.

This beat right here really gets the south feel perfectly. Laid back, kinda hot and humid.

That’s one of the few non west coast songs on that soundtrack. I know there was Spice 1, Dj Quik, Too Short, Ant Banks, MC Eiht, Ice Cube. UGK blends in pretty good with them.

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18 minutes ago, J Dog said:

Yeah I see what you mean, makes sense. Good song too.

This beat right here really gets the south feel perfectly. Laid back, kinda hot and humid.

That’s one of the few non west coast songs on that soundtrack. I know there was Spice 1, Dj Quik, Too Short, Ant Banks, MC Eiht, Ice Cube. UGK blends in pretty good with them.

I remember ordering that on CD, dubbing a tape, scratching the CD and then returning it to the shop saying it was damaged when i got it home :lol:  Bought a ten bag with my refund :lol:

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17 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I remember ordering that on CD, dubbing a tape, scratching the CD and then returning it to the shop saying it was damaged when i got it home :lol:  Bought a ten bag with my refund :lol:

Slick sumbitch :lol:

Even Pac was down with the south. That’s a monster freestyle he lays down too. Pretty sure the story is Scarface recorded it on a handheld video camera :lol:

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Revisited Clipse first two albums. Both are great. I don’t think either album gets the recognition they deserve. And neither Pusha T or No Malice gets credit for what great mc’s they are either. Pusha is finally getting some respect but that’s mainly due to dissing Drake and Young Money so hard. But both of them are top quality mc’s.

I’be been bumping Hell Hath No Fury non stop. Such a hard, dark album.

I listen to the beat and the rhyme is wrote

I was only sixteen eyes full of hope

Baggin up grams at the Hyatt though

The news call it crack I call it Diet Coke

Miami vice, I don’t fear Tubbs and Crockett

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