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Questions about the Vault..

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to anyone saying they should put old songs/videos on their website... we all know that like 4 people would actually pay for them then everyone else would just rip it off youtube

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25 minutes ago, SlashisGOD said:

Somehow I really, really doubt this is true. Someone else mentioned it but Axl's work ethic pretty much says otherwise.

Didnt you hear Dizzy latest interviews. He said Axl is one of the most hard working people he knows :D:lol:

Edited by Gibbo

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2 hours ago, ludurigan said:

are these axl quotes from the ANF era?

all of them?

i remember some but not all of them

and some are completely insane!

Yep. I'm sure you'd love that electronica/moby-esque Chinese Democracy 2 that Axl mentions. All of those quotes are post 1997 and most of the 2nd album/70 songs talk is between '99-02. After '02 he sort of changes his tune and acts like he doesn't have as much material as the internet thinks he has. The trilogy of albums he supposedly is developing between 99-02 becomes a double album post 2002. Meaning...allegedly...there's another completed album in the vault along with the 1999/2000 version of Chinese Democracy which was again, allegedly, already mastered. There may even be another 1/2 album worth of songs in addition that are completed for a potential third album. 

In a way I'm grateful that he hasn't released all of this material (if it actually exists). It means there's a small sliver of a chance that Duff and Slash can save those songs in the studio. 

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2 hours ago, SlashisGOD said:

Somehow I really, really doubt this is true. Someone else mentioned it but Axl's work ethic pretty much says otherwise.

Agreed. I have a feeling Axl and Caram are referring to band jamming sessions as completed songs. There's a vintage Slash interview from 96 iirc where he mentions how all they've done is jam in studio but apparently Axl considers some of that material to be completed songs which he found bizarre. Finck sort of said the same thing when he quit the first time pre-Buckethead. 

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On ‎24‎/‎06‎/‎2015 at 11:37 AM, Słash said:

Yes the Vault does Exist, its some where in Axl's house, Beta knows where it is as she used to clean it before, but from my sources it has not been cleaned since a while.

There is alot of stuff in the vault, there are some AFD demo's which all of us have heard, there is some stuff from the illusions, some unknown demo's, the illusions documentary has a separate case inside the vault which reads "DO NOT OPEN"

There is a lot of stuff from the CD Era, a lot of instrumentals, some really cool stuff from Bucket, my sources say that Paul Tobias is inside the Vault since 2001.

The Vault is old school, but a few years ago I was informed that it will be converted to Digital, but Axl din't want it digital as anyone can hack or break it these days.

The next Mission Impossible movie will be based on the vault, it will be called Mission: Impossible - The Doom of the Vault

:lol::lol::lol: I don´t mind going to Malibu, steal The Vault some hours, convert it to digital, and then return it to the place it was before

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10 hours ago, RONIN said:

Yep. I'm sure you'd love that electronica/moby-esque Chinese Democracy 2 that Axl mentions. All of those quotes are post 1997 and most of the 2nd album/70 songs talk is between '99-02. After '02 he sort of changes his tune and acts like he doesn't have as much material as the internet thinks he has. The trilogy of albums he supposedly is developing between 99-02 becomes a double album post 2002. Meaning...allegedly...there's another completed album in the vault along with the 1999/2000 version of Chinese Democracy which was again, allegedly, already mastered. There may even be another 1/2 album worth of songs in addition that are completed for a potential third album. 

In a way I'm grateful that he hasn't released all of this material (if it actually exists). It means there's a small sliver of a chance that Duff and Slash can save those songs in the studio. 

wow!

this quote is insane!

"We have material that we think is too advanced for old Guns fans to hear right now and they would completely hate."

i love how axl puts himself in a superior plane above "GNR Fans" considering his music too "advanced" for them!

like "oh these poor guys they don't know better! they love this cheap three chords rock n roll music! my music is far too advanced for them"

"advanced"

:rofl-lol:

yeah right!

he released a full album of half-good mostly-bad songs with terrible arrangements and truly unlistenable clean vocals!

maybe axl should try releasing some good music for a change!

then maybe no one will care if it is "advanced" or not, as long as it is good!

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CD is good. I agree the arrangements needed work - a symptom of over cutting and pasting and insufficient band working together time to craft / hone the songs. I actually quite like the clean vocals, my biggest issue vocally is some of the pitching / vibrato, particularly in Madagascar and The Blues which should have been re-recorded.

On topic - just release the vault. Get it done. I'd happily pay $200 for a limited edition boxset. Get it done for the fans that want to hear it. Those that don't can simply ignore it. Then move on, to new music written as a band.

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I have never considered Chinese to be that advanced in an electronic sense - or in any kind of sense. The songs are the standard collection of rock songs and ballads - it is just they have bleeps caked over and self-indulgent introductions. It is not exactly Warp Records. In fact I remember being surprised at the time how conservative the album was following ''Oh My God''. And many Guns fans had already dissected Nine Inch Nails to death so ''industrial-rock'' was hardly this ''weird esoteric music'' that ''we could not possibly contemplate because we were all stuck in cock rock mode'' - infact industrial-rock was old hat by 2008. 

 

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8 hours ago, ludurigan said:

wow!

this quote is insane!

"We have material that we think is too advanced for old Guns fans to hear right now and they would completely hate."

i love how axl puts himself in a superior plane above "GNR Fans" considering his music too "advanced" for them!

like "oh these poor guys they don't know better! they love this cheap three chords rock n roll music! my music is far too advanced for them"

"advanced"

:rofl-lol:

yeah right!

he released a full album of half-good mostly-bad songs with terrible arrangements and truly unlistenable clean vocals!

maybe axl should try releasing some good music for a change!

then maybe no one will care if it is "advanced" or not, as long as it is good!

Great post. I guess it would be advanced material if we were all still in 1999 when Moby and The Prodigy were relevant. 

5 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have never considered Chinese to be that advanced in an electronic sense - or in any kind of sense. The songs are the standard collection of rock songs and ballads - it is just they have bleeps caked over and self-indulgent introductions. It is not exactly Warp Records. In fact I remember being surprised at the time how conservative the album was following ''Oh My God''. And many Guns fans had already dissected Nine Inch Nails to death so ''industrial-rock'' was hardly this ''weird esoteric music'' that ''we could not possibly contemplate because we were all stuck in cock rock mode'' - infact industrial-rock was old hat by 2008. 

 

Well ostensibly the "advanced" material was all saved for Chinese 2 which we haven't heard yet. Those intros you mention are just one of many pointless "flourishes" Axl added to the album - no doubt to spend every last cent of the insane recording budget at his disposal. It's the "Waterworld" of albums. Just like the Estranged video, you get a sense that every penny of the budget is accounted for on the production - but the question you're left with is simply....why?  It's all completely extraneous. Like it's only there because Axl thought it sounded cool - not because any of it actually means something to the song. Did TWAT really need a choir intro/outro? Did Riad need the sci-fi opening? :blink:

Despite a few surface flourishes -- all the endless, evident hours spent on Pro Tools, a hip-hop loop here, a Spanish six-string there, absurd elastic guitar effects -- this is an album unconcerned with the future of rock & roll. One listen and it's abundantly clear that Axl spent the decade-plus in the studio not reinventing but refining, obsessing over a handful of tracks, and spending an inordinate amount of time chasing the sound in his head -- that's it, no more, no less.

Such maniacal indulgence is ridiculous but strangely understandable: Rose received unlimited time and money to create this album, so why not take full advantage and obsess over every last detail? The odd thing is, he spent all this time and money on an album that is deliberately not a grand masterpiece -- a record that pushes limits or digs deep -- but merely a set of 14 songs. Compared to the chaotic Use Your Illusion, Chinese Democracy feels strangely modest, but that's because it's a single polished album, not a double album so overstuffed that it duplicates songs. Modest is an odd word for an album a decade-plus in the making, but Axl's intent is oddly simple: he sees GNR not as a gutter-rock band but as a pomp-rock vehicle for him to lash out against all those who don't trust him, whether it's failed friends, lapsed fans, ex-lovers, former managers, fired bandmates, or rock critics. Chinese Democracy is the best articulation of this megalomania as could be possible, so the only thing to quibble about is his execution, which occasionally is perplexing, particularly when Rose slides into hammy vocal inflections or encourages complicated guitar that only guitarists appreciate (it's telling that the only memorable phrases from Robin Finck, Buckethead, or Bumblefoot or whoever are ones that mimic Slash's full-throated melodic growl). Even with these odd flourishes, it's hard not to marvel, either in respect or bewilderment, at the dense, immaculate wall of god knows how many guitars, synthesizers, vocals, and strings.

It's not just the years of pent-up anticipation, it's that Axl spent so much time creating the music -- constructing the structure and then filling out the frame -- that there's no easy way into the album. That, combined with the realization that Axl isn't trying to reinvent GNR, but just finishing what he started on the Illusions, can make Chinese Democracy seem mildly anticlimactic, but Rose spent a decade-plus working on this -- he deserves to not have it dismissed on a cursory listen. Give it time, listening like it was 1998 and not 2008, and the album does give up some terrific music -- music that is overblown but not overdone.

These aren't innovations; they're extensions of "Breakdown" and "Estranged," epics that require some work to decode because Axl forces the listener to meet him on his own terms. This all-consuming artistic narcissism has become Rose's defining trait, not letting him move forward, but only to relentlessly explore the same territory over and over again. And this solipsism turns Chinese Democracy into something strangely, surprisingly simple: it won't change music, it won't change any lives, it's just 14 more songs about loneliness and persecution.

https://www.allmusic.com/album/chinese-democracy-mw0000802741

Edited by RONIN
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On 20/02/2018 at 10:26 PM, RONIN said:

Despite a few surface flourishes -- all the endless, evident hours spent on Pro Tools, a hip-hop loop here, a Spanish six-string there, absurd elastic guitar effects -- this is an album unconcerned with the future of rock & roll. One listen and it's abundantly clear that Axl spent the decade-plus in the studio not reinventing but refining, obsessing over a handful of tracks, and spending an inordinate amount of time chasing the sound in his head -- that's it, no more, no less.

 

Such maniacal indulgence is ridiculous but strangely understandable: Rose received unlimited time and money to create this album, so why not take full advantage and obsess over every last detail? The odd thing is, he spent all this time and money on an album that is deliberately not a grand masterpiece -- a record that pushes limits or digs deep -- but merely a set of 14 songs. Compared to the chaotic Use Your Illusion, Chinese Democracy feels strangely modest, but that's because it's a single polished album, not a double album so overstuffed that it duplicates songs. Modest is an odd word for an album a decade-plus in the making, but Axl's intent is oddly simple: he sees GNR not as a gutter-rock band but as a pomp-rock vehicle for him to lash out against all those who don't trust him, whether it's failed friends, lapsed fans, ex-lovers, former managers, fired bandmates, or rock critics. Chinese Democracy is the best articulation of this megalomania as could be possible, so the only thing to quibble about is his execution, which occasionally is perplexing, particularly when Rose slides into hammy vocal inflections or encourages complicated guitar that only guitarists appreciate (it's telling that the only memorable phrases from Robin Finck, Buckethead, or Bumblefoot or whoever are ones that mimic Slash's full-throated melodic growl). Even with these odd flourishes, it's hard not to marvel, either in respect or bewilderment, at the dense, immaculate wall of god knows how many guitars, synthesizers, vocals, and strings.

It's not just the years of pent-up anticipation, it's that Axl spent so much time creating the music -- constructing the structure and then filling out the frame -- that there's no easy way into the album. That, combined with the realization that Axl isn't trying to reinvent GNR, but just finishing what he started on the Illusions, can make Chinese Democracy seem mildly anticlimactic, but Rose spent a decade-plus working on this -- he deserves to not have it dismissed on a cursory listen. Give it time, listening like it was 1998 and not 2008, and the album does give up some terrific music -- music that is overblown but not overdone.

These aren't innovations; they're extensions of "Breakdown" and "Estranged," epics that require some work to decode because Axl forces the listener to meet him on his own terms. This all-consuming artistic narcissism has become Rose's defining trait, not letting him move forward, but only to relentlessly explore the same territory over and over again. And this solipsism turns Chinese Democracy into something strangely, surprisingly simple: it won't change music, it won't change any lives, it's just 14 more songs about loneliness and persecution.

https://www.allmusic.com/album/chinese-democracy-mw0000802741

thats a fantastic review if you ask me!

On 20/02/2018 at 3:24 AM, RONIN said:

In a way I'm grateful that he hasn't released all of this material (if it actually exists). It means there's a small sliver of a chance that Duff and Slash can save those songs in the studio. 

i thinnk they can inject some blood on it but to save them you would need that other guy whose name "just escapes me"

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