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US Politics/Elections Thread

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9 hours ago, Dazey said:

I’d like to point out that my earlier post wasn’t accusing you of anything of the sort. I think you’re one of the best posters on here when you’re not making me violently ill by feeding me shots of sambuca! 😂

Thanks Dazey, likewise!  It was just a tongue-in-cheek comment, definitely not directed at you. 

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13 hours ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

North Korea said they're going to stop testing and will abolish their test site. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-kim/north-korea-says-it-will-stop-nuclear-tests-abolish-test-site-kcna-idUSKBN1HR37J

Also, can someone explain to me how someone can sue a country? I saw that the Democratic Party is suing Russia

Whether people will credit Trump or not (Most Democrats will not give him credit for it, most Republicans will give him credit for it)....if the meetings next month go well, Trump will have done what the no president has been able to do over the last 50 years....bring peace to the the Korean peninsula and put an end to North Korea's Nuclear arms program.

Believe it or not, we're talking Nobel Prize stuff here, folks.....yes, Trump could win the Nobel Prize.
 

Edited by Kasanova King

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1 hour ago, Kasanova King said:

Whether people will credit Trump or not (Most Democrats will not give him credit for it, most Republicans will give him credit for it)....if the meetings next month go well, Trump will have done what the no president has been able to do over the last 50 years....bring peace to the the Korean peninsula and put an end to North Korea's Nuclear arms program.

Believe it or not, we're talking Nobel Prize stuff here, folks.....yes, Trump could win the Nobel Prize.
 

If Trump gets it done then I'd absolutely give him credit. I'm sure he's no idea what he's doing but if that works then good luck to him.

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54 minutes ago, Dazey said:

If Trump gets it done then I'd absolutely give him credit. I'm sure he's no idea what he's doing but if that works then good luck to him.

Not so sure. At first all Trump did it was just a war of words like "my red button if bigger than your red button"  The changed started during the Winter Olympics. NK asked to participate. It was SK who was willing to allow that to happen. Both olympic teams became one during the opening ceremony. VP Pence was there. He disrespected both nations by keeping seated. And not showing any politeness. Ivanka made the right move in the closing ceremony. But she doesn't really have an official position in her father's administration. The U.S. State Department doesn't seem to be doing anything. At least not anything tangible at this point. Apparently Trump will meet NK leader. But no place and time has been determined yet. What we have is the leaders of the two Koreas negotiating. NK leader went to China. So he met China's President before eventually meeting Trump. There's seem to be positive signs that's for sure. We'll see where all these is going. If there is some Nobel Peace Price. I'm afraid it will go to the two Koreas. 

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5 hours ago, Dazey said:

If Trump gets it done then I'd absolutely give him credit. I'm sure he's no idea what he's doing but if that works then good luck to him.

Some of the world's greatest accomplishments have just been the piece of shit on the wall that happened to stick.

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I wonder what caused the sudden 180 that NK did? I can't imagine Kim Jong Un having a change of heart and being ready to cooperate so quickly. 

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9 minutes ago, AxlisOld said:

Some of the world's greatest accomplishments have just been the piece of shit on the wall that happened to stick.

Agreed 100%. Obama would never have made it this far because Kim knew he would never have nuked North Korea. Trump literally could do that on a whim. It's terrifying but perversely it might just work. :shrugs: 

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5 hours ago, Dazey said:

If Trump gets it done then I'd absolutely give him credit. I'm sure he's no idea what he's doing but if that works then good luck to him.

He's still a cunt of the highest order.

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Just now, Graeme said:

He's still a cunt of the highest order.

Absolutely agree 100% yet again.

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53 minutes ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

I wonder what caused the sudden 180 that NK did? I can't imagine Kim Jong Un having a change of heart and being ready to cooperate so quickly. 

No one should assume that NK is acting any differently than it has before.  They shut down their missile test sites and missile program back in 2007 only to start them back up again.

If past is prologue, this is just the same song and dance they've always done before.  The only reason why NK would be willing to talk nuclear disarmament is if U.S. accepts N.K. as a sovereign nation with Un the legitimate leader/ruler and removes all its own forces from the Korean peninsula.  I really don't see that happening.  But we'll have to see.  

Another difference this time around is China's lack of support for Un and North Korea.  

Either way, I'm having a hard time understanding how Trump had any influence on how this came about.  

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21 minutes ago, downzy said:

 

Either way, I'm having a hard time understanding how Trump had any influence on how this came about.  

Trump levied among the toughest sanctions ever against NK, got China to also agree to sanctions against NK, got China to take a "neutral" stance and not support Kim or NK and the entire "Trump X Factor"....Kim probably thinks Trump is crazy enough to go to war with NK.

 

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Barbara Bush was laid to rest today.  I always liked her...she was a class act and commanded dignity and respect as a First Lady.  May she rest in peace and find eternal happiness with Christ in heaven.  

 

The funeral for former first lady Barbara Bush, who died earlier this week, was held on Saturday at St. Martin's Episcopal Church in Houston. Guests included former U.S. presidents, first lady Melania Trump, ambassadors and sports celebrities.

The pews filled at a Houston church on Saturday to honor Barbara Bush. The wife of the 41st president and the mother of the 43rd, she died Tuesday at age 92.

Shuttles brought hundreds of guests to St. Martin's Episcopal Church, the family's church since the 1950s. Former President George H.W. Bush, 93, sat in a wheelchair at the front of the sanctuary, next to daughter Dorothy Bush Koch who at times put her arm against him.

First lady Melania Trump was seated in the first row, beside former President Barack Obama, former first lady Michelle Obama and former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton

The hourlong ceremony started with choir music before a standing prayer. NBC News correspondent and Bush's granddaughter Jenna Bush Hager held back tears before presidential historian Jon Meacham began his tribute. He called Bush "a point of light," describing how she hugged HIV-positive children and an adult at a time when the country was reeling from the AIDS epidemic.

 

The speakers also brought a sense of humor to the celebration of Bush's life. Susan Garrett Baker, wife of former Secretary of State James Baker, spoke of Bush as a "feisty" friend who managed 29 homes in 17 cities. She gave voice to homeless advocates yet was also "pen pals with people she never met," like a young girl who named her heifer after Bush and put the "bovine Barbara Bush" in a competition.

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush thanked his mother's caregivers, guests and those who had offered their compassion as her health failed. "Our mom was our first and most important teacher," he said. Some of her lessons included kindness and truthfulness. "She called her style a benevolent dictatorship, but honestly, it wasn't always benevolent," he said, as laughter broke out in the cavernous church.

The Rev. Russell Jones Levenson Jr., rector of St. Martin's Episcopal Church, said Barbara Bush was humble, courageous and "tired of waiting on the next chapter." He quipped that she lacked patience and was probably already discussing her favorite book, Pride and Prejudice. "My guess is she's already hunted down Jane Austen and has said, 'Well how did things turn out with Mr. Darcy and?' Or knowing Barbara as we all do, she may be telling Jane how things should have turned out."

Guests left the service according to Barbara Bush's wishes, singing "Joyful, Joyful, We Adore Thee."

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/21/604588121/barbara-bush-is-laid-to-rest-in-texas

 

 

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4 hours ago, Dazey said:

Agreed 100%. Obama would never have made it this far because Kim knew he would never have nuked North Korea. Trump literally could do that on a whim. It's terrifying but perversely it might just work. :shrugs: 

Same reason Iran gave us back the hostages all of 45 minutes into Reagan's term. Carter was polite and docile, Reagan was "JESUS HE MIGHT BE FUCKING NUTS!"

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Kim got what he wanted. A little bit of saber rattling and now he's in a perfect negotiation power with lots of leverage. Trump going all nuts and threatening with war didn't exactly make people less eager to negotiate with Kim, either. Trump was played.

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13 hours ago, AxlisOld said:

Same reason Iran gave us back the hostages all of 45 minutes into Reagan's term. Carter was polite and docile, Reagan was "JESUS HE MIGHT BE FUCKING NUTS!"

No.  The negotiations for the hostages began in September of 1980 under the Carter administration as a result of Iraq invading Iran, forcing Iran to the plate seeking American help in the war.  It wasn't as though Iran all of sudden decided out of the blue to return some of the hostages because Reagan won the election.  

Moreover...  

Many believe former Iranian President (the Iranian President at the time), former Reagan/Bush campaign staffer and White House analyst Barbara Honegger and several others who accuse the Reagan election campaign of conspiring with the Iranian government to withhold the release of the hostages until after the election.  Keep in mind that Nixon did something similar with the Vietnam War in '68, telling North Korean forces to hold out until after he becomes President and they'd get a better deal, despite the North willing to deal at the Paris Peace talks.  Furthermore, the Reagan administration was caught red handed making illegal deals with the Iranian government only a few years later.   Granted, all of this has never been proven and it exists still in the vapour of conspiracy, but there's both precedent, prologue and and a lot of connected individuals who support the theory.  

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Got to love Trump pushing back on the notion of Cohen flipping on him.  Not because Trump did anything wrong, but because Cohen is a good guy and wouldn't do that to him.  You'd think the obvious answer for Trump would be that Cohen would never flip because there's nothing for him to flip on.  

Oh well...

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

No.  The negotiations for the hostages began in September of 1980 under the Carter administration as a result of Iraq invading Iran, forcing Iran to the plate seeking American help in the war.  It wasn't as though Iran all of sudden decided out of the blue to return some of the hostages because Reagan won the election.  

Moreover...  

Many believe former Iranian President (the current Iranian President at the time), former Reagan/Bush campaign staffer and White House analyst Barbara Honegger and several others who accuse the Reagan election campaign of conspiring with the Iranian government to withhold the release of the hostages until after the election.  Keep in mind that Nixon did something similar with the Vietnam War in '68, telling North Korean forces to hold out until after he becomes President and they'd get a better deal, despite the North willing to deal at the Paris Peace talks.  Furthermore, the Reagan administration was caught red handed making illegal deals with the Iranian government only a few years later.   Granted, all of this has never been proven and it exists still in the vapour of conspiracy, but there's both precedent, prologue and and a lot of connected individuals who support the theory.  

 

I heard it was because they wanted to humiliate Carter by waiting until he was out of office to free the hostages. 

 

It is true the US and other Western powers supplied Irag with weapons and intel, but the CIA also gave the Iranians intel. They didn't want Saddam to dominate the region in case he turns his attention to Saudi Arabia. There could have been more shady deals going on between the Reagan Administration and Iran. 

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5 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

 

I heard it was because they wanted to humiliate Carter by waiting until he was out of office to free the hostages. 

 

It is true the US and other Western powers supplied Irag with weapons and intel, but the CIA also gave the Iranians intel. They didn't want Saddam to dominate the region in case he turns his attention to Saudi Arabia. There could have been more shady deals going on between the Reagan Administration and Iran. 

I think it was more like exchanging hostages for weapons. Selling weapons to Iran. Funding the Contras in Nicaragua

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That is the challenge with defeating Trump...his supporters actually believe he got Kim to the table with all of his school yard bullying and saber rattling when there is most likely a hidden agenda with Kim which has not been played out yet....we have seen this dance with NK before so I am not getting to excited considering what train wreck Trumps foreign policy has been. I find it hard to believe this fool can negotiate a real solution to this issue.....

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Trump is probably the only president who would truly consider some sort of strike on NK and he has cabinet members which would support him. I don't think it's far fetched to say this could have influenced Kim's decision. There are a lot of unknowns- Kim's relationship with China may be privately souring/China may be pressuring him to end the nuclear program, Kim may feel internal pressure within his regime to change directions, Kim may not be truly committed to this...so we will see whether he's just posturing for a better negotiation position or not. 

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16 hours ago, Padme said:

I think it was more like exchanging hostages for weapons. Selling weapons to Iran. Funding the Contras in Nicaragua

 

No, they actually assisted the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq War. It was a covert support to make sure the Iranians bleed the Iraqis.

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Shania Twain taking a beating on social media  for saying if she was American she would have voted for Trump be cause she thinks he is honest.......Trump honest?! .............:facepalm:

She does deserve a bit of a break I guess, being that she is not an American citizen, but come on now does she not follow the news at all?......

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/shania-twain-apologizes-offending-anyone-president-trump-comments-145904791--abc-news-music.html

I have finally conceded  that  this dope actually has a chance to be reelected  and we Americans are doomed...........

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9 hours ago, classicrawker said:

Shania Twain taking a beating on social media  for saying if she was American she would have voted for Trump be cause she thinks he is honest.......Trump honest?! .............:facepalm:

She does deserve a bit of a break I guess, being that she is not an American citizen, but come on now does she not follow the news at all?......

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/shania-twain-apologizes-offending-anyone-president-trump-comments-145904791--abc-news-music.html

I have finally conceded  that  this dope actually has a chance to be reelected  and we Americans are doomed...........

It is funny, I've personally met more Canadians that like Trump more than Trudeau. Given they are older Canadians, so they tend to be more conservative. I told one of them we'll glad trade leaders.

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46 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

It is funny, I've personally met more Canadians that like Trump more than Trudeau. Given they are older Canadians, so they tend to be more conservative. I told one of them we'll glad trade leaders.

I think you'd probably trade almost any other foreign leader for Trump, save for the usual suspects.  I still catch myself from time to time thinking, "holly shit, Donald Trump is the fucking President of the United States."  If you came up with a list of 100 personality traits not wanted in a leader, he'd easily check off 80-90 of them.    

Trudeau is a bit of a numskull, but doesn't deserve a tenth of the scorn heaped his way.  It's likely the result the decade of relatively unfair shit (though in some cases warranted) his predecessor, Conservative PM Stephen Harper, received by centrists and liberals.  

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10 hours ago, classicrawker said:

Shania Twain taking a beating on social media  for saying if she was American she would have voted for Trump be cause she thinks he is honest.......Trump honest?! .............:facepalm:

She does deserve a bit of a break I guess, being that she is not an American citizen, but come on now does she not follow the news at all?......

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/shania-twain-apologizes-offending-anyone-president-trump-comments-145904791--abc-news-music.html

I have finally conceded  that  this dope actually has a chance to be reelected  and we Americans are doomed...........

She's been doing a fair amount of backtracking since.

Interesting article on this over at slate (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/shania-twain-and-the-crisis-of-american-democracy-really.html).

TL;DR - people may not view Trump as "honest," but they see him as authentic.  He lies about stuff that can easily be fact checked but ultimately doesn't work against his perceived authenticity.  He's a big-mouth, asshole, bully who, despite all his flaws, remains consistent in tone and attitude.  That appeals to many when the system for decades has produced packaged individuals who can't say a genuine thing out of fear of saying the wrong thing (cough, Clinton).  Trump doesn't worry about saying the wrong thing because he'll almost never apologize.  And that is what ultimately attracts a certain kind of person to someone like Trump and his brand of politics.  Well, that, and it makes some them feel safe in feeling and saying their bigotry.  They've been told for the last 40+ years to feel ashamed or wrong if they feel or say something racist, bigoted, misogynistic, homophobic, etc.  Trump allows them to feel okay with those feelings and if anyone should give them shit for it, then just use the old adage that don't subscribe to PC culture.  

Here's Marsha Blackburn, Republican Senate candidate for Tennessee, proudly boasting about politically incorrect (0:15):

Actually, check out this short summary of how Trump has changed political discourse:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000005813811/the-strategy-for-some-gop-candidates-sound-like-trump.html

Other than the Wall, Trump's popularity depends less on ideas or policy, but on tone and attitude, which in principle can never be wrong or inaccurate.  It's why Republicans haven't been, nor will they likely, to run on the massive tax breaks they passed earlier this year.  They'll run on tone while stoking fear of the other.  At this point, what's the alternative?  Keep us in power so we can keep giving rich people massive tax breaks while giving crumbs to the poor and middle class?  What happened to caring about the deficit or rebuilding America's infrastructure or repealing Obamacare and replacing it with something far superior?  They've got nothing to offer but fear and derision, which I hope only works for so long.  It's not a governing philosophy, working or otherwise, and I don't see how it's tenable.  It worked after eight years of a Democrat in the White House, but much like the emprorer who has no clothes, eventually (hopefully) enough sane people will see it for what it is - a massive con perpetuated by one of the most weak minded, narcissist, petulant, ignorant, and useless men to ever hold the office of President.  

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