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US Politics/Elections Thread

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11 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

It is funny, I've personally met more Canadians that like Trump more than Trudeau. Given they are older Canadians, so they tend to be more conservative. I told one of them we'll glad trade leaders.

If I can draw a distinction between mainstream Canadian conservatives and the Canadian right wing, I think a lot of it comes down to the Canadian right doesnt have much of its own identity so they tend to mimic the US right.  They even get vocal about issues and causes that aren't even a reality in Canadian politics sometimes, lol.  Whereas mainstream Conservatism in Canada prior to the likes of Stockwell Day, Mike Harris, Jason Kenny and Stephen Harper had a far more moderate and even progressive culture.  The difference is becoming more and more pronounced, even moreso with the advent of the Alt Right.

I think one reason we have a very inexperienced Liberal Party PM is down to the Conservative Party losing its Progressive Conservatives to the Liberals as the Conservative Party appeals more and more directly to right wing values.

Canadians identifying as conservative sure seem to have a lot more right wing views today then conservative identified people did not all that long ago.  I bet some have just been pulled along on inertia without even noticing.

Although, traditionally there has also been a strong minority of libertarians in the conservative fold who no doubt love Trump based of the word "de-regulation" alone.  So no surprise there.

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51 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The world should have listened more when Macron was described as a Blairite. 

I also see some similarities with Blair. But Trump supports Brexit. Macron doesn't. And he is not Eurosceptic neither a protectionist

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5 minutes ago, soon said:

Canadians identifying as conservative sure seem to have a lot more right wing views today then conservative identified people did not all that long ago.  I bet some have just been pulled along on inertia without even noticing.

This phenomenon isn't limited to American or Canadian politics.  Conservative politics is creeping further right around the globe.

Few only a few decades would ever declare themselves a hardcore conservative.  Moderation was always seen as a virtue, but now viewed as a liability.  Moreso on the right, but also we're seeing signs of this dynamic on the left as well.  

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

This phenomenon isn't limited to American or Canadian politics.  Conservative politics is creeping further right around the globe.

Few only a few decades would ever declare themselves a hardcore conservative.  Moderation was always seen as a virtue, but now viewed as a liability.  Moreso on the right, but also we're seeing signs of this dynamic on the left as well.  

I agree completely.  Was just speaking about Canadian supporters of Trump specifically in this case.

Im really saddened by the rapid regression of leftism in Canada, too.  Im embarrassed to be associated with the umbrella term "left" at this point.  How did we (leftists) get from being rooted in Class Solidarity and intergenerational movements to being rooted in the Identity Politics of undergrads so fast?  They're nearly opposite theories in some regards.  At least these slactavists primarily just dress up like European-style anti-fascists and yell at poor people with less access to education then they themselves have. :facepalm: 

Even the term antifa is its self a sign of the erosion.  Because in NA we had a very well established system of Anti-Racist-Action collectives (ARA's) with prominent figures like Scott Crow. They serve an identical function as Antifa (I mean as real European antifa). We all worked so hard to train, educate and build infrastructure only for teenagers to become enthralled with an identical system but under a new exotic name, with no infrastructure, knowledge base or context in the communities, like ARAs have. One used to need to come up through Food Not Bombs, build trust, attend workshops, build skills, join Cop Watch and then join an ARA collective; now they just buy an antifa flag online and voila. I dont know of any imprisoned ARA cadre who are receiving any commissary, books or letters from these bad ass kids.

But the emergent 'left' are some how rubbing off on others in the movement(s) and certainly impacting the national dialogue.  And the slightly older professionalized activists/ NGOers are happily adapting to this nonsense.  

Sorry, :lol: rant/

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36 minutes ago, soon said:

Canadians identifying as conservative sure seem to have a lot more right wing views today then conservative identified people did not all that long ago.  I bet some have just been pulled along on inertia without even noticing

 

28 minutes ago, downzy said:

Few only a few decades would ever declare themselves a hardcore conservative

I think a few things are at work here..for one, I don't recall there being such a divide between liberal and conservative ideologies when I was younger, as a matter of fact I think liberal platform of previous generations have kind of morphed into the more conservative side of things, while the liberal of today seems much more far left...of course, that could also be because of optics of age, which brings me to my second point.. I really do think age is a factor in more people leaning right as they get older...not necessarily because their ideologies have changed, or that they disagree with those ideologies professed in the liberal platform, but more that their priorities have changed. When you are just a joe schmoe working without a union behind you, no guaranteed wage hikes, no pension, perhaps even no drug plan, but still make enough to not qualify for any social benefits or tax breaks, it's very hard to get ahead in today's world. And as retirement approaches, and you are just trying to pay your mortgage and take care of your children, and can't afford the house prices where you work and so move farther away, and gas prices eat most of that cost cutting measure, and food is increasingly expensive, and property taxes are high, and if you are trying to start your own business you now have to pay mandatory sick days and full day wages for stat holidays where you are not bringing in any money, etc etc the list goes on, then you start to get scared. and take a harder look at where you consider your government is perhaps wasting money..and for these people, of which I am closer and closer to every day :lol: things like LGBTQ washrooms and such, really do lose their importance next to the realities and responsibilities of life and somehow making it through retirement with a sustainable amount of money to live on.

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8 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

 

I think a few things are at work here..for one, I don't recall there being such a divide between liberal and conservative ideologies when I was younger, as a matter of fact I think liberal platform of previous generations have kind of morphed into the more conservative side of things, while the liberal of today seems much more far left...of course, that could also be because of optics of age, which brings me to my second point.. I really do think age is a factor in more people leaning right as they get older...not necessarily because their ideologies have changed, or that they disagree with those ideologies professed in the liberal platform, but more that their priorities have changed. When you are just a joe schmoe working without a union behind you, no guaranteed wage hikes, no pension, perhaps even no drug plan, but still make enough to not qualify for any social benefits or tax breaks, it's very hard to get ahead in today's world. And as retirement approaches, and you are just trying to pay your mortgage and take care of your children, and can't afford the house prices where you work and so move farther away, and gas prices eat most of that cost cutting measure, and food is increasingly expensive, and property taxes are high, and if you are trying to start your own business you now have to pay mandatory sick days and full day wages for stat holidays where you are not bringing in any money, etc etc the list goes on, then you start to get scared. and take a harder look at where you consider your government is perhaps wasting money..and for these people, of which I am closer and closer to every day :lol: things like LGBTQ washrooms and such, really do lose their importance next to the realities and responsibilities of life and somehow making it through retirement with a sustainable amount of money to live on.

I agree the Liberal and Conservative Parties used to be more similar by and large.  And this is where the presence of Red Tories was a huge benefit to Canadians.  "Red" indicating both the traditional colours of Socialism and the current colour of the Liberal Party Canada.  "Tories" indicating fiscal conservatism and a celebration of traditional family units.  When they were a real power block one didnt have to choose hardcore conservative/right leaning leadership just to have their fiscal desires represented on the Hill.  

I find Preston Manning to be an interesting and righteous dude, even as far away on the spectrum I am.  And I can even offer Mulroney props for his attention to the environment and attempts made in his way to make right relations with Indigenous folks.  And theyd be considered right wing populists in their day.

Red Tories are a rare breed these days, sadly.  Especially since the merger of the Progressive Conservatives, Alliance Party, Reform Party in 2004.  The PC's and reform were more centrist then todays monolithic Conservative Party Canada which maintains a lot of the Alliance Parties right wing appeal and principals.  Spotting a true Red Tory is like a big foot sighting now.  But I did smooch one not that long ago, so I can report they do exist, lol.  She used to work on the Hill but doesnt any more...

I would say though, that a lot of the issues you raise are also well serviced by the NDP.  The NDP are also, so far, less into virtue singling and pandering to student leftism then the Trudeau Liberals have been.  Its nice to have options in this Country - because they're all far from perfect.

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I knew Macron would charm trump. He seduced his teacher to become his wife. Then again, he is French.

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10 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

 

I think a few things are at work here..for one, I don't recall there being such a divide between liberal and conservative ideologies when I was younger, as a matter of fact I think liberal platform of previous generations have kind of morphed into the more conservative side of things, while the liberal of today seems much more far left...of course, that could also be because of optics of age, which brings me to my second point.. I really do think age is a factor in more people leaning right as they get older...not necessarily because their ideologies have changed, or that they disagree with those ideologies professed in the liberal platform, but more that their priorities have changed. When you are just a joe schmoe working without a union behind you, no guaranteed wage hikes, no pension, perhaps even no drug plan, but still make enough to not qualify for any social benefits or tax breaks, it's very hard to get ahead in today's world. And as retirement approaches, and you are just trying to pay your mortgage and take care of your children, and can't afford the house prices where you work and so move farther away, and gas prices eat most of that cost cutting measure, and food is increasingly expensive, and property taxes are high, and if you are trying to start your own business you now have to pay mandatory sick days and full day wages for stat holidays where you are not bringing in any money, etc etc the list goes on, then you start to get scared. and take a harder look at where you consider your government is perhaps wasting money..and for these people, of which I am closer and closer to every day :lol: things like LGBTQ washrooms and such, really do lose their importance next to the realities and responsibilities of life and somehow making it through retirement with a sustainable amount of money to live on.

It's a myth that people become more conservative as they get older, at least in the United States.  

Data shows that a person's allegiance to a party or partisanship grows with each successive election they participate in, whether liberal or conservative.  That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions within one election cycle or amongst individual voters, but by and large, a person's attachment to a party or political ideology grows with each successive election they vote their preference.  Again, it doesn't matter whether they begin liberal or conservative.  

What matters more is the political climate when a person begins to become more politically engaged.  There are moments of realignments, such as the New Deal that disrupted previous political alignments and the ascendancy of Ronald Reagan and the conservative resurgence of the 1980s (which we're still living through).  But these political realignments are rare and often occur once every 40 to 70 years (again, looking at American political history).  That's why Obama's two terms and ability to endear him and his political values to first and second time voters could be, and I argue will be, the starting point of when of conservatism in American politics begins to wane from its dominance on the last 40 years.  History and data tells us that those first and second time voters for Obama are likely to not only vote Democrat but will grow stronger in their liberal political leanings.  The dumpster fire that is the Trump administration will likely only exacerbate this dynamic, with the growing and rising liberal millennial generation eventually taking over from a shrinking conservative coalition.   

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3 minutes ago, Padme said:

Some good new for Republicans in Arizona. They won a special election for a House seat. The thing is it was by a small margin. So Democrats were competitive in a deep red district

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/politics/lesko-wins-but-not-good-gop/index.html

 

God, I fucking hate Glendale. 

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Shame. Cute couple.  Frenchy Euro charm and American bluster and gusto.

(I wonder what their kids would've looked like?).

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21 hours ago, downzy said:

It's a myth that people become more conservative as they get older, at least in the United States.  

For me this is true....I have known since I was 10 years old that I was conservative. That was many many years ago lol. But it never changed.

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1 hour ago, -W.A.R- said:

Kanye is trolling everybody and its hilarious to watch.

Kanye has supported Trump for a while now....so not so sure why everyone is so shocked about it now.

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7 hours ago, classicrawker said:

Macron challenges Trump policies  in an address to Congress.........not a good sign for their bromance I think............:lol:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/politics/france-president-emmanuel-macron-joint-address-congress/index.html

 

He was adressing the de facto heads of the US Government, since the current head of state is too inept. 

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On 4/23/2018 at 10:02 PM, downzy said:

I think you'd probably trade almost any other foreign leader for Trump, save for the usual suspects.  I still catch myself from time to time thinking, "holly shit, Donald Trump is the fucking President of the United States."  If you came up with a list of 100 personality traits not wanted in a leader, he'd easily check off 80-90 of them.    

Trudeau is a bit of a numskull, but doesn't deserve a tenth of the scorn heaped his way.  It's likely the result the decade of relatively unfair shit (though in some cases warranted) his predecessor, Conservative PM Stephen Harper, received by centrists and liberals.  

Trudeau is a pandering little bitch and you know it. Fuck, I'd take Hitlery for prez over Trudeau.

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1 hour ago, AxlisOld said:

Trudeau is a pandering little bitch and you know it. Fuck, I'd take Hitlery for prez over Trudeau.

The forum’s resident Trump supporter/voter expressing his preference for Hitler.

Why am I not surprised. :shrugs:

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4 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Kanye has supported Trump for a while now....so not so sure why everyone is so shocked about it now.

Not that it matters, but I believe it's because that time he talked about supporting Trump a while ago was immediate before being checked into a mental hospital, so it offered a reason for people to discount it. 

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6 hours ago, downzy said:

The forum’s resident Trump supporter/voter expressing his preference for Hitler.

Why am I not surprised. :shrugs:

Pretty sure he's referencing Hillary Clinton, not Hitler. ;)

 

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54 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Pretty sure he's referencing Hillary Clinton, not Hitler. ;)

 

I know, but considering how inane the comment is, I figured a similar response was appropriate.  

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