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US Politics/Elections Thread

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Just now, wasted said:

Cheaper and gets less people killed. But as we’ve seen nobody wants to deal with it. 

Because its hateful trash that belongs in the dust bins of history in most cases. In other cases his weapon is confusion and stupidity as a means of community building.

Trumps foreign policy is abysmal as well. As is his exopolitical posturing.

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55 minutes ago, soon said:

Because its hateful trash that belongs in the dust bins of history in most cases. In other cases his weapon is confusion and stupidity as a means of community building.

Trumps foreign policy is abysmal as well. As is his exopolitical posturing.

Trump is no smooth talker but 63 million people voted for him. He’s not a good enough politician to present the rhetoric in a charming way. In a way he’s not the right guy for the job but he’s the guy was willing or able to bulldoze his way into the Clinton choke hold. 

That may be all true but how is Obama bombing Yemen into the ground to placate the Saudis over the Iran deal any better. 

A lot of people disagreed with that and Trump sensed it. I’m not saying he’s anti war, he’s a big macho tough guy idiot or at least he tries to be. But look how left and right closed ranks when he wanted to end regime change in Syria. 

I think a lot of this it’s trash/hate is overblown. Trump just wants to secure the border. I get that it’s just one one side of the sell. Repubs go to Finance and Fear. Dems go Fantasy and Fame. 

I guess when you have an anti war perspective you see things different. Being on the left I feel that it’s part of my lifestyle, the people I hang out with to hate on the right wing demagogue and getting recognition for that is part of the game. Trump is going to offer you money and fear. But to me it’s two sides of the coin. 

Looking past all that, it looks that Trump is the scapegoat to let Obama and Bush off the hook for everyone they got killed. Unless there’s honesty and context it just reinforces that it’s all just one big corporate statist gangbang. 

Like I said Trump’s biggest mistake was to try to stop regime change in Syria. That’s where the money’s at right there. Tax cuts, pumping up the military, setting up the biggest spying network in history, drone bombing the poorest countries is nothing to worry about. But if you go after the regime changes in ME the whole system will turn on you. Luckily all Trump’s cabinet have been removed and replaced by neo cons. Trump has somehow become a neo con puppet in 2 years, they got him. 

It was kind of interesting to watch and it confirms it’s never going to happen. When they are done with Yemen they will move on ro Iran. And probably double cross Saudis too in the end. You can’t turn the plane around. 

Edited by wasted

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:P

On 11/13/2018 at 2:18 PM, Oldest Goat said:

*Benny Hill music*

 

Edited by triad
to apologize for being off topic
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12 hours ago, wasted said:

Trump is no smooth talker but 63 million people voted for him. He’s not a good enough politician to present the rhetoric in a charming way. In a way he’s not the right guy for the job but he’s the guy was willing or able to bulldoze his way into the Clinton choke hold. 

That may be all true but how is Obama bombing Yemen into the ground to placate the Saudis over the Iran deal any better. 

A lot of people disagreed with that and Trump sensed it. I’m not saying he’s anti war, he’s a big macho tough guy idiot or at least he tries to be. But look how left and right closed ranks when he wanted to end regime change in Syria. 

I think a lot of this it’s trash/hate is overblown. Trump just wants to secure the border. I get that it’s just one one side of the sell. Repubs go to Finance and Fear. Dems go Fantasy and Fame. 

I guess when you have an anti war perspective you see things different. Being on the left I feel that it’s part of my lifestyle, the people I hang out with to hate on the right wing demagogue and getting recognition for that is part of the game. Trump is going to offer you money and fear. But to me it’s two sides of the coin. 

Looking past all that, it looks that Trump is the scapegoat to let Obama and Bush off the hook for everyone they got killed. Unless there’s honesty and context it just reinforces that it’s all just one big corporate statist gangbang. 

Like I said Trump’s biggest mistake was to try to stop regime change in Syria. That’s where the money’s at right there. Tax cuts, pumping up the military, setting up the biggest spying network in history, drone bombing the poorest countries is nothing to worry about. But if you go after the regime changes in ME the whole system will turn on you. Luckily all Trump’s cabinet have been removed and replaced by neo cons. Trump has somehow become a neo con puppet in 2 years, they got him. 

It was kind of interesting to watch and it confirms it’s never going to happen. When they are done with Yemen they will move on ro Iran. And probably double cross Saudis too in the end. You can’t turn the plane around. 

It can be productive to compare Presidents. But its not a tool I would engage in when its poised as a deflection from the unique reality of the Trump Regime. "Sure he identifies as a Nationalist, but Killary was legal counsel for Walmart..." It simply doens't advance analysis of the current shit show. So therefore I don't see it as a useful tool. Also, the US military is still active in Yemen.

Living in a democracy that isn't limited to 2 parties I don't have the requisite "us against them" spirit to entertain the 'you attack our guy, we'll attack yours' game play. I actually find it spicy to have romance 'across the aisle.'

12 hours ago, wasted said:

I think a lot of this it’s trash/hate is overblown. Trump just wants to secure the border.

Bullshit. Honestly Id wager at this point that someone making this claim is incredibly uniformed or completely into the hate. I guess the 3rd option would be that someone made a poor judgement about Trump in 2015 and has some need to remain entrenched in an incorrect position. I wouldn't know if one needs better news sources, psycho therapy, or both.

The most generous light to view that incorrect assertion would be that one is warning against reactionary thought. The hatred the regime breeds and feeds off of is something that requires address. What makes the reaction seem 'big' is the substance it is reacting too.

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2 minutes ago, soon said:

It can be productive to compare Presidents. But its not a tool I would engage in when its poised as a deflection from the unique reality of the Trump Regime. "Sure he identifies as a Nationalist, but Killary was legal counsel for Walmart..." It simply doens't advance analysis of the current shit show. So therefore I don't see it as a useful tool. Also, the US military is still active in Yemen.

Living in a democracy that isn't limited to 2 parties I don't have the requisite "us against them" spirit to entertain the 'you attack our guy, we'll attack yours' game play. I actually find it spicy to have romance 'across the aisle.'

Bullshit. Honestly Id wager at this point that someone making this claim is incredibly uniformed or completely into the hate. I guess the 3rd option would be that someone made a poor judgement about Trump in 2015 and has some need to remain entrenched in an incorrect position. I wouldn't know if one needs better news sources, psycho therapy, or both.

The most generous light to view that incorrect assertion would be that one is warning against reactionary thought. The hatred the regime breeds and feeds off of is something that requires address. What makes the reaction seem 'big' is the substance it is reacting too.

I do just think it’s how you interpret it. But it’s basically not that much of  a threat. What I do have more of a problem with is that he’s continuing the wars. The point is Trump isn’t better, he’s about the same. Especially given that he can’t get much passed anyway and the system is such they he’ll be gone soon enough. But I don’t think the next one will be better. 3-0 baby!

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7 hours ago, wasted said:

I do just think it’s how you interpret it.

I observe 'it' as a series of facts and observations whose veracity can be tested.

7 hours ago, wasted said:

The point is Trump isn’t better, he’s about the same.

Trump is a Birther. Obama is the person that racism was targeted at.

7 hours ago, wasted said:

But I don’t think the next one will be better.

That is a major concern. Trump is lowering the bar to an unthinkable degree.

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3 hours ago, soon said:

I observe 'it' as a series of facts and observations whose veracity can be tested.

Trump is a Birther. Obama is the person that racism was targeted at.

That is a major concern. Trump is lowering the bar to an unthinkable degree.

I take a more broad general view of things. I don’t isolate rhetoric and also I’m not disturbed by Donnie’s polemics.

I just don’t buy there’s any ideological thinking behind his words. He’s just a cartoon of a republican in a way and he’s picked a role he can play. 

His version of nationalism is like some guy in Cabo shaving USA into his chest hair at the pool. I can see how that might worry some people though. 

But overall as we’ve seen any more extreme tendacies he may have are kept in check by the system. 

Obama was very capable politician and could get a lot of things through without us noticing. Trump on the other hand has a make a giant ass of himself to distract us from those things. He’s smart in a way but he has to take a lot more heat. But in the end he’s getting what he wants.  

Edited by wasted

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15 minutes ago, wasted said:

I just don’t buy there’s any ideological thinking behind his words. He’s just a cartoon of a republican in a way and he’s picked a role he can play. 

True. Trump is a liar.

When you find yourself defending someone because they are a liar, then you have taken a wrong turn.

16 minutes ago, wasted said:

His version of nationalism is like some guy in Cabo shaving USA into his chest hair at the pool. I can see how that might worry some people though. 

Nah. His version of Nationalism is working with Bannon, Miller and Sessions. His version of being a Nationalist is being reticent to denounce (White) Nationalists after they murder. His version is preaching racism from his platform as POTUS. His boring old version of Nationalism is spreading xenophobia. His version is travel bans. His version is deploying excessive army assets to the border because migrants are approaching, despite the fact that US Law and International Treaties allow for migrants to seek entry.

 

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4 hours ago, soon said:

 

Trump is a Birther. Obama is the person that racism was targeted at.

That is a major concern. Trump is lowering the bar to an unthinkable degree.

How is Trump lowering the bar? 

The overwhelming left leaning bias from the news media, education, pop culture is pretty nauseating. To pretend Trump was the one that lowered the bar is to lie. Six years ago the Democrats were screaming that Mitt Romney was going to put black people back in chains. 

The fear mongering hysteria that comes with the left is the exact reason I stopped being a Democrat. Trump was elected because BOTH parties ignored the middle class. The middle class was/is dying and the Democrats were too busy playing identity politics and they lost. It’s funny to me that the media turns it into racism,white nationalism, sexism, bigotry, Russia, etc etc and Democrats just go down the rabbit hole and ignore wtf actually happened. 

The majority of the country may want a more socialist leaning country, and that’s cool but how do you pay for it? 70% of the federal budget already goes to entitlements. The US healthcare system is in shambles because it’s been heavily regulated by government. What makes anyone think the government can do anything right? Capitalism isn’t perfect. Its flawed af, but I would rather die without a dime to my name because of my own doing than have big government in my life. 

Edited by Download
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1 minute ago, Download said:

The fear mongering hysteria that comes with the left is the exact reason I stopped being a Democrat. Trump was elected because BOTH parties ignored the the middle class. The middle class was/is dying and the Democrats were too playing identity politics and they lost. It’s funny to me that the media turns it into racism,white nationalism, sexism, bigotry, Russia, etc etc and Democrats just go down the rabbit hole and ignore wtf actually happened. 

The majority of the country may want a more socialist leaning country, and that’s cool but how do you pay for it? 70% of the federal budget already goes to entitlements. The US healthcare system is in shambles because it’s been heavily regulated by government. What makes anyone think the government can do anything right? Capitalism isn’t perfect. Its flawed af, but I would rather die without a dime to my name because of my own doing than have big government in my life. 

Why are you talking about capitalism v socialism?

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2 hours ago, soon said:

True. Trump is a liar.

When you find yourself defending someone because they are a liar, then you have taken a wrong turn.

Nah. His version of Nationalism is working with Bannon, Miller and Sessions. His version of being a Nationalist is being reticent to denounce (White) Nationalists after they murder. His version is preaching racism from his platform as POTUS. His boring old version of Nationalism is spreading xenophobia. His version is travel bans. His version is deploying excessive army assets to the border because migrants are approaching, despite the fact that US Law and International Treaties allow for migrants to seek entry.

 

That’s not really very well developed doctorine and Bannon is long gone so it’s just looking like a neo con agenda now. 

The outrage seems a little hysterical. I suppose what I don’t get is why immigration and identity politics gets all the outrage and gov spending and slaughtering 100,000s of people in pointless wars hardly gets a mention. These are the bigger problems that have spanned the last 3 prezs. Trump wanting to get immigration under control is what 60 mil Americans voted for. It’s a complicated issue that needs to be worked out calmly. 

Without looking at Honduras, I’ve got a feeling that distasterous US foreign policy probably led to a lot of people needing to move somewhere else. I mean that’s all it is. I’m for open borders, but when people voice their concerns it needs to be addfressed. 

I’m not defending Trump in anyway, to defend a politician is a folly. How anyone can look at the last 3 presidencies and see any good guys is beyond me. I’m saying hate Trump for the right reasons. Don’t make it about race relations look at the deeper problems that led to certain people in the US feeling hard done by.  Vote Wasted 2020, viva la advocados!

 

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11 minutes ago, wasted said:

That’s not really very well developed doctorine and Bannon is long gone so it’s just looking like a neo con agenda now. 

The outrage seems a little hysterical. I suppose what I don’t get is why immigration and identity politics gets all the outrage and gov spending and slaughtering 100,000s of people in pointless wars hardly gets a mention. These are the bigger problems that have spanned the last 3 prezs. Trump wanting to get immigration under control is what 60 mil Americans voted for. It’s a complicated issue that needs to be worked out calmly. 

Without looking at Honduras, I’ve got a feeling that distasterous US foreign policy probably led to a lot of people needing to move somewhere else. I mean that’s all it is. I’m for open borders, but when people voice their concerns it needs to be addfressed. 

I’m not defending Trump in anyway, to defend a politician is a folly. How anyone can look at the last 3 presidencies and see any good guys is beyond me. I’m saying hate Trump for the right reasons. Don’t make it about race relations look at the deeper problems that led to certain people in the US feeling hard done by.  Vote Wasted 2020, viva la advocados!

 

 

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20 minutes ago, soon said:

 

Pics? No fair, you know I live under the iron fist. 

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7 hours ago, Download said:

The majority of the country may want a more socialist leaning country, and that’s cool but how do you pay for it? 70% of the federal budget already goes to entitlements. The US healthcare system is in shambles because it’s been heavily regulated by government. What makes anyone think the government can do anything right? Capitalism isn’t perfect. Its flawed af, but I would rather die without a dime to my name because of my own doing than have big government in my life. 

So there is a devastated hurricane, earthquake or fire. You lost everything. Yet you will be the happiest person in the world as long as the Government leaves you on your own? Your wife or children die of a serious illness because you couldn't afford health insurance. But you are happy about it because the Government was not in your life to help you and them.

Carefull what you wish for. You may have it

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If the gov hadn’t taken half my money I could have a private army and bought a hospital. Also just give me the codeine, brother.  Instead of looking for help from the gov, wadaboutya neighbour? The callous politicians pass the hate down.i’ve got insurance so I’ll let your family die. That’s the message. If the homeless put their hand out the answer is the state should help them. Freedom is you give them a small c note and go home to your mansion. Alec baldwin isn’t giving any immigrants a bed tonight? 

Edited by wasted

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9 hours ago, wasted said:

Pics? No fair, you know I live under the iron fist. 

Oh right, I forgot. But that itself is note worthy. You are comfortable living under authoritarian rule. Makes sense that you are comfortable with the authoritarian tendencies of Trump.

So, keeping in mind you dont have access to YT and news media is more restricted then in the West - you dont really get to see Trump in his full rally glory ever do you? That explains a lot!!!!!!!

Edited by soon

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12 hours ago, soon said:

Oh right, I forgot. But that itself is note worthy. You are comfortable living under authoritarian rule. Makes sense that you are comfortable with the authoritarian tendencies of Trump.

So, keeping in mind you dont have access to YT and news media is more restricted then in the West - you dont really get to see Trump in his full rally glory ever do you? That explains a lot!!!!!!!

I’ve got all the channels like CNN. Nothing is blocked other than the BBC which is something to do with internet settings rather than content. 

Some might say the US is under authoratarian control the people just don’t realise. We all live under the state. US has a kot of fascist tendencies too. 

There’s pros and cons. In China there’s less religious influence and they don’t have an out of control war machine getting people killed. Also family values are pretty strong. I don’t really understand the culture really, these are just impressions or guesses to how it can produce such a peaceful and successful place. People do work pretty hard here though. 

It is kind of authoratarian capitalism v democractic capitalism. The democractic side seems to cause a lot of trouble. As we’ve seen there’s always this fight over how the US should be doing things. 

China makes everything, tge US consumes it. Welcome to Chimerica. 

 

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