Jump to content
downzy

US Politics/Elections Thread

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, Download said:

 

Walls around a home and country are the exact same principle. 

No they are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Download said:

Wasn’t Slash met at the gate by Beta?  Didn’t he hand her a note to give to Axl? 

Theres many version of the story. But in the version you've utilized, you've basically described how little a wall does to stop the flow of contraband. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, soon said:

Theres many version of the story. But in the version you've utilized, you've basically described how little a wall does to stop the flow of contraband. 

Ok, well scale Axl’s wall today and film it. 

Post the results here. 

 

3 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

No they are not.

How so? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess as far as border security goes, it comes down to just a couple of real issues. 

Are the citizens of the United States allowed to say who comes into their country or not? 

Are the citizens allowed to secure the border of the country they live in? 

We can argue about a wall or not, that’s fine. It’s that When both parties start to ignore the people that voted them in then you will have exactly what’s going on in Venezuela right now.  Thankfully Washington DC is built for gridlock, so as divided as the country is neither side is going to experience much success

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AtariLegend said:

Is the National Enquirer the equivalent to the UK's Daily Express?

I think it's more like The Sunday Sport  

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Download said:

Inequalities go out of whack when you deviate away from free market enterprise and if you disagree with that then you really need to learn your history.

Utter nonsense.  By that logic we'd see less inequality in countries with economies considered more free than others (and by freer I mean less taxation, less progressive taxation, less government regulation or ownership of industries).  But that's clearly not the case.  Countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Canada, France, the UK all have relatively free economies but relative to the US have economies that are considered more regulated.  But we see drastically lower wealth inequality in those other countries than in the US.

Even looking at America's own history, it exhibited less inequality between rich and poor when there was strong federal and state intervention with respect to industrial and labour policies.  The U.S. economy was highly regulated through the 1940s and 1950s, a period of robust economic growth and far less wealth concentration.  

Again, please stop stooping to inane straw man arguments that supposes that people like myself and @OmarBradley are arguing against free markets.  I would bet a good chunk of change you don't even know what a free market is relative to how national economies operate.  It's a slogan championed by political weasels who bank on people not knowing anything about economics.  America has never had a truly free market.  Almost since its inception the U.S economy has been dominated by giant corporations, political favourism, lack of price competition, federal industrial policy, etc.  The issue is finding a balance between free markets and market excesses.  The biggest lesson from the Great Depression is that economies can't self-regulate itself.  A lesson that has largely been lost to sadly growing population who eat up bullshit Republican (the same party that protects government subsidies for numerous industries) dogma.   

Quote

The only cases in recorded history that helps the lot of the masses escape the poverty you're so worried about is a free market enterprise. History is actually crystal clear on that subject.  

Only someone who has never studied history would utter something so profoundly ignorant.  

Quote

Walls around a home and country are the exact same principle. There are lots of people that need to get into Axl's home to escape poverty or threats to their life. How is it different exactly?  You're actually arguing for double standards, lol.

Nobody needs to enter Axl's property escape poverty or to achieve relative safety.  There are a million other options in the U.S. for people who are that desperate.  The same can't be said for the people of Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and many parts Mexico. 

  • GNFNR 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Download said:

Why do you care about how much money the Uber wealthy has and how they should be spending it? Or billionaires? How much of their wealth should they be entitled to? 

How do you just dismiss 78 Billion dollars in welfare fraud? Or improper payments that include welfare fraud. Because it doesn’t fit your narrative? 78 Billion dollars in oops I sent the wrong amount to someone? 😂 Oops the government messed up but just tax the wealthy more and we’ll get it right. 

As far as the wall goes, I don’t really care. The wall is not a hill I would die on. Yeah, walls work. 

100%? No, but they work. Do walls and gates help keep Axl safe in his Malibu mansion? Do you think he’s all for removing that security wall around his house or gate at the entrance of his driveway? 

I care when the uber wealthy profiteer on exploited workers (not all of them do, but a hell of a lot of them do) AND then have the audacity to use tax havens, loopholes, long term capital gains, etc.. I am not necessarily anti-billionaire. But I am anti-billionaires who use every means available to greedily claw as much wealth into their bank accounts as possible while clearly invoking ethical issues and sometimes legal ones.   

Did you not read either of the posts in response to your welfare fraud claim? It was not dismissed, but it was explained that you are using the figure incorrectly. Did you read the quote that literally said not all improper payments = a fiscal loss? It really seems like you're either ignoring or not understanding the evidence you've been presented. On the topic of narratives, I see you've shifted your narrative from "people abuse welfare" to "the government messed up," so you did read and comprehend some of what was said. But you're still bending facts to fit your narrative.

7 hours ago, Download said:

Inequalities go out of whack when you deviate away from free market enterprise and if you disagree with that then you really need to learn your history. The only cases in recorded history that helps the lot of the masses escape the poverty you're so worried about is a free market enterprise. History is actually crystal clear on that subject.  

Walls around a home and country are the exact same principle. There are lots of people that need to get into Axl's home to escape poverty or threats to their life. How is it different exactly?  You're actually arguing for double standards, lol.

What does 'deviate away from the free market' mean to you? Taxing the uber wealthy at a rate comparable to average people is deviating from the free market? Closing loopholes and pursuing tax avoidance is deviating from the free market? 

Where is the liberal assault on the free market? Last I checked, establishment Dems are still too close to Wall Street and corporations for my liking.

Walls around a home vs. a country are not the same principle. The idea of the wall is similar in each case: protect those inside the wall's bounds. But there are many more variables involved in determining a border security solution's viability. And there have been plenty of cases of walled homes being broken into - George Harrison comes to mind.  

6 hours ago, Download said:

I guess as far as border security goes, it comes down to just a couple of real issues. 

Are the citizens of the United States allowed to say who comes into their country or not? 

Are the citizens allowed to secure the border of the country they live in? 

We can argue about a wall or not, that’s fine. It’s that When both parties start to ignore the people that voted them in then you will have exactly what’s going on in Venezuela right now.  Thankfully Washington DC is built for gridlock, so as divided as the country is neither side is going to experience much success

The government manages immigration and border security, not the citizens. We elect officials (who then appoint other officials who then hire other officials), but we do not have the right as citizens to determine who can come in and how we address security issues. Your vote and calls/emails/letters to your federal officials are the means in which you can exercise your view. I'm anticipating you using the "Trump won, so his will must be executed" argument, but I'd caution you to remember many presidents have won elections and none of them had 100% of their policies enacted simply because they won. Winning means you get to bring your policy to the discussion table, not that it will be executed immediately and without discussion.

And you're talking about the wrong security issues. Immigrants commit crime at the same rate (or lower depending on the study) as citizens. The data is foggier on illegal immigrants, but it still implies a commensurate or lower crime rate vs. citizens. Much of (possibly most of, but I'm so tired of doing your research for you and you seem to dismiss/ignore it anyway) immigrant crime is projected toward other immigrants too. 

 

Edited by OmarBradley
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

I hope the democrats will use the Green New Deal as their main platform in 2020.

Highly unlikely, though it depends on the eventual nominee.  

I have hard time believing someone like Biden or Brown would make it part of their platform. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Biden is probably the most winnable potential candidate at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, OmarBradley said:

we do not have the right as citizens to determine who can come in and how we address security issues.

 

Wow, holy shit. Just wow. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

I hope the democrats will use the Green New Deal as their main platform in 2020.

 

8 hours ago, downzy said:

Highly unlikely, though it depends on the eventual nominee.  

I have hard time believing someone like Biden or Brown would make it part of their platform. 

This plan is just hot off the grill. It hasn't been passed yet. Even if the House pass it. We don't know what the Senate is going to do. There are plans for rural areas. I guess Biden and Brown might be interested. So far it's just a start

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Download it's not racist, xenophobic or bigoted to have border control. It's a sensible, totally reasonable and obvious necessity.

My country has the luxury of being in the middle of the ocean far away from nearly every other country on earth the closest being places like Aussie, Fiji and Antarctica and we have rather strict border control on top of that, for example, you will be sent back to where you came from if you have dirt on your shoes and refuse to submit them for cleaning. This is for the purpose of environmental protection not a power trip. Still, things like drugs get through.

A wall is not going to magically solve or noticeably reduce the issue for you, it is merely a token gesture peddled by Trump who is a demagogue.

It is xenophobic etc putting unnecessary focus and disdain on immigrants/refugees/foreigners and using them as a scapegoat. 

Another thing, I have zero issue with others getting rich. I remember seeing a stupid student being interviewed saying 90% of the the 1%'s wealth should be taxed, I laughed. That being said, you are able to make your money in society because everyone's trying to work together and pays their taxes...but you think you're above all that? You want to swoop in, take what you can of the pie and everyone else be damned. Like a greedy, entitled, spoiled brat. It's honestly like listening to a bitchy teenage girl whine about how she deserves to get what she wants because she like totally works like way harder than everyone else and is like super smart, we just don't get that since we're lame. Grow up and act like a man your lack of compassion, morals and intellect is disgraceful. Take a step back and actually observe your thoughts...you look after your family first of course, but do you give a shit about your fellow Americans/human beings?

P.S. I hate political correctness and the democrats even more than Trump so don't even think about it.

Edited by Oldest Goat
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we have a chance to get someone more progressive than Biden in.

The keys are not to come off hawkish on foreign policy and get out to Wisconsin, Michigan, etc and let those people know you care.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

@Download 

Another thing, I have zero issue with others getting rich. I remember seeing a stupid student being interviewed saying 90% of the the 1%'s wealth should be taxed, I laughed. That being said, you are able to make your money in society because everyone's trying to work together and pays their taxes...but you think you're above all that? You want to swoop in, take what you can of the pie and everyone else be damned. Like a greedy, entitled, spoiled brat. It's honestly like listening to a bitchy teenage girl whine about how she deserves to get what she wants because she like totally works like way harder than everyone else and is like super smart, we just don't get that since we're lame. Grow up and act like a man your lack of compassion, morals and intellect is disgraceful. Take a step back and actually observe your thoughts...you look after your family first of course, but do you give a shit about your fellow Americans/human beings?

P.S. I hate political correctness and the democrats even more than Trump so don't even think about it.

Hmm . . . My lack of morals, compassion, and intellect is disgraceful? And I think Im above what? Paying taxes? Helping fellow human beings? I'm so lost as to what Im being accused of now . . . 

Either way,  it doesn't matter, this has been quite interesting, lol. 

 

 

Edited by Download

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

I think we have a chance to get someone more progressive than Biden in.

The keys are not to come off hawkish on foreign policy and get out to Wisconsin, Michigan, etc and let those people know you care.

I just don't see how someone more progressive than Biden can win in Michigan, Wisconsin,Iowa, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida. I guess the Green New Deal and  might do the trick. As long as we get a more pragmatic and realistic version of what it was presented. How can Democrats grab something more in the South other than Virginia?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Download said:

Hmm . . . My lack of morals, compassion, and intellect is disgraceful? And I think Im above what? Paying taxes? Helping fellow human beings? I'm so lost as to what Im being accused of now . . . 

Either way,  it doesn't matter, this has been quite interesting, lol. 

You might be less lost if you didn't edit out half my post.

It does matter, actually. The issues at hand and being capable of critical thinking is kinda important. 

P.S. Biden has no chance of winning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

Is the National Enquirer the equivalent to the UK's Daily Express?

Nah the National Enquirer is more like The Sun. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

You might be less lost if you didn't edit out half my post.

It does matter, actually. The issues at hand and being capable of critical thinking is kinda important. 

P.S. Biden has no chance of winning.

Umm... what?

Biden? When did I say Biden had a chance to win? 

I think you might have me confused with someone else, lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Download said:

Umm... what?

Biden? When did I say Biden had a chance to win? 

I think you might have me confused with someone else, lol

The posts literally directly above me were talking about Biden.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

The posts literally directly above me were talking about Biden.
 

 

👍

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Download said:

Wow, holy shit. Just wow. 

You should look up the definitions of things like rights, liberties, etc., especially if you're going to get into political "debates."

Are you unable to respond to any of the substance, and that's why you zone in on a particular detail with your own (misguided) interpretation? Although, it's difficult to extract your exact point from "wow holy shit" - so perhaps you'd like to rephrase using a sentence comprised of more than expletives and buzzwords? Coincidentally, other conservatives on this forum (and another forum I frequent) operate similarly. :shrugs:

18 hours ago, downzy said:

Highly unlikely, though it depends on the eventual nominee.  

I have hard time believing someone like Biden or Brown would make it part of their platform. 

He's not serious. Well, he is, but it's because he believes it would be a negative for Democrats to campaign on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, OmarBradley said:

You should look up the definitions of things like rights, liberties, etc., especially if you're going to get into political "debates."

Are you unable to respond to any of the substance, and that's why you zone in on a particular detail with your own (misguided) interpretation? Although, it's difficult to extract your exact point from "wow holy shit" - so perhaps you'd like to rephrase using a sentence comprised of more than expletives and buzzwords? Coincidentally, other conservatives on this forum (and another forum I frequent) operate similarly. :shrugs:

He's not serious. Well, he is, but it's because he believes it would be a negative for Democrats to campaign on this.

You don’t think citizens have a right to decide who comes into their country. Wow pretty much covered it, lol. Thanks for putting it out there though. Most Dems sidestep that question but you went right there. 

✌️

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×