Jump to content
downzy

US Politics/Elections Thread

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Download said:

As a small business owner I could not imagine being discriminatory against anyone’s faith. 

As a small business owner that deals in service and being in many different individuals homes, I do everything that I can to accommodate their demands. I do that for several reasons, but the main reason is that when my services are rendered I accept cash, check, or credit card and I don’t care what race, religion, skin color, sexual preference,or political affiliation they are. 

Just the same, I don’t think a business should be forced to do something if they don’t want because of religious reasons. I may not agree with the reason, but I’m also not a deeply religious person, so living a faith based life is kind of foreign to me. 

At the end of the day, there’s going to be a business that will be more than happy to take my money, crisis diverted

As much as I disagree with many of your points I do agree that a Christian business shouldn't have to bake a gay wedding cake. We're all well within our rights to think that the people involved are bigoted arseholes (and I do) but I wouldn't force them to create something that they fundamentally disagree with. The issue in my mind is the creative investment in the enterprise. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression has to be absolute and that includes things that I may find to be fundamentally abhorrent.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I am sure I can't be bothered.

 

Would you say Download is wrong about his comments on Scandinavia? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Download said:

No, I’m not stuck on various points, I just don’t have the patience to type a book explaining the point and then explaining the reason behind the point while also stating that because I believe this point doesn’t mean I don’t believe your point. 

Agree to disagree? 

Id be more than happy to have a rational discussion about this topic or whatever topic you choose in person if we were to ever cross paths at a GnR concert 😁

I’ll even buy the Beer 🍻 

In the current GNR climate, chances are low I'll attend another show. However, if you're ever in the NY area let me know and we can set up a televised, moderated debate (or just beer :thumbsup:).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

Would you say Download is wrong about his comments on Scandinavia? 

It is certainly not as homogeneous as he might think and I don't think the Nordic model is vulnerable to ethnic heterogeneity or population size. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

It is certainly not as homogeneous as he might think and I don't think the Nordic model is vulnerable to ethnic heterogeneity or population size. 

And the rape rate is not 50%?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

And the rape rate is not 50%?

I have no idea what the rate rape is in Sweden, nor do I know what a rape rate of 50 % would mean (50 % of women have been raped? 50 % of men have raped %? 50 % of evenings out results in being raped?). Anyway, I am sure the answer can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I have no idea what the rate rape is in Sweden, nor do I know what a rape rate of 50 % would mean (50 % of women have been raped? 50 % of men have raped %? 50 % of evenings out results in being raped?). Anyway, I am sure the answer can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

It's propaganda the alt-right uses to "prove" that immigrants aka "brown people" are serial rapists. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, downzy said:

Go back and examine my post.  At no point did I mention Christianity in my example of discriminatory behaviour.  Had you just asked me to clarify by what I meant by the Bible, I would would have specified the Hebrew Bible.  Instead you assumed I was speaking about Christianity and launched into a misguided defence of Christianity and a wayward attack on my views on religion.

It's fine that people have different perspectives on religion.  You can believe whatever you want; I personally don't care.  You're welcome to put more weight on certain passages than others.  It really doesn't matter.  But as this thread is geared towards discussions on American politics, discussions of religion should focus on what is an acceptable allowance of religion into the body politic.  

Nope.

Again, all the happened is that I corrected an incorrect statement that you made. That clearly set you off. 

What a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense this is.

Edited by soon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

It's propaganda the alt-right uses to "prove" that immigrants aka "brown people" are serial rapists. 

Are you saying I'm alt-right? Wow! What an intellectually lazy position. Do you just sit around and wait for a received opinion? 

According to Swedish national council for crime prevention (BRA)  between 2006-2016 overall crime is down while rape is up 50%. That's not a made up statistic. 

So I just made that up because I don't like brown people? Oh please. Yes, America will have the same thing Sweden is having because we don't want to be labeled alt-right or fear of brown people.

How about we don't want American women raped? And calling me a racist wont change that thought. 

And stating that the Nordic countries aren't as Homogeneous "As I might think" really isn't saying anything. Are they more homogenous than America? Ill answer for you, Yes, they are. To pretend racial demographics doesn't play into the success of the Nordic model means you haven't thought about it much. 

Edited by Download

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Download said:

According to Swedish national council for crime prevention (BRA)  between 2006-2016 overall crime is down while rape is up 50%. That's not a made up statistic. 

I think the common response to that is that within this time period the Swedes have redefined what constitutes "rape" resulting in far more cases.

In 2018 they also made any sexual intercourse where both parties haven't explicitly stated a decision to go through with it "rape", likely resulting in another jump on the statistics.

How does "racial demographics" play into the success of the Nordic model? I am eager to hear your views on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I think the common response to that is that within this time period the Swedes have redefined what constitutes "rape" resulting in far more cases.

In 2018 they also made any sexual intercourse where both parties haven't explicitly stated a decision to go through with it "rape", likely resulting in another jump on the statistics.

Is the Swedish definition of rape different than the United States definition?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Download said:

Is the Swedish definition of rape different than the United States definition?

You tell me, I am neither American or Swedish:

Quote

Rape in Sweden has a legal definition described in Chapter 6 in the Swedish Penal Code.[1] Historically, rape has been defined as forced sexual intercourse initiated against a woman or man by one or several people, without consent.[2] In recent years, several revisions to the definition of rape have been made to the law of Sweden,[3][4] to include not only intercourse but also comparable sexual acts against someone incapable of giving consent, due to being in a vulnerable situation, such as a state of fear or unconsciousness.[4][5] In 2018,[4] Sweden has passed a new law that criminalizes sex without consent as rape,[4] even when there are no threats, coercion or violence involved.[4]

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the US, citizens commit crimes at higher rates than undocumented immigrants.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Download said:

Well I am not in a position to say how different they are. 

Regardless, the increase in reported rape in Sweden is likely partially caused by changes in the definition of what constitutes rape these last years. So, arguing it is caused by immigration is somewhat flawed. 

What you could do is look at absolute numbers, and then argue that any differences are caused by amount of immigrants, but that is a difficult argument to make convincing. 

I am still interested in hearing your thoughts on how "racial demographics" play into the success of the Nordic model. Why would a somewhat higher racial homogeneity in the Nordic countries mean that the Nordic model of social democracy is a success while it would fail in the slightly more racially diverse USA? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Well I am not in a position to say how different they are. 

Regardless, the increase in reported rape in Sweden is likely partially caused by changes in the definition of what constitutes rape these last years. So, arguing it is caused by immigration is somewhat flawed. 

What you could do is look at absolute numbers, and then argue that any differences are caused by amount of immigrants, but that is a difficult argument to make convincing. 

I am still interested in hearing your thoughts on how "racial demographics" play into the success of the Nordic model. Why would a somewhat higher racial homogeneity in the Nordic countries mean that the Nordic model of social democracy is a success while it would fail in the slightly more racially diverse USA? 

Your question is flawed from the start. A somewhat higher racial homogeneity against a slightly more racially diverse USA

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Download said:

Your question is flawed from the start. A somewhat higher racial homogeneity against a slightly more racially diverse USA

 

 By all means, change it to "a higher racial homogeniety" and "more racially diverse USA". It doesn't matter to me what it actually is. I am just curious at how you would argue it would affect the Nordic model.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

 By all means, change it to "a higher racial homogeniety" and "more racially diverse USA". It doesn't matter to me what it actually is. I am just curious at how you would argue it would affect the Nordic model.

Because: Race War. Obviously :lol:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, soon said:

Because: Race War. Obviously :lol:

 

Its easy to want the same thing if you're all the same thing. Its easy to be collective when they all share a lot in common. 

Finland is about the size of Missouri and Illinois with about 5 million people. Every Finnish political party supports a welfare state, broadly speaking. And there all for high taxation that makes that possible. Theres also a lot of confidence in the political system. 

Im not even going to entertain racism. Am I wrong? Maybe? Does it come from me thinking Whites are better than another race? No. 

These use to be conversations that were had before we were told that we cant have them. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Download said:

Its easy to want the same thing if you're all the same thing. Its easy to be collective when they all share a lot in common. 

Finland is about the size of Missouri and Illinois with about 5 million people. Every Finnish political party supports a welfare state, broadly speaking. And there all for high taxation that makes that possible. Theres also a lot of confidence in the political system. 

Im not even going to entertain racism. Am I wrong? Maybe? Does it come from me thinking Whites are better than another race? No. 

These use to be conversations that were had before we were told that we cant have them. 

 

 

I note that we are having this conversation right now. Weird eh?

People are the "same thing" btw

I live in a multi culture society, Canada, that taxes and spends for social programs. Proving your theory wrong.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Download said:

Its easy to want the same thing if you're all the same thing. Its easy to be collective when they all share a lot in common. 

Finland is about the size of Missouri and Illinois with about 5 million people. Every Finnish political party supports a welfare state, broadly speaking. And there all for high taxation that makes that possible. Theres also a lot of confidence in the political system. 

Im not even going to entertain racism. Am I wrong? Maybe? Does it come from me thinking Whites are better than another race? No. 

These use to be conversations that were had before we were told that we cant have them. 

I am sure we can have these discussions :)

If I am not entirely mistaken, immigrants to Norway coming from Africa and Asia, tend to be greater supporters of our Labour party (which really built up our Nordic model of social democracy here in Norway) than most "ethnic Norwegians", indicating that they have a huge amount of belief and aporival for our social democracy. This could be because many immigrants are beneficiaries of our welfare system, which is part of our social democracy.

And as we have been experiencing more immigration in the last 20 years, I see no signs that our Nordic model is crumbling. At all. Most opponents to the Nordic model actually come from the right side of the political spectrum. So people opposed to immigration have a higher probability of also wanting revisions to our social democracy, especially in terms of a rollback on the welfare system.

So more homogeneity in Norway, less racial diversity, would likely be a larger threat to our Nordic model, than more. The exception would be if very much immigration over a short timespan caused so much burden on our welfare system that we couldn't afford it any more. But Norway has just decreased immigration radically, so no need to worry about that really (we are also ridiculously rich).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

 

So more homogeneity in Norway, less racial diversity, would likely be a larger threat to our Nordic model, than more. The exception would be if very much immigration over a short timespan caused so much burden on our welfare system that we couldn't afford it any more. But Norway has just decreased immigration radically, so no need to worry about that really (we are also ridiculously rich).  

Which maybe I should have spoke a little more eloquently in saying that Large immigration in a short amount of time. The United States has more peace time immigration than any other country in the world. And it does affect the country. We shut it down from 1924-1965 because of that. I think the Nordic model is great for them but its apples and oranges in America. IMHO, the Nordic model isn't a plug and play 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Download said:

Which maybe I should have spoke a little more eloquently in saying that Large immigration in a short amount of time. The United States has more peace time immigration than any other country in the world. And it does affect the country. We shut it down from 1924-1965 because of that. I think the Nordic model is great for them but its apples and oranges in America. IMHO, the Nordic model isn't a plug and play 

You are right, it isn't a plug and play thing. Regional differences must necessarily be taken into account. Which is why the Nordic model is differently applied in the Nordic countries. The Nordic model here in Norway is different from the one in Sweden, and so on.

The Nordic model is just a variation of social democracy, really. And social democracy is really just capitalism with a social slant. Higher taxes than what you are used to, but these taxes are then used on stuff that benefits people, like free health care, free schools, free kindergarden, free dentist services for kids, etc. If you are resourceful with a job and are healthy, then you might not benefit from such a system...but let's hope that doesn't change. Social democracy really isn't such a different thing as many Americans make it out to be. It's more humane because those that can afford it are taxed more (through tax on salaries and possibly wealth) which benefits the less fortunate among us. So it is a huge social equalizer. Those that are taxed might find it unfair that they help to fund the ones without any means, but the whole idea here is to help each other out (and the poor are more likely to rebel than the rich).

The Nordic model in addition have extra stuff that particularly helps to prevent inequality and economic recession (which is why the Nordic countries fared so well through the credit crunch in 2008). 

I really see no reason why it shouldn't work on USA, too. But like any changes to a democracy, it will only work if people want it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

 

I really see no reason why it shouldn't work on USA, too. But like any changes to a democracy, it will only work if people want it.

And that's really it right there, I don't disagree with anything you really said. I'm not against immigration, but I am very against illegal immigration for a multitude of reasons. I get all of the reasons why we have it, but I don't feel our government is on the up and up about it. I don't really like the Republicans approach and the Democrats make me want to jump out of a window. I grew up in the 90's on MTV and SNL, so I would consider myself very much on the left on most social issues. 

Globalization, Immigration, and Technology and how we deal with those things are mainly what im concerned about, and I'm starting to get really concerned about speech. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Download said:

Are you saying I'm alt-right? 

 

 

Yes and a little racist. No matter how you try and defend yourself, you are still racist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×