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US Politics/Elections Thread

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39 minutes ago, Padme said:

Well Axl wore assless chaps. There are pictures if you want to look around. See even straight men dare with assless chaps :lol:

Well thank God he didn't have the dog collar and wasn't crawling around stage led around by Duff :lol:

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40 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Of course we shouldn't tolerate anyone. We didn't tolerate Nazi Germany back in the 40s, nor should we. We shouldn't tolerate neonazis today, either. Or fascists. Or racists. Or bigots. If we tolerate everyone and everything the term itself loses all meaning. 

So everyone you deem to have bad-think needs to be banned, is that it? It's funny, when the definition of racist and bigot constantly change you can eventually ban a whole lot of stuff you don't like politically. Neat trick!

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33 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Well thank God he didn't have the dog collar and wasn't crawling around stage led around by Duff :lol:

Nah, that kind of stuff sound like the movie Boogie Nights or t.v. series Game Of Thrones :lol:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

So everyone you deem to have bad-think needs to be banned, is that it? 

I have never said anything about banning anyone. Of course people should be allowed to walk in straight pride parades, and I am allowed to call them out as bigots in turn. That's implications of freedom of speech. To not tolerate in this sense does not mean I want to curb their rights to speak and parade, that would be discrimination. It means that I too am allowed to speak, and in this case by calling them out for what they are. 

Edited by SoulMonster
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3 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I'm not sure all of this checks out in 2019. I asked before, who's more likely to face economic ramifications, the person going to the gay pride parade or the person going to the straight pride parade. No major corporation is discriminating against gay people in 2019, they'd get sued into oblivion. If they fire or demote someone going to the straight pride parade, there is no organization that will stand up for that person. That's just the reality of it.

You hit the nail on the head.  I saw an interview with one of the organizers and he basically said this isn't anti gay but rather anti left.  People, myself included, are growing tired of the double standards going on in this country.  If gays can have a parade to celebrate being gay why is it so offensive to have a parade to celebrate being straight?

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4 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I'm not sure all of this checks out in 2019. I asked before, who's more likely to face economic ramifications, the person going to the gay pride parade or the person going to the straight pride parade. No major corporation is discriminating against gay people in 2019, they'd get sued into oblivion. If they fire or demote someone going to the straight pride parade, there is no organization that will stand up for that person. That's just the reality of it.

The reality is that in 2019, people are still murdered, beaten, harassed and discriminated against for being LGBTQ. Any moron who engages in this straight pride fuckery deserves whatever backlash they get.

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3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I have never said anything about banning anyone. Of course people should be allowed to walk in straight pride parades, and I am allowed to call them out as bigots in turn. That's implications of freedom of speech. To not tolerate in this sense does not mean I want to curb their rights to speak and parade, that would be discrimination. It means that I too am allowed to speak, and in this case by calling them out for what they are. 

Ok, I respect that. I was seeing how far you were going with that line of thought.

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3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I have never said anything about banning anyone. Of course people should be allowed to walk in straight pride parades, and I am allowed to call them out as bigots in turn. That's implications of freedom of speech. To not tolerate in this sense does not mean I want to curb their rights to speak and parade, that would be discrimination. It means that I too am allowed to speak, and in this case by calling them out for what they are. 

I support your Logic. By this I will be able to go to a gay pride parade and call them f@gg0ts in turn. That's implications of freedom of speech. To not tolerate in this sense does not mean I want to curb their rights to speak and parade, that would be discrimination. It means that I too am allowed to speak, and in this case by calling them out for what they are. 

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12 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Why do fox viewers get to decide this issue. I actually think Obama calling it a holiday tree probably is the more accurate term in 2019 America. And I say that as a strong Catholic. I'm still saying the Pride Flag is obvious in what it symbolizes. The Christmas/Holiday tree depends on the eye of the beholder.

Fox viewers don't.  But calling it anything other than a Christmas tree, what 99.9 percent of people do, is enough to make a lot of people pissed off.

Again, it's called a Christmas tree for a reason.  It's symbolic of the holiday season that which many Christians and secularists honour and celebrate.

Moreover, even if it's simply a cultural expression, what is so wrong with governments celebrating and supporting a significant but historically marginalized group by the small effort of flying a flag?

 

10 hours ago, action said:

the only group I see being marginalised on here, are the straight group, who if they would walk in a pride march, I quote, "would be idiotic"

if that is not marginalising a group, I don't know what is

How are straight groups being marginalized here?  

It would be idiotic for any member of a heteronormative group to walk in support of heteronormative behaviour.  It gets celebrated everyday by not being threatened and chastised by bigots and small minded people.  

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9 hours ago, action said:

how would you guys react to a straight pride? would you ridicule it? would you actively go protest against this pride? would you shout all sorts of names to them?

but the most important question of all...

why would you care?

I would absolutely ridicule a straight pride march just like I would ridicule a white power march. 

Both are unnecessary and stupid.  

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7 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I'm not sure all of this checks out in 2019. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-lgbt-crime/rise-of-homophobia-in-britain-condemned-after-attacks-on-lesbian-same-sex-couples-idUSKCN1TB29A

7 hours ago, action said:

This casual labeling of entire groups as idiotic is not healthy for a nice, tolerant, peaceful society.

Nobody is labelling anyone as such.  

Just individuals who don't understand the basics of social power dynamics.

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7 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

There will always be a part of the majority who confuses others getting to enjoy equal rights with a reduction of their rights.

Bingo.  Power dynamics for so long have favoured one group over another for so long that once things start evening out the previously favoured group see this reorientation in the social order as discriminatory towards them.  It's a relative loss, not an absolute one.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 31illusions said:

I support your Logic. By this I will be able to go to a gay pride parade and call them f@gg0ts in turn. That's implications of freedom of speech. To not tolerate in this sense does not mean I want to curb their rights to speak and parade, that would be discrimination. It means that I too am allowed to speak, and in this case by calling them out for what they are. 

It is disturbing that you don't see the difference in not tolerating someone based merely on who they love, and not tolerating someone because they are bigots. 

Edited by SoulMonster
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2 hours ago, 31illusions said:

I support your Logic. By this I will be able to go to a gay pride parade and call them f@gg0ts in turn. That's implications of freedom of speech. To not tolerate in this sense does not mean I want to curb their rights to speak and parade, that would be discrimination. It means that I too am allowed to speak, and in this case by calling them out for what they are. 

In the United States you're allowed to utter whatever garbage you want so long as it does not promote imminent violence.

So feel free to utter whatever bigoted garbage you want.  

Understand, just as you so often do in this thread, you're simply broadcasting what a closed minded and hate-filled person you truly are.  

But hey, that's your call according to the rights enumerated by your Constitution.

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I guess I can't change the main opinion that is shown in this thread then. 

It will be with feelings of disgust and cringe, to see the army of tolerant people try to best each other in ridiculing a future straight parade. 

Everyone will agree though, that parades such as these, that are meant to celebrate your sexuality, were mainly of homosexual  nature in the past. You could argue, parades such as these are an invention of the minority group that finds issue with straights holding a parade themselves.

The argument of the minority is, that the parade held by the "straights" is meant to provoke, to shove their straight sexuality in other people's face.

I find that a really, really weird way of thinking.

Why are they so quick to see such a parade as provocation? After all, shouldn't they, as "experience experts" see such a parade as a mere peacefull celebration of your sexuality, as they have done so many times in the past? Where did the shift come from in their opinion, that suddenly they see parades as provocative? The next time when they hold a parade celebrating homosexuality, will they see themselves as provocative too I wonder? Or will they go back to feign innocent celebration of their sexuality?

And if all of this is held in a peaceful, welcoming climate, will I be welcome when they hold one of their next parades? Or will I be called nazi scum?

....Maybe I should stop asking questions? Maybe hypocrisy such as this isn't armed against questions like mine?

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, action said:

I guess I can't change the main opinion that is shown in this thread then. 

It will be with feelings of disgust and cringe, to see the army of tolerant people try to best each other in ridiculing a future straight parade. 

Everyone will agree though, that parades such as these, that are meant to celebrate your sexuality, were mainly of homosexual  nature in the past. You could argue, parades such as these are an invention of the minority group that finds issue with straights holding a parade themselves.

The argument of the minority is, that the parade held by the "straights" is meant to provoke, to shove their straight sexuality in other people's face.

I find that a really, really weird way of thinking.

Why are they so quick to see such a parade as provocation? After all, shouldn't they, as "experience experts" see such a parade as a mere peacefull celebration of your sexuality, as they have done so many times in the past? Where did the shift come from in their opinion, that suddenly they see parades as provocative? The next time when they hold a parade celebrating homosexuality, will they see themselves as provocative too I wonder? Or will they go back to feign innocent celebration of their sexuality?

And if all of this is held in a peaceful, welcoming climate, will I be welcome when they hold one of their next parades? Or will I be called nazi scum?

....Maybe I should stop asking questions? Maybe hypocrisy such as this isn't armed against questions like mine?

There is a nuance here that seems lost on you. You don't seem to understand the obvious motivations.

Just like a white race march isn't a wholesome celebration of being caucasian, a straight pride parade isn't a joyous celebration of heterosexuality. These are both anti-parades, meaning that they are more about taking a stand against the encroaching rights of others than celebrating the privilege they have enjoyed for generations. Straight people don't march to share the joy of being straight, they do it to take a stand against the increasing equality between gays and straights.

Similarly, it would be naive to understand a gay pride as simply a happy celebration of the joys of being a homosexual and not grasp the undercurrent message of celebrating equality and the end of discrimination. It is a celebration of the end of centuries of oppression. Which is entirely fair if you ask me. They deserve it. In that sense one might suspect that gay pride will end when it is became completely unnatural to everybody to discriminate against people on the basis of who they love (but more likely pride parades are becoming a cultural fixture and will hence continue). 

People have asked me why I care, since I am not gay. Well, besides the obvious choice of arguing for equality and being disgusted by discrimination of gays simply on the basis of homosexuality, I do see the discrimination of gays as just another reflection of our inherently flawed nature which has manifested itself in horrific persecution of other people, including jews and blacks in modern history. And just as we took a stance against such bigotry, racism and discrimination in the past, like when we fought Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s and during the civil rights movement in the USA in the 50s and 60s that gave blacks their equal rights, we have to take a stand against the persecution of gays, too. Where I live this battle is almost over and gay discrimination has lost (in other parts of the world gays face death penalty), yet there are still remnants of now and then, and just like I am happy to know my grandparents were on the right side when Norway was occupied by Nazi Germany in the 40s I want to be able to look into my grandchildrens' eyes and say that I was on the right side in the 1980s and later when it became okay to be gay in Norway. 

Edited by SoulMonster
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I'm all for equality too. but encouraging gay parades while ridiculing straight parades, is not going to benefit equality

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11 hours ago, action said:

 I'm straight as an arrow myself, and I want to meet people like me in a social gathering setting

Well fuck me aren’t you just in luck that a bunch of rednecks organised this silly parade? Because where else would it be possible for straight people to meet other straight people in a social setting? :lol: 

12 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Dazey, how does your brand of politics go down on the streets of Redcar? 

Elaborate? 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Swampfox said:

You hit the nail on the head.  I saw an interview with one of the organizers and he basically said this isn't anti gay but rather anti left.  People, myself included, are growing tired of the double standards going on in this country.  If gays can have a parade to celebrate being gay why is it so offensive to have a parade to celebrate being straight?

Which one of the organisers? Was it the white supremacist, the token gay white supremacist or the congressional candidate who ran for office with the support of white supremacists? 🤔

screen-shot-2019-06-04-at-4.55.13-pm.png

 

Edited by Dazey
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14 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Well fuck me aren’t you just in luck that a bunch of rednecks organised this silly parade? Because where else would it be possible for straight people to meet other straight people in a social setting? :lol: 

 

I never claimed this silly parade would be the only place I could meet straight people, like me. Where did you get that idea from?

Indeed, I meet plenty of straight people every day. It's not like a straight parade is "needed" for me to meet other straight people.

I would argue, the same is true for gay people. I'm sure, they have many friends that are gay, just like themselves, that they can choose to meet every day.

But for the same reasons that gay people organise gay parades (social gathering, a sense of unity, friendship and solidarity), straight people can organise a parade of their own. Straight people, diabolised as they are, are only human after all and can enjoy solidarity and friendship just as much as gay people. I'm sorry if that surprises you, or offends you in any way. My advice to you is, try to not let it enrage you too much. Life is too short to get all wound up over this. Those people just want to have a good time. There is no need to see agendas everywhere. There is no need for the hate and ridicule.

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6 hours ago, 31illusions said:

I will be able to go to a gay pride parade and call them f@gg0ts.

calling them out for what they are. 

Which really says all that needs to be said about you and the kind of people who are likely to support a straight pride parade. 

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2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Which really says all that needs to be said about you and the kind of people who are likely to support a straight pride parade. 

I agree with you Dazey.

But may I just point out, that I distance myself from calling people horrible names like 31illusions mentioned. I think language like that, along with calling groups of people "idiotic", creates division and hate. Both instances Dazey, you are guilty of it too when you call people idiotic. Sure, call the single elements in the straight parade, who are in it to taunt gay people, idiotic. I will join you. But you did not nuance your criticism, you called everyone idiotic. That's going too far.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, action said:

I agree with you Dazey.

But may I just point out, that I distance myself from calling people horrible names like 31illusions mentioned. I think language like that, along with calling groups of people "idiotic", creates division and hate. Both instances Dazey, you are guilty of it too when you call people idiotic. Sure, call the single elements in the straight parade, who are in it to taunt gay people, idiotic. I will join you. But you did not nuance your criticism, you called everyone idiotic. That's going too far.

Just to clarify my earlier point. I called the concept of straight pride idiotic and didn’t refer to individual people.

I then went on to criticise the people who have organised this as not acting in good faith as a quick look at their backgrounds rings all sorts of alarm bells.

31 Illusions then chipped in to defend the concept of straight pride by saying he wanted to go to a gay pride parade and call them all f@ggots because that’s “what they are” in his words. 

This shit basically writes itself if you let it. 😂

Edited by Dazey

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The core of this is, gay people are "offended" in some way, by straight parades.

By default, gay people see a straight parade as "provocation".

Just look at this thread, proof is here in spades.

But imagine being offended by a parade that promotes a certain kind of sexuality. Gay people are now guilty themselves, of acts that they themselves are victims of for as long as there is history. The irony here, is colossal.

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Just to clarify my earlier point. I called the concept of straight pride idiotic and didn’t refer to individual people.

I then went on to criticise the people who have organised this as not acting in good faith as a quick look at their backgrounds rings all sorts of alarm bells.

31 Illusions then chipped in to defend the concept of straight pride by saying he wanted to go to a gay pride parade and call them all fa*gots because that’s “what they are” in his words. 

This shit basically writes itself if you let it. 😂

well that's clarified then.

 

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