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US Politics/Elections Thread

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36 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

 

But the elite class that controls both parties wants this, so he'll hardly catch any shit for this. Good on Bernie for not falling in line with that BS.

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1 hour ago, -W.A.R- said:

 

But in fairness to Trump, Saudi Arabia played a key role in the invasion of Normandy

:P 

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Beto fell so hard. I guess not being the alternative to Ted Cruz exposed how vapid he was with his spiritual, join me on this journey, I was born to be in it, I was born to run nonsense (Who is he, Bruce Springsteen?). Now hes had to relaunch his campaign twice and is getting desperate so hes trying to find something he can be "radical" about. Yeah its time for him to call it quits.

Edited by -W.A.R-

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

I think the issue with this is that he tied it to equal marriage. Tax exempt status for these organisations should be revoked anyway.

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On 10/11/2019 at 9:11 AM, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

That's the thing, the neocons driving the agenda right now don't think Iran should exist, let alone have a voice!

I'll repeat my question, how many Kurds are there in comparison to Muslims who don't like the Kurds? I'll side with group 2, thank you!

Say something stupid again. 

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Did Trump just admit that the US military is now muscle for hire?

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3 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Once again this chickenhawk has no answers!

You didn't disappoint me.

 

Let me ask you this, do you support "ethnic cleansing"?

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This belongs here spiritually. :lol: 

72735445_10163220449160377_7771624321453

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17 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

You didn't disappoint me.

 

Let me ask you this, do you support "ethnic cleansing"?

I answer with a question. Do you support creating a new state out of several other states, therefore pissing off millions of people of those nations and kicking off another war which will kill 10's of thousands at minimum, and creating a further destabilization of the middle east?

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The Kurds have now struck a deal with Assad. No more big daddy Uncle Sam to back them up so they are forced to play nice with Assad, as they should.

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FYI, for anyone of a leftist bent or even open minded to foreign-policy realism, the Grayzone is an excellent resource. Here Max Blumenthal (one of our best journalists) talks about the US-Ukraine relationship way beyond the Trump and Biden scandals. 

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6 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

The Kurds have now struck a deal with Assad. No more big daddy Uncle Sam to back them up so they are forced to play nice with Assad, as they should.

I'm afraid they didn't have too much of a choice. Turkey is pretty much invading northern Syria. And Trump think the solution is sanctions. However Pence will try to strike some kind of a deal. I think the deal should've come first and the U.S. troops withdrawal later.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/14/politics/donald-trump-congress-turkey-sanctions-syria/index.html

Edited by Padme

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10 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I answer with a question. Do you support creating a new state out of several other states, therefore pissing off millions of people of those nations and kicking off another war which will kill 10's of thousands at minimum, and creating a further destabilization of the middle east?

 

Yeah, because Israel no longer exists, right?

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72900800_10157237846806928_5292291674595

Consider it a primer, if you've forgotten some of this stuff. It's hard to keep it all straight, for sure. But one thing is certain, the Kurds will not soon let this slide. Nor should they.

For reference, and somewhat confusingly as a graphic, the light blue shaded area is Kurdish Iran, not a body of water. The other shadings are easier to read: Green: Iraqi Kurdistan, Yellow: Syrian Kurdistan, Brown: Turkish Kurdistan. 

-----

So, the difference in the situation on the ground and the way I think you're framing it, is that here it's not the case of a terrible thing happening in the world, and the United States - under any President - being faced with a choice to intervene or to not intervene. Rather, it is the result of a long history between the Kurdish people, the United States, and the varying forces in the region.

First, the geography. Kurdistan isn't a country, but the Kurdish people have as much claim to one as the Iraqi people, the American people, the British people or anyone else. They just didn't get a seat at the table after World War I, when the rough outlines of today's map were drawn. As such, there are lots of Kurds in Eastern Turkey, Northern Syria, Northern Iraq, and Northwestern Iran. What they want, in the end, is to have a country that provides them a homeland in that rough area. That's not likely going to happen anytime soon, but it is the goal.

Because of that, they see the national governments in Ankara, Damascus, Baghdad, and Tehran as their nearby adversary. 

Sometimes those relationships are not awful - like today in Iraq, where there's a tense peace between the Iraqis and the Kurdish Iraqis. Sometimes it is hell on earth, as it was after the First Gulf War (back when we were young, George H.W. Bush in charge.) In that war, when Bush attacked Saddam Hussein in the south (Kuwait), the Kurds rose up against him in the north under a PROMISE that we would defend them. Saddam had also moved many of the Kurds internally to the South, to divide their power, and they rose against him as well. Still, we PROMISED them we'd have their back if they did. And then George H.W. Bush sold them out and they were slaughtered.

Gaining their trust in that war was terribly difficult because of a previous betrayal. You might remember when George W. Bush was ramping up to war a second time in Iraq in the early 2000s. One of his main talking points was that Saddam Hussein had "gassed his own people."

He had. In the Iraq / Iran war of the 80s and early 90s. Those people were Kurds, and at the time of that massacre, Saddam Hussein was our ally against the mullahs in Iran and we SOLD HIM THE POISON GAS, something made very clear to the Kurds because of the English writing on the sides of the cannisters. So, yeah, getting them to trust us in the first Gulf War was a nightmare, as we had armed their own local Hitler and helped the slaughter of their parents. But STILL they trusted us, and STILL they were betrayed.

So, when George Bush the Lesser needed them again in HIS war in Iraq it took every single bit of leverage we possibly could muster to say, "Look, we know we betrayed you in the past, but THIS TIME we've got your back."

They came around and helped us fight Saddam Hussein and later ISIS. Then when ISIS moved to Syria, the Syrian Kurds helped us fight them there. But the Syrian Kurds had ANOTHER problem: Turkey. Turkey - particularly under the current President, Erdogan - looks at the Kurds as an existential threat. He does NOT want a nation of Kurdistan to take part of his territory, so for a long time, there have been bloody tensions along that border in Eastern Turkey, and Northern Syria. The Syrian Kurds there were under pressure from Turkey, and then a Civil War broke out after the Arab Spring in Syria and ISIS came in to form their caliphate, while the Syrian Hitler - Bashar al Assad - started bombing the hell out of regions that didn't support him. With all that chaos, millions (literally millions) of Syrians became refugees and fled to Europe and beyond. And, notably, Turkey. But the United States desperately needed the Syrian Kurds to NOT join that exodus, but rather, to stay and face down ISIS and the Islamic State, as well as keeping a check on Assad.

But what could we give them? Why would they trust us?

We offered them weapons and training. We offered them development aid. All that was important, but the ONE THING they needed most of all was a guarantee that while they were busy in the south and east of their region fighting the Islamic State and Bashar al Assad, we would keep their most dangerous natural enemy - Turkey - off their backs.

We promised, they agreed. Together - though largely through their blood and honor - ISIS was deeply wounded. Our commitment in troops was (get this) fewer than 100. Those troops were Special Forces on training missions, and providing logistical support - but the most important thing they were doing for the Kurds was simply being there, because Turkey would not drop a bomb on their territory that might kill an American soldier.

Then Trump spoke to Erdogan and got some so-far-unknown promise from him, and he pulled out those troops. The fewer than 100 troops - the number in the media has been citing is fifty - who were training Kurdish fighters, and providing nearly a million people security simply by being there. After that call, Trump removed the tripwire and within a day, Turkey began bombing our friends.

With that, we betrayed the Kurday for a THIRD time in less than forty years. Now, they will be our enemies forever, and we deserve it. And it was all so unnecessary.

twitter.com/MichaelXTallon

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Things are not looking good for Rudy...

 

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Maybe worth noting, that while the Kurds are majority Muslim they also have adherents to a number of faiths. They have demonstrated an ability to respect and tolerate one another’s beliefs. 

Of the minority faiths Christianity is the largest. There’s cases of Christian Kurds and Muslim Kurds living together in same village. Kurds have also demonstrated the ability to progress in social values on their own accord, with women gaining more ‘rights’ and freedoms over last decades in many cases.

one lever to debate trumps “Christian” base could be the plea for fellow christians. (Not that it works in Palestine though)

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

 

Yeah, because Israel no longer exists, right?

We already have one Israel that causes enough problems, we don't need two!

1 hour ago, soon said:

Maybe worth noting, that while the Kurds are majority Muslim they also have adherents to a number of faiths. They have demonstrated an ability to respect and tolerate one another’s beliefs. 

Of the minority faiths Christianity is the largest. There’s cases of Christian Kurds and Muslim Kurds living together in same village. Kurds have also demonstrated the ability to progress in social values on their own accord, with women gaining more ‘rights’ and freedoms over last decades in many cases.

one lever to debate trumps “Christian” base could be the plea for fellow christians. (Not that it works in Palestine though)

 

 

 

Assad also protects Christian minorities, so why doesn't he get the benefit of the doubt here? I'm seeing a lot of romanticizing of the Kurds lately.

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The US needs to stop sticking it's nose in the business of the Middle East. The US has switched sides and alliances too many times to count. And all it's gotten us is the hatred of the majority of people in that area, even Saudi Arabians (who are supposedly our ally) attack us! Enough! Be an honest broker or get the fuck out.

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25 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Assad also protects Christian minorities, so why doesn't he get the benefit of the doubt here? I'm seeing a lot of romanticizing of the Kurds lately.

I presented facts about the Christian population of Kurds, as a debate tool for those of us who oppose the slaughter of our allies (and indeed the slaughter of all humans, especially innocents). And you respond with a terribly inaccurate comparison between the Kurds and Assad? :facepalm:

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4 minutes ago, soon said:

I presented facts about the Christian population of Kurds, as a debate tool for those of us who oppose the slaughter of our allies (and indeed the slaughter of all humans, especially innocents). And you respond with a terribly inaccurate comparison between the Kurds and Assad? :facepalm:

'Our allies' no 'your allies' I never wanted involvement in that shitshow in the first place. Also, you presented no facts that the Kurds are this love of diversity and protector of other faiths. Assad has the support of the Christian minority in Syria, does he not?

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