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An article a few years old but provides a good primer,

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22270455

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In areas seized by the jihadist group Islamic State (IS), Christians have been ordered to convert to Islam, pay jizya (a religious levy), or face death. In the Syrian province of Hassakeh in February 2015, hundreds of Christians are feared to have been kidnapped by the militants.

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Although, like other Syrians, they had very limited civil and political freedoms, Christians are believed to have valued the rights and protection accorded to minorities by Hafez al-Assad, who was president between 1971 and 2000, and by his son Bashar.

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Many fear that if President Assad is overthrown, Christians will be targeted and communities destroyed as many were in Iraq after the US-led invasion in 2003. They have also been concerned by the coming to power of Islamist parties in post-revolutionary Egypt and Tunisia.

From Wikipedia of all places! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Syria

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During the Syrian civil war, several attacks by ISIS or Kurdish militias have targeted Syrian Christians, including the 2015 al-Qamishli bombings and the July 2016 Qamishli bombings. In January 2016, YPG militias conducted a surprise attack on Assyrian checkpoints in Qamishli, in a predominantly Assyrian area, killing one Assyrian and wounding three others.[16][17][18]

 

Edited by Basic_GnR_Fan

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3 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

'Our allies' no 'your allies' I never wanted involvement in that shitshow in the first place. Also, you presented no facts that the Kurds are this love of diversity and protector of other faiths. Assad has the support of the Christian minority in Syria, does he not?

Again, I made a point about the entire Syrian Kurd population and how some are christian. I said how that should be used in debate with trumps "christian" base - to plea for the lives of their fellow christians. 

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20 minutes ago, soon said:

Again, I made a point about the entire Syrian Kurd population and how some are christian. I said how that should be used in debate with trumps "christian" base - to plea for the lives of their fellow christians. 

But Christians in general, in Syria, are supporting Assad because they are terrified of what type of radical regime could take his place. So let's examine this, you want me to ignore the average Christian in Syria, and side with a subset of Kurdish Christians and put their interests first?

Are you even Christian? What kind of mental gymnastics is this lol.

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2 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

But Christians in general, in Syria, are supporting Assad because they are terrified of what type of radical regime could take his place. So let's examine this, you want me to ignore the average Christian in Syria, and side with a subset of Kurdish Christians and put their interests first?

Are you even Christian? What kind of mental gymnastics is this lol.

I put forward a common and sometimes useful debate tool (trumps christian base might respond to the fact that some victims are fellow christians). Sorry if you remain so confused by my straight forward point :lol:

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42 minutes ago, soon said:

I put forward a common and sometimes useful debate tool (trumps christian base might respond to the fact that some victims are fellow christians). Sorry if you remain so confused by my straight forward point :lol:

Well this Christian right here is happy he isn't overthrowing the Assad regime!

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2 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Well this Christian right here is happy he isn't overthrowing the Assad regime!

I wouldn't be too happy.

 

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2019/september/assad-regime-named-as-number-one-threat-to-syria-rsquo-s-christians-after-more-than-120-churches-intentionally-attacked

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10 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

From your own article

Quote

SNHR chairman Fadel Abdul Ghany told reporters on Monday in a conference call that while Islamic extremists are targeting Christians simply because they are Christians, the Assad regime is targeting anyone who opposes his dictatorship.

Assad's forces justify repeated attacks on churches by saying they were being used by opposition forces, Erica Hanichak of Americans for a Free Syria told reporters on Monday.

Well that's the big question, are the ones that were bombed being used by rebel/terrorist forces or were they just bombed for the hell of it. Kind of a big clarification that needs to be made. It's already admitted that the anti-Assad Islamic extremists are straight up targeting Christians.

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"The big fear of the Christians—the majority—is if he  [Assad]  goes, who will come in? And that is the big, big fear," Bishop Nicholas James Samra of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton told the Catholic News Agency.

Ding, ding, ding, that's the point. The neocons that want to destroy Syria don't give a damn about what happens to the Christians in the aftermath. So please, spare me the nonsense that they do. We know what happened to the Christians in Iraq after the neocons destroyed that country.

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Can you take four more years of this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/15/can-you-take-four-more-years-this/?fbclid=IwAR38qXmIaWDUlP0OZqhAeqRNC5WOAYEeiRDgRB6OkW-NUGA6rgGh45SGslQ

The Trump administration makes so much news that it’s easy to become numb and forget how unprecedented and awful its conduct really is. It’s important, therefore, to pause and remember what happened last week. The seven days between Oct. 6 and Oct. 13 saw far, far more corruption, chaos and dysfunction revealed than any other administration has experienced during eight years in office. Not only is the Trump administration profoundly crooked, but it is also so hopelessly inept that it’s unable to keep its machinations secret. It’s as if the Three Stooges starred in a sequel to “Breaking Bad.”

Last week, we received additional confirmation of how outrageously President Trump behaved in his efforts to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden and to absolve Russia of 2016 election interference. A second whistleblower emerged with further information about the July 25 call between Zelensky and Trump, and the original whistleblower reported that a White House official who listened in on the call found it “crazy” and “frightening.” The Post also reported that political appointees in the White House budget office froze aid to Ukraine despite concerns from career officials that doing so was improper.

The Ukraine scandal deepened when Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, Soviet-born associates of Trump’s lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, were arrested by the FBI on charges of violating federal campaign finance laws to funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars from murky sources to Republican candidates. While working with Giuliani to dig up dirt on Biden, they were also attempting to profit from their political connections to strike cushy business deals in Ukraine.

Trump claims that he was fighting corruption in Ukraine. Instead he was fostering corruption. Marie Yovanovitch told Congress that she was abruptly fired as ambassador to Ukraine not only because she was unwilling to further Giuliani’s plot to malign Biden but also because “individuals who have been named in the press as contacts of Mr. Giuliani may well have believed that their personal financial ambitions were stymied by our anti-corruption policy in Ukraine.”

By the end of the week, there were reports that Giuliani himself was being investigated by his former colleagues in the Southern District of New York on charges of violating lobbying laws. If Giuliani is indicted, he would join a long list of Trump associates — including the president’s personal lawyer, campaign chairman and national security adviser — who have run afoul of the law.

The former mayor of New York also featured prominently in another scandal that broke last week: The New York Times reported that Giuliani and former attorney general Michael Mukasey persuaded Trump to try to release their client, Reza Zarrab, an Iranian-Turkish gold trader who has been sitting in jail on charges of orchestrating a multibillion-dollar scheme to evade sanctions on Iran. Trump asked his then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson for help to free Zarrab, but Tillerson refused. In any other administration, this would have been headline news for weeks, but because of the glut of corruption in this administration, this story has come and gone.

While the administration continued to leak like crazy, more senior officials were leaving the sinking ship. Acting Homeland Security Secretary Kevin McAleenan — the fourth individual to hold that post in the Trump administration — quit on Friday, apparently because he objected to being undercut by Trump and other extreme nativists. His critical post is now vacant. Also quitting was Michael McKinley, a senior adviser to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who was reportedly upset by “the secretary’s lack of public support for diplomats who have been named in the Ukraine controversy.”

The courts continued to rebuke the administration for its unlawful conduct. In just one day last week, Trump lost five major court cases concerning his attempts to keep his tax returns secret and to impose draconian restrictions on immigration.

Trump added to the chaos on Sunday night, Oct. 6, by impetuously giving Turkey a green light to invade northern Syria, thereby allowing Islamic State prisoners to escape and the United States’ Kurdish allies to be slaughtered. In one week, Trump undid five years of work to defeat Islamic State and foster a moderate, secular zone in Syria.

Seemingly unperturbed by the ethical and geopolitical disasters in his wake, Trump continued with his usual routine: golfing, watching TV (he urged his Twitter followers to vote for his former press secretary Sean Spicer on “Dancing With the Stars”), wallowing in maudlin self-pity (“Serial killers,” he tweeted, “get more Due Process than the Democrats give to the President”), and of course spewing bombastic insults. At a campaign rally in Minneapolis, Trump reviled not only Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) but also other Somali refugees who have found haven in Minnesota. Racist and xenophobic comments are Trump’s go-to moves when he’s feeling the political heat.

Note that this is an incomplete chronicle of only one week — albeit a week that is a strong contender (against some stiff competition) for the worst week of Trump’s entire presidency. Commentator Charlie Sykes notes that in 1980 the question was: “Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?” In 2020 it will be: “Can you take another four years of this?” I can’t even take another week like last week — much less four more years.

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1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

From your own article

Well that's the big question, are the ones that were bombed being used by rebel/terrorist forces or were they just bombed for the hell of it. Kind of a big clarification that needs to be made. It's already admitted that the anti-Assad Islamic extremists are straight up targeting Christians.

Ding, ding, ding, that's the point. The neocons that want to destroy Syria don't give a damn about what happens to the Christians in the aftermath. So please, spare me the nonsense that they do. We know what happened to the Christians in Iraq after the neocons destroyed that country.

Right, just ignore the fact that Assad has been attacking Christians too. Glad to know where your priorities are. Help only the Christians right?

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20 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

Right, just ignore the fact that Assad has been attacking Christians too. Glad to know where your priorities are. Help only the Christians right?

Can you read? In the article, the Assad regime is claiming any attacks on churches were when they were being used by opposition forces. Bishop Nicholas James Samra himself is saying he doesn't think the Assad regime is intentionally targeting churches or religious sites. And the article itself states that the Islamic radicals are definitely targeting Christians. So we are left with an open ended question, are Assad's forces intentionally targeting Christian sites or are they simply fighting rebel forces and the any religious sites being hit are collateral damage. I would find it hard to believe that Assad would randomly attack Christian sites since the Christian minority in Syria is generally on his side. It's more likely than not that any church attacks are what Assad is saying they are, collateral damage in trying to put down these rebels.

 

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Still got absolutely nothing to do with what I said to start this off :lol:

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17 minutes ago, soon said:

Still got absolutely nothing to do with what I said to start this off :lol:

I'm having a discussion with General Zhukov now.

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In the 90s, Republicans were convinced the Clintons were guilty of some sort of real estate scheme and wanted (and got) a special prosecutor to investigate.

Now...  Not so much.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/propublica-tax-documents-trump-fraud-property-taxes-buildings.html?via=homepage_taps_top

"ProPublica got ahold ofproperty tax documents of the Trump Organization, adding to the growing corpus of financial info on the president that strongly points to Trump deploying a secret financial weapon to maintain the appearance of “successful businessman”—fraud. ProPublica collated financial info from public sources and found the president was reporting different numbers on his properties to lenders and tax authorities. Trump arranged the numbers to paint a rosier picture of his buildings’ performance for lenders to secure cheaper loans, and then rearranged those numbers to look less profitable when reporting to the taxman in order to lower his property taxes."

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https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-syria-turkey-meltdown.html

"In any event, one week has passed since he wrote the letter [to Turkey], and there has been no deal. Apparently, Erdogan was not impressed. He threw the letter in the wastebasket and proceeded to invade northern Syria.

Three things are worth noting here. First, Trump was ranting at Erdogan for doing something that, a few days earlier, he’d invited Erdogan to do. Second, this letter was publicized in an exclusive scoop by Fox Business Network, suggesting that Trump wanted it made public—that he thought it made him look good.

Third, also on Wednesday, Trump sent Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to Turkey, to work out a deal with Erdogan, with no assurance that a deal was in the offing. Yet even before they held the meeting (and here’s where things get really weird), Trump told reporters that he didn’t care what the Turks did in Syria.

During the session with reporters in the Oval Office, Trump went further, saying, “The PKK, which is part of the Kurds, as you know, is probably worse at terror and more of a terrorist threat in many ways than ISIS. … So it’s a very semi-complicated, not too complicated if you’re smart, but a semi-complicated problem.” It’s a toss-up which is more appalling: the ignorance, the slander (clearly parroting Erdogan talking points), or the blithe incoherence.

Asked about the possible threat posed by ISIS militants who escaped from their Syrian prisons while their Kurdish captors had to go fight the Turks, Trump replied that Americans didn’t need to worry about “terrorists 7,000 miles away”—ignoring the fact that Osama bin Laden was that far away from New York when his agents smashed a plane into the World Trade Center."

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Just as an aside, a culture shock anecdote.

PKK is commie and the Peshmerga has socialist factions and support. Both represent the religious makeup of the broader population. The 'joke' among the western fighters who joined them are the broader peoples movement that PKK is affiliated with was "This is just like Chiapas all over again!! Lol"

Meaning in the west commies understand themselves as atheist only. But it is becoming clear to them that the communists in ELZN (Mexico), PKK and Peshmerga actually support The People. So the westerners are shocked to travel around the world to join in marxist uprisings only to find that their new commie allies are religious. 

Anyways, back to the serious matters at hand.

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Trump awards next year's G7 meeting to his resort in Miami.  

But China, Bidens, Ukraine, corruption....  

Grumble, grumble, grumble...

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2 hours ago, downzy said:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-syria-turkey-meltdown.html

"In any event, one week has passed since he wrote the letter [to Turkey], and there has been no deal. Apparently, Erdogan was not impressed. He threw the letter in the wastebasket and proceeded to invade northern Syria.

Three things are worth noting here. First, Trump was ranting at Erdogan for doing something that, a few days earlier, he’d invited Erdogan to do. Second, this letter was publicized in an exclusive scoop by Fox Business Network, suggesting that Trump wanted it made public—that he thought it made him look good.

Third, also on Wednesday, Trump sent Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to Turkey, to work out a deal with Erdogan, with no assurance that a deal was in the offing. Yet even before they held the meeting (and here’s where things get really weird), Trump told reporters that he didn’t care what the Turks did in Syria.

During the session with reporters in the Oval Office, Trump went further, saying, “The PKK, which is part of the Kurds, as you know, is probably worse at terror and more of a terrorist threat in many ways than ISIS. … So it’s a very semi-complicated, not too complicated if you’re smart, but a semi-complicated problem.” It’s a toss-up which is more appalling: the ignorance, the slander (clearly parroting Erdogan talking points), or the blithe incoherence.

Asked about the possible threat posed by ISIS militants who escaped from their Syrian prisons while their Kurdish captors had to go fight the Turks, Trump replied that Americans didn’t need to worry about “terrorists 7,000 miles away”—ignoring the fact that Osama bin Laden was that far away from New York when his agents smashed a plane into the World Trade Center."

Oh no, the glorious PKK has been slandered! It's funny that Hezbollah would probably get 'slandered' by this writer for being terrorists, interesting double standard.

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3 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Oh no, the glorious PKK has been slandered! It's funny that Hezbollah would probably get 'slandered' by this writer for being terrorists, interesting double standard.

Sorry, but I think you missed the point.  

Trump makes a claim that the PKK is worse than ISIS.  By any metric that is clearly not true and muddies the waters about who the PKK are, what they stand for, and what they have done. 

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38 minutes ago, downzy said:

Sorry, but I think you missed the point.  

Trump makes a claim that the PKK is worse than ISIS.  By any metric that is clearly not true and muddies the waters about who the PKK are, what they stand for, and what they have done. 

Ok, worse no, but they are terrorists nonetheless (sure freedom fighters depending on what side of the conflict you are on). I'm just saying, I doubt the writer would be as forgiving to Hezbollah as he is to the PKK.

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35 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Ok, worse no, but they are terrorists nonetheless (sure freedom fighters depending on what side of the conflict you are on). I'm just saying, I doubt the writer would be as forgiving to Hezbollah as he is to the PKK.

Maybe, maybe not.  But I would assume Kaplan would strike the same chord in any asinine comparison to ISIS.

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They really need to get on the same page:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvgnjb/trumps-chief-of-staff-yup-there-was-a-quid-pro-quo-on-ukraine-aid?utm_source=vicenewsfacebook&fbclid=IwAR2-UVM73CzYyfN6zKiZKtjcPiX8lFLf5kyCKx45ZBDXxonNEYlCJ9J0HMQ

Apparently there was admitted quid pro quo, but as the "acting" chief of staff for the White House says, "get over it."

As I suspected, the defence this administration will eventually land on is, "yeah, so what?"

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Bush has the audacity to talk about destabilization and danger to peace :jerkoff:

 

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2 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

Bush has the audacity to talk about destabilization and danger to peace :jerkoff:

 

Two thoughts. Why doesn't anyone make the case that the US should actually side WITH Iran. I lean towards just being an honest broker and being mostly hands off, but siding with Iran over the Saudi/Israel axis would probably be better. Iran has a way more enlightened form of Islam than they do in Saudi Arabia. Also, their economy would probably take off without the sanctions and would be a stabilizing influence in the region. Really, they should be allowed to be what they ought to be, a regional hegemon.

 

And two, the term isolationist needs to be retired. It's just a pejorative that really doesn't mean anything when you think about. Just because I'm not a fan of wars that aren't in the national interest, doesn't mean I'm not a fan of diplomacy, trade, and travel. How is that 'isolationist', by definition? Lol.

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