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Fewer and fewer people believe there's any point in voting. 10-15 years ago I could barely tell anyone I thought voting was a joke without getting into a huge argument. Now I tell everyone and most people agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, the people really have no say in who the candidates are so it'll probably turn real ugly before it gets better.


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Fewer and fewer people believe there's any point in voting. 10-15 years ago I could barely tell anyone I thought voting was a joke without getting into a huge argument. Now I tell everyone and most people agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, the people really have no say in who the candidates are so it'll probably turn real ugly before it gets better.

Exactly. Obama in many ways has confirmed exactly this line of thinking - here was a fresh candidate promising "Hope & Change" and all that other bullshit he spouted on the campaign trail. When he got into office he actually continued and strengthened the very Bush Doctrine policies he promised to reject,

It is fucking unbelievable to be honest. The only way it can change is if a third party candidate can unite all the disenfranchised voters who opt out at every election. After Obama I'd say this is virtually impossible to achieve.

Which leads me to believe the only answer to this problem will be one very very ugly one that nobody actually would consciously want, that being an event that affects America to such an extent that it damages both Demorat and Republican party beyond repair.

We're talking an event of the magnitude of total economic collapse or a hot war of a magnitude that seriously damages the US, something wherein every single American citizen is affected.

The truly scary thing is that the two party system and their respective economic and military directives will bring about one or the other, maybe both.

The 20th Century was The American Century. Determining who the 21st century will belong to is being fought as we speak and it is going to get very ugly real soon.

The thought of Hillary or Jeb in the White House should fill everyone with dread.

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Fewer and fewer people believe there's any point in voting. 10-15 years ago I could barely tell anyone I thought voting was a joke without getting into a huge argument. Now I tell everyone and most people agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, the people really have no say in who the candidates are so it'll probably turn real ugly before it gets better.

Exactly. Obama in many ways has confirmed exactly this line of thinking - here was a fresh candidate promising "Hope & Change" and all that other bullshit he spouted on the campaign trail. When he got into office he actually continued and strengthened the very Bush Doctrine policies he promised to reject,

It is fucking unbelievable to be honest. The only way it can change is if a third party candidate can unite all the disenfranchised voters who opt out at every election. After Obama I'd say this is virtually impossible to achieve.

Which leads me to believe the only answer to this problem will be one very very ugly one that nobody actually would consciously want, that being an event that affects America to such an extent that it damages both Demorat and Republican party beyond repair.

We're talking an event of the magnitude of total economic collapse or a hot war of a magnitude that seriously damages the US, something wherein every single American citizen is affected.

The truly scary thing is that the two party system and their respective economic and military directives will bring about one or the other, maybe both.

The 20th Century was The American Century. Determining who the 21st century will belong to is being fought as we speak and it is going to get very ugly real soon.

The thought of Hillary or Jeb in the White House should fill everyone with dread.

couldnt agree more. i have yet in my time as a voter(28 years old) voted for someone i wanted to vote for. i never went into a voting center saying this is MY candidate and happily registered my vote. it is usually a lot of internal haggling about who i think could fuck up the country less or fuck it up at a slower rate than the other guy. who is the lesser of two evil's pretty much and i hold my nose and vote. a third party is sorely needed but it has been driven into the heads of voters or potential third party candidates that a third party will split the vote with one of the big parties causing the other big "evil party" to win.

so basically you have 25% on each side who are party voters, these are the people that vote party no matter what and the other side is satan incarnate who will eat your children if elected. the rest of the 50% are in the middle. these are broken into a few groups. some are voters that have leanings to a particular party but may dislike whats going on but in the end they either break to their party of old or just not bother voting.

that pretty much makes up the rest in the middle who have no party and who have views largely split between the parties and its this group that will pretty much make an election for one party or the other. this group would be an amazing place for a third party to start but it never starts with these disenfranchised voters who share both views of democrats and republicans it almost always starts with a candidate who just wants a more exclusive version of an already established party. nothing will happen until a group gains traction with the huge amount of disenfranchised voters and gets a legit candidate that appeals to these people and has money and backing that can step toe to toe with the likes of jeb bush and hilary clinton, hilary and jeb have the money to do whatever they want and they know it. they can hold 10,000 dollar a plate dinners(which is why i laugh when i hear parties talking about the evil rich) and can raise millions in a month or two. if you are someone that has brilliant ideas and youre someone that legitimately can bring large parts of the country together, you are basically shit out of luck since you cant get your message out to the media without huge amounts of money. jeb bush and hilary clinton will throw 1,000 dollars at you for every 100 you got(if not more).

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Fewer and fewer people believe there's any point in voting. 10-15 years ago I could barely tell anyone I thought voting was a joke without getting into a huge argument. Now I tell everyone and most people agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, the people really have no say in who the candidates are so it'll probably turn real ugly before it gets better.

You're speaking anecdotally, but statistically what you assert is incorrect. Voter turnout has remained relatively similarly since the 1920s. Voter participation during Presidential elections has remained static between 48 and 60 percent between 1920 and 2012. Partisan leanings haven't really changed much either (i.e. the percentage of the electorate that favours one party or the other hasn't strayed too far from 85 percent).

What has changed in the past thirty to thirty five years has been the realignment of party on an economic basis. Prior to the 1960s and 1970s, party allegiance was based primarily on race, and economics second (distant in some parts of the country; first in other parts). Once the parties realigned on economic philosophies in the late 1960s, things changed dramatically.

I fundamentally disagree with anyone who argues that Obama is a continuation of previous Presidents regarding domestic policy. Whereas every President since Reagan has promoted the notion that "government is the problem" (including Bill Clinton), Obama has been a forceful reinvigoration of the notion that a collective response in the form of government can be a force for good. Granted, he's not the liberal/progressive hope that many his supporters envisioned, but in many ways, he's the Democrat's answer to Ronald Reagan; a retort to the notion that there is no room for government in how society solves what ails it the most. He's a moderate conservative pragmatist much like Reagan, only he operates in a time and place where the pendulum has swung dramatically to render him a liberal champion.

Independent voters should not be confused with disenfranchised voters. Most independent voters lean one way or another. Most want to make their vote count. This is why notions of a third party rising from obscurity are nothing more than a pipe dream. Republicans and Democrats hold an oligopoly on American democracy. It is anything but a "free market" of political persuasions. I strongly disagree that a third party will ever become dominant. More likely to occur is one party, either Republican or Democrat, will co-opt whatever up-and-coming trend or ethos. Third-parties will, for the foreseeable future, be nothing more than the playground of the lunatic fringe. Most Americans, when quizzed on specific policy areas, are moderate. It's this cushy centre where Democrats and (up until seven or eight years ago) most Republicans live. Any third party that seeks any level of nominal success will need to make inroads with the moderates. Personally, I just don't see that happening anytime soon (i.e the next twenty to thirty years).

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The funny thing is that many of the policies of the Dems & GOP would be considered lunatic fringe in Europe. That the Dems are considered Left at all is truly laughable.

And a 50-60% voter turnout is considered a disaster here. Which it is. 40-50% couldn't be arsed voting? That's not a sign of a healthy democracy at all.

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Bran hit the nail on the head. There will never be a viable third party here because the people with the money who control who gets campaign funding will never fund a third party. The odds of winning are too long to risk that kind of money on a long shot.

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If you live in the US, you know most people think politics is a joke. If you don't, you try to fashion statistics so that they fit the narrative you want to believe.


I can play the statistics game too, but I live in America, so I don't really have to. But anyway:

The last time voter turnout was this low, the U.S. was fighting WWII

The last time voter turnout for a national election was as low as it was on Nov.4, Hitler was still in power, and Mitch McConnell was only nine months old.

http://time.com/3576090/midterm-elections-turnout-world-war-two/

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What do you guys make of Jeb Bush?

I don't care for the GOP and by all accounts never will but the thought of Hillary Clinton in power between 2016 and 2020 fills me with dread.

Hopefully those emails will end her candidacy before it begins but I doubt it. Who'd step up in that case? Biden is too old and Warren seems adament that she won't run.

Christ its fucking abysmal.

The politicians at the forfront of presidential politics has been atrocious in the US for years now - Bush, McCain, Hillary, Romney, Palin, Pelosi, Kerry, Biden, Obama, Edwards, Lieberman, Huckabee

Jesus Christ its like a list of venereal diseases

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If you live in the US, you know most people think politics is a joke. If you don't, you try to fashion statistics so that they fit the narrative you want to believe.

I can play the statistics game too, but I live in America, so I don't really have to. But anyway:

The last time voter turnout was this low, the U.S. was fighting WWII

The last time voter turnout for a national election was as low as it was on Nov.4, Hitler was still in power, and Mitch McConnell was only nine months old.

http://time.com/3576090/midterm-elections-turnout-world-war-two/

You're talking about two different electorates - midterm vs presidential. Voter participation in presidential elections have remain consistent since the 1920s. Nobody is fashioning statistics to fit a narrative. But feel free to continue with your predictable and snarky ad hominem retorts.

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WASHINGTON — The White House is removing a federal regulation that subjects its Office of Administration to the Freedom of Information Act, making official a policy under Presidents Bush and Obama to reject requests for records to that office.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/03/16/white-house-foia-regulations-deleted/24844253/

Transparent as fuck.

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Birds are better looking in American politics i must say. Ann Coulter, I'd have a go. Sarah Palin too, i bet she's just fuckin' vicious in the sack.

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Nothing, nothing at all! If she lost 6 stone of weight, 20 years of age, done something about her hair and her choppers, got a firm in to sort out her T&A and got a face transplant i might fancy her too :lol:

Edited by Len B'stard

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all in all american politicians are more classy. Sarah Palin is the "it girl". and John Kerry's wig never comes off :lol:

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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, probably stop short of voting for her actually? I'd almost like to see her as president just to see her completely fuck America from top to bottom, it'd be hilairious :lol: As long as they put someone else in charge of foreign policy.

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Nothing, nothing at all! If she lost 6 stone of weight, 20 years of age, done something about her hair and her choppers, got a firm in to sort out her T&A and got a face transplant i might fancy her too :lol:

You've had worse. :lol:

annwiddecombeL_468x652.jpg

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She looks like some famous bloke in that picture but the name fuckin' escapes me at the minute :lol: i think it's a football pundit.

EDIT: No, no, it's someone from The Bill, whats his fuckin' name now, fuck!

Edited by Len B'stard

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If I was American, I would vote for Palin. Got to love a woman who kills a bear for a hobby.

and Hillary cracks tough nuts

169p43q.jpg

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Bill Clinton was the coolest president ever. First of all he had the coolest accent. He just sounded so chill. And bangin' birds left right and centre all over the White House, what a fuckin' lad, love him :) Bill Clinton was a bad motherfucker. Played the sax too, all round geezer.

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He likes Rugby also. He lived in Britain on a Rhodes scholarship and developed a taste for Rugby and a British pint.

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Still transparent.

The Obama administration set a record again for censoring government files or outright denying access to them last year under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act, according to a new analysis of federal data by The Associated Press.

The government took longer to turn over files when it provided any, said more regularly that it couldn't find documents and refused a record number of times to turn over files quickly that might be especially newsworthy.

It also acknowledged in nearly 1 in 3 cases that its initial decisions to withhold or censor records were improper under the law — but only when it was challenged.

Its backlog of unanswered requests at year's end grew remarkably by 55 percent to more than 200,000. It also cut by 375, or about 9 percent, the number of full-time employees across government paid to look for records. That was the fewest number of employees working on the issue in five years.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ab029d7c625149348143a51ff61175c6/us-sets-new-record-denying-censoring-government-files

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Yeah, I agree. It's disappointing considering the claims during the election season.

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