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US Politics/Elections Thread

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2 hours ago, downzy said:

Took the quiz and discovered that Andrew Yang is my preferred candidate:

Mine: 1. Bernie 2. Warren...........................3. Booker? :vomit:

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4 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

Mine: 1. Bernie 2. Warren...........................3. Booker? :vomit:

I think if America were to start anew I would support someone like Sanders or Warren.  Their policy prescriptions would fit in very well in countries like Canada or Western Europe.  

But America isn't ready for revolution.  Their agendas, should either become President, would be DOA.  

And even if by the holiest of miracles they could get something passed by both the House and the Senate, a large part of their platforms would likely get shot down by the Courts, which have been dramatically remade by Trump and his Republican allies in the Senate.  A President Sanders or Warren would simply sit on four more years of gridlock.  The only viable path I see for the U.S. is in incrementalism in areas like healthcare or tax policy.  

 

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58 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

I watched a good hour or so yesterday and that Sunderland fellow repeatedly said that president Trump told him no quid pro quo. Other than presumptions, where is the proof?

First, just because Trump told him no quid pro quo doesn't mean their wasn't quid pro quo.

Second, Trump's statement to Sondland came near the very end of the scheme when rumblings of the whistleblower started to take form.  It was very likely Trump trying to cover his tracks at that point.

Third, Sondland did testify that he believe there was a quid pro quo with respect to the Ukrainian president getting a meeting with Trump.  Here is his exact words: "“I know that members of this committee have frequently framed these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a ‘quid pro quo?’.   “As I testified previously, with regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes.

Mr Giuliani’s requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a White House visit for President Zelenskiy.  Mr Giuliani demanded that Ukraine make a public statement announcing investigations of the 2016 election/DNC server and Burisma. Mr Giuliani was expressing the desires of the president of the United States, and we knew that these investigations were important to the president.”

Fourth, it doesn't matter whether there was a quid pro quo or not.  Recall what the entire Mueller investigation was about.  Whether then candidate Trump colluded with the Russians with interference in the 2016.  Asking a foreign national, operative, or country to provide a material political benefit is a crime.  Even if Trump never asked for something in return, the simple act of asking for an investigation into his then likely political rival in 2020 is a crime.  It's the very thing Mueller investigated Trump for but found no evidence.

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As a non american how hair sniffing jo is popular im not understanding. I still cant get past his hair sniffing creepiness.

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43 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Andrew Yang here, too.

Wasnt he promising each american 1000.00 a month?.

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28 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

And there you have it, 1000s of HK students/protesters are alive because of President Trump! 

Thats not how I would characterize this situation (potential situation, unless he signed it just as you posted and Ive yet to see it). First Trump did not draft the bill and there has even been speculation about a presidential veto, though unlikely. 

I havent seen anything to suggest the bill would 'save' protestors, nor does the bill explicitly support the protest movements demand for increased democracy and autonomy. It simply calls for the withdrawal agreement with Britain to be respected. (noteworthy is the said withdrawal agreement runs out before too long)

Additionally, US responses to human rights issues abroad are inconsistent at best and one should explore what motivates the US to engage, or not, on a case by case basis. The thrust of the bill is premised on trade. And they are already in a trade war with China. Theres US citizens and business interests too.

https://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKBN1XV0G5

My spit take is that Hong Kong can clearly be seen as intentionally escalating the protest situation which might be more destabilizing / as destabilizing as the protest movement itself. The US economy would really suffer if ports closed, if Hong Kong based US businesses fell into either belligerents crosshairs, etc. Good optics for the ongoing trade war as well.

Edited by soon

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@soon President Trump just said so on Fox and Friends this morning. Said he told the president of China to hold the army back.

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3 hours ago, Coma16 said:

@soon President Trump just said so on Fox and Friends this morning. Said he told the president of China to hold the army back.

Again, just because Trump says something doesn’t make it fact. I thought this would be obvious by now. 

Just look how he took credit this week for an Apple factory in Texas that has been opened since 2013. 

With respect Hong Kong protests, realize that Trump would sacrifice the protestors in a new york minute if China gave him more concessions in trade talks.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/22/781972199/president-trump-waffles-on-hong-kong-democracy-bill

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18 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

Legendary interview of Trump on the upcoming FISA reports (December 9th).

 

Remember when he told the truth here too? :lol: 

 

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1 hour ago, Dazey said:

Remember when he told the truth here too? :lol: 

 

Don't you know that all "legendary" interviews happen on a Fox News morning show?  

What a sad joke this all is.  

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43 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I'm old enough to remember Trump's legendary deportation raids that netted like a few hundred people.

Imagine how many he'd have got if he searched outside of the staff room at Mar-a-Lago?

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On 2019-11-17 at 10:50 PM, Jakey Styley said:

What do you think the consequences of each will be? 

Apparently nothing...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/us/politics/russia-investigation-inspector-general-report.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

No evidence or findings of bias by top FBI brass while it was determined the origins of the investigation were not the product of political malfeasance.

The only thing found was one low-level lawyer who altered an email relating to a wire-tap of Carter Page:

"The inspector general apparently did not assert in the draft report that any of the problems he found were so material that the court would have rejected the Justice Department’s requests to continue surveilling Mr. Page. But the people familiar with the draft were uncertain about whether Mr. Horowitz said the problems were immaterial, or instead avoided taking a position on that question."

This sounds a lot like the IRS "scandal" during the Obama administration.  At worst it's just a case of a one or two low-level employees bad at their jobs.  

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On 11/15/2019 at 3:22 PM, Jakey Styley said:

There is no legislative path for Bernie's Medicare For All, not only because of GOP control of the Senate but also because there are huge numbers of citizens, Democrats and Republicans alike, who don't want to lose their employer based insurance. There are many members of congress who can't afford to be the representative who took away large swaths of their constituents' insurance without someone running against them at home and beating them based on that.

Also, to dismiss Warren for once identifying as a Republican is just tribal. Furthermore, she specifically does not identify as a socialist, which helps makes her a more electable candidate than Sanders. There's nothing wrong with supporting Sanders over Warren, but as of the information given right now, come election day, I really think the strategically apt thing for any Sanders supporter to do is support Warren, and until we see more polls like the one posted above, I don't see what reason there is to believe otherwise. I wouldn't mind seeing this change though! And maybe it will with how poorly Warren is rolling out her healthcare plan.

 

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3 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

The house isn't going back to Republican control in 2020.  The Senate is where Democrats need to worry.

Democrats are better off pounding on kitchen-table issues like healthcare, drug prices, gun control and education than focusing on impeachment.  Otherwise the Republican attack would be that Democrats only care about impeachment.  Reminding voters that Democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time is a better strategy than limiting their ad dollars to providing cover on impeachment.  

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If you still believe Trump did nothing wrong or that it hasn't been proven, the only answer at this point is you're an idiot.  I've got nothing but contempt and disdain for the Republican party and those who continue to support the President at this point.  

Kaplan over at Slate does a great job of summarizing how foolish Republicans on the Hill and Trump supporters looked after this week's testimony.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/11/impeachment-watergate-trump-nixon-schiff-howard-baker.html?via=taps_top

And it's worth repeating: "Fuck Nunes."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/22/politics/nunes-vienna-trip-ukrainian-prosecutor-biden/index.html

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Warrens appearance on Desus and Mero the other day, where they played an escape room, was so cringy! Almost as cringy as watching Crowder do anything :lol:

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Great podcast on what's happening and how the impeachment process has less to do with what Trump did and what Republicans are willing to accept:

https://megaphone.link/VMP2193066340

Best line and description for understanding the impeachment inquiry: "It's better to have a corrupt Republican as President than any Democrat." 

"It's better to have a corrupt Republican as President than any Democrat." Also touches on something I've been ranting about for years: asymmetrical polarization.  Polarization between the Republican and Democratic parties has not been balanced.  The Republican party has become far more partisan and polarized than the Democratic party over the past 40 years.  Trump is a product of this trend and dynamic.  The forces that produced a Trump presidency has been around and growing in prowess for years prior to Trump running and winning election in 2016.  

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This was very informative.

Those are informed voters and you can sense they have low expectations... the dnc candidate field is weak and so crowded not a single candidate will unify the party.

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