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US Politics/Elections Thread

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27 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Your guy’s own campaign literally pretended to be Thanos today. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50741594

 

"The responses on Twitter included one from historian and author Kevin M Kruse, who noted: "You've made Trump a supervillain and depicted him in the scene where his plan to kill everyone in the universe falls apart due to his arrogance and incompetence.""

:facepalm::awesomeface:

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30 minutes ago, downzy said:

But yeah, Biden simply wanted to do it to protect his son for some reason....

Part of the reason yeah not 100% But part of the reason. As the prosecutor was investigating his son lmao

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WTF is Thanos?

Edit: I gather a supervillian mass murderer 

Edited by soon

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3 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Part of the reason yeah not 100% But part of the reason. As the prosecutor was investigating his son lmao

Show me one credible report that shows former Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Hunter Biden.

Again, please stop making shit up.  

4 minutes ago, soon said:

WTF is Thanos?

Edit: I gather a supervillian mass murderer 

Someone normal people wouldn't want to be compared to.

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4 minutes ago, downzy said:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/hunter-biden-was-going-to-be-interviewed-in-burisma-investigation-former-prosecutor_3169056.html

Former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin said that his office prepared in the summer of 2016 to interview then-Vice President Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden as part of a money laundering probe into Hunter Biden’s employer, the Burisma energy company.

That’s when the pressure to stop investigating Hunter Biden’s possible role in the alleged crimes increased, Shokin told One America News.

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6 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/hunter-biden-was-going-to-be-interviewed-in-burisma-investigation-former-prosecutor_3169056.html

Former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin said that his office prepared in the summer of 2016 to interview then-Vice President Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden as part of a money laundering probe into Hunter Biden’s employer, the Burisma energy company.

That’s when the pressure to stop investigating Hunter Biden’s possible role in the alleged crimes increased, Shokin told One America News.

Except he's full of shit.  He let the investigation lapse for over a year and did nothing when asked by foreign investigators to look into Burisma.

He's simply trying to rewrite history and get his old job back.   There's nothing that corroborates his account nor do they line up with the timeline of events:

https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html

 

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5 minutes ago, downzy said:

Except he's full of shit.  He let the investigation lapse for over a year and did nothing when asked by foreign investigators to look into Burisma.

He's simply trying to rewrite history and get his old job back.   There's nothing that corroborates his account nor do they line up with the timeline of events:

https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html

 

Joe Biden claimed he Never discussed Burisma with his son. There is an actual fucking picture of Joe, Hunter and a Burisima Executive Golfing. 

Image result for Joe Biden Hunter Biden and Burisma photo golf

 

Edited by Gibsonfender2323

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4 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Joe Biden claimed he Never discussed Burisma with his son. There is an actual fucking picture of Joe, Hunter and a Burisima Executive Golfing. 

Image result for Joe Biden Hunter Biden and Burisma photo golf

 

That's still besides the point and not relevant.

The firing of Shokin was the stated policy of the U.S. State Department, the Obama White house, and had bi-partisan support. 

Those are facts.  

You also fail to ignore the timeline laid out in the article I posted.  

I don't understand why it's so difficult for you to acknowledge the reality of the situation.  I get you like Trump and want to believe what you want, but why ignore what's painfully obvious to anyone who cares about what actually happened?

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 I only like what trump has done for the economy. I am libertarian on all other issue

Yes, it does the whole reason Trump asked for the investigation in the first place is that he believed that Bidens were corrupt and that they were trying to sabotage him in 2016 (Paul Manafort).

 

The President has the authority to ask countries to investigate corrupt officials like you just said if it's not for personal. This is exactly what the Obama admin did to get the Paul Manafort Investigation and how they were able to build there case they worked with the Ukrainian Government  

Sondland the Ambassador perjured himself during the hearing. First, he said there was a Quid Pro Quo. but then he said there was not. and was back and forht on his stance.

 

Trump did ask the Ukrainians to investigate Biden but we don't know if it was for corrupt intent. I want to hear from the whistleblower himself.

15 minutes ago, downzy said:
 
 
 
1
15 minutes ago, downzy said:
 
ff
 
 
1 minute ago, downzy said:

I don't understand why it's so difficult for you to acknowledge the reality of the situation.  I get you like Trump and want to believe what you want, but why ignore what's painfully obvious to anyone who cares about what actually happened?

That's still besides the point and not relevant.

Edited by Gibsonfender2323

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46 minutes ago, downzy said:

Someone normal presidents wouldn't want to be compared to in any case let alone an official campaign slogan.

:thumbsup: 

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@Gibsonfender2323

Before we get into it, this is why your country is tearing itself apart.  There's no respect or concern for the truth anymore.  All that matters is that your own side prevails over the other side.  And make no mistake, America will stop being a democracy if this continues.  Like Russia and Turkey, the absence of truth leads to democracy's exit.  People like yourself and those defending Trump on this matter are conditioning things for the worse.  Yes, a partisan impeachment is a terrible thing for the country.  Even worse than that is impeachable offences that go unanswered, leaving the executive branch to run roughshod over the Constitution by trampling over the norms and traditions that have kept America on track.  It's not laws or the presence of a justice system that allows a democracy to exist but the norms and traditions.  Trump and his supporters are willingly or unwillingly destroying the social glue that has held the country together.  It amazes me that there enough suckers in America to allow this to happen but then again I was dumbfounded that there were enough soft and amoral people in America to vote someone like Trump into office in 2016.  

But in the end, I suspect many of Trump's supporters don't really give a flying fuck about democracy.  So long as their team wins, regardless of how or the ethics of it all, everything is fine.  

That's a recipe for the end of democracy.

Because if you allow for a sitting President to give license to foreign governments to investigate a private American citizen for his or her own political gain, then all bets are off.  It means there's nothing a President can't do that would warrant impeachment.  You should be concerned as a libertarian about giving the President the authority to underwrite investigation by foreign governments  for their own personal benefits.  Today it's the President's chief political rival, tomorrow it could be an investigation by Russia to investigate those who speak ill of a sitting American president.  It's astonishing how people aren't putting two and two together and how precarious this situation is.

And all for a guy who doesn't give a flying fuck about you or the people who votes and supports him.  It's as transparent as glass.  

As for your the points you raised in your post...

3 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Yes, it does the whole reason Trump asked for the investigation in the first place is that he believed that Bidens were corrupt and that they were trying to sabotage him in 2016 (Paul Manafort).

Except Trump really had no interest in whether corruption was actually occurring.  Sonderland made this clear in his testimony when he said that Trump only wanted the announcement of an investigation.  He really didn't care if one actually took place.

And why is he asking about Biden now, a year and a half out from the election in which every poll at the time showing Biden with large leads over Trump?  Come on man, don't be daft.  You can't be that dumb.  

As for the whole Paul Manafort - Ukraine involvement in the 2016 elections, that's a whole bunch of nonsense.  Trump could have called the Senators who sat on the Senate Intelligence committee who looked into the matter and didn't find anything to substantiate claims that the Ukraine involved itself in the 2016 election.  The U.S. intelligence community is united in saying that Ukraine wasn't involved.  Manafort pled guilty to his crimes.  If Ukraine were setting this whole thing up, why would Trump's former campaign chairman plead guilty to something he was set up on.

3 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

The President has the authority to ask countries to investigate corrupt officials like you just said if it's not for personal. This is exactly what the Obama admin did to get the Paul Manafort Investigation and how they were able to build there case they worked with the Ukrainian Government  

Presidents don't call up foreign leaders and ask for investigations into anyone.  They just don't.  There's a procedure by which the Attorney General, who is suppose to act independently from the personal interests of the President, initiates investigations through the DOJ.

Also, how did Obama benefit personally from having Paul Manafort investigated.  You're assuming here that Obama himself directed federal agencies to investigate Manfort.  That's not what happened.  Generally the President has far bigger issues to concern himself with.  Manafort was investigated as a result of intercepted Russian communications as well as financial transactions.  This investigation started long before Manafort had anything to do with Trump and his Presidential campaign.  Unless you're asserting that Obama knew, somehow, that Manafort was going to somehow be involved with a possible Trump presidential campaign way back in 2014.

Governments work all the time with other governments on joint investigations.  Again, that's not what Trump was doing here.  Again, he didn't really give a shit about the Ukraine or what Biden was doing.  As Sonderland testified, all Trump wanted was the announcement of an investigation.  That's it.

3 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Sondland the Ambassador perjured himself during the hearing. First, he said there was a Quid Pro Quo. but then he said there was not. and was back and forht on his stance.

Nope.  Not what he said.  He said the quid pro quo involved giving a White House meeting to the Ukrainian President.  He later said there was no quid pro quo about the money.  He actually had to come back and amend his testimony because everyone else who testified on the matter countered Sonderland's previous testimony.  There was no back and forth in Sonderland's public testimony.  He was quite clear that there was a quid pro quo on the matter of the meeting but to his recollection it did not involve the financial and military aid to Ukraine.

3 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Trump did ask the Ukrainians to investigate Biden but we don't know if it was for corrupt intent. I want to hear from the whistleblower himself.

Yes we do.  It's why he ran his efforts to root up dirt on Biden through Giuliani and not through the official diplomatic channels.  There was no reason to have the Ukrainians investigate the Bidens when he could have asked his own justice department to do so.  Moreover, it really doesn't matter what the intent was.  You can't have a sitting President ask another foreign leader to investigate a former Vice President and likely political rival in your re-election campaign.  You can't allow that to happen for the reasons I explained above.  This shouldn't be rocket science to anyone. 

As for the whistleblower, how is he or she is irrelevant at this point.  Everything in their report to the Inspector General was corroborated and validated by everyone else who testified.  It was corroborated by the transcript itself.  It's like asking who pulled the fire alarm.  If everyone can see there's a fire, what does it matter who pulled the alarm?

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6 hours ago, downzy said:

in the end, I suspect many of Trump's supporters don't really give a flying fuck about democracy.  So long as their team wins, regardless of how or the ethics of it all, everything is fine.

 Nope not all. and by the way, I am not a trump supporter(Voting libertarian in 2020) 

This is the essence of it, in a nutshell, you do not understand the voters that voted for trump (many of which are the ones that voted for Obama twice)

Trump supporters and Bernie Sanders supporters are two sides of the same coin.  They have felt shafted by the system and refused to give in anymore and said fuck it burn the system to the ground;

They have been hurt by the economic neoliberalism, bad trade deals, and corrupt foreign policy and endless wars of the past 20 years and said fuck it burn the system down. You need to understand the mentality of the voters because they have been abused by the system that has kept the elites in power for so long(Clinton Bush etc). Trump and Bernie Sanders are a direct result of the 2008 finical crises where many of the wall street executives walked away with millions for running entire companies into the ground many of the Bernie Bros were so pissed off by the DNC in 2016 cheating to get Hillary in that they voted for trump. I am not defending Trump at all costs I 

am pointing out the facts that 2016 of the election and why the Bernies and Trumps are so popular now   The 2008 Financial Crisis was a direct result of the bloated corruption that had started with Regans Wall Street Reforms which continued through Obama.

In order to understand the reason Trump got elected is not because of Russian troll farms or racism bullshit, It's because of the people being forced out of their homes losing their jobs and seeing their entire lives disappear from under them. and continue to be screwed over by the wall street bankers and tax frauds (Watch the movie Inside Job) The occupy wall street movement 2008 is a critical point in this nation's history.  People have seen there entire savings disappeared,  rising health care costs.  Might there be anti-immigrant rhetoric and racists views from Trump and the fringes of his base ABSOLUTELY!. But the fact of the matter is it's the fact that people have promised again and again that things will change

Hillary lost because many people believed she was the system. They were sick and tired of empty promises. (Also calling half the country you are going to represent  racist is not going to help you yes she won the popular vote but that's because of the vote stacking in California  and NY) 

Trump represents the anger that people have had towards congress and the system. They were promised under Obama that things would change the only got more bloated) Under Obama and Bush the US has been involved in 2 wars that should never have been fought in the first  They were tired of the phony statesmanship and elegance of Obama and Bush and said let's go for a guy is none of that. Bernie Sanders is the same way he is the Progressive Version of Trump. The DNC has not learned from this and this why Joe Biden is not going to be the nominee he is that same phony statesmanship and is the product of bloated Political system that was so shocked by Trump being elected that, they are doing anything to stop them. that's why impeachment polling is down in critical swing states.

In the end, it's not that they don't care about Trump doing shady things that might be corrupt they have known his personality for 40 years and how he is basically a scorched earth person. They said fuck it I am not taking the lies anymore. They know Washington has been doing the same things that the Democrats want to impeach trump for and just honestly don't care as long as they can put food on the table for their families and have a safe and productive life.

 

PELOSI IS NOT AN IDIOT.  he is not happy about having to do this and she knows this will screw her party next year.  Her hands were tied either satisfy the angry progressive base that was so pissed off that Hillary lost (The Squad etc) or face a rebellion in her caucus.

Trump and Bernie are a direct result in 2008 and you need to understand that they were able to captivate voters and overturn the status quo of their respective parties.

Watch this documentary as well as an inside job. It shows how Trump is the result of the 2008 crises 

FInally. This anger and frustration at the elites and populism is happening all over the world. It's not just the US. Brazil in 2018 with Bolsonaro, Mexico 2018 with AMLO, France with Marie Le'pen even though she did not win. Boris Johnson and Brexit, The Philippines. 

And they still have not learned 

 

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3 hours ago, lame ass security said:

It doesn't add up to 100 percent?

That and the headline doesn’t match the results. It says Biden and Warren lead, but it should say Biden and Sanders. 

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3 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

many of which are the ones that voted for Obama twice

Have proof of that.  Because from my reading it was in the 5 to 9 percent.  Not insignificant, but not what I would call "many."

3 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Trump represents the anger that people have had towards congress and the system.

Which is why many may have voted for him, but why stick with him?  His trade wars haven't (and won't) bring back manufacturing jobs while hurting many farmers and rural communities.  He's done nothing on healthcare other than to weaken Obamacare, making the system even worse.  Yearly deficits have ballooned to rival the deficits America faced in the first couple of years of the Obama administration.  What happened to fiscal responsibility?  The Tea Party?  Guess the problem wasn't the spending by the Obamacare after all.  

Second, when is making decisions out of anger and spite ever a good idea or leads to positive outcomes?  I get being angry, but it's wholly incomprehensible to give a guy like Donald Trump, a con artist if there ever was one, the keys to the nuclear codes.  You and others don't like Clinton.  But at least she's an adult not perpetuating lie after lie while relying on the worst instincts to stay afloat.  Donald Trump is the epitome of everything that is wrong about America; everything that the rest of the world hates and derides about America; and America embraced its worst in 2016.  Sorry, but I have no sympathies or no respect for a country that would turn to a man who launched his political career on a racist lie about a sitting President.   

4 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Under Obama and Bush the US has been involved in 2 wars that should never have been fought in the first

Again, incorrect.  Obama removed America from Iraq and never voted for either war.  And don't forget, Trump was for both wars (as were most Americans) when they were first launched.  So please save me the revisionist bullshit. 

4 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

They said fuck it I am not taking the lies anymore.

You've got to be kidding me.  So they were done with the lies and they voted in a man who lies with every second sentence he utters?  Come on.

4 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

They know Washington has been doing the same things that the Democrats want to impeach trump for and just honestly don't care as long as they can put food on the table for their families and have a safe and productive life.

If that's all that matters to Americans, then they are done as a nation.  It means the values and principles no longer matter so long as meat is cheap and they have a pay cheque that just covers expenses.  It's not a country that's long for this world if the norms and traditions that both parties had adhered to and respected until Trump came along are done.  Might as well turn to an autocratic despot at this point if the constitution no longer means anything.

4 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

PELOSI IS NOT AN IDIOT.  he is not happy about having to do this and she knows this will screw her party next year.  Her hands were tied either satisfy the angry progressive base that was so pissed off that Hillary lost (The Squad etc) or face a rebellion in her caucus.

Again, utter rubbish.  She's doing what she's obligated to do as is noted in the Constitution.  Congress is meant to check the Executive branch and vice versa.  Failure to uphold her responsibility is a failure to the duty she swore when she became a sitting representative.  If the Democrats were hell-bent on impeaching Trump they would have done it a long time ago.  You honestly think it's wise for them go down this path right before the primary season starts?  If you truly understood what Trump did and why it's so serious, you'd understand why Democrats had no choice.  

 

4 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Trump and Bernie are a direct result in 2008 and you need to understand that they were able to captivate voters and overturn the status quo of their respective parties

Which is why I'm not a fan or either, but for different reasons.  Trump because he represents the worst of America and isn't qualified to run a coffee shop, let alone the White House.  Sanders because he peddles fantasies that will never become law.  The system was not designed for revolution or vast and dramatic changes.  Anyone who studied the founding fathers and their reservations of monarchy rule knows why the devised a system that is suppose to be slow and cumbersome.  Sanders promotes policies that will never be accepted or passed overnight.  America has almost always been a nation of incrementalism because it's all the system will allow.  

4 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

FInally. This anger and frustration at the elites and populism is happening all over the world. It's not just the US. Brazil in 2018 with Bolsonaro, Mexico 2018 with AMLO, France with Marie Le'pen even though she did not win. Boris Johnson and Brexit, The Philippines.

Yes, it's not limited to America.  But America certainly shines bright in the dumbest political outcomes category (Britain a close second).  There are system and international challenges to global events, particularly in trade and growing inequality.  What people like Trump, Johnson, Le Pen, Bolsonaro and other populists peddle are easy solutions to complex problems.  Blame immigrants and elites for your problems.  Get rid of both and life will be great again.  The truth is globalization isn't going anywhere.  Some countries like South Korea, China, Germany, Norway, Sweden and to a certain extent Canada realize the way forward is through hard work and investing in your citizens while also accepting the best and brightest to study and work in your countries.  It's not building walls, blaming immigrants, and blowing smoke up voters asses that most right-wing populists have done to gain political power.  

 

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20 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Fake image? Looking at the white area behind the numbers it looks photoshopped.

I thought so too, but it's not.  It's actually the second headline of the news story.  The first banner listed Biden, Sanders and Warren:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/12/11/poll-texas-california-magic-wall-king-ip-sot-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

 

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5 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Her hands were tied either satisfy the angry progressive base that was so pissed off that Hillary lost (The Squad etc)

Sorry but if you knew the progressive base you would know how laugh out loud this statement is :lol:

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4 hours ago, downzy said:

Have proof of that.  Because from my reading it was in the 5 to 9 percent.  Not insignificant, but not what I would call "many."

Which is why many may have voted for him, but why stick with him?  His trade wars haven't (and won't) bring back manufacturing jobs while hurting many farmers and rural communities.  He's done nothing on healthcare other than to weaken Obamacare, making the system even worse.  Yearly deficits have ballooned to rival the deficits America faced in the first couple of years of the Obama administration.  What happened to fiscal responsibility?  The Tea Party?  Guess the problem wasn't the spending by the Obamacare after all.  

Second, when is making decisions out of anger and spite ever a good idea or leads to positive outcomes?  I get being angry, but it's wholly incomprehensible to give a guy like Donald Trump, a con artist if there ever was one, the keys to the nuclear codes.  You and others don't like Clinton.  But at least she's an adult not perpetuating lie after lie while relying on the worst instincts to stay afloat.  Donald Trump is the epitome of everything that is wrong about America; everything that the rest of the world hates and derides about America; and America embraced its worst in 2016.  Sorry, but I have no sympathies or no respect for a country that would turn to a man who launched his political career on a racist lie about a sitting President.   

Again, incorrect.  Obama removed America from Iraq and never voted for either war.  And don't forget, Trump was for both wars (as were most Americans) when they were first launched.  So please save me the revisionist bullshit. 

You've got to be kidding me.  So they were done with the lies and they voted in a man who lies with every second sentence he utters?  Come on.

If that's all that matters to Americans, then they are done as a nation.  It means the values and principles no longer matter so long as meat is cheap and they have a pay cheque that just covers expenses.  It's not a country that's long for this world if the norms and traditions that both parties had adhered to and respected until Trump came along are done.  Might as well turn to an autocratic despot at this point if the constitution no longer means anything.

Again, utter rubbish.  She's doing what she's obligated to do as is noted in the Constitution.  Congress is meant to check the Executive branch and vice versa.  Failure to uphold her responsibility is a failure to the duty she swore when she became a sitting representative.  If the Democrats were hell-bent on impeaching Trump they would have done it a long time ago.  You honestly think it's wise for them go down this path right before the primary season starts?  If you truly understood what Trump did and why it's so serious, you'd understand why Democrats had no choice.  

 

Which is why I'm not a fan or either, but for different reasons.  Trump because he represents the worst of America and isn't qualified to run a coffee shop, let alone the White House.  Sanders because he peddles fantasies that will never become law.  The system was not designed for revolution or vast and dramatic changes.  Anyone who studied the founding fathers and their reservations of monarchy rule knows why the devised a system that is suppose to be slow and cumbersome.  Sanders promotes policies that will never be accepted or passed overnight.  America has almost always been a nation of incrementalism because it's all the system will allow.  

Yes, it's not limited to America.  But America certainly shines bright in the dumbest political outcomes category (Britain a close second).  There are system and international challenges to global events, particularly in trade and growing inequality.  What people like Trump, Johnson, Le Pen, Bolsonaro and other populists peddle are easy solutions to complex problems.  Blame immigrants and elites for your problems.  Get rid of both and life will be great again.  The truth is globalization isn't going anywhere.  Some countries like South Korea, China, Germany, Norway, Sweden and to a certain extent Canada realize the way forward is through hard work and investing in your citizens while also accepting the best and brightest to study and work in your countries.  It's not building walls, blaming immigrants, and blowing smoke up voters asses that most right-wing populists have done to gain political power.  

 

You are not understanding the point I am trying to make. You are coming at this from an Academic/Foreign point view, not  a  generic  American point of view which is exactly why the establishment lost

I did not say Obama was for the war he was not even in the Senate when the vote happened.   I said he did not take drastic steps to end it completely and drone strikes increased significantly as did the funding for the opposition groups. 

Clinton voted for the war and that's a fact. She tried changing her position but would have continued it if she won

Travel through the rust belt states and see the damage that Washington DC  has caused for the past 60 years. Maybe you will understand then. This what I am trying to get through you

 

Trump is absolutely not qualified to be President. AND THAT'S WHY THEY VOTED FOR HIM! They would rather a complete outsider with no experience in government  destroy the political status quo then someone like Hillary or Joe continue the same old same old because they are the system.

Americans have wanted change for a long time. They were promised hope and change in 2008 and got zilch. 
 

This is the greatest test Americans have faced. American will survive and either re-elect Trump or elect someone on the Left

You are right when you say its easy solutions to complex problems. But people want change now

As for international respect. I can tell you with 100% certainty most people living in Middle America don’t give a shit if X Country Respects us and if they believe Trump is a complete Buffon.

 They are tired of being the world's babysitter and want them to handle their own citizens' problems point is. They want to be able to put food on the table and pay bills.

As for Impeachment. If you honestly believe that the squad is not holding Pelosi hostage and forced her hands and will not hurt her in 2020 come back to me next year.

Most people have tuned out. They don’t care if Trump allegedly solicited info on Biden. They want to know if they will be able to keep their home.

Also, China is not the best example to put that considering the stranglehold on media, free speech and the protests in hong kong 

 When voters go to the polls in 2020 they will ask themselves this

1. Am I better off then I was 4 years ago?

2. Am I going to have a safe and productive life?

3. Have I been able to pay my bills?

4. What will the next person do for me?

Trump and Ukraine will be the last on their minds and only maters to those who hate trump on the left or those who hate trump in the political machine

If Trump loses in 2020 I will gladly admit I was wrong  

Trump and Bernie Sanders are a product of a populist revolt that started in 2008 and will not go away unless Washington Changes  its status quo

Edited by Gibsonfender2323

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37 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

 

Yepp, these are the types of people in charge of our foreign policy. Everyone should be very frightened what these maniacs might do.

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