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downzy

US Politics/Elections Thread

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Isolationists speak against acting in the affairs of other countries. But the ideology is not at odds with a countries self defence. Even if that self defence takes place elsewhere, it would still be within the defending countries affairs. 

Interventionists of course make the absurd claim tht all US militarism is in some manner defensive but thats hog wash.

So the isolationist purity test would be 'was the US still under attack by Al Qaeda in 2015?' An isolationist would naturally question Obombers interventionism and seek to refocus his militarism on defence instead of small 'e' empire maintenance.

It doesn't matter my little thoughts on if US was still under attack. It only matters if the isolationist believed they were. If they did then her tweet is not at odds with her isolationist perspective.

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Just now, TheSeeker said:

I'll do you a solid - I won't post in this thread anymore

Toodles

Do whatever you want.  But if you're going to post here, be prepared to have half baked posts scrutinized by other posters.  

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29 minutes ago, downzy said:

There's way more to it than just Russia's support of Iran.  There is their military incursions amongst their eastern European neighbours, most particularly Ukraine and its annexation of Crimea.  Then there's also the matters of targeted political assassinations both at home and abroad, along with their efforts to undermine and sway elections in most western developed nations.  

Again, if you look at the brief summary I included, it's not just that she defends Syria and Assad, but that she openly criticized Obama for not bombing Syria and yet clings to isolationist bonafides.  It appears she's happy to toe the Russian foreign interests within certain regions regardless of whether she's an active asset or not.

As opposed to the bad information you usually spew in this thread.  

Well to be fair Tulsi, based on that tweet, wanted Obama to just bomb ISIS, not to support 'moderate rebels.' 

So Russia tries to influence it's neighbors? That's not a reason to make them our mortal enemy. And do I need to remind people of all the times the US has tried to influence or done or tried outright coups to it's hemisphere and beyond? That's been part of the game, like it or not, that both sides have played. I still contend the big reason for Russia hysteria has to do with who they have chosen to align themselves to in the Middle East. 

Edited by Basic_GnR_Fan

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1 minute ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

So Russia tries to influence it's neighbors?

No, that's not what I said.  It's not about Russia influencing its neighbours, but using overt military action and indirect military support across state lines to undermine foreign governments.  Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya.  

And you're ignoring their efforts to involve themselves in the elections of others (Brexit, Netherlands, France, Germany, U.S., etc.).  

Yes, Americans are no saints when it comes to that fact.  America in the 1950s and 1960s were as bad if not worse than how Russia currently involves itself in the electoral affairs of other nations.  But the last twenty to thirty years have seen a noticeable sea change in who America "supports" versus Russian actions.  Generally, though with exceptions (particularly Haiti under the Trump administration) have made efforts to support parties and political figures that support non-authoritarian figures who oppose dictators and seek to promote democracy.  Russia, on the other hand, has a recent history of shoring up support for populist factions and autocratic rulers.  

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30 minutes ago, downzy said:

No, that's not what I said.  It's not about Russia influencing its neighbours, but using overt military action and indirect military support across state lines to undermine foreign governments.  Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya.  

And you're ignoring their efforts to involve themselves in the elections of others (Brexit, Netherlands, France, Germany, U.S., etc.).  

Yes, Americans are no saints when it comes to that fact.  America in the 1950s and 1960s were as bad if not worse than how Russia currently involves itself in the electoral affairs of other nations.  But the last twenty to thirty years have seen a noticeable sea change in who America "supports" versus Russian actions.  Generally, though with exceptions (particularly Haiti under the Trump administration) have made efforts to support parties and political figures that support non-authoritarian figures who oppose dictators and seek to promote democracy.  Russia, on the other hand, has a recent history of shoring up support for populist factions and autocratic rulers.  

You have rose colored glasses on in regards to the last few decades of US foreign policy. The US has thrown multiple middle eastern nations into chaos by taking down said dictators. Was any of this really good for the region or for the world at large? Or are other nefarious geostrategic plans at play, I would say they are. In the middle east, the US is following the playbook set out by Oded Yinon and then the Project for a New American Century (zionist) groups. 

And in our own hemisphere let's not forget that Venezuelan crap they tried to pull last year.

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Another day of the Trump trial saying the same shit over and over again. WTF? If they have all this evidence, shouldn't the trial begin already? This is so damn stupid and I'm missing my soaps!

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3 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Another day of the Trump trial saying the same shit over and over again. WTF? If they have all this evidence, shouldn't the trial begin already? This is so damn stupid and I'm missing my soaps!

Your soaps are shit. You should be pleased. :lol: 

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1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

You have rose colored glasses on in regards to the last few decades of US foreign policy. The US has thrown multiple middle eastern nations into chaos by taking down said dictators. Was any of this really good for the region or for the world at large? Or are other nefarious geostrategic plans at play, I would say they are. In the middle east, the US is following the playbook set out by Oded Yinon and then the Project for a New American Century (zionist) groups. 

And in our own hemisphere let's not forget that Venezuelan crap they tried to pull last year.

I won't defend Bush's Iraq war, but that's not really within the same conversation relating to what we're talking about meddling in foreign elections in the last twenty to thirty years.  

Sorry, you'll have to explain to me how the U.S. attempted to undermine what was already a sham election to ensure Maduro's "victory."  The man used the nation's literal hunger as leverage to buy votes.  While I'm certainly no supporter of Trump, any effort to rid Venzuela of Maduro for the benefit of the people of Venezuela is nothing to criticize.  

1 hour ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Another day of the Trump trial saying the same shit over and over again. WTF? If they have all this evidence, shouldn't the trial begin already? This is so damn stupid and I'm missing my soaps!

The trial has started.  They are presenting evidence.  

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9 minutes ago, downzy said:

I won't defend Bush's Iraq war, but that's not really within the same conversation relating to what we're talking about meddling in foreign elections in the last twenty to thirty years.  

Sorry, you'll have to explain to me how the U.S. attempted to undermine what was already a sham election to ensure Maduro's "victory."  The man used the nation's literal hunger as leverage to buy votes.  While I'm certainly no supporter of Trump, any effort to rid Venzuela of Maduro for the benefit of the people of Venezuela is nothing to criticize.  

You mean to install a guy that had even less popular support? Again, I look to geostrategic interests and who will play ball with what, not that any of this is done for moral reasons.

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19 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

You mean to install a guy that had even less popular support? Again, I look to geostrategic interests and who will play ball with what, not that any of this is done for moral reasons.

Do you have anything to support your claim that Maduro has more support than Juan Guaidó?

Most of the polling I've seen shows the opposite. 

Maduro clings to power because he retains support of the military.  

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40 minutes ago, downzy said:

Do you have anything to support your claim that Maduro has more support than Juan Guaidó?

Most of the polling I've seen shows the opposite. 

Maduro clings to power because he retains support of the military.  

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article238040219.html

His support fell to Maduro's level. And as an outsider that's a disaster because you have no power and can just rail against the guy in power. Let's dispel the myth that the US was in this for moral reasons.

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51 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article238040219.html

His support fell to Maduro's level. And as an outsider that's a disaster because you have no power and can just rail against the guy in power. Let's dispel the myth that the US was in this for moral reasons.

Your dates don't line up.  You first claimed America intervened in the 2018 election, which was your original timeline of criticism.  This poll was taken over a year later, and largely a representation of the fallout regarding opposition legislators being investigated for corruption.  

Moreover, as per the article, "87 percent of those surveyed said they wanted Maduro and his allies, or chavistas, out of office."

Moral and strategic can often coincide.  

Or do you think other nations should just not pick a side while autocratic leaders starve their own people?  

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How about the US economic warfare against Venezuela? The Lima group? Hello??

I mean, do I have to frame the argument on behalf of both of you?! :P:lol:

 

 

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14 hours ago, soon said:

How about the US economic warfare against Venezuela? The Lima group? Hello??

I mean, do I have to frame the argument on behalf of both of you?! :P:lol:

 

 

Well he can say bad autocratic man is starving his own people without regards to the economic warfare and sanctions imposed from the US. Case in point, Iraq in the 90's, here's the sadistic Madeline Albright commenting on that:

 

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"The United States aids Ukraine and her people so that they can fight Russia over there, and we don’t have to fight Russia here" - Adam Schiff

How long are we going to allow statements like this to continue?.....I guess its already too late.

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27 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Well he can say bad autocratic man is starving his own people without regards to the economic warfare and sanctions imposed from the US. Case in point, Iraq in the 90's, here's the sadistic Madeline Albright commenting on that:

 

That turned my stomach. The truth of the USA is so vulgar. I suppose thats why so many (just speaking in general) prefer the lie. 

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23 hours ago, Dazey said:

Your soaps are shit. You should be pleased. :lol: 

No they are not! I have been watching GH for a long time and so has my mom. It's one of the best soaps around today.

We need to have something that takes our minds off the horrors of our world.

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Mark Hammill was on GH. He's Luke F'n Skywalker!!! It must be the best soap ever :headbang:

(Unless Rian Johnson wrote and directed GH :lol:)

Q6OExtAh.jpg

Edited by soon

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14 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

No they are not! I have been watching GH for a long time and so has my mom. It's one of the best soaps around today.

That's a bit like saying herpes is one of the best STDs. They're all shit but if you're going to catch any then at least it's not AIDS. :lol: 

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Tulsi is looking hot af in that new vid!!

Bernie dominating New Hampshire polls.

Its a good day.

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What is this about the Prince of Wales snubbing some chap called Pence at an event?

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It appears Greenwald, an American who could easily escape the Brazilian regime and return to USA, is planning to stay in Brazil and continue his journalism. Like the fucking bad ass he is :headbang:

**************

Intercept and Glenn Greenwald's statements on Bolsonaro's attack on the free press

Read Glenn Greenwald’s full statement:

The Bolsonaro government and the movement that supports it has made repeatedly clear that it does not believe in basic press freedoms — from Bolsonaro’s threats against Folha to his attacks on journalists that have incited violence to Sergio Moro’s threats from the start to classify us as “allies of the hackers” for revealing his corruption.

Less than two months ago, the Federal Police, examining all the same evidence cited by the Public Ministry, stated explicitly that not only have I never committed any crime but that I exercised extreme caution as a journalist never even to get close to any participation. Even the Federal Police under Minister Moro’s command said what is clear to any rational person: I did nothing more than do my job as a journalist — ethically and within the law.

This accusation — brought by the same prosecutor who just tried and failed to criminally prosecute the head of the Brazilian Bar Association for criticizing Minister Moro — is an obvious attempt to attack a free press in retaliation for the revelations we reported about Minister Moro and the Bolsonaro government. It is also on an attack on the Brazilian Supreme Court, which ruled in July that I am entitled to have my press freedom protected in response to other retaliatory attacks from Minister Moro, and even an attack on the findings of the Federal Police, which concluded explicitly after a comprehensive investigation that I committed no crimes and solely acted as a journalist.

We will not be intimidated by these tyrannical attempts to silence journalists. I am working right now on new reporting and will continue to do so. Many courageous Brazilians sacrificed their liberty and even life for Brazilian democracy and against repression, and I feel an obligation to continue their noble work.

https://theintercept.com/2020/01/21/glenn-greenwald-brazil-denunciation/

Edited by soon
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8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

What is this about the Prince of Wales snubbing some chap called Pence at an event?

He has a right to do what he wants.  But there could be consequences to his actions.  
 

But then again, I admire his rebelliousness.

 

:slash:

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Iranian-Canadian truck driver refused entry into US because he shares the very common last name, Soleimani, with the assassinated Iranian General. He was then issued a lifetime ban which threatens his livelihood.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.5436112/canadian-truck-driver-who-shares-last-name-with-iranian-general-says-he-can-t-cross-u-s-border-1.5438078

And his plight comes as no surprise as a US border agent says that they were instructed to target those of Iranian descent.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/u-s-border-peach-arch-crossing-iranian-travellers-cbp-1.5436384

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This threads residents socons might be interested in the Conservative Party Canada leadership race. @Silent Jay @Basic_GnR_Fan

They just lost an election to a black face clown in part because their rather moderate leader at the time couldnt look in a camera and affirm that he was fine with gays (also he's boing af). So thats the tone of the electorate here. But the socons arent having it, as you can imagine. And meanwhile their dark over lord Stephen Harper has forced the most progressive voices out of the leadership race. Clearly looking for that sweet spot.

Throw into the mix that fiscons are in a quandary with more of those types acknowledging that there is a climate crisis that needs address (some of whom voted for the Liberal Prime Minstrel initially but have been disillusioned since). But the climate crisis costs money, so they are basically sidelined.

meow meow meow, What Im trying to say is its kinda interesting and is also peripherally related to the Trump Effect.

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