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downzy

US Politics/Elections Thread

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58 minutes ago, downzy said:

They’re not though. 

Satire uses humour to make a comment on the absurdity of that which it targets.

Trolling uses derisive "humour" for the sole purpose of antagonizing the target and validating the troll.  

They're both forms of mockery. Yes some trolls are just trying to get a rise out of people and be a pain, but some people that are being labeled trolls are just using satire like SNL would, they just don't have the platform to do so, so they have to do it on Twitter.

I see troll as an epithet that some people are using because they want to shut down a conversion they don't want to have.

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Krystal and Saagar can be reporting on the saddest shit and yet Im always left with such enthusiasm about our broad, powerful and mainstreamed movement(s) that I just wanna go binge watch all the most 'warm and fuzzy' episodes of West Wing. :lol:

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18 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

They're both forms of mockery. Yes some trolls are just trying to get a rise out of people and be a pain, but some people that are being labeled trolls are just using satire like SNL would, they just don't have the platform to do so, so they have to do it on Twitter.

I see troll as an epithet that some people are using because they want to shut down a conversion they don't want to have.

Except I find that many Sanders supporters aren't actually interested in having a discussion.  They only want to disparage and antagonize supporters of other candidates who pose a threat to Sanders.  And as I reiterated, this is more often than not directed towards female candidates.

Again, I'm not saying that all Sanders supporters are Bernie Bros, but there's certainly a faction within the Sanders camp that clearly fall into that category.

If someone is using humour to make a point or comment, then fine.  But that's not who I'm talking about here.  

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

Except I find that many Sanders supporters aren't actually interested in having a discussion.  They only want to disparage and antagonize supporters of other candidates who pose a threat to Sanders.

No candidate is a threat to Sanders - that's why liberals like yourself are desperately grasping at....anything...to try and take him down

Take the L

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25 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

No candidate is a threat to Sanders - that's why liberals like yourself are desperately grasping at....anything...to try and take him down

Take the L

Lol, desperate.  Sanders has been given the same opportunities as every other candidate.

Part of me wants him to be the nominee just to see what his supporters will say (or who they will blame) if or when he loses to Trump. If he does win then I’ll happy to be wrong as it means Trump is limited to four years of misery instead of eight.  Either way I’m good with Sanders being the nominee, other than i think he’ll do more harm than good for the progressive causes he champions in the long run.   

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It's just a shame whenever they have a debate, all the Democrats do is turn on each other and yell and air their dirty laundry.

What are any of you going to do to make America better and take care of all the real problems?

It's just getting so stupid and doesn't seem to be stopping. Such a shame.

If Trump gets elected again, I don't want to hear anyone bitching and moaning on The View anymore.

Get some good candidates who can beat Trump and help out all Americans.

8 minutes ago, downzy said:

Lol, desperate.  Sanders has been given the same opportunities as every other candidate.

Part of me wants him to be the nominee just to see what his supporters will say (or who they will blame) if or when he loses to Trump. If he does win then I’ll happy to be wrong as it means Trump is limited to four years of misery instead of eight.  Either way I’m good with Sanders being the nominee, other than i think he’ll do more harm than good for the progressive causes he champions in the long run.   

Honestly, Bernie doesn't have such bad ideas, but the guy is 78 years old and already one heart attack. I'd be afraid he wouldn't last long in office. I think alot of Americans feel the same way.

I would love to see the young gay candidate win. that would be so awesome!

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2 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Get some good candidates who can beat Trump and help out all Americans.

The problem isn’t the candidates. 

The problem is the fact that anyone other than Trump’s family members would actually vote for Donald over literally any other person in the country.

Every candidate for the Democratic nomination is lightyears better and more qualified than Trump to be President. The fact he stands a chance of winning says more about America than it does the candidates. 

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2 hours ago, downzy said:

Every candidate for the Democratic nomination is lightyears better and more qualified than Trump to be President. The fact he stands a chance of winning says more about America than it does the candidates. 

Wow. So you're basically saying Americans are stupid, racist idiots.

1. Give America 2 Poor choices (in 2016) and Trump wins.

2. America actually finds out Trump does what he promises = re-election.

Economy is way up! Unemployment is down. These are facts, no opinion. America swings like a pendulum, to the right then to the left. Because neither way is perfect. You struggle against conservatism, because we fight for the lives of unborn children, traditional marriage between a man and a woman, Helping Americans get jobs and not welfare, securing our border and enforcing our own laws. That's just the way it is under republican rule. You WILL have to endure 4 more years of Trump. Then I will have to endure many years of Democrat rule. That's politics. Just as long as I don't marry a dude, murder my children or pretend to be a woman. I'll be just fine.

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26 minutes ago, 31illusions said:

Wow. So you're basically saying Americans are stupid, racist idiots.

No.  I said enough Americans are dumb enough to think Trump is worthy of being President that the entire country gets judged accordingly.  

27 minutes ago, 31illusions said:

1. Give America 2 Poor choices (in 2016) and Trump wins.

It wasn't two pour choices.  It was a bad choice and a shit, you have to be fucking joking, choice.  

28 minutes ago, 31illusions said:

Economy is way up! Unemployment is down. These are facts, no opinion.

And what exactly did Trump do to deserve credit for either?  The only substantial legislative achievement under his Presidency is the 2017 tax cuts, and it has not delivered on any real uptick on business investment or wages for workers (link).  We also see companies holding cash like it's a recession despite low interest rates and lower business taxes (link).  Never mind the fact that unemployment trends have remained unchanged since 2012, with the employment states continuing where they left off at the end of Obama's second term.  

Maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm reading this graph incorrectly, but I see no course correction in employment once Trump took office:

9c607f67-69df-4031-9098-0640013b934b.png

42 minutes ago, 31illusions said:

America swings like a pendulum, to the right then to the left. Because neither way is perfect

Support of Trump speaks nothing about political ideology.  It speaks to a herd mentality of people who care not about the long-term effects of having a corrupt conman as President.  I might have disagreed with Mitt Romney on policy, but I never questioned whether he would use the power of the state to enrich himself and undermine the norms, traditions, and laws of executive governance.

 

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I'll tell you how Democrats lose this thing: Being preoccupied with Russia. It's enough already. 

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23 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

I'll tell you how Democrats lose this thing: Being preoccupied with Russia. It's enough already. 

I agree, though there's many ways they can lose it. 

If they run the same playbook they ran in 2018 I think their odds of booting Trump are good.  That's the problem with Sanders at the top of the ticket.  The more progressive candidates in the 2018 mid-terms generally lost while the moderates won in districts that hadn't gone Democratic in years.  

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Man, Trump should just pardon Roger Stone already.

Everyone knows he’s going to do it.

It’s such a waste of time and attention to bother with appeals and a retrial. Stone’s legal team asking for the judge’s removal is just fodder for Trump to issue a pardon.

Corruption in plain view. 

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Who else thinks that Warren and Klobuchar should call it a day?

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Bernie won Nevada. Here is his victory speech.

 

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https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/

67 percent of those who support Medicare of All think they'll be able to keep their current private health insurance.

If a President Sanders were to somehow implement Medicare for All, private medical insurance is done.  

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29 minutes ago, downzy said:

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/

67 percent of those who support Medicare of All think they'll be able to keep their current private health insurance.

That poll was done 14 months ago

33 minutes ago, downzy said:

If a President Sanders were to somehow implement Medicare for All, private medical insurance is done.  

Thank God

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20 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

That poll was done 14 months ago

Do you think the numbers have changed at all?  

21 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

Thank God

You're missing the point. 

It could potentially a huge liability in the general election if voters learn that Medicare for All means the elimination of their health insurance that they would prefer to keep.  

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3 minutes ago, downzy said:

It could potentially a huge liability in the general election if voters learn that Medicare for All means the elimination of their health insurance that they would prefer to keep.  

Maybe you should wait until after coronavirus spreads and bankrupts millions of people with ICU stays to poll them on how much they "love" their private health insurance

Oh wait - they're not going to go to the hospital to get checked out because they can't afford it, and the virus will spread even faster

This is the world downzy wants

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3 hours ago, downzy said:

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/

67 percent of those who support Medicare of All think they'll be able to keep their current private health insurance.

If a President Sanders were to somehow implement Medicare for All, private medical insurance is done.  

I'm not so sure private insurance is done with Medicare for All. There is something called free enterprise. Sanders could try to get rid of private insurance. But the insurance companies and citizens can go to court

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3 minutes ago, Padme said:

I'm not so sure private insurance is done with Medicare for All. There is something called free enterprise. Sanders could try to get rid of private insurance. But the insurance companies and citizens can go to court

It’s done as it exists today because the federal government would tax income to pay for a medicare for all program. Funds the federal government provides to states and companies to subsidize private, employer based insurance would also be eliminated to pay for public health insurance.

In other words, private insurance would still exist, but it would no longer serve most Americans since the tax incentives for companies and individuals to buy private insurance would be gone. It would also compete with public insurance that people would pay through automatic deductions from their incomes, akin to what already happens with unemployment insurance and social security.

Private insurance would likely cover supplemental medical costs that the public system does not (dental, eyewear, physiotherapy, etc).

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