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US Politics/Elections Thread

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5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

This is part of the problem that happens when you start banning old comedies and films and trashing people's cities. If there is a genuine grievance there such as police brutality and specific incidents of racism, well that has been all bollocksed up, hasn't it? It is the same with women's rights which went from genuine concerns about sexual/violence committed by powerful men to a farce of celebrity virtue signaling*.

I can think of no better way, for instance, than to lose the ''general non-racist mostly apolitical centrist 'Joe public' (to use an American term) British public'' than to target their old comedies and Churchill haha. You are really going for the jugular there, aren't you? Attacking Winston and Only Fools in Britain!! Fuck me: you lot truly want your movement to fail, don't you?

*And the Ghostbusters remake haha.

Why are you talking about banning movies in a thread about the Black Lives Matter campaign in the USA? Are you again not able to separate your twitter feed from mygnrforum? I have never said anything supportive about banning movies. Try to focus. 

And since you repeat your argument that the vandalism somehow negates the movement, I will just repeat my reply that you are imbalanced in your sole attention to vandalism and close your eye to the vast majority that is peaceful and non-violent. That's what you get when your news comes from right-wing tabloids and twitter feeds - from other people who also don't want racial equality. 

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No, Axl is the genuine Mickey

 

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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Why are you talking about banning movies in a thread about the Black Lives Matter campaign in the USA? Are you again not able to separate your twitter feed from mygnrforum? I have never said anything supportive about banning movies. Try to focus. 

And since you repeat your argument that the vandalism somehow negates the movement, I will just repeat my reply that you are imbalanced in your sole attention to vandalism and close your eye to the vast majority that is peaceful and non-violent. 

Well it was Dazey's little bingo which instigated my reply and not anything from an American aspect. You are shooting the messenger. And it was a facetious exchange irrespective - I cannot be bothered with your nonsense this evening.

6 minutes ago, soon said:

No, Axl is the genuine Mickey

 

He is the second most hypocritical man alive, Rose.

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49 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Bernard Hopkins is a muslim :lol: 

I knew you two had more in common than just bumming skinny little white boys in the shower. :lol: 

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FMiiVrD.png 

:lol: 

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Just now, Dazey said:

:lol: 

Forgot to mention the only reason he went to the game was so he could walk out.

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Just now, -W.A.R- said:

Forgot to mention the only reason he went to the game was so he could walk out.

Paid for with taxpayer's money no less.

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32 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Paid for with taxpayer's money no less.

Not your tax dollars.  Why would you care?

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5 minutes ago, Swampfox said:

Not your tax dollars.  Why would you care?

Not caring about things that don't affect you is why we're in this mess in the first place. ;) 

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4 minutes ago, Swampfox said:

Not your tax dollars.  Why would you care?

I often wonder about why so many non-Americans care so much about these particulars myself to such a passionate degree. It must be an online thing as there are none like this where I live. Nobody gives a monkeys about ''Trump'' or ''Biden'' or any of this stuff where I live; it is a foreign language here despite the BBC trying to ram it down our throats.  

It is a strange sort of obsession. Yes, it is certain that some of the fiercest critics of current United States politics are the ones least affected by United States politics! And I never see a similar passion directed at say France (the Yellow Jackets movement) or - pick any random country which you are not a citizen of. It is only ever the United States. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I often wonder about why so many non-Americans care so much about these particulars myself to such a passionate degree. It must be an online thing as there are none like this where I live. Nobody gives a monkeys about ''Trump'' or ''Biden'' or any of this stuff where I live; it is a foreign language here despite the BBC trying to ram it down our throats.  

Just because nobody in Buttfuck, Geordieland has a clue what goes on in the next village it doesn't mean everybody in the country has to be completely ignorant. :lol: 

Edited by Dazey

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Just now, Dazey said:

Just because nobody in Buttfuck, Geordieland has a clue what goes on in the next village it doesn't mean all of us are completely ignorant. :lol: 

I think it is more that Buttfuck, Geordieland, wherever that might be, are intelligent enough to realise that they do not belong to the United States and do not possess President Trump as their head of state, and therefore see more use in debating politics which are pertinent than politics which are not pertinent to their daily lives.

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

I think it is more that Buttfuck, Geordieland, wherever that might be, are intelligent enough to realise that they do not belong to the United States and do not possess President Trump as their head of state, and therefore see more use in debating politics which are pertinent than politics which are not pertinent to their daily lives.

Or maybe it's possible to do both. Hence the UK politics thread.

I personally don't see how taking an interest in US politics is a waste of time, especially given the current situation and the fact that both my wife and daughter are American citizens.

You can deny it all you want but it's a fact that whenever the chimp in the White House has a brainfart we all have to smell it.

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Or maybe it's possible to do both. Hence the UK politics thread.

I personally don't see how taking an interest in US politics is a waste of time, especially given the current situation and the fact that both my wife and daughter are American citizens.

You can deny it all you want but it's a fact that whenever the chimp in the White House has a brainfart we all have to smell it.

Same old Dazey.

 

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Posted (edited)
Quote

the american constitution speaks of defence against oppressive government, but is part (it's actually much more than a part, its the very basis) of the justice system that is supposedly failing. if we agree that the justice system is rotten, then so is the very legal basis on which it is founded.

This could be argued, I was just pointing out that even from the perspective of the establishment that is being attacked here the motives can be understood, they are not entirely alien.

Quote

I just learned that the head of the minneapolis police force is black. would this be thinkable in a system that is inherently racist? Conflicting information is getting to me. The offending police officer responsible for the death of the victim, is a racist. but if "the government" was at fault, as a whole, then they wouldn't have a black head of police. 

This leads us into an semantic argument about the use of the word 'inherent' and its viability here, which is unnecessary, all that needs to be understood is that it is racist enough and prejudiced enough to where there is an on-going murder of black people on the street and this is an injustice.  Whether it is institutionally racist in the way it was in the 1930s or a milder form which requires a lower tier definition, there is still the over-arching injustice there that is the crux of the issue.

Quote

We need to bring a clear message to the masses: "all lives matter", it's really as simple as that. No "but's" and "if's". We need to stomp this idea in the heads of the people, make it as clear as possible with absolutely no caveats or hidden meanings. No, the message should be totally and utterly buried in the slogan. "black lives matter, (so that all lives can matter equally)" is far too complex and can be perfectly worded with "all lives matter". it may seem distastefull to black people, but that's a bitter pill to swallow. it has the benefit to be very clear to all people, and it wont provide opportunites for extreme right groups to use the slogan themselves. 

There is nothing theoretically or philosophically wrong with what your proposing here but then you're not and I'm not of the ones getting done in the street here, you and I are not the ones of that specific cultural experience, you and I's ancestors were not floated over to America some 400 or so years ago and enslaved, tortured, murdered, selectively bred, dehumanizing, divorced from their sense of identity and culture and understanding of self, liberated into Jim Crow and share-cropping and what amounted to another form of servitude, subjected to the same prejudices, the murder, the taunting, the beatings, the lynchings, the castratings, we did not just gain our right to be treated as human beings only 60 or 70 years ago (roughly our grandparents generation), its alright you or me sitting here pontificating about how one should respond to that 2 generations later but really and truly we're talking out of our arses, its a unique and specific cultural experience, like any other cultural experience, cannot be fully understood through print or song or cinema or theatre, it is lives, entire lives of flesh and blood people, people we to a point objectify even as we speak, having conversations like this, morally superior middle class 'oh what shall we do about the plight of the poor negro?' conversations.  

After ALL that (and much more, much more than can possibly be encapsulated in a internet post), in 2020, a time where we pride ourselves on democracy and the rights of the individual, so much so that we fly and float across the world imposing it on other nations, often by the sword (or carpet bombing, whichever easiest), if despite ALL this they are still getting killed on the street...then how far have we come, for them?  It may as well be 1930.  Now call that an exaggeration, to a point it is but whats the length and breadth of the counter argument?  OK, you're still dying on the streets but its not AS bad as back then, its another form of indignity, a lesser dehumanizing, well that makes all the fuckin' difference eh?  

And after ALL this, if they're still dying on the pavement in 2020 then they deserve the right to assert that 'Black Lives Matter', because its black lives that this needs saying about right now, sometimes its not about you and yours its about them and theirs and you gotta stop and look beyond yourself and feel something for someone because honestly, I have a pretty well rounded awareness of a great deal of American black nationalist movements, from Marcus Garvey, to the National of Islam to the 5 percenters to the Moorish Science Temple and the Black Panthers and some of it is VERY extreme but I look at it the same way I look at it the same ways jews look at Nazi's, what has been perpetrated, historically, against black Americans if no less than a genocide, one that has taken overt and covert forms, from the initial slave trade, to the on-going oppression of the 20th century, to the government back CIA COINTELPRO active disruption, discrediting, dismantling and destruction of the aforementioned movements, I cannot see how it can be viewed as anything less than an on-going war, especially if its still happening today.  

There is no theory, no philosophy, no tao, no way that black people could adopt right now so extreme that one could look at that history and claim it an unjust response.  So my thinking is stop killing em on the streets, treat em like human beings and be thankful that, throughout this history, the worst you've had is the odd riot and a bunch of placards and, God forbid, a slogan that you find semantically inconsistent.

Edited by Len Cnut

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Just gonna put this out there:

If you say "all lives matter", you're not even remotely trying to understand the real issues at hand. 

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3 hours ago, action said:

I just learned that the head of the minneapolis police force is black. would this be thinkable in a system that is inherently racist?

You literally just used the "I'm not racist*, I have a black friend" argument. :lol:

 

*not saying you're personally racist. ;) 

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I am not really sure how one is supposed to, if one desired, demonstrate one is ''not a racist'' against current lunacy where basically everybody and everything is ''racist'' and should consequentially be pulled down and bulldozed? One could idolize some rapper, wank like a madman to Pam Grier in Coffy and support the Zulus instead of the redcoats in Zulu; one could have black friends, girlfriend/wife and children. One could be a Rastafarian. He could be a fan of the West Indies in test cricket. His favourite Ghostbuster could be Winston. Yet one would still be deemed a ''racist'' if he didn't agree with the present Wokish orthodoxy.

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26 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am not really sure how one is supposed to, if one desired, demonstrate one is ''not a racist'' against current lunacy where basically everybody and everything is ''racist'' and should consequentially be pulled down and bulldozed? One could idolize some rapper, wank like a madman to Pam Grier in Coffy and support the Zulus instead of the redcoats in Zulu; one could have black friends, girlfriend/wife and children. One could be a Rastafarian. He could be a fan of the West Indies in test cricket. His favourite Ghostbuster could be Winston. Yet one would still be deemed a ''racist'' if he didn't agree with the present Wokish orthodoxy.

Ive never had the concern that someone would think Im racist. If you have that anxiety Id trust your body is telling you something.

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1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

Just gonna put this out there:

If you say "all lives matter", you're not even remotely trying to understand the real issues at hand. 

That's why I say: "Black lives matter too" and you have it covered.

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2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I often wonder about why so many non-Americans care so much about these particulars myself to such a passionate degree. It must be an online thing as there are none like this where I live. Nobody gives a monkeys about ''Trump'' or ''Biden'' or any of this stuff where I live; it is a foreign language here despite the BBC trying to ram it down our throats.  

It is a strange sort of obsession. Yes, it is certain that some of the fiercest critics of current United States politics are the ones least affected by United States politics! And I never see a similar passion directed at say France (the Yellow Jackets movement) or - pick any random country which you are not a citizen of. It is only ever the United States. 

It's a strange obsession for sure.  I couldn't care less about which politicians other countries elect as their leaders but I see several regular posters here so obsessed with Trump.  Especially Dazey.  

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Anyone seen the video where George Floyd has no legs or chest tattoos? Many people believe the whole thing is false flag (not me).

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1 minute ago, Coma16 said:

Anyone seen the video where George Floyd has no legs or chest tattoos? Many people believe the whole thing is false flag (not me).

There's also Qanon people, people who think aids was created in a US lab, and people who think there were no planes on 9/11. Pay no attention to these fools. 

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1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

That's why I say: "Black lives matter too" and you have it covered.

I'm not worried about having it covered. I'm worried about ensuring that more people wake up. 

Until the last two weeks or so, I truly had no idea how much complete ignorance was happening. 

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