GNR Women's discussion

[tiutso]

16 minutes ago, Frey said:

Btw, the official statement about Oh My God is a great example of Axl's typical brand of pseudo-intellectual babbling.

Why did the song need an official statement? It sounds weirdly misplaced, like he was asked to make up a generalized summary for an English lit essay. You know, the ones where you need to demonstrate mature vocabulary?

2 minutes ago, SerenityScorp said:

Out of likes

You Guys didnt sleep? Its morning here 

Twenty to 4 am here.

[Frey]

1 minute ago, tiutso said:

Why did the song need an official statement? It sounds weirdly misplaced, like he was asked to make up a generalized summary for an English lit essay. You know, the ones where you need to demonstrate mature vocabulary?

I have no idea. Probably because GNR (and Axl) had been on a hiatus for quite a while and that's the first song they (he) re-appeared with. Or maybe Axl just felt like he had to explain to us mere mortals what the song was about, who knows. But yes, that's exactly what it sounds like.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/axl-speaks-out-19990922

[SerenityScorp]

1 minute ago, tiutso said:

Why did the song need an official statement? It sounds weirdly misplaced, like he was asked to make up a generalized summary for an English lit essay. You know, the ones where you need to demonstrate mature vocabulary?

Twenty to 4 am here.

7:43 in the morning here

 

 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

9 minutes ago, tiutso said:

Why did the song need an official statement? It sounds weirdly misplaced, like he was asked to make up a generalized summary for an English lit essay. You know, the ones where you need to demonstrate mature vocabulary?

Twenty to 4 am here.

I think it's because the song at the time was a massive deal. I was waiting for the record shop to open the day it came out on the End Of Days soundtrack. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by MillionsOfSpiders

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Andy14 said:

I took me a while to see what you'd really written....I kept reading "This is why Axl doesn't marry ME" 

 

Btw. Slash's face says perfectly how I'd feel if Axl was standing close to me  

lol Slash face!!! I won't comment on it because Im gonna get baaaaaaaaanned

and about Sasha! haaaaaah... yes, I think it works both ways!

That is why he doesn't marry her, because she has no class and is a *bliip* *bliiiiiip* showing her ass like that, jeeez go get a room!

And that is why he doesn't marry me either. Because he won't convince me of doing that in public like her, so, lol.... I can never win

35 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Well, all religions kind of believe in the afterlife don't they? Thats what comes with the territory, doesn't it? You be a good person, you get to heaven/nirvana. Most religious people believe in rebirth. Believe in souls. You can't really have religion or spiritualism without that bit unfortunately. 

I'm not remotely religious, but I do believe we all have a soul. So where does that leave me? What's the scientific explanation for a soul? 

I seriously doubt Axl became a monk anyway, we all know he has too many naughty ways for that 

Sorry for rambling on, I should be asleep. 

There is a scientific explanation for the soul but I can't give it to you because I have not studied that subject very well.... YET

Aristotles and Plato talked about it in the old Greece and I think Stephen Hawkins also has books about it. Not sure.

But yeah, I guess the quantum theory is the one that explains it.

 

[tiutso]

Aww, look at them being a team 

[Kira]

7 minutes ago, tiutso said:

 

Aww, look at them being a team 

What a nice Dad!

[MillionsOfSpiders]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

lol Slash face!!! I won't comment on it because Im gonna get baaaaaaaaanned

and about Sasha! haaaaaah... yes, I think it works both ways!

That is why he doesn't marry her, because she has no class and is a *bliip* *bliiiiiip* showing her ass like that, jeeez go get a room!

And that is why he doesn't marry me either. Because he won't convince me of doing that in public like her, so, lol.... I can never win

There is a scientific explanation for the soul but I can't give it to you because I have not studied that subject very well.... YET

Aristotles and Plato talked about it in the old Greece and I think Stephen Hawkins also has books about it. Not sure.

But yeah, I guess the quantum theory is the one that explains it.

 

I've read some of what he says about ghosts and souls, it was ok till he started going on about black holes in space, so I stopped reading what he says 

[Andy14]

39 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Yes. The church Of Axl Rose 

Stripper poles down the aisles and the font will be filled with Stella. 

Thou shalt have no other Axls before me.

Thou shalt not sing other songs than mine.

Thou shalt wear hats seven days a week.

and one for @killuridols

Thou shalt not covet my ass. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Andy14

[Kira]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

And I'm also not really seeing Axl's intelligence in some of the areas claimed here in this thread. Some people mentioned linguistic and verbal intelligence, but I'm really not convinced. Axl might be a little above average in that regard compared to some random Joe on the street, but just look at the way he writes. It's usually a ranting, rambling, barely coherent mess and a grammatical nightmare. I get the impression some people are fooled into thinking he must be really clever by his endless run-on sentences and the big words he likes to use or something.

I believe Axl is very intelligent.  The majority of people who know/knew him well confirm this.  Except maybe that quote from Izzy, but I think that was a sour grapes sentiment at the time.

I agree about his rambling writing style., but I think that is more a symptom of his mental illness.  I know I'm armchair diagnosing, but the racing, rambling thoughts seem totally textbook manic.  It's like he can't fit all of his thoughts into organized sentences. 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

4 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

Thou shalt have no other Axls before me.

Thou shalt not sing other songs than mine.

Thou shalt wear hats seven days a week.

and one for @killuridols

Thou shall not covet my ass. 

LOL

 

[pinkforgirls]

5 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

Thou shalt have no other Axls before me.

Thou shalt not sing other songs than mine.

Thou shalt wear hats seven days a week.

and one for @killuridols

Thou shalt not covet my ass. 

I said this during my Orlando show....

I BELIEVE!

and/or I am a prophet 

[SerenityScorp]

11 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

Thou shalt have no other Axls before me.

Thou shalt not sing other songs than mine.

Thou shalt wear hats seven days a week.

and one for @killuridols

Thou shalt not covet my ass. 

Out of likes! 

 

[SerenityScorp]

 

[stella]

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

Why is there a buddhist monk in a GN'R show? Is Axl back to believing "stuff"?

It's possible the monks came to see the show - one never knows. Or that there was a Buddhist monastery in the area and they visited. I wouldn't take it as a sign that anyone is adhering to Buddhism. Or it could be Richard's faith system.

[stella]

3 hours ago, Lumikki said:

That's a good point, yes. Even the most intelligent people can be affected by mental illnesses/emotional problems which cause them to make seemingly irrational/stupid/crazy decisions.

 

Yes. I don't like to talk about myself too much on this board because it's public and one never knows. But I will say that there's someone in my family with a mental illness. They worked in a hard professional field...and they now have to live with someone else because of their delusions, inability to follow basic hygiene routines and inability to pay bills or carry out other life tasks. They can do chemistry in their head; they can't take showers and think the bus driver's got an agenda against them. They're someone I really have to guard myself around because they get incredibly nasty, as well. Mental illness, emotional trauma and other things that make someone neuro-atypical really influence a lot, and the person's often seeing things from a world view that's totally removed from reality. They are making decisions that make sense to them in their perspective but don't make sense to anyone else. And even if it's being treated, mental illness is notoriously hard to actually treat effectively.

There are all sorts of examples of super-smart people with mental illness or emotional challenges that make decisions that are inconceivable. Sylvia Plath, for instance, or Vincent Van Gogh jump to mind immediately. PTSD, too.

Edited August 15, 2016 by stella

[killuridols]

40 minutes ago, Frey said:

I didn't mean to discredit Axl's achievements. I'm actually pretty impressed by what Axl has done with his life considering where he came from and how high the odds were stacked against him. And I swear I'm not holding Axl's lack of a family or anything against him. What I was talking about was more along the lines of him constantly doing really dumb shit (though that's admittedly gotten a lot better and we haven't heard anything like that recently).

Stuff like renting a luxury apartment in NY for years and never even setting foot in it (that's flushing your money down the toilet. Even if you got as much of it as he does, it's still a dumb (or at best disorganized) thing to do). Stuff like being late for or cancelling concerts for ridiculous reasons, despite knowing all the trouble he's going to get out of doing that. Wasting his time filing pointless lawsuits and fighting ridiculous legal battles. Throwing pianos out of windows or destroying cars. Taking an eternity and wasting 15 mil to record an album. Getting drunk despite knowing it will make him more likely to pull crazy stunts like biting security guards. Hiring and paying people for ridiculous tasks. Having really bad judgement when it comes to the character of the people he surrounds himself with. And I could go on. And on...

As for Duff's writing, I never compared him to the likes of Hemingway, Kafka etc. To do so would be ridiculous. But Duff is a decent writer and he is a downright exceptional writer for a rock musician. Axl's writing is not even exceptional for any random person, except for the fact that it is indeed rather easily recognizable due to how convoluted it is. You may call that unique, yes, but I don't think it's a sign of intelligence.

Yes, I'll admit Axl's mental health is probably to blame to a certain extent for the less than clever decisions he makes.

Yes, in old interviews Axl usually does tend to come across as the most articulate and intelligent one. But how is that a fair comparison when he was also the only clean one? Not to mention also a few years older than Duff and Slash for example. Who knows what Duff and Slash would have sounded like if they had been both clean and the same age as Axl. Also I have to say that Slash at least manages to be quite articulate and intelligent even in a lot of old interviews, especially for guy high on god knows what. And yes, I know, Slash and Duff are both very business savy which is another point in favor of their intelligence as opposed to Axl's. I'm not really buying the "Axl's just a typical artist with no sense for business" thing. Everyone can learn and adhere to a few basic ground rules, and some of the shit Axl has pulled is just insane, even for someone who doesn't have much of a business mind.

Agree with you about Axl being stuck in the past and not moving forward with his life, being surrounded by dumb people etc.

I didn't mean to say Izzy is a better lyricist than Axl (he's written some spectacularly weak lyrics recently), I was talking about them as musicians as a whole. And I don't think that Izzy is less talented than Axl in that regard (and neither is Slash imo). Izzy is a good song writer. He just has a different style than Axl, but I've always loved what he brings to the table for the most part. If we're talking solely about lyrics, than yes, Axl's are probably the best (usually at least...) out of all the guys in the band. But like you yourself said, that doesn't really mean a whole lot when compared to people who are actually great lyricists. I agree that what saves Axl's lyrics is their authenticity and honesty.

Also, isn't Oh My God about his childhood experiences? Despite Axl's official statement about the song, I have it in the back of my head as relating at least in part to his childhood/family. Did he say anything like that in the chats or something?

Btw, the official statement about Oh My God is a great example of Axl's typical brand of pseudo-intellectual babbling. Though still more coherent than other stuff he's written.

"The chorus deals with the societal repression of deep and often agonizing emotions -- some of which may be willingly accepted for one reason or another -- the appropriate expression of which (one that promotes a healing, release and a positive resolve) is often discouraged and many times denied. Emotionally the song contemplates several abstract perspectives drawing from personal expression as well as from the film and its metaphors. The appropriate expression and vehicle for such emotions and concepts is not something taken for granted.[2]

The fight of good vs. evil, positive vs. negative, man against a seemingly undefeatable, undeterrable, unrevealed destiny, along with the personal and universal struggle to attain, maintain and responsibly manage freewill can be and often is frustrating to say the least. In America our country's constitutional right to freedom of expression gives us a better chance to fight for that expression than many in other countries enjoy. It can be a big gig, like kickin' the crap outta the devil!"

Ok, once again highlighting what I want to address... here I go! FIRE!

The things you mention as dumb or poor decisions on his part I don't think they have to do with being intelligent or not. They are mostly related to his mental state, his psychological problems and all the shit we know. Also with being unexperienced, young and naive. Let's be honest here, who has not made a mistake regarding money before? especially when you are making your own and if you earn above the average, it is quite common to not know what to do with all of it in the beginning. Then you learn, if you ever learn. But not everybody comes from a wealthy family or has been taught the importance of having savings, making investments, etc.

In one of those famous Rolling Stone interviews from the 90's that some of the girls posted here before, Axl spoke about what it was like to pass from being poor to being rich and the advice he'd give to people:

Quote

Is there any one lesson you've learned that you wish you knew a few years ago?
What I'd tell any kid in high school is "Take business classes." I don't care what else you're gonna do, if you're gonna do art or anything, take business classes. You can say, "Well, I don't want to get commercial," but if you do anything to make any money, you're doing something commercial. You can be flipping hamburgers at McDonald's, but you're a commercial burger flipper.

Doesn't sound like he is clueless about business. Both Duff and Slash talk in their respective books about not knowing how to deal with the amounts of money they were making from GN'R in the 90's and how they lost a lot of money because they were either being taken advantaged of or were spending too much, etc.

All the other things you mention as crazy, dumb stuff that makes no sense... well, it makes no sense because none of us has that priviledge. We are talking about people who are "rare" in this world and by that I mean, out of the billions of humans that populate this world, how many are as wealthy as the guys in Guns N' Roses? Probably 1% and maybe that's too much...

What I'm trying to say is that I understand where you're coming from when you talk about making poor or dumb decisions about his life, but you also have to take into consideration the context. I think it is quite normal for the rest of the universe who are not priviledge humans like GN'R, to learn as fast as we enter adulthood about how to make a living, keep a job, start savings, buying a house, etc. You are forced to make "intelligent" decisions in your life because there isn't other choice, because we can't afford to throw pianos out the window, or rent a luxury aparment and do not inhabit it; most of us can't afford a life of waste and abundance, so we learn to make smart moves or face the fact of living in the street. On the other hand, you have people like Axl who could do this and do not face serious consequences in his life. The guy will never be poor, that's the truth. No matter how many mistakes or unintelligent decisions he makes about his money, that guy will not end up in the street, unlike me, who as part of the unpriviledged 99% of the population, I WILL end up in the street if I don't make good decisions regarding money, employement, etc. There is no salvation for me, there isn't a choice.

I'd like to know why you say Axl is particulary business unsavy and what is the proof for it? The exccentricities you've mentioned are not proof of him becoming poorer because of them If we give any credit to those Fortune or Forbes statistics people always bring up here, Axl's net worth is of $150 million dollars and Duff and Slash are way below that number, so how come they are supposed to be more business savy than Axl? And finally, how in the hell would any of us know what Axl does with his money? We don't know, we are not his accountants or the bank that keeps his millions, but there are no reports of him going bankrupt either so I think it is safe to assume he's doing pretty fine.

Now, if we want to talk about dumb decisions, how about we talk drugs? alcohol? Were Slash or Duff incredibly intelligent for choosing to be drunk, drugged for most part of their youth? How about Slash marrying Perla? Was that a smart choice? Seriously, if we're gonna talk about Axl's intelligence we shouldn't be mixing intelligence with emotional problems or decision making whatever.. It has nothing to do with that. People are human and humans make mistakes, even Stephen Hawkins and the likes of him.

---------

I didn't say Axl's writting was a sign of his intelligence or above average intelligence (because we all have a degree of intelligence), I said the way he writes demonstrates he's developed an unique style which is a sign of his creativity. Convoluted or whatever you want to call it, it is recognizable out of any other artist style and this fact is what differentiates him from Duff, whose writting shows no signs of uniqueness and it is not recognizable from a pool of similar writers if you were not indicated such writings belonged to him.

---------

Why is the 'Oh My God' statement a typical example of Axl's pseudo-intellectual "babbling"?

Can you please elaborate your conclusion?

 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Kira said:

I believe Axl is very intelligent.  The majority of people who know/knew him well confirm this.  Except maybe that quote from Izzy, but I think that was a sour grapes sentiment at the time.

I agree about his rambling writing style., but I think that is more a symptom of his mental illness.  I know I'm armchair diagnosing, but the racing, rambling thoughts seem totally textbook manic.  It's like he can't fit all of his thoughts into organized sentences. 

It could be a symptom of his mental illness, or not.

Axl is an artist and I believe what you guys call rambling or endless rants is not 'rare' or unknown in the literary field. It is a narrative mode called "stream of consciousness" and it has been used by many famous writers like James Joyce, Proust, Virginia Woolf... casually, these are some of my favorite writers so maybe that's why Axl's style is attractive to me.

I don't think it is useful to mix his art or the way he expresses himself with his emotional problems or psychological problems. I think it is great Axl can transfer his personality or even emotional problems to his art, otherwise we wouldn't have masterpieces like 'Coma' or 'Locomotive'. They are both great examples of this stream of consciousness narrative that is not uncommon in literature.

[tiutso]

Can someone, like, hit me up with a ranting example? I'm really not sure what everyone means by it.

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, tiutso said:

Can someone, like, hit me up with a ranting example? I'm really not sure what everyone means by it.

From Axl?

[tiutso]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

From Axl?

Yea.

[killuridols]

26 minutes ago, tiutso said:

Yea.

umm

I don't have a link at hand but what quickly comes to mind is the letter to the Hall Of Fame, the unhappy post he directed to Madison here and maybe some of his responses from the 2008 chats here too.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

2 hours ago, stella said:

It's possible the monks came to see the show - one never knows. Or that there was a Buddhist monastery in the area and they visited. I wouldn't take it as a sign that anyone is adhering to Buddhism. Or it could be Richard's faith system.

Doesn't Richard have a huge tattoo on his back of Kali? I think that is Hindu, I don't know, they all believe in reincarnation too  I think it all probably means nothing, at the end of the day. 

[Mandy123]

7 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Omg omg omg

I need a better video of this (the Jungle from Seattle) 

Axl's cheating on Slash with Duff 

We all know that while Axl and Slash have their love/hate thing going on, it's Duff they both go home to at night 

[Blackstar]

14 hours ago, Frey said:

Yes, in old interviews Axl usually does tend to come across as the most articulate and intelligent one. But how is that a fair comparison when he was also the only clean one? Not to mention also a few years older than Duff and Slash for example. Who knows what Duff and Slash would have sounded like if they had been both clean and the same age as Axl. Also I have to say that Slash at least manages to be quite articulate and intelligent even in a lot of old interviews, especially for guy high on god knows what. And yes, I know, Slash and Duff are both very business savy which is another point in favor of their intelligence as opposed to Axl's. I'm not really buying the "Axl's just a typical artist with no sense for business" thing. Everyone can learn and adhere to a few basic ground rules, and some of the shit Axl has pulled is just insane, even for someone who doesn't have much of a business mind.

Axl wasn't completely clean until 1989; he occasionally did cocaine. He was also taking meds. And, of course, he smoked a lot of pot. Regardless, Axl didn't need drugs to screw his mind, he was messed up on his own. And yes, Axl did insane things, but he hasn't been exactly "normal", has he? People like that, who are also artists, are the "artistic type", meaning that they are creative and have some types of intelligence, but they don't act "reasonably".

Quote

I didn't mean to say Izzy is a better lyricist than Axl (he's written some spectacularly weak lyrics recently), I was talking about them as musicians as a whole. And I don't think that Izzy is less talented than Axl in that regard (and neither is Slash imo). Izzy is a good song writer. He just has a different style than Axl, but I've always loved what he brings to the table for the most part. If we're talking solely about lyrics, than yes, Axl's are probably the best (usually at least...) out of all the guys in the band. But like you yourself said, that doesn't really mean a whole lot when compared to people who are actually great lyricists. I agree that what saves Axl's lyrics is their authenticity and honesty.

What I wanted to say about the lyrics is that Axl may not be Dylan, Lennon, etc. (no one in his/her right mind would claim that, even Axl's biggest fan), but there are a lot of others (not just Izzy) who he can be compared to for what he does as a rock 'n' roll lyricist. It's like saying that the X band is not The Beatles, but has qualities which make it a good band. And I wouldn't use the word "saves" for authenticity and honesty. It's an important quality for rock 'n' roll. Old blues songs aren't "deep" lyrically, but they are authentic. Rock 'n' roll lyrics don't have to be poetry to be good. Many Led Zeppelin songs, for example, are just hedonistic, The Sex Pistols songs express rage, etc. Anyway, I think that some of Axl's lyrics are great, Locomotive, Breakdown, Don't Damn Me, most of his Appetite stuff in another way, etc. I agree that Izzy is a good songwriter and that Slash is talented. All three are talented but for different reasons each they can't do on their own what they did or what they would do together.

@killuridols, I said that Axl doesn't have a business mind and that Slash and Duff are better at this area, and Frey commented on my post. I'm clarifying that I don't think it's a flaw, especially for someone like Axl. In fact, I kinda like him for this, because I'm romantic about music and I don't want to see it and art in general as business (without disregarding that in capitalist economy art is inevitably a commodity etc.).

This is why (and moreover because it was one of the reasons that the band disintegrated) I consider Axl's big mistake that he decided to see the band firstly as a business and then as a team of people who created and played music. Axl wanted GnR to be like The Rolling Stones, a band that had already a 25 year old career, hence it had reasonably become a business. Thus Doug Goldstein became more important than Izzy; which itself was a bad decision even business wise, because you don't risk losing a partner whose role is important in creating the product you sell (music). Axl wanted to reduce Izzy's royalties because Izzy didn't want to do more than writing songs, while he was spending loads of money on those theme parties and in fines for breaking the curfew due to his lateness. I know it wasn't the only reason why Izzy left, I'm commenting on Axl's choices from both an ethical and a business point of view. The CD story is another example; spending so much money on that album and not even promoting it.

Yes, Axl is very rich because he has sold millions of records (btw, these numbers don't represent what they have in "real" money, but what their assets are worth), but the fact that he can afford to lose money due to wrong choices doesn't mean that he's good at business. But like I said, I kinda like that he isn't although he wanted to be (I also appreciate that for years he refused to give the songs for commercials, even though he eventually did it and played on one). Some of his decisions' results though weren't just insignificant money loss for him.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Blackstar