GNR Women's discussion

[Jane M.]

23 minutes ago, Frey said:

He's used to that. Remember the story of chick who lost her virginity to Izzy that was posted here in this thread? She acted like she knew him to his face and he had no clue who she was. And now she got her 5 minutes of fame in this article too

Now that you remind me of that anecdote I don't feel so bad about my simple weather channel quote. Thank you

I did know about Izzy's parents divorce issue but I don't remember where I read it. It was a long time ago.

#TeamIzzy all the way in case of a zombie apocalypse. Eat your heart out Rick Grimes.

[Frey]

1 hour ago, giuls said:

It makes me so sad that people knew about Axl's family and they did nothing, i know it was the 80's but it's still sad.

Im not surprised at all that they drew skulls  guns n roses, like, they have an aestetich 

OMG, a machine gun, that's actually scary to me, i would be far away from him, okthankyoubye Izzy

The 60s and 70s actually.

Nowadays someone might hopefully get involved, but back then in rural Indiana? Not very likely.

Kind of surprised his teachers knew though (even the art teacher). I figured it might have been a situation where no one would have expected anything like that from the respectable Mr. Bailey, considering that the guy was a preacher and everything.

And it's interesting to hear that Izzy and Axl actually had classes together (apart from the driver's ed classes) and worked with each other on projects. Seems like the thing about them being childhood friends is not as fabricated as some like to claim.

 

43 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

Now that you remind me of that anecdote I don't feel so bad about my simple weather channel quote. Thank you

I did know about Izzy's parents divorce issue but I don't remember where I read it. It was a long time ago.

#TeamIzzy all the way in case of a zombie apocalypse. Eat your heart out Rick Grimes.

You're welcome lol. And hey, at least you didn't end up on AltNation

We could all just hide out at his place, secure the fuck out of it and then spend the rest of the time eating avocados.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2016 by Frey

[Bandanaman]

27 minutes ago, money honey said:

I spotted you in another thread, like the user name... So not a man then? 

Thank you!  and no, not a man!

[Babooshka]

21 minutes ago, Frey said:

And it's interesting to hear that Izzy and Axl actually had classes together (apart from the driver's ed classes) and worked with each other on projects. Seems like the claim about them being childhood friends is not as fabricated as some like to claim.

I'm just sayin, there are older interviews from back then that did not paint this cosy picture. Izzy actually said he was surprised and annoyed that Axl followed him out to LA. But hey, they all now want to write their legacy, I get it.

[Blackstar]

4 hours ago, Frey said:

What did you guys think about the article? I thought it was pretty good, learned some new shit. But it also once again gave me the impression that Izzy's a complicated guy who's just as difficult as Slash or Axl in some ways.

It's a good article, although there is some unfounded speculation in it. I don't get where the "Izzy had lost his veto power" and "he had become a hired hand" bits come from; there's no such evidence (in fact, the 1992 contract hints that Izzy had, technically at least, full partnership rights until he left). But it was a interesting read overall and it has information about Izzy's background in Lafayette that I haven't heard before. I agree that Izzy is more a complex character than just the cool guy who wants everything simple. A thing that I see he has in common with Axl (which is apparent in some of his old interviews) is that he feels that "they are out to get him", but he deals with it in a different way than Axl. I also think that Izzy has had a dichotomy all these years; although he made a choice with leaving the band, he has always wanted to be back, but in his own way.

6 hours ago, giuls said:

What do you think, the plane is only for Axl or for all of them?

Probably for all of them. I don't reckon all the seats in this big thing to be just for Axl, TB, the rest of his entourage and his pets

6 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Didn't Axl have a private jet that he went everywhere in, the same one since 06? I don't know what the range is in those things though. Maybe they can't fly as far as the bigger planes. 

Does he still have the private jet? During the US NITL tour he seemingly traveled either on a regular flight or in a tour bus.

------------

About the shows:

I like UYI shows (I agree about Oklahoma 91 and Chicago 92), but I generally prefer the rawer AFD shows from 1987-88 (e.g. Philadelphia and NY 88 and of course The Ritz 88). Unfortunately for most of those shows there's only audio and a few of them seem to have been even better than The Ritz (in fact Axl and Slash have said that it wasn't among their good shows). Another great one is The Ritz 1991, the one which the Don't Cry video with Shannon Hoon is from. It was one of the warm-up shows for the UYI tour, which were also, as Axl said, his rehearsals (because -what a surprise - he hadn't rehearsed with the band ). But this is the magic about it: a club show that is actually like watching a live rehearsal. They were loose and they were enjoying it (I don't care if Slash was sloppy at times or Axl wasn't perfect). Axl also apparently tried all the outfits he was going to wear during the 1991 tour (including the St. Louis feathered jacket), because he changed costumes about 20 times 

---------

Since there's agreement that this thread doesn't have a topic, I guess it's okay to bring this back from some days ago:

On 18/10/2016 at 4:36 PM, Frey said:

Btw @MillionsOfSpiders I ended up on one of the pages about the Oh My God discussion recently while looking for something else and saw you commenting on how dark that song is lyrically. Which reminded me of these. They're from Erin's auction. Lyrics (or poems) that were never used for any songs. They're pretty dark too.

I've transcribed them below.

The first one reads:

Don't call me sinner
I ain't your saint
Don't want your history
Don't need your fate
Your religion's a joke
Your legend a lie
Give up the ghost
And fucking die

You pollute the airwaves
With your drivelling shit
You cry to the masses
Like a homeless wimp
Sayin' give me your money
An' I'll spread the word
Get a real job! Cause
You lie lke a turd (?)

Tax writeoffs + shelters + such
Funded by the ignorants' bucks
Keep you living on cloud nine
I hope to hell the peace you find
Suffocates your worthless soul
And leaves you rotting in a 6 foot hole

No heaven no hell
Just your family alive
To be devoured by one of your kind!!!

The other one is apparently called Tantrum I and as far as I can make out it goes like this:

Tantrum I

Screaming
Biting
Calling
Fighting
Someone please make it stop
Beating them back to the bushes
God knows they'll come back again
Been through this so many times
My enemeies are friends
You- You want answers
You invite yourself
???? to take
Manipulate
????
?????????????

Release
Oh the pleasure
Makes it so free to forgive
Now try again
And please pretend
You've lived
Where I have been.

(If someone can figure out the missing parts, please share.)

Where are all the lyrics people? @Blackstar @giuls @Lumikki @killuridols and everyone else who likes discussing lyrics. What are everyone's thoughts on these? They come across as a lot darker and more personal to me than most of his lyrics.

I think the first one is about religious whackjobs and frauds in general, but some lines seem to be directed at his stepfather specifically. I think that's the harshest thing Axl's ever said (or rather written) on the topic of religion. He was a lot more reserved about that topic in interviews usually.

Tantrum I (where's Tantrum II? ) is an interesting one as well.

Seems to describe a violent, abusive situation. At first I thought it might be about some fight with a girl (Erin), but lines like "And please pretend / You've lived / Where I have been." and all the talk about forgiveness and manipulation makes it sound like it's about his family as well. Plus the fact that he is talking about "them", plural. Beating them back to the bushes? And they'll come back again? Might be talking about his family, but I'm not really sure. Also could be about other people who are out to get Axl, I guess (real or imaginary).

Very interesting lyrics;  it's a pity they never made it as songs.

The first one is in the same vein as the "most organized religions / make a mockery of humanity" line from Garden of Eden, but it's a lot more blunt. I think these lyrics with some adjustments would go well with the music of One In A Million and it would have been great if Axl had used them instead. They would still have caused controversy and made a fuss, but in a much better and more productive way than OIAM lyrics.

Tantrum I is more unprocessed and raw, but it would be good for a song like Shotgun Blues for example. It could be about his family or about his internal "demons", as @giuls and @Lumikki said. All these interpretations are valid imo.

----------

About Axl's relation with religion:

From stories I know, people who grow up in fundamentalist religious environments, like the one Axl was brought up in, may later develop resentment for the specific religion (and convert to another one) or reject all organized religions or go as far to become agnostics, but they rarely become atheists; it's because this thing is so deeply inside them that, if they discard it completely, it leaves a void that can't be easily filled with something else.

The concept of distinguishing organized religion from belief in the existence of a superior being is not necessarily discrepant; it originates from the Enlightenment (deism). It's also not uncommon for people today to believe in things that are contradictory or incompatible in terms of organized religion, for example there are people who believe in Jesus and at the same time they believe in past lives or astrology. It's because organized religions in the western world (even in traditionally catholic or eastern orthodox societies, where, unlike Protestantism, being a member of the church is as important as faith) tend to be replaced by "individual religions", where each person makes his own personal "religion" by selecting things from different beliefs that he likes and rejects what he doesn't like (somewhat a combination of modern day deism and modern day religious syncretism), in the same way that he chooses product brands or decorates his house with different styles.

The obsession with crucifixes is another story that may or may not be related to the above. Imo it's not necessarily indicative of Axl's beliefs and specifically of a link to Catholicism. Someone can be even an atheist and at the same time be fascinated by the mythology, the symbolism or the cultural aspect of religion (not to mention the use of religious symbols in pop culture). Axl doesn't seem to collect other catholic symbols (madonnas for example) apart from crucifixes - and mostly, if not exclusively, South American crucifixes. Maybe, as @Lumikki pointed out, the messianic aspect is what attracts him (in combination with the artistic style). Crucified Jesus is also, among other things, the ultimate symbol of unjust suffering, so maybe Axl feels related to it because of that.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

Ok,I'm sorry you are all talking about serious topics again but I HAVE TO POST THIS because I've been laughing non-stop since 3 hours ago when I first saw it! 

  

Never seen this pic before and I don't think it is photoshopped but I think this sums up the spirit of this thread 

 

 

Edit: I forgot to tag @Andy14 on this one. She will appreciate if when she's back 

Edited October 24, 2016 by killuridols

[Italian girl]

8 hours ago, Bandanaman said:

Perla's new Instagram post tells me there is going to be some drama. Hope it's not between her, Slash and Meegan. 

 

HER money????

[BOSSY78]

8 hours ago, Frey said:

#itsabouttogetreal ? Wonder what kind of drama Perla's involved with now Hope Slash and her aren't waging some kind of custody battle or something like that.

 

@Jane M. I noticed you got quoted in the Izzy article

What did you guys think about the article? I thought it was pretty good, learned some new shit. But it also once again gave me the impression that Izzy's a complicated guy who's just as difficult as Slash or Axl in some ways.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Seems they all had their "issues".

[BOSSY78]

The story about them making art together reminds me of Axl saying it was Guns n Roses before he met up with Izzy again. I can't remember the exact words. But he's always maintained that was his idea. It's kind of cool to hear a story about it. 

I love avocados lol.

 

On the cross, perhaps it's the Celtic connection or he really likes them. The cross was in use long before Christianity. Of course his upbringing in church may have something to do with it. Who knows. He may be against organized religion but still maintain beliefs. Idk

[SerenityScorp]

His avocado farm could be in Ojai 

Edited October 24, 2016 by SerenityScorp

[SerenityScorp]

 

[SerenityScorp]

On 20/10/2016 at 6:57 AM, beautifulanddamned said:

It's pretty clear that something went down between Izzy and Jimmy Ashurst. Izzy broke that band up very abruptly and Jimmy said this about Izzy in an interview:

"I just don't know if the issues that Izzy and I have with each other will ever be resolved.  In order to make up with someone you have to first be able to speak to them, and to do that you need to first know where the hell they are.  Guys like that can be hard to deal with.  They just don't need you.  He can go on and do whatever it is he's doing just fine without me, and he doesn't seem to realize that sometimes a certain group of individuals, when working together, can create something that's irreplaceable...that can't be done on your own.  He's got the money, and obviously doesn't see what so many people who love him do, and there's nobody in his life who will risk their friendship with him by telling him the truth.  He's always been surrounded by "yes" people, and whenever someone pops up with a dissenting opinion, he can just disappear and replace that person with someone who's more agreeable."
 

Kind of ironic considering what's happening  with the reunion.  It's a shame though, the Ju Ju Hounds were awesome. 

I guess Indiana Boys isnt really tht different after all, except Their personality

[MillionsOfSpiders]

@Blackstar I looked up the private jet, it was just rented. I know they had it in 06 but maybe only for US because when they were here in the U.K. Axl had helicopters take him everywhere. In 2010 he used Michael Owens helicopter, the one that almost collided with another chopper mid air. 

It makes me laugh thinking about it because the British press found it hilarious to report that one of his entourage was seen knitting whilst in the helicopter  

It looks as though they're all going to travel together then  could they possibly use the travel time to pen some new tunes? 

[Frey]

Seems like Slash and Duff are both really excited about going to SA. Good sign imo.

 

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It makes me laugh thinking about it because the British press found it hilarious to report that one of his entourage was seen knitting whilst in the helicopter  

It looks as though they're all going to travel together then  could they possibly use the travel time to pen some new tunes? 

Beta recently posted some of her needlepoint work (? something like that in any case) on Instagram, so it was probably her knitting in the helicopter

And yeah, I wish

 

 

 

[giuls]

10 hours ago, Frey said:

Kind of surprised his teachers knew though (even the art teacher). I figured it might have been a situation where no one would have expected anything like that from the respectable Mr. Bailey, considering that the guy was a preacher and everything.

Well, there's the famous photo of Axl as a kid with a black eye, those kind of thing are difficult to hide and it very rarely happen only once so i'm not shocked they knew.

10 hours ago, Frey said:

And it's interesting to hear that Izzy and Axl actually had classes together (apart from the driver's ed classes) and worked with each other on projects. Seems like the thing about them being childhood friends is not as fabricated as some like to claim.

10 hours ago, Babooshka said:

I'm just sayin, there are older interviews from back then that did not paint this cosy picture. Izzy actually said he was surprised and annoyed that Axl followed him out to LA. But hey, they all now want to write their legacy, I get it.

For what it's worth, another explanation apart from them re-writing history is that, sophomore year the kids are aged 15 or 16, depends on the state, and in two or even 1 year relationship can change and maybe Izzy could have been friendly at 15/16 but not so much when he went to LA (didn't Axl said he actually had to find Izzy, he didn't know where he was, right?)

2 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

@Blackstar I looked up the private jet, it was just rented. I know they had it in 06 but maybe only for US because when they were here in the U.K. Axl had helicopters take him everywhere. In 2010 he used Michael Owens helicopter, the one that almost collided with another chopper mid air. 

It makes me laugh thinking about it because the British press found it hilarious to report that one of his entourage was seen knitting whilst in the helicopter  

It looks as though they're all going to travel together then  could they possibly use the travel time to pen some new tunes? 

I saw Fede's video for a few minutes and the plane is enormous, i didn't really get how big it was from the photos, yes, it's for everyone and i hope they'll write on it too!

[Frey]

9 hours ago, Blackstar said:

@giulsIt's a good article, although there is some unfounded speculation in it. I don't get where the "Izzy had lost his veto power" and "he had become a hired hand" bits come from; there's no such evidence (in fact, the 1992 contract hints that Izzy had, technically at least, full partnership rights until he left). But it was a interesting read overall and it has information about Izzy's background in Lafayette that I haven't heard before. I agree that Izzy is more a complex character than just the cool guy who wants everything simple. A thing that I see he has in common with Axl (which is apparent in some of his old interviews) is that he feels that "they are out to get him", but he deals with it in a different way than Axl. I also think that Izzy has had a dichotomy all these years; although he made a choice with leaving the band, he has always wanted to be back, but in his own way.

I agree. And yes, they're both paranoid fucks.

And it's like Slash said, Izzy's defense mechanism is to bolt. Axl lashes out when threatened, Slash usually becomes passive-aggressive or lies and manipulates his way out of a situation and Izzy just runs away.

I know from experience people like that are insanely exhausting to deal with too. People who are so conflict shy that they avoid any kind of confrontation or attempt to sort things out are frustrating as fuck. They just take off and hope everything will sort itself out in the meantime or will avoid you altogether in the future.

I also think this entire quote that @SerenityScorp posted earlier is hilarious:

"I just don't know if the issues that Izzy and I have with each other will ever be resolved.  In order to make up with someone you have to first be able to speak to them, and to do that you need to first know where the hell they are.  Guys like that can be hard to deal with.  They just don't need you.  He can go on and do whatever it is he's doing just fine without me, and he doesn't seem to realize that sometimes a certain group of individuals, when working together, can create something that's irreplaceable...that can't be done on your own.  He's got the money, and obviously doesn't see what so many people who love him do, and there's nobody in his life who will risk their friendship with him by telling him the truth.  He's always been surrounded by "yes" people, and whenever someone pops up with a dissenting opinion, he can just disappear and replace that person with someone who's more agreeable."

If you didn't know Jimmy Ashhurst was talking about Izzy here, everyone would assume this quote to be about Axl.

I mean that sounds exactly like Axl, the only difference being that Axl doesn't just disappear but usually will cut people out of his life in a more dramatic fashion.

I realize this guy isn't exactly the most reliable source and frankly he comes across like a bit of a moron and weirdly obsessed with Izzy ("I got myself a heroin addiction just so I would know what it's like to be him" Really?!), but still This is just golden.

 

9 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Since there's agreement that this thread doesn't have a topic, I guess it's okay to bring this back from some days ago:

Very interesting lyrics;  it's a pity they never made it as songs.

The first one is in the same vein as the "most organized religions / make a mockery of humanity" line from Garden of Eden, but it's a lot more blunt. I think these lyrics with some adjustments would go well with the music of One In A Million and it would have been great if Axl had used them instead. They would still have caused controversy and made a fuss, but in a much better and more productive way than OIAM lyrics.

Tantrum I is more unprocessed and raw, but it would be good for a song like Shotgun Blues for example. It could be about his family or about his internal "demons", as @giuls and @Lumikki said. All these interpretations are valid imo.

----------

Maybe, as @Lumikki pointed out, the messianic aspect is what attracts him (in combination with the artistic style). Crucified Jesus is also, among other things, the ultimate symbol of unjust suffering, so maybe Axl feels related to it because of that.

Sure, people bring older stuff up all the time As long as it's for a good reason, I don't think anyone minds.

That OIAM idea is great. Man, that would have been so much better and spared them so much drama. OIAM would be looked at positively today if they'd gone with these lyrics.

I kind of like the Tantrum lyrics too. Yeah, they're raw and rough, but I think they show potential.

As for Axl and the crucifixes, yes, I could see it being about the messianic aspect as well. Axl's got a huge persecution complex and is crazy enough to feel like he can realte to Jesus in some way. Maybe Slash nailed him to a cross in a past life too.

 

 

 

[Lumikki]

12 hours ago, Babooshka said:

12 hours ago, Frey said:

And it's interesting to hear that Izzy and Axl actually had classes together (apart from the driver's ed classes) and worked with each other on projects. Seems like the claim about them being childhood friends is not as fabricated as some like to claim.

I'm just sayin, there are older interviews from back then that did not paint this cosy picture. Izzy actually said he was surprised and annoyed that Axl followed him out to LA. But hey, they all now want to write their legacy, I get it.

Izzy said that? I only remember Alan Niven claiming that Izzy whined about Axl following him to L.A. and I take everything that guy says with a huge grain of salt.

But even if that is true, it still doesn't really change anything. Let's look at the facts we know of and be realistic:

- Izzy and Axl had classes together and liked working together on their own art projects instead of the stuff they were supposed to be working on. And we know that from their former art teacher, a person who has no interest in trying to project a certain image, so I consider her credible.

- They also shared other school classes, like the driver's ed class mentioned by Frey.

- Izzy said he and Axl used to spend a lot of time in the garage of Izzy's mom, making "music". More likely producing awful noise together, but according to Izzy his mom didn't complain and is a saint for letting them do that.

- Izzy said he has very vivid memories of hanging out with Axl all summer when they were 16 or 17 or something and they just drove around all day and did drugs.

- Izzy knew about Axl's fucked up home life.

- Axl said Izzy is one of his oldest friends and one of the people he cares about most in the world.

So considering that they apparently spent a lot of time together, both at school and out of school, and seemed to be pretty close, I think it's safe to say they were friends.

BUT. Izzy also must have known Axl rather well because of that. And therefore he also must have known how exhausting and difficult Axl was/is at times. Hell, Izzy even said that he already thought Axl was crazy the very first time he ever saw him. And that he often acted like a complete lunatic and that he had to keep him out of trouble.

And Izzy was just a kid himself when he left for L.A. A teenage boy with a lot of his own issues and problems to deal with. It's not hard to see how Izzy might not have been thrilled about Axl and all the drama and problems he brings with him following him to L.A. Especially because Axl couldn't really make it in L.A. on his own (as Niven/Izzy also claimed) and Izzy then had to watch out for Axl's ass too.

Again, Izzy was just a slightly troubled kid himself and not the therapist or qualified foster parent or whatever else Axl would have needed. I can't really blame him for feeling conflicted about having to deal with Axl and all of his issues. Many years later Slash seemed to struggle with the same issues and he was an adult by that time.* And ultimately Slash felt too overwhelmed to deal with Axl any longer too.

That is that. But I think it also speaks volumes that Izzy kept forming bands with Axl and very much wanted to keep Axl for himself when Slash tried to steal Axl away from Izzy. And there are a lot of stories of them hanging out during the pre-GNR days in L.A. and having fun and doing stupid stuff. So Izzy must have liked being with Axl on some level (or he at least recognized his talent and wanted to keep him around because of that). And then there's also the fact that Izzy kept checking up on Axl and calling him even when Axl refused to see him (that's more than the other guys can claim). He also sounded quite worried about Axl in some interviews.

And Axl... Axl had some kind of breakdown when Izzy left, crying on the phone for hours and then being really bitter and upset for a long time after. This is not the case anymore thankfully and nowadays Axl seems to love talking about Izzy as long as it's not reunion-related. He often starts telling stories about Izzy without being asked (China Exchange, Eddie Trunk, etc.), and apparently keeps Izzy's guitar in his house. All of which indicates that he's quite attached to Izzy as well.

Bottom line is, I think they do share some kind of bond, a pretty deep one even considering the way they talk about each other and everything they went through together, but their relationship is not exactly an easy one. It wasn't easy when they were kids and it still isn't easy now that they're in their 50s apparently

 

*I'm referring to quotes like this:
"It's just ... it depends how much of that [emotional bag­gage] you want to experience with him. A lot of it is stuff that not everyone in the band necessarily understands. So you try to under­stand, and you try to be a good friend and bandmate as you go through it. But when it negatively affects everything the band is doing, it's really hard to stand by him."

 

13 hours ago, SerenityScorp said:

Quote

According ex-Hollywood Rose bassist Steve Darrow, Izzy was even the band’s stylist: “He had us meet up at his place, then fix up everybody’s hair and makeup before anyone left the room. Axl, too.” 

I like this one

 

I liked that too. I imagine it looked something like this:

 

Izzy (brandishing eye liner and a can of hair spray): Sit your ass down, Axl.

Axl: Ow, watch what you're doing! You're poking my eye out with that thing!

Izzy: Don't be a pussy and look upwards, so I can finish this.... And now close your eyes, I need some more hairspay for this...

Axl (coughing): Oh my god, I can't breathe, I'm suffocating!

Izzy: Stop being such a drama queen and get your hands away from your face, you'll mess up your make-up and I'm not doing it again..."

Etc, etc.

Would have been fun to be a fly on the wall and watch "the band's stylist" at work

 

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Lumikki

[Frey]

1 hour ago, giuls said:

Well, there's the famous photo of Axl as a kid with a black eye, those kind of thing are difficult to hide and it very rarely happen only once so i'm not shocked they knew.

For what it's worth, another explanation apart from them re-writing history is that, sophomore year the kids are aged 15 or 16, depends on the state, and in two or even 1 year relationship can change and maybe Izzy could have been friendly at 15/16 but not so much when he went to LA (didn't Axl said he actually had to find Izzy, he didn't know where he was, right?)

Yeah, that's the only picture though. He looks like a normal, happy kid in most of his other school pictures.

And the teachers back then wouldn't necessarily have associated the occasional bruise with child abuse. "Boys will be boys" and all that. They probably just thought he got into fights a lot. Which was true even, especially in his teenage years.

As for Izzy and Axl, I don't think they're re-writing history at all. I agree with what @Lumikki said above. Real life relationships are complex and not as black and white or idealized as they are on TV or in books. I know I have plenty of people in my life that I love in some way (family members and friends), but at the same time these people also manage to annoy the hell out of me at times or are exhausting for me to deal with. You can't get along perfectly with everyone around you, even if you love them. Plus, Axl's insanely difficult and has shitload of issues and Izzy is a pretty difficult guy in his own right, so it's no surprise they'd clash sometimes. 

 

 

[giuls]

26 minutes ago, Frey said:

Yeah, that's the only picture though. He looks like a normal, happy kid in most of his other school pictures.

And the teachers back then wouldn't necessarily have associated the occasional bruise with child abuse. "Boys will be boys" and all that. They probably just thought he got into fights a lot. Which was true even, especially in his teenage years.

As for Izzy and Axl, I don't think they're re-writing history at all. I agree with what @Lumikki said above. Real life relationships are complex and not as black and white or idealized as they are on TV or in books. I know I have plenty of people in my life that I love in some way (family members and friends), but at the same time these people also manage to annoy the hell out of me at times or are exhausting for me to deal with. You can't get along perfectly with everyone around you, even if you love them. Plus, Axl's insanely difficult and has shitload of issues and Izzy is a pretty difficult guy in his own right, so it's no surprise they'd clash sometimes. 

 

 

Yes, but he said himself Axl's homelife was "difficult", it's an euphemism, he wouldnt have said that if they give out this air of respectability all the time and having knew someone with a "difficult" home life (with CPS involved, thought) when i was a child, it shows even without bruises, people knew, they didn't say shit because it wasn't done at the time.

....That's exactly what i say in my post? As in, other than the hypothesis of re-writing history by @babooshka i said that there could another explenation

1 hour ago, giuls said:

sophomore year the kids are aged 15 or 16, depends on the state, and in two or even 1 year relationship can change and maybe Izzy could have been friendly at 15/16 but not so much when he went to LA (didn't Axl said he actually had to find Izzy, he didn't know where he was, right?)

I don't understand

Edited October 24, 2016 by giuls

[SerenityScorp]

56 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

 

So considering that they apparently spent a lot of time together, both at school and out of school, and seemed to be pretty close, I think it's safe to say they were frien

Izzy (brandishing eye liner and a can of hair spray): Sit your ass down, Axl.

Axl: Ow, watch what you're doing! You're poking my eye out with that thing!

Izzy: Don't be a pussy and look upwards, so I can finish this.... And now close your eyes, I need some more hairspay for this...

Axl (coughing): Oh my god, I can't breathe, I'm suffocating!

Izzy: Stop being such a drama queen and get your hands away from your face, you'll mess up your make-up and I'm not doing it again..."

Etc, etc.

Would have been fun to be a fly on the wall and watch "the band's stylist" at work

 

 

I think We've got new story beside The Adventure of Axl N' Grandpa Angus.

The Daily Life of the Band's Hairstylist *Someone have cool title? I cant think any*

[SerenityScorp]

1 hour ago, Frey said:

I agree. And yes, they're both paranoid fucks.

And it's like Slash said, Izzy's defense mechanism is to bolt. Axl lashes out when threatened, Slash usually becomes passive-aggressive or lies and manipulates his way out of a situation and Izzy just runs away.

I know from experience people like that are insanely exhausting to deal with too. People who are so conflict shy that they avoid any kind of confrontation or attempt to sort things out are frustrating as fuck. They just take off and hope everything will sort itself out in the meantime or will avoid you altogether in the future.

I also think this entire quote that @SerenityScorp posted earlier is hilarious:

"I just don't know if the issues that Izzy and I have with each other will ever be resolved.  In order to make up with someone you have to first be able to speak to them, and to do that you need to first know where the hell they are.  Guys like that can be hard to deal with.  They just don't need you.  He can go on and do whatever it is he's doing just fine without me, and he doesn't seem to realize that sometimes a certain group of individuals, when working together, can create something that's irreplaceable...that can't be done on your own.  He's got the money, and obviously doesn't see what so many people who love him do, and there's nobody in his life who will risk their friendship with him by telling him the truth.  He's always been surrounded by "yes" people, and whenever someone pops up with a dissenting opinion, he can just disappear and replace that person with someone who's more agreeable."

If you didn't know Jimmy Ashhurst was talking about Izzy here, everyone would assume this quote to be about Axl.

I mean that sounds exactly like Axl, the only difference being that Axl doesn't just disappear but usually will cut people out of his life in a more dramatic fashion.

I realize this guy isn't exactly the most reliable source and frankly he comes across like a bit of a moron and weirdly obsessed with Izzy ("I got myself a heroin addiction just so I would know what it's like to be him" Really?!), but still This is just golden.

 

Sure, people bring older stuff up all the time As long as it's for a good reason, I don't think anyone minds.

That OIAM idea is great. Man, that would have been so much better and spared them so much drama. OIAM would be looked at positively today if they'd gone with these lyrics.

I kind of like the Tantrum lyrics too. Yeah, they're raw and rough, but I think they show potential.

As for Axl and the crucifixes, yes, I could see it being about the messianic aspect as well. Axl's got a huge persecution complex and is crazy enough to feel like he can realte to Jesus in some way. Maybe Slash nailed him to a cross in a past life too.

 

 

 

Izzy didnt realise tht He is pretty much same like Axl

[Frey]

3 minutes ago, giuls said:

Yes, but he said himself Axl's homelife was "difficult", it's an euphemism, he wouldnt have said that if they give out this air of respectability all the time and having knew someone with a "difficult" home life (with CPS involved, thought) when i was a child, it shows even without bruises, people knew, they didn't say shit because it wasn't done at the time.

....That's exactly what i say in my post? As in, other than the hypothesis of re-writing history by @babooshka i said that

I don't understand

Yes I know, I was just explaining why I initially assumed that the teachers might not have known. But as we know now, they apparently did know something at least (not that it changed anything).

Yeah, but I don't think their relationship really changed. Like Lumikki mentioned, Izzy knew Axl was crazy right from the start and Axl probably proved that to him time and again during all the times they got into trouble together. And Izzy and Axl apparently were pretty close when they were 17 and then Izzy left when he was 18. Not a lot of time between that. I think to Izzy Axl was probably one of these friends that you hang out with because you're from the same place and share the same interests, but you know that the guy is really messed up and you kind of don't want to deal with that and don't want to get sucked into the madness.

When Izzy left, he probably just wanted to get away from a place he hated (he talked a lot about hating Indiana and Lafayette in the early days of the band), his own family drama, his crazy friend Bill, his future as an aluminium worker...

"I was 18 years old," he told the Lafayette Journal & Carrier in 1993. "I got enough money for gas and I got all my stuff. I’m going to get in a band and maybe check out the beach and get some sun."

But unfortunately (or fortunately for everyone actually) Axl followed him like a little rain cloud, an unshakable bit of Indiana he couldn't get rid of.

"I try to feel the sunshine, you bring the rain", I guess

 

 

 

[SerenityScorp]

So cute 

[giuls]

12 minutes ago, Frey said:

Yeah, but I don't think their relationship really changed. Like Lumikki mentioned, Izzy knew Axl was crazy right from the start and Axl probably proved that to him time and again during all the times they got into trouble together. And Izzy and Axl apparently were pretty close when they were 17 and then Izzy left when he was 18. Not a lot of time between that. I think to Izzy Axl was probably one of these friends that you hang out with because you're from the same place and share the same interests, but you know that the guy is really messed up and you kind of don't want to deal with that and don't want to get sucked into the madness.

When Izzy left, he probably just wanted to get away from a place he hated (he talked a lot about hating Indiana and Lafayette in the early days of the band), his own family drama, his crazy friend Bill, his future as an aluminium worker...

"I was 18 years old," he told the Lafayette Journal & Carrier in 1993. "I got enough money for gas and I got all my stuff. I’m going to get in a band and maybe check out the beach and get some sun."

But unfortunately (or fortunately for everyone actually) Axl followed him like a little rain cloud, an unshakable bit of Indiana he couldn't get rid of.

"I try to feel the sunshine, you bring the rain", I guess

I think that he genuely liked him, i don't really buy it that Axl was the only one who liked skulls and rock n roll, i can buy it if it was in the context of a group but one on one? Relationship can change pretty fast and Izzy's apt to put on a disappereance act and yes, i agree he would have liked to forget about Indiana but him actually "taking back" Axl in LA tells me he wasn't that reclutant about him, they reconnected in LA

(Then, yes, it became complicated, like everything else concerning Axl, but i think it was exacerbated by the fact that it wasn't a club band anymore and there was a lot of money in the mix, plus, Izzy & co in the club days went out a lot bar hopping and Axl didn't join them, Slash said they were excited when Axl did join them because it was so rare so it was easier to deal with it).

[SerenityScorp]

1 hour ago, giuls said:

I think that he genuely liked him, i don't really buy it that Axl was the only one who liked skulls and rock n roll, i can buy it if it was in the context of a group but one on one? Relationship can change pretty fast and Izzy's apt to put on a disappereance act and yes, i agree he would have liked to forget about Indiana but him actually "taking back" Axl in LA tells me he wasn't that reclutant about him, they reconnected in LA

(Then, yes, it became complicated, like everything else concerning Axl, but i think it was exacerbated by the fact that it wasn't a club band anymore and there was a lot of money in the mix, plus, Izzy & co in the club days went out a lot bar hopping and Axl didn't join them, Slash said they were excited when Axl did join them because it was so rare so it was easier to deal with it).

I think I read Slash talk about Axl join Them on His book but I ddnt remember, Anyone can tell Me, what He said about tht?