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29 minutes ago, Frey said:

I've never noticed Axl moaning in RQ and I'm thankful for that, but I will no doubt hear it now next time I listen to RQ :facepalm:

I'm sorry @Frey.....I didn't mean to freak you out :P

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On 23.1.2017 at 8:45 PM, Frey said:
On 22.1.2017 at 10:45 PM, Blackstar said:

As for what Tom Zutaut said, I doubt it has anything to do. The story itself is incompatible with Axl's behavior for a period, when he thought that he could reconcile with his stepfather and be best friends with him; it's explicable if he was trying to find excuses for his stepdad for beating him and being oppressive (that he was doing it for Axl's own good etc), but not for sexually abusing him. There's the possibility of another buried memory, but then he couldn't have talked to Slash about it. There is also something else in the story that seems strange: the place where it supposedly happened (Zutaut said it was in the airport toilets, didn't he?). As far as it's known, Axl's family didn't travel outside Indiana; I think his stepfather was from somewhere else (Ohio?), but it doesn't seem that they went there to visit relatives or relatives were visiting them.

Anyway, regardless of what story Axl had told Slash and how long Slash knew, and even of whether the story was true, what matters is that Axl believed it and he was very sensitive about it, so Slash should have it in mind when he decided to play with MJ.

No, he didn't say airport, he said air force museum, so them not travelling probably doesn't matter.

Here's what Axl said according to Zutuat:

(I'll put in under a spoiler tag because this stuff is pretty disturbing):

  Reveal hidden contents

"I know I've said no... but I wanna do this Rolling Stone interview and expose my stepfather for the monster he is and was. You know, he used to take me to an airforce museum and rape me in the toilets there. In the toilet stalls. You know, my mom wouldn't believe me and I used to get beaten for making up lies. I wanna use Rolling Stone because they've been bugging me to do this interview for so long, but I don't want them to put a white-wash on the story, I want it to come out as ugly and harsh as it is," because it was happening to his sister as well and he said "If even one kid reads this interview and it spares them this pain, I wanna help them."

 

There are a couple of things that get me about what Zutaut said in that documentary:

 

1) This would be a really, really sick thing to make up and lie about (and it's still pretty fucked up for him to just chat about this in a shitty documentary).

2) He's clearly not just confusing his stepfather with his biological father and that whole incident, because Zutaut's telling a completely different story than the one Axl told about his biological father (which was a horrible situation that happened once when Axl was a baby). Yet Zutaut talks about something that happened multiple times ("used to...") and Axl was clearly not a baby anymore if he was able to tell his mom.

3) The details in Zutaut's story. If he were to hypothetically lie and just make up a sick story like that for some fucked up reason, it's unlikely he would come up with specific little details like "air force museum". That's not really something that would just pop into your head if you you were making something up usually.

4) The "My mom wouldn't believe me and I used to get beaten for making up 'lies'" bit. His mom was perfectly aware of her husband beating her children according to Axl, so what was it that she wouldn't believe? If she knew about the physical abuse (and even participated in it, judging by the things Axl has said), then there's not much left that could be disturbing enough for her to react with denial. Not to mention the fact that mothers refusing to believe their children and choosing their husbands/partners over them is something that happens pretty frequently.

5) Zutaut saying it was "happening to his sister as well". We know that Axl's stepdad was sexually abusing his sister, so Zutaut's not wrong about that and seems to know the basic facts at least.

I'm really not sure what to think. It goes against everything we know and Axl has never said anything like that himself. But looking at it this way, I can't rule it out completely. I've been kind of baffled and disturbed by this ever since I watched that BBC documentary and now that I've thought it through I see why.

About that audio interview... I think it's been posted once before in this thread, but it rarely gets brought up, so thanks for posting it again. It's an interesting interview. But I don't necessarily agree that Axl naively saying "my daddy is my best friend now" can be counted as concrete proof of his stepfather not abusing him in that way. I came across cases of rape/sexual abuse victims forgiving/trying to forgive their abusers (or even deluding themselves into thinking they could be a happy family or have a healthy relationship again) more than a couple of times during the course of a former job I had. I will never forget the young woman who basically told me things are fine between her and her father now, because her father was just going through a difficult time when the assaults happened and he promised her he would never do that again :scared: I'll fully admit my perception is probably a bit coloured by these experiences, but yeah, Axl's short-lived attempt at building a relationship with his stepfather again doesn't necessarily indicate all that much to me. 

You know these points are very true and I've had similar thoughts ever since I saw that disturbing documentary.

On the other hand, Zutaut does seem to have a "fondness" for telling shocking/scandalous stories, as we've noted before in this thread so I don't completely trust him as a source.

The only other thing I can think of that supports his claims is Beta saying Axl was sexually abused by his stepfather in one of these weird interviews she gave in the early 2000s. But these interviews are a highly questionable source as well, horrible translations and some people even doubt they're real. And while you'd think Beta (of all people) would know something like this, she does come across as kind of confused and struggling with language barriers a lot of the time in her posts and messages, so who knows.

Assuming Zutaut's claims are true, I can understand why Axl didn't go public with that particular part of his past though. Emotionally speaking, there's a difference (at least to me, if I try to put myself in Axl's place) between something that happened when you were a baby and that you don't even really have conscious memories of, compared to something that happened to you much more recently, and which you have tons of traumatic, relatively fresh and raw memories of. I'd have a lot of trouble talking about the latter too, while I could see myself talking about something that happened when I was a small child much more easily.

It's interesting though that Axl apparently changed his mind about what he was going to tell Rolling Stone. Assuming Zutaut's claims are true again, it sounds like he wanted to go public with something more along the lines of Zutaut's story, but we got a different, slightly less horrifying version in the 1992 interview.

 

On 23.1.2017 at 9:22 PM, giuls said:

I read what @Blackstar wrote about the audio interview she posted, i was kinda surprised about the "he has to look after Slash" part, i must have missed it before because i've always read about Axl's admiration and love for Slash but this protectiveness come kinda as a surprise to me? I don't know, it  made me sad too, it reminded me that Slash's addiction must have taken a toll on Axl but i find it interesting how he only talks about Slash, in Axl's mind Duff didn't need him to keep an eye on him?

We joked how when Axl wanted to buy the famous house with Slash, Slash chickened out because he didn't want Axl to nag him, i guess we were right :lol:

That "look after Slash" part made me smile. I've always thought that Slash's drug use was a giant source of worry and anxiety for Axl (his reactions to it were a bit shitty at times, but his actions always seemed to mostly stem from a place of desperation and fear for Slash's life).

As for Duff, as someone has said, his drinking wasn't that bad yet during that time and Axl probably didn't perceive Duff drinking alcohol to be as dangerous or threatening as Slash's heroin habit, like most people.

You know, I think the house thing might have been in part at least an attempt by Axl to have some control over Slash and his drug use. To "look after Slash",as he puts it, in the most effective manner he could think of. But yeah, Slash wasn't having it.

 

 

 

Edited by Lumikki
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There were a few comments regarding very small children and babies not having real memories of bad experiences, my son was 2 when I got away from my evil ex. His dad tried to tell him I was lying and that he was never abusive and my son punched him in the damn face and told him I may have been a baby but I remember her screaming in fear and you throwing her around you asshole....he did not get this info from me, once we split I did not talk about any of it for years and especially not to my son, I never wanted him to know how bad it was because it was his dad and I couldn't think about it myself, I tried to block it all out until a few years ago I started having nightmares about the worst parts and would wake up breathing hard and feeling like it all had just happened again. Kids are quite capable of remembering things clearly years later that they could not understand at the time.:blink::blink::blink:

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9 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Am I bad For saying I wish it was me?:ph34r:

Not at all, actually that is a wonderful thought...:P

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1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

Let's hope that he also hasn't been informed about the BBC documentary, Mick Wall's book and what Doug Goldstein said, and so on. And if we go back, the 1999-2000 Spin and RS articles contained personal stuff that Axl hadn't shared. Most of the information and speculation about the so called "dark years", other things like the new age stuff etc and the relevant discussion (including this thread) rely on those articles, particularly the RS one, but it must have been very hurtful for Axl to see himself being exposed and analyzed by anonymous "friends" in the media.

On the other hand, these stories, although personal and not meant by Axl to become public (they did though) give some insight on why he acted one or another way and not simply because he's been a "bad person", a "dick" etc. Some of this stuff is indeed very sensitive and disturbing (you're both right about it and I see what you're saying), but I prefer not to overlook it like other people do, some of them not because they respect Axl's privacy, but because they like the "he's just a dick" explanation more.

Exactly. Contrary to (recent) popular belief, this thread has always been to a large extent about serious discussion, right since it started. And I don't intend to change that.

 

25 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

There were a few comments regarding very small children and babies not having real memories of bad experiences, my son was 2 when I got away from my evil ex. His dad tried to tell him I was lying and that he was never abusive and my son punched him in the damn face and told him I may have been a baby but I remember her screaming in fear and you throwing her around you asshole....he did not get this info from me, once we split I did not talk about any of it for years and especially not to my son, I never wanted him to know how bad it was because it was his dad and I couldn't think about it myself, I tried to block it all out until a few years ago I started having nightmares about the worst parts and would wake up breathing hard and feeling like it all had just happened again. Kids are quite capable of remembering things clearly years later that they could not understand at the time.:blink::blink::blink:

Yes, but we're talking about Axl here and Axl didn't have conscious memories of that awful incident that supposedly happened when he was 2. As @Blackstar pointed out, he suffered from nightmares and maybe had some blurry images in his mind, but didn't understand what they were/meant until he was an adult and had some kind of sudden flashback in his car and/or "recovered" these memories in regression therapy (and that in itself is a highely debatable topic, considering that regression therapy of the kind Axl took part in is complete and utter bullshit and all his "therapists" were frauds and charlatans).

 

 

Edited by Frey
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Just now, Frey said:

Exactly. Contrary to (recent) popular belief, this thread has always been to a large extent about serious discussion, right since it started.

 

Yes, but we're talking about Axl here and Axl didn't have conscious memories of that awful incident that supposedly happened when he was 2. As @Blackstar pointed out, he suffered from nightmares and maybe had some blurry images in his mind, but didn't understand what they were/meant until he was an adult and had some kind of sudden flashback in his car and/or "recovered" these memories in regression therapy (and that in itself is a highely debatable topic, considering that regression therapy of the kind Axl took part in is complete and utter bullshit and all his "therapists" were frauds and charlatans).

 

 

I know, my son didn't have conscious memories either, while totally different from what happened with Axl, his memories came back to him when he was about 15, after his dad kidnapped him and he lived with him for a year until I was able to get him back. That triggered his memory and he shocked me with what he actually knew. I was just saying kids can later grow up and remember things they did not understand at the time. It has made him extremely protective of me. 

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15 minutes ago, Padme said:

Agree!!! This is a lot more interesting conversation than all the CD, Richard, Tommy, Fresse bullshit that is going on in the main GN'R section

It's why this is my only home....I can't deal with all that other foolishness.

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5 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Well he's never wished anyone who is alive a happy birthday on Twitter then..

Wonder what possessed him :awesomeface:

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol: i don't know! Really strange! Anyway I'm waiting for slash to wish HB to Axl! :wub:

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5 hours ago, marlingrl03 said:

I like both Izzy and Fortus so I stayed out of that one although I did post a pic of Fortus with the big 3 cause it was an awesome pic and he deserves some love sometimes lol. ?

And yeah the Reddit thing will be very interesting to say the least! I am glad that Steven got some love from Slash, Duff and GNR. That was sweet! 

 

Yes he deserve some love but only sometimes!! But that guy with that stupid statement really pissed me off but it's a troll so I don't care!

Yes I'm so happy too about the Reddit thing! Steven is so sweet and so affectionate with the fans and wanted the reunion since forever so much love for him :wub: 

i just loved duff's post and the fact that called him brother they are still a family and I'm so happy for this!:)? 

Edited by Nightrain92
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7 hours ago, Padme said:

Never fear anything, but it's weird that some people are extremely inlove with CD. The world pretty much ignored it. I'm one who is very disappointed with that album. I find it to be boring, bad lyrics, self pity and way too melodramatic. GN'R is a hard rock band. Where is the big fuck you to everyone and everything? There is nothing like that in CD

It's not so strange, considering that we are in a forum which has been around during most of the NuGnR era. If you think who would join a GnR forum in, say, 2002, 2006, 2008 or 2010, it would be 1) people who got into GnR through NuGnR and liked that band or particular players (Buckethead, Finck etc), 2) people who loved the AFD/UYI band and saw Axl's new band as a reincarnation of it (or hoped that it could be) and 3) people who loved the original band and were still hoping for a reunion.

I'm in the middle about CD. I don't consider it a GnR album either, not because it differs from the classic GnR sound (whatever that was - AFD? Illusions?) or because it isn't a "fuck you" album (musicians change and mature and I prefer Axl to write what he feels than replicate what he wrote when he was 25), but because, as there can't be GnR without Axl, there can't be GnR with just him. As an album, regardless of the name it's released under, I don't think it's shitty. I can see what Axl was artistically aiming at with it, but somehow he didn't get there, mostly due to the production. There's some good songwriting (songs that had potential to be much better than how they ended sounding in the album) and some not so good.

Edited by Blackstar
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23 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It's not so strange, considering that we are in a forum which has been around during most of the NuGnR era. If you think who would join a GnR forum in, say, 2002, 2006, 2008 or 2010, it would be 1) people who got into GnR through NuGnR and liked that band or particular players (Buckethead, Finck etc), 2) people who loved the AFD/UYI band and saw Axl's new band as a reincarnation of it (or hoped that it could be) and 3) people who loved the original band and were still hoping for a reunion.

I'm in the middle about CD. I don't consider it a GnR album either, not because it differs from the classic GnR sound (whatever that was - AFD? Illusions?) or because it isn't a "fuck you" album (musicians change and mature and I prefer Axl to write what he feels than replicate what he wrote when he was 25), but because, as there can't be GnR without Axl, there can't be GnR with just him. As an album, regardless of the name it's released under, I don't think it's shitty. I can see what Axl was artistically aiming at with it, but somehow he didn't get there, mostly due to the production. There's some good songwriting (songs that had potential to be much better than how they ended sounding in the album) and some not so good.

I personally love the album because it was the first full album I heard. I find it very mature/meaningful, not that the others aren't. This one just holds a special place in my heart because it was the first full album I heard. In my head I just picture the original line-up playing it.

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39 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I'm in the middle about CD. I don't consider it a GnR album either, not because it differs from the classic GnR sound (whatever that was - AFD? Illusions?) or because it isn't a "fuck you" album (musicians change and mature and I prefer Axl to write what he feels than replicate what he wrote when he was 25), but because, as there can't be GnR without Axl, there can't be GnR with just him. As an album, regardless of the name it's released under, I don't think it's shitty. I can see what Axl was artistically aiming at with it, but somehow he didn't get there, mostly due to the production. There's some good songwriting (songs that had potential to be much better than how they ended sounding in the album) and some not so good.

That's how I feel.

According to stuff I've been reading from users I don't consider trolls and can actually give good insight, most people consider it shitty because it was overproduced yet incomplete. A contradiction, I know. Too many changes, layers, different musicians...:shrugs:

For what it's worth, I kinda like Better. It's not GNR but I like how it sounds.

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4 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

That's how I feel.

According to stuff I've been reading from users I don't consider trolls and can actually give good insight, most people consider it shitty because it was overproduced yet incomplete. A contradiction, I know. Too many changes, layers, different musicians...:shrugs:

For what it's worth, I kinda like Better. It's not GNR but I like how it sounds.

Be careful... don't want the men bitching in the Tommy thread to start over here....:facepalm:

I like it because I can relate to the lyrics... yes it sounds totally different than the old GNR, so I can understand why some people just aren't into it. While I do like the original lineup best, I still consider it GNR because of Axl. Just my viewpoint, and I do understand why others feel differently. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Nightrain92 said:

Yes I'm so happy too about the Reddit thing! Steven is so sweet and so affectionate with the fans and wanted the reunion since forever so much love for him :wub: 

i just loved duff's post and the fact that called him brother they are still a family and I'm so happy for this!:)? 

Steven so his...his smile and happiness that he shows his fans on stage is so amazing...love him! Whoever got to see him on the tour are so damn lucky! 

And the guys tweets to him were short and sweet but heartwarming. :heart::heart::heart:

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15 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

For what it's worth, I kinda like Better. It's not GNR but I like how it sounds.

Agree with you on this! Not Guns...but I do love some CD songs like Better, TIL and Sorry... and it's nice to hear Slash tweak it a bit to make it more his style. Slash is the man! 

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1 minute ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Be careful... don't want the men bitching in the Tommy thread to start over here....:facepalm:

I like it because I can relate to the lyrics... yes it sounds totally different than the old GNR, so I can understand why some people just aren't into it. While I do like the original lineup best, I still consider it GNR because of Axl. Just my viewpoint, and I do understand why others feel differently. :lol:

I like that he felt that GNR shouldn't put themselves in a box. It would be a shame if every album sounded the same. All the songs on the Whispers album sounded exactly alike....it was a boring album because their father controlled the sound completely. That was what Axl wanted to avoid.

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5 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

Steven so his...his smile and happiness that he shows his fans on stage is so amazing...love him! Whoever got to see him on the tour are so damn lucky! 

And the guys tweets to him were short and sweet but heartwarming. :heart::heart::heart:

Yes fans that had the chance to see him are so lucky!! I wish he will come to Europe next summer!! 

About CD I love better too!  The riff is amazing and I really like the jam at the beginning of the song it's really good! I love CD title track and CITR! TIL not so much but I love slash's solo! So heartfelt for me?

I respect slash a lot as guitarist  and I like a lot of his solo stuff too:):)

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27 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Be careful... don't want the men bitching in the Tommy thread to start over here....:facepalm:

Here? Nah. They won't. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Nightrain92 said:

Yes fans that had the chance to see him are so lucky!! I wish he will come to Europe next summer!! 

About CD I love better too!  The riff is amazing and I really like the jam at the beginning of the song it's really good! I love CD title track and CITR! TIL not so much but I love slash's solo! So heartfelt for me?

I respect slash a lot as guitarist  and I like a lot of his solo stuff too:):)

Yeah Slash's solo on TIL just blows me away...a lot of emotion and powerful! I feel the audience sees it the same way. :)

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7 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

Here? Nah. They won't. 

 

I was actually being sarcastic. I don't think would come here..:P It's like a war zone over there.

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